Which player was held back the most from their potential

[steelyvan]

I often wondered about Meeks playing as much as he did with all the other guys we had. But we were a pretty damned good basketball team there for a few years. Hard to argue with the results. I don’t think Leary was good enough all around to deserve minutes over guys like Graham or Bailey. And Reynolds impact was evident when they burnt his redshirt after that UCLA game.

In short…who was Leary gonna play over? I don’t think it was a style issue, as much as team talent issue for Leary.

not suggesting he should have started or played over others on the team. but did he warrant more minutes or more of a green light to shoot than he got?
Coach could get anyone good looks at the basket. TL shot 46% from 3 in his senior year on a limited number of attempts.

 

[ulrey]

not suggesting he should have started or played over others on the team. but did he warrant more minutes or more of a green light to shoot than he got?
Coach could get anyone good looks at the basket. TL shot 46% from 3 in his senior year on a limited number of attempts.

He was definitely a great shooter.

 

[mortal nuts]

Chuck Franz, AJ Ratliff, Charlie Miller

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

He wasn't big enough? I don't know. All I remember about that game is not having Henderson killed us.

His defensive pressure vs the KU guards.

Yeah, IU was really rolling, PGraham was just coming back and then Hendo went down. IU would have slipped by KU in the rematch had he not been injured and would have set up the greatest F4 of all time. 1-UNC vs 1- Indiana, 1-Kentucky vs 1- Michigan.

 

[MDS3]

Steve Hart or Michael Herman.

 

[Hoosier in SC]

for years I thought Cov was indeed held back during RMK's last season (and CMD let Cov out of the doghouse to play), but looking back now, we had 2 very worthy senior guards (Guyton and M Lewis) on that squad who played a lot of minutes, plus Fife, so freshman Cov was never going to see the court much that season.

Collier was a 7 footer who wanted to play on the perimeter. Charlie Miller was a really nice guy but was not the next coming of Calbert.

My vote goes to Andre Patterson. For the last month of his Senior year, he was a 20/10 guy and an all american. The rest of his career (sans the Duke NYC game where he went ape shit), he was soft and just didn't play with a chip on his shoulder. From what I've read, he really drove RMK nuts because RMK could see the potential, but it just was not translating to results in the games.

Honorable mention: Ivan Renko

Hell yeah, Ivan Renko should have got more PT, deserved the respect! (I was waiting for someone to mention Renko - will never forget!)

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Steve Hart or Michael Herman.

Hart was all athlete and played his best under Coach Knight IMHO. Herman.. Man. I wish he had kept this off court issues clean and stayed at IU. He would have made that very thin backcourt the next season, solid. Both of them would have. It went from what would have been Hart, Herman, Reed & Wilkerson to just Reed & Wilkerson and a offer accepted to Chris Rowles... Then Wilkerson becomes a bonehead and Charlie Miller had to play the off guard position.

 

[TR32]

Chuck Franz, AJ Ratliff, Charlie Miller

Good call on Ratliff. Not a Knight player but talk about a kid who went from huge potential to complete fizzle.

 

[T.M.P.]

If the question is held back from their full potential then the answer is Zeke, not a bunch of guys he could have used differently that didn't really have high ceilings to begin with or guys that didn't develop. Not that he wasn't used effectively in the system, but Isiah didn't get to use his whole kit at IU, especially his handle..

 

[ulrey]

If the question is held back from their full potential then the answer is Zeke, not a bunch of guys he could have used differently that didn't really have high ceilings to begin with or guys that didn't develop. Not that he wasn't used effectively in the system, but Isiah didn't get to use his whole kit at IU, especially his handle..

Dumb.

 

[TominDallas]

I wonder about supporting role players that did great at IU, but if they had played at a smaller school and were the main guy, maybe they would have gone down a different path. Steve Eyl was an AWESOME athlete and great teammate and role player. I am sure he loved his time at IU. But if someone like him had gone to a smaller school, would they have developed more of an all around game. With that athleticism, who knows how far he could have gone. Just a thought.

 

[kkott]

I wonder about supporting role players that did great at IU, but if they had played at a smaller school and were the main guy, maybe they would have gone down a different path. Steve Eyl was an AWESOME athlete and great teammate and role player. I am sure he loved his time at IU. But if someone like him had gone to a smaller school, would they have developed more of an all around game. With that athleticism, who knows how far he could have gone. Just a thought.

You think Eyl, who was a captain on a NC team, and a terrific all-around player and one of the reasons we were so good would've traded that away to score more points at a smaller school? He had a great all-around game, he just wasn't a primary scorer. My guess is he was quite happy with his time here and wouldn't trade more points for a NC ring.

 

[IUNorth]

Hart was all athlete and played his best under Coach Knight IMHO. Herman.. Man. I wish he had kept this off court issues clean and stayed at IU. He would have made that very thin backcourt the next season, solid. Both of them would have. It went from what would have been Hart, Herman, Reed & Wilkerson to just Reed & Wilkerson and a offer accepted to Chris Rowles... Then Wilkerson becomes a bonehead and Charlie Miller had to play the off guard position.

I played against Chris Rowles...he transferred to Robert Morris after IU, the one in Chicago, not Pennsylvania. He actually changed his name too, I believe, while there.

They were very talented that year for an NAIA team. They had him, an NAIA All American point guard, a Vanderbilt transfer, and a Ohio football player transfer.

We split with them. Caught them off guard the first game and beat them. Had their full attention 2nd game, and they destroyed us. Ha ha.

 

[T.M.P.]

I played against Chris Rowles...he transferred to Robert Morris after IU, the one in Chicago, not Pennsylvania.

Had their full attention 2nd game, and they destroyed us. Ha ha.

People don't understand how good D1 players are. Even former bench players. We played against the Ross twins (Notre Dame) and a former Butler player in a rec league. All they did was shoot threes and laugh at us without breaking a sweat. They beat us by 80.

 

[abraxis]

If the question is held back from their full potential then the answer is Zeke, not a bunch of guys he could have used differently that didn't really have high ceilings to begin with or guys that didn't develop. Not that he wasn't used effectively in the system, but Isiah didn't get to use his whole kit at IU, especially his handle..

Isiah Lord Thomas III was the consummate college point guard while at IU. During his tenure here, he had not yet developed the chiseled body we saw in Detroit, the kind of body one can only develop under professional direction 24/7. He was the consummate angelic cherub in candy stripes. The reason he came to IU is because Bob all but charmed the pants off of his mother, Mary Thomas, back in Bob's charming days, before the "ogre bully" bestowal by IU's quasi-fans believing everything the liberal media spouted, whether verified in truth or not. Today, these same spoiled IU fan/Knight haters are called liberal Democrats and still believe the slanted media, choosing not to seek the truth for themselves, believing only what they want to believe. To say that Bob Knight held back Zeke from his full potential is young dumb. It's been stated many times Knight gave Thomas unprecedented free rein, more so than any other player of his.

 

[IUNorth]

People don't understand how good D1 players are. Even former bench players. We played against the Ross twins (Notre Dame) and a former Butler player in a rec league. All they did was shoot threes and laugh at us without breaking a sweat. They beat us by 80.

It can vary...I felt very comfortable when I was in college playing against Notre Dames guards like Jimmy Dillon, Martin Inglesby, etc... And some of our other better local NAIA players were DECIDEDLY better than they were. But then at the same time, I played in a popular 5 on 5 tournament in NW Ohio a few years in a row, and a Bowling Green guard absolutely DESTROYED me/us.

In general though, you're right. I watched some really solid Indy area guys...that were good HS players...try to play with Andre Owens and an Notre Dame guard from the Indy area that had a good career at ND... Chris something? I'm blanking. Anyway...it was laughable how much better those two guys were.

Basically anyone that wasn't good enough to be a standout college player, at any level. The difference is striking between a D1 level player and that person. But there are some head scratchers every now and then.

 

[abraxis]

It can vary...I felt very comfortable when I was in college playing against Notre Dames guards like Jimmy Dillon, Martin Inglesby, etc... And some of our other better local NAIA players were DECIDEDLY better than they were. But then at the same time, I played in a popular 5 on 5 tournament in NW Ohio a few years in a row, and a Bowling Green guard absolutely DESTROYED me/us.

In general though, you're right. I watched some really solid Indy area guys...that were good HS players...try to play with Andre Owens and an Notre Dame guard from the Indy area that had a good career at ND... Chris something? I'm blanking. Anyway...it was laughable how much better those two guys were.

Basically anyone that wasn't good enough to be a standout college player, at any level. The difference is striking between a D1 level player and that person. But there are some head scratchers every now and then.

Player in question-Chris Thomas, Notre Dame’s Indy guard from Pike HS.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Player in question-Chris Thomas, Notre Dame’s Indy guard from Pike HS.

His sister dated Jared Jeffries.

 

[abraxis]

His sister dated Jared Jeffries.

Any word on the street if Jared opened his car door for her as a basic gentleman?

 

[TR32]

Dumb.

agreed. He won a National Championship as the PG. Pretty effective strategy.

Same with MJ and the 84 Olympics.

In fact, Ron Harper recently went off on a fan who argued he was suppressed by the Bulls because his numbers dropped when he went to Chicago. Guy won multiple championships as a starter, how much more effective can you be?

 

[T.M.P.]

In fact, Ron Harper recently went off on a fan who argued he was suppressed by the Bulls because his numbers dropped when he went to Chicago. Guy won multiple championships as a starter, how much more effective can you be?

Yea, good players often sacrifice individual honor to win team championships. So, yes they are held back by system to achieve teams goals like Zeke, and Harper were.. Any other obvious conclusions to be made? Even Jordan's numbers dropped once the Bulls became contenders...

 

[ulrey]

Yea, good players often sacrifice individual honor to win team championships. So, yes they are held back by system to achieve teams goals like Zeke, and Harper were.. Any other obvious conclusions to be made? Even Jordan's numbers dropped once the Bulls became contenders...

Yawn..

 

[Tammany Hall]

Isiah received some impressive individual honors: first team All-American and NCAA tourney most outstanding player.

The individual honor that really matters came from the NBA when he was taken 2nd overall in the draft.

He probably could have done more at IU, that's true of many great players at their college programs, but in the end RMK's program showcased him enough to be the #2 pick. And he went on to be one of the best PGs in bball history. Not bad.

 

[MG80]

Isiah Lord Thomas III was the consummate college point guard while at IU. During his tenure here, he had not yet developed the chiseled body we saw in Detroit, the kind of body one can only develop under professional direction 24/7. He was the consummate angelic cherub in candy stripes. The reason he came to IU is because Bob all but charmed the pants off of his mother, Mary Thomas, back in Bob's charming days, before the "ogre bully" bestowal by IU's quasi-fans believing everything the liberal media spouted, whether verified in truth or not. Today, these same spoiled IU fan/Knight haters are called liberal Democrats and still believe the slanted media, choosing not to seek the truth for themselves, believing only what they want to believe. To say that Bob Knight held back Zeke from his full potential is young dumb. It's been stated many times Knight gave Thomas unprecedented free rein, more so than any other player of his.

What a lame post. You couldn't keep your ignorant political commentary out of the discussion. Talk about being off-topic, and no, Knight did not give Zeek free reign. He was very controlled on the court and played with great precision in his ball-movement offense.

 

[abraxis]

What a lame post. You couldn't keep your ignorant political commentary out of the discussion. Talk about being off-topic, and no, Knight did not give Zeek free rein. He was very controlled on the court and played with great precision in his ball-movement offense.

I like to insert random political commentary of ignorance only to flush out the bristled liberals, triggered in pissiness. Your compliance is always appreciated.

It’s been stated many times in the Annals of IU Basketball History (see chapter, The Bob Knight Glory Years, pages 523-809) that Isiah was given freer reign within the context of his structured play than what would normally be allowed under Bob’s tutelage.

 

[TR32]

Yea, good players often sacrifice individual honor to win team championships. So, yes they are held back by system to achieve teams goals like Zeke, and Harper were.. Any other obvious conclusions to be made? Even Jordan's numbers dropped once the Bulls became contenders...

"held back from their potential"

It's one thing if you sit the bench while the team wins a title, but when you are an All American, National Champ, 2nd pick in the draft, you've achieved your potential.