My rationale is that there are options between do nothing and do everything.
Fluoride is a deadly chemical but we need it in small amounts.
Just because the nazis are afraid of brown people is not a good reason to bring in no brown people.
Wayne Allyn Root
- Thread starter Marvin the Martian
- Start date
My rationale is that there are options between do nothing and do everything.
Fluoride is a deadly chemical but we need it in small amounts.
Just because the nazis are afraid of brown people is not a good reason to bring in no brown people.
It appears you are confusing cause and effect. The anti-immigration AfD party was founded in Germany in 2013. Widespread backlash to immigration of Syrian migrants and the problems they have created has elevated this neo-Nazi group from zero to the # 2 party in Germany in just five years.
This isn't about "brown people". It's about domestic terrorism and crime caused by Syrian migrants.
https://www.dw.com/en/far-right-afd-second-only-to-angela-merkels-weakening-conservatives/a-45587347
And now the Swedish anti-immigration party makes gains similar to the AfD in Germany.......
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29202793
Again, in your original post you brought up Clinton wanting 60,000 refugees. How are these close to comparable.
We brought in huge numbers of Germans and Irish in the 1800s, and the No Nothings formed out of their hatred of people different. Later we had a mass migration of Cubans, Vietnamese, and Mexicans and the modern day No Nothings have returned. Yes, I might go to a Wal Mart and hear people speaking a foreign language. I don't care at all. But there are some of us who seem to panic over that. I have heard others complain about hearing a foreign language spoken. I think they should put on their big boy pants and get used to the fact people are different.
(1) Hillary wanted to bring in 65,000 Syrians per year, not total. Over two terms , we're talking over half a million.
(2) All of those immigrants that you mentioned - Irish, Vietnamese, Mexicans et al - came to America and melted in the Great Melting Pot. The problems that Europeans are having with Syrian refugees is that they do not assimilate. Quoting from the article above: "Most of the immigrants haven't had a chance to become part of Swedish society and of course many of them have been Muslims and many segregate in suburbs around the big cities and build parallel societies," SD leader Jimmie Akesson told the BBC."
German immigrants did exactly that. It has been a huge lie that Germans came in and melted in, and it was a lie about the Irish but more so Germans.
Germans came to America and built German language schools, ran German language newspapers. An entire corps in the army of the Potomac spoke German.
Germans melted in in 1917. WW1 caused it. Irish lived in clumps in Boston and NY. Chinese came over and formed areas we still call "Chinatown". We have never been a melting pot, we are a stew.
Anyone from south central Indiana should know that Germans came over and established their own towns.
Yep, and German was spoken by many. They kept their German celebrations, hence Oktoberfest still here today.
In 1839, Ohio passed a law that public schools teach in German if "sufficient" number of parents requested it.
You continue to compare migrants coming into Europe today with Germans coming to America a century ago. It is a totally bogus analogy.
Here is the problem with that Europe is having with these migrants today:
Germany: Migrants 'may have fuelled violent crime rise'
Image captionMany migrants who arrive in Germany are young single men separated from their families
Migrants may be responsible for most of a recent rise in violent crime in Germany, research commissioned by the government suggests.
The study used data from Lower Saxony, a state where more than 90% of the rise was attributed to young male migrants.
The researchers say the findings are not surprising because many migrants who arrived in Germany in recent years are single males aged 14-30.
This group is most likely to commit crime, irrespective of nationality.
The researchers also said that migrants were twice as likely to be reported to police for alleged violent crimes as German nationals.
The report comes as Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right CDU/CSU prepares for coalition talks with the centre-left SPD.
Both groups were seen as being hurt by their apparently liberal migration policies in September's election.
What figures did the report use?
The report used statistics from Lower Saxony - regarded as an average state - where police saw an increase of 10.4% in reported violent crimes in 2015 and 2016.
Based on figures from the state's interior ministry, which keeps a separate record of alleged crimes by migrants, the report suggested that 92.1% of this increase was attributable to migrants.
Lower Saxony has seen a significant increase in arrivals of migrants in recent years.
However, the researchers also said that a third of all victims of violent crimes by migrants were other migrants.
What conclusions did the report reach?
The researchers said that the best chance of reducing violent crime among migrants was to offer more help with integration through language courses, sport and apprenticeships.
But it said that many male migrants fell into the 14-30 age category, the most likely to commit violent crime.
The lack of women and families among the migrants also meant that those young men were deprived of a "violence-preventing, civilising force", the study said.
Image captionThe report suggested more migrants should be reunited with their families
It also said that migrants with little hope of being giving asylum in Germany were much more likely to commit violent crime than those from war zones like Syria whose asylum was guaranteed.
"Anyone who as a war refugee regards their chances of staying in Germany as good, will endeavour not to jeopardise those prospects by criminal offences," the authors of the study said, quoted by Die Welt newspaper.
Reuters news agency quoted criminology expert and study author Christian Pfeiffer as saying: "The situation is completely different for those who find out as soon as they arrive that they are totally undesirable here. No chance of working, of staying here."
In the Lower Saxony figures, 17% of crimes attributed to migrants were suspected of being committed by North Africans.
This group, which makes up less than 1% of the state's migrant population, has little chance of achieving legal status in Germany.
Why is this a hot topic in Germany?
Image captionAttacks in Cologne have boosted movements like Pegida
Since 2015, more than one million migrants and refugees, many of whom had fled war and abuses in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, have entered Germany in response to Chancellor Merkel's open-door policy.
But the policy has led to tensions at home.
Sex attacks on women on New Year's eve 2015 in Cologne and other German cities, which victims say were carried out by men of North African and Arab appearance, fuelled the rise of groups such as the anti-immigrant Pegida movement.
Mrs Merkel's conservatives suffered their worst poll result in almost 70 years in September's elections as they lost ground to the right-wing nationalist AfD,
Her coalition partners the SPD also had their worst result since 1949.
The migration issue is expected to remain a major headache for both sides as they try to form a new coalition.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42557828
You continue to compare migrants coming into Europe today with Germans coming to America a century ago. It is a totally bogus analogy.
Here is the problem with that Europe is having with these migrants today:
Germany: Migrants 'may have fuelled violent crime rise'
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionMany migrants who arrive in Germany are young single men separated from their families
Migrants may be responsible for most of a recent rise in violent crime in Germany, research commissioned by the government suggests.
The study used data from Lower Saxony, a state where more than 90% of the rise was attributed to young male migrants.
The researchers say the findings are not surprising because many migrants who arrived in Germany in recent years are single males aged 14-30.
This group is most likely to commit crime, irrespective of nationality.
The researchers also said that migrants were twice as likely to be reported to police for alleged violent crimes as German nationals.
The report comes as Chancellor Angela Merkel's centre-right CDU/CSU prepares for coalition talks with the centre-left SPD.
Both groups were seen as being hurt by their apparently liberal migration policies in September's election.
What figures did the report use?
The report used statistics from Lower Saxony - regarded as an average state - where police saw an increase of 10.4% in reported violent crimes in 2015 and 2016.
Based on figures from the state's interior ministry, which keeps a separate record of alleged crimes by migrants, the report suggested that 92.1% of this increase was attributable to migrants.
Lower Saxony has seen a significant increase in arrivals of migrants in recent years.
However, the researchers also said that a third of all victims of violent crimes by migrants were other migrants.
What conclusions did the report reach?
The researchers said that the best chance of reducing violent crime among migrants was to offer more help with integration through language courses, sport and apprenticeships.
But it said that many male migrants fell into the 14-30 age category, the most likely to commit violent crime.
The lack of women and families among the migrants also meant that those young men were deprived of a "violence-preventing, civilising force", the study said.
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionThe report suggested more migrants should be reunited with their families
It also said that migrants with little hope of being giving asylum in Germany were much more likely to commit violent crime than those from war zones like Syria whose asylum was guaranteed.
"Anyone who as a war refugee regards their chances of staying in Germany as good, will endeavour not to jeopardise those prospects by criminal offences," the authors of the study said, quoted by Die Welt newspaper.
Reuters news agency quoted criminology expert and study author Christian Pfeiffer as saying: "The situation is completely different for those who find out as soon as they arrive that they are totally undesirable here. No chance of working, of staying here."
In the Lower Saxony figures, 17% of crimes attributed to migrants were suspected of being committed by North Africans.
This group, which makes up less than 1% of the state's migrant population, has little chance of achieving legal status in Germany.
Why is this a hot topic in Germany?
Image copyrightREUTERS
Image captionAttacks in Cologne have boosted movements like Pegida
Since 2015, more than one million migrants and refugees, many of whom had fled war and abuses in Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria, have entered Germany in response to Chancellor Merkel's open-door policy.
But the policy has led to tensions at home.
Sex attacks on women on New Year's eve 2015 in Cologne and other German cities, which victims say were carried out by men of North African and Arab appearance, fuelled the rise of groups such as the anti-immigrant Pegida movement.
Mrs Merkel's conservatives suffered their worst poll result in almost 70 years in September's elections as they lost ground to the right-wing nationalist AfD,
Her coalition partners the SPD also had their worst result since 1949.
The migration issue is expected to remain a major headache for both sides as they try to form a new coalition.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42557828
Have you noted that the people who do not want Syrians are the same people who believe Mexican-Americans are murderers and rapists?
So instead of comparing Syrians with Germans, now you're comparing Syrians with Mexicans. Let's compare actual Syrian immigrants in Europe with potential (if Hillary was POTUS) Syrian immigrants in America.
They cause crime and they cause terrorism:
https://ihsmarkit.com/research-anal...s-Islamic-States-Foreign-Fighters-Return.html
lol....How about a friendly wager. How soon do you suppose this collapse is coming.
I have lived here for almost 2 decades and your view of Europe and what it's actually like aren't in the same universe.
lol... The Swedish party you were pushing so hard a month or so ago got 10% less of the vote then your articles predicted.
Since you live in Prague, perhaps you should watch the European news more closely. Earlier today the Swedish Prime Minister got voted out and there is no question that the contentious issue was immigration.
https://www.thelocal.se/20180925/swedish-prime-minister-stefan-lofven-confidence-vote
Don't get me wrong, immigration is a big issue in Europe, far bigger than in the US. There is no easy answer, that's for sure. Nobody is for open borders, but they are also determined to try and treat the refugees with as much respect and dignity as possible.
You are presenting the narrative in a far stronger light than is reality. For one, the afD is not the 2nd biggest party, it's not even close. It is far behind the CDU and SPD. They are far closer to being 6th then 2nd.
There is no other far right group in Germany and they got 12% of the vote, so basically 1 in 10 Germans support their view. You are selling it as the up and coming power.
If in 1992 someone told you Ross Perot was the future of the US you would have laughed is off, yet all these parties you continue to highlight haven't come close to getting the 18+% Perot got.
You have pushed the idea that Europe and Germany in particular (having taken in 1m immigrants) are suffering from high crime as a result, yet crime in Germany has hit a 30 year low.
One big problem I see is that American conservatives need to push the idea that Europe is failing, economically, socially and in every way possible. They fear that admitting that something is working invalidates their view.
It is possible for people to do things in different ways and they both be successful. The righties love to point out the tremendous success of the Trump economy with its 4.1% growth last quarter.
Here, in this socialist hell
, we have had 3.5-5% growth every year (with the exception of 2 quarters in 2016) since 2014. The unemployment rate is now about 2.9%.
I get the feeling that conservatives in the US have to point to Europe as a failure or everything they have been saying is BS. This pushes many to exaggerate or flat out lie about the situation.
Even more important (IMO) then the economic growth has been the steady wage growth during this time:
There are plenty of problems and worrisome trends for sure, things could change for the worse anytime. My biggest fear is that Trump's ridiculous trade wars will slow the world economy and kill the growth on both sides of the Atlantic and beyond.
It gets tiresome reading the same old BS over and over. It would be nice if people could look at the information somewhat objectively to see what is and isn't working and learn from it rather then trying to discredit everything that doesn't fit their narrow world view.
It is still a bit shocking to me how little Americans and Europeans (it works both ways) actually understand about each other. As I have said before, I would be lucky to fill two sheets of paper with accurate information about Europe I have read on this forum over 10+ years.
I will now crawl back in my hole over here in socialist hell. I have to figure out how to use up all these vacation days before the end of the year.
Sorry for the ramble.
Don't get me wrong, immigration is a big issue in Europe, far bigger than in the US. There is no easy answer, that's for sure. Nobody is for open borders, but they are also determined to try and treat the refugees with as much respect and dignity as possible.
You are presenting the narrative in a far stronger light than is reality. For one, the afD is not the 2nd biggest party, it's not even close. It is far behind the CDU and SPD. They are far closer to being 6th then 2nd.
There is no other far right group in Germany and they got 12% of the vote, so basically 1 in 10 Germans support their view. You are selling it as the up and coming power.
If in 1992 someone told you Ross Perot was the future of the US you would have laughed is off, yet all these parties you continue to highlight haven't come close to getting the 18+% Perot got.
You have pushed the idea that Europe and Germany in particular (having taken in 1m immigrants) are suffering from high crime as a result, yet crime in Germany has hit a 30 year low.
One big problem I see is that American conservatives need to push the idea that Europe is failing, economically, socially and in every way possible. They fear that admitting that something is working invalidates their view.
It is possible for people to do things in different ways and they both be successful. The righties love to point out the tremendous success of the Trump economy with its 4.1% growth last quarter.
Here, in this socialist hell
I get the feeling that conservatives in the US have to point to Europe as a failure or everything they have been saying is BS. This pushes many to exaggerate or flat out lie about the situation.
Even more important (IMO) then the economic growth has been the steady wage growth during this time:
There are plenty of problems and worrisome trends for sure, things could change for the worse anytime. My biggest fear is that Trump's ridiculous trade wars will slow the world economy and kill the growth on both sides of the Atlantic and beyond.
It gets tiresome reading the same old BS over and over. It would be nice if people could look at the information somewhat objectively to see what is and isn't working and learn from it rather then trying to discredit everything that doesn't fit their narrow world view.
It is still a bit shocking to me how little Americans and Europeans (it works both ways) actually understand about each other. As I have said before, I would be lucky to fill two sheets of paper with accurate information about Europe I have read on this forum over 10+ years.
I will now crawl back in my hole over here in socialist hell. I have to figure out how to use up all these vacation days before the end of the year.
Sorry for the ramble.
It is true, conservatives have thought of Europe as a failure as long as I can recall.
You are flat-out wrong. Here are the numbers, with this graph from the same link I posted above.
You are flat-out wrong. Here are the numbers, with this graph from the same link I posted above.
I am still skeptical "the nazis hate immigration so we must stop them by eliminating immigration" is a great idea. They hate a lot and I sure do not want to see a lot eliminated.
Marvin, that type of hyperbole coming from a steadfast and level-headed poster like you is disappointing.
Nazis are not causing the immigration backlash in Europe. The rapes, murders, arson, assaults and terrorism caused by immigrants from Syria, Afstan and Iraq have created a rapid rise in nationalism within the EU. And yes, nationalism is always a dog whistle for liberals to start screaming about neo-Nazis.
If it is about Syrians causing murders, arsons, and terror; why did Germans just a couple years ago hate Turkish immigrants? You can Google other stories on it, are Turks known for terrorism? Or are they just different.
Have you seen the new Jack Ryan series? A French cop makes a point I wonder if it is true. They basically ay that the Muslims coming in cannot ever be French as being French is a cultural thing. I wonder if that is true for Germany?
And if all that is true, there lies the heart of the problem. Where we may disagree I guess is if we consider that attitude racism.
Honestly, are you into the sauce tonight? Or weed? The Germans have no hate agenda against Turks. I did google it. It is BS.
Jack Ryan series? Come on.
You Google skills are weak. I linked one article, that magazine has others in the series. Below comes from the Wiki:
Turks are "the most prominent ethnic minority group in contemporary Germany",[74] and discrimination and violence against them are common.[75][76] In public discourse and popular jokes, they are often portrayed as "ludicrously different in their food tastes, dress, names, and even in their ability to develop survival techniques".[77]
The number of violent acts by right-wing extremists in Germany increased dramatically between 1990 and 1992.[78] On November 25, 1992, three Turkish residents were killed in a firebombing in Mölln, a town in northern Germany.[79][80] And on May 29, 1993, in an arson attack in Solingen, five members of a Turkish family that had resided in Germany for 23 years were burnt to death.[81] Several neighbours heard someone shout "Heil Hitler!" before dousing the front porch and door with gasoline and setting fire to the home.[82] Most Germans condemned these attacks, and many marched in candlelight processions.[83]
According to Greg Nees, "because Turks are both darker-skinned and Muslim, conservative Germans are largely against granting them citizenship".[84]
The number of violent acts by right-wing extremists in Germany increased dramatically between 1990 and 1992.[78] On November 25, 1992, three Turkish residents were killed in a firebombing in Mölln, a town in northern Germany.[79][80] And on May 29, 1993, in an arson attack in Solingen, five members of a Turkish family that had resided in Germany for 23 years were burnt to death.[81] Several neighbours heard someone shout "Heil Hitler!" before dousing the front porch and door with gasoline and setting fire to the home.[82] Most Germans condemned these attacks, and many marched in candlelight processions.[83]
According to Greg Nees, "because Turks are both darker-skinned and Muslim, conservative Germans are largely against granting them citizenship".[84]
Yep. It’s really hard for me to follow some threads now, since I put about 5 guys on ignore since Kavanaugh has started.
If you find Marvin to be a steadfast and level-headed poster, you might try considering that he didn't suddenly become a crazed, partisan nutter and that the problem lies elsewhere.
