USMNT talk - Are you falling off the Klinnsman bandwagon?

[Oxford Collapse]

Personally, I'm not nearly as critical of coaches on my soccer teams from a tactical perspective as I am my basketball and football coaches. So while I've understood the arguments against Jurgen's continued tenure as US National Team coach, I've never really bought into them.

I totally agree that Klinnsman is selling a bill of goods (proactive soccer that is more technically gifted and consistent with the international game) that he hasn't delivered yet. They looked good against Switzerland yesterday, but they were playing cliche 4-4-2 bunker and counter Bob Bradley style soccer.

But that may be where we're at as a soccer nation. The player pool (at this very moment) can't support a system that wants heavy wing play, tiki taka passing, and clinical finishing.

(Five years from now, that may be a different story - Rubio Rubin, Jordan Morris, Tommy Thompson, Haji Wright, Emerson Hyndman - these are all guys who have a chance to be great, great players.)

So tactically, it's honestly a smarter move to play a limited system (like Bob Bradley's empty bucket,) recognizing your team's limitations.

Yeah, I get that this is a Crean like excuse. It is. But I think the difference here is that Klinnsman doesn't set his player pool. He's limited by what the American developmental system churns out, and that takes a decade to change - not two years.

Am I being too lenient? The soccer media is sharpening the pitchforks for Jurgen, and I don't know that it's all that reasonable.

 

[Moops]

We're 32! We're 32!

US looked like it had much more possession than your Bradley Bunker comment. Unfortunately, I cannot find a box score with possession stats.

Jurgen would be fine if he'd shut his trap.

I have no worries when losing late leads in friendlies in the first year of a cycle. It seems more a function of 6-substituiton friendlies trying players than not having a legitimate game plan. Seems the biggest compalint is not recognizing Bradley should not be slotted in an advanced position.

 

[Oxford Collapse]

I agree with most of your post. Totally. The possession % though was 37%.

That's pretty low.

Granted, Jozy's red card in the 70th changed things, so it absolutely could have been a *lot* better had they not gone down to ten men.

I'm not a bit worried about the friendly losses either. The late leads is a narrative that won't die, but it's not a surprise to give up a lead when you go down a man. This one concerns me less than the others, and you're spot on that the additional substitutes make a big difference.

I'm very encouraged, to be frank, that Shaqiri had so little of an impact in that game yesterday. The defense was better than I expected. And yes, Bradley is far, far better playing back than he is further up the pitch.

I think Klinnsman could take a few tips from Jose Mourinho in protecting a late lead, but so could most clubs. I'm not altogether worried about it, but I do think that his leadership is surprisingly shaky for a guy who got a slightly overmatched USA club down their only legitimate striker out of the group of death.

 

[patrick593]

IMO... as a soccer fan, but admittedly not a super fan

I'd say he's lost some "stars" and came in right at the changing of the guard. Donovan is gone, Dempsey is old... Beasley is old and gone

I think from the national team you have to make sure you're building up the system internally and you can't just go find an all world player to make you good again. That takes a lot of time...

I think he deserves another World Cup to build it all. Re-Evaluate then

 

[Oxford Collapse]

Your changing of the guard comment is a good one.

That 2002 class with Donovan, Beasley, Beckerman, Howard, et al was responsible for major, major growth in the game. The generation that followed gave you Altidore and Bradley... and who else? There's a definite talent gap there.

I think the young talent coming up through the U18s now is good, but they're still years off from contributing on the senior level.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I'm good until the Gold Cup results

After that I may be more critical. Although I don't like how he's used and continues to use Bradley.

 

[PtownHoosier]

I agree with you.

I like Klinnsman a lot and respect what he's trying to accomplish. He's also correct that the best players have to prove themselves in Europe and that they can't truly reach their potential by staying here.

MLS is really a glorified minor league on par with the Japanese league and will remain at that level until they change their ownership structure, or at least until they can compete on salaries with the world class leagues. Klinnsman has seemingly made a lot of enemies by pointing out this truth. I like MLS, but it is what it is.

Tactically, I can't really say what I like or dislike about Jurgen. I probably don't pay close enough attention except near World Cup time to really have an educated opinion.

 

[IUhottie]

No I'm not

I think he knows what he's doing and he's trying to find the new talent whether it be in the US or making someone a US citizen. hahaha

I think hiring him was a very good move.

 

[MoyeSwatsBoozer]

Not at all.

It's no coincidence that the US Soccer Media (remember who pays most of them) started a campaign to get Klinsy fired immediately after he started being critical of MLS and the condition of it's players that come into camp.

Then he had the audacity to call in an NASL player to camp and then eventually play minutes for the USMNT and that's when things really started hitting the fan.

 

[LeConte]

Not yet...

but as you point out, hard to make any good analysis at this point on recent results and play. I watched some of last nights game, and technically, US sucks. Passes were off, couldn't get by guys in 1v1 situations, got beat in 1v1 situations a lot, little awareness of when to pass vs. when to hold, constantly attempting through-balls instead of building something...

But, that was a rag tag team that obviously hasn't played together much. They aren't going to look like a well-oiled machine...but in the parts I saw Switzerland was a better technical team. I just worry that that lack of technical skill isn't an overall problem.

But I like Klinsmann so far. He challenges the players, and if he can get the guys he wants, he has an enjoyable system to watch.

 

[iubigman]

I have no idea whether Bedoya's play was due to himself, Klinsmann, or

some meeting of the minds there, but THAT was what we have not seen. A secondary midfielder playing behind Bradley who demonstrates the will, and maybe more importantly, the ABILITY, to move forward with pace.

Jones can't do that, Beckerman can't do that, and Diskerud doesn't seem to want to play behind Bradley.

Also, the saga of Breck Shea just gets weirder and weirder. Put him at left back and all of sudden he's Ivanovic with the foot of Ericksen.

I still think our best bet going forward is speedy wings who can cross it, but I'm not sure.

I think Klinsmann's biggest problem is that he doesn't play the U.S. Sports media's game, and that will forever sink him.

 

[Stunnedmonkey]

I don't base anything on Friendlies...

except for star players getting injured like David Alaba for Bayern/Austria. Add in Robben/Ribery/Lahm/Thiago/Javi all injured or getting over injuries for Bayern and the #Treble looks like it won't happen, Friendlies are stupid pieces of crap.

And the stupid US media hating on Jurgen is even dumber.

This post was edited on 4/1 1:48 PM by Stunnedmonkey

 

[Moops]

Two words: Julian Green.

From Bayern Munich to Loan to Hamburg to refusing demotion to the 4th division.

Yikes.

Is he our future?

Is this what Klinnsman chose over a farewell World Cup to the most recognized American player who led his team to 3-of-last-4 MLS Cups?

Get To Steppin' ....

 

[iubigman]

Your argument would hold a lot more water if he were playing Green, which

he hasn't.

When he went after Green last summer his form was great. Now that he has regressed, he has hardly played at all for the US.

 

[iubigman]

I will add that I think the fact that there is this much Mainstream USMNT

talk in the truly dead year of the 4 year cycle is a good sign for US soccer.

I also think that as kids stop playing football due to head injury issues, we are going to see some of the better youth athletes heading toward soccer, and that will pay dividends.

 

[Stunnedmonkey]

Green was 3rd Div Bayern last year...

not with the first team, they loaned him to Hamburg. Hamburg hasn't played him.



This post was edited on 4/1 2:50 PM by Stunnedmonkey

 

[Moops]

Yeah, I just read an article where Hamburg changed coaches

shortly after the loan and the new coach apparently has had little use for him. So they tried to demote him to their 4th division and he and his agent refused.

Bottom line is that he isn't playing much.

So much for getting himself familiar for future world cups ... which seems like it should be the rationale when choosing a player over the greatest American player of his generation if not all time.

 

[iubigman]

A back 4 that consists of Miazga, Brooks in the middle, and Yedlin and

Johnson on the wings could really be something in the 2018 WC.

 

[Moops]

Not playing now makes Jurgen's selection to be even more assclownery.

He was not in great form. He showed little in the matches leading up to the world cup.

That he isn't playing now for the US side is very telling to Jurgen's personal agenda.

 

[Stunnedmonkey]

He's only 18...

and Landon was fat and out of shape and basically said so. Couldn't train.

 

[Zizkov]

Not even a little**

nt

 

[OldChargey]

He is exactly what the USA needed and still needs

Even though the player pool might not be talented enough to play the creative soccer we want, we need a coach like him to try to get to that point.

As a nation we need kids growing up trying to play with flair and creativity and less a focus on winning games.

So while his selections and lineups might be odd, he has a plan of how he wants to move USA soccer forward and is sticking to it.

The Gold Cup will be a good barometer of where this new crop is at.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[iubigman]

Except that if he blossoms, he now can't play for Germany, it's like

offering an 8th grader a scholly.