Trump Zelensky today.....

[ribbont]

He seems to list lots of culprit organizations but fails to offer a smoking gun. by force? huh?

92% of Ukrainians voted for independence., are we to believe they did so at gunpoint? Ukraine then flirted with the West, flirted back with Russia, before settling on Western orientation. Did the US have its tentacles in all that? it sure did, with bipartisan support in the US. but so did Russia and probably a half dozen other countries with a vested interest in the outcome. To that I'd say, welcome to earth.

What I find rich, and this isn't directed at you, is the reverse engineering of Ukraine's independence that's taken place in the last 6 weeks. F*cking maddening. The fall of the USSR and the rise of independent states around it have been well documented. Lots of people were paying attention the whole time but now, suddenly, the populists are doing their "homework," starting with the false premise that Ukraine was turned to the west by force. some very bonkers shit right there.

It was disgusting when the left decided to rewrite Levant history to justify 10/7. but at least with that you could squint your eyes and maybe find some nefarious crap the Israelis had done. maybe. but this? it's a full rewrite; it's a brand new script written by dumbasses. Ukrainians chose independence and chose a path leading west. that's the starting point.

Thanks for the response. What is or has been our "vested interest" in Ukraine for the past decade or longer?

And I believe many have questioned our involvement for years, not just 6 weeks. It's just more be prevelant since Trump inauguration and peace deal negotiations.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

He seems to list lots of culprit organizations but fails to offer a smoking gun. by force? huh?

92% of Ukrainians voted for independence., are we to believe they did so at gunpoint? Ukraine then flirted with the West, flirted back with Russia, before settling on Western orientation. Did the US have its tentacles in all that? it sure did, with bipartisan support in the US. but so did Russia and probably a half dozen other countries with a vested interest in the outcome. To that I'd say, welcome to earth.

What I find rich, and this isn't directed at you, is the reverse engineering of Ukraine's independence that's taken place in the last 6 weeks. F*cking maddening. The fall of the USSR and the rise of independent states around it have been well documented. Lots of people were paying attention the whole time but now, suddenly, the populists are doing their "homework," starting with the false premise that Ukraine was turned to the west by force. some very bonkers shit right there.

It was disgusting when the left decided to rewrite Levant history to justify 10/7. but at least with that you could squint your eyes and maybe find some nefarious crap the Israelis had done. maybe. but this? it's a full rewrite; it's a brand new script written by dumbasses. Ukrainians chose independence and chose a path leading west. that's the starting point.

That's a good analogy. The people saying Putin was forced into this are pretty much the right wing equivalent of the lunatics dismissing 10/7 as an act of decolonization.

 

[DANC]

Macgregor knows what he is talking about,
tactically, historically, ideologically. He has the experience, education and commanded real shooters in real war.
..'suddenly turns into a victim'....
You are so wrong-headed on this entire Russia, Russia, Russia mantra . To say every prediction he has made is wrong simply illustrates your ****ing ignorance of what he has warned about time after time. NATO(US) has provoked Russia continually for 60 years and now finds itself painted into a corner. There is no way The West comes out on top in this one. Putin, for better of worse, holds the cards.
Virulent jingoists such as you and your rhetoric have dragged the US to the edge of a very, very dangerous place.

What's he been right about?

"virulent jingoist'? lmao

You and the rest of your Putin apologists and your pleas for appeasement are the ones encouraging Putin to continue and escalate into WWIII.

 

[DANC]

Well, I appreciate the response. I didn't get that sense from him during his recent hour long talk with Tucker. Sachs is a Harvard prof with 40 plus years in international economics who designed Poland's economic recovery after the wall fell.

Both of them, along with many others believe that while Putin is an evil dictator, US policy since the wall fell has backed Russia and Putin into a corner over the past 30+ years. NATO movement towards Russia has made it very defensive. We have broken many promises ourselves.

NATO expanded into those countries at the request of those countries. We didn't move in and demand they be part of NATO, as the Soviet Union did to Eastern Europe with the Warsaw Pact.

The Putin play for Ukraine is following the exact playbook. Either set up a government sympathetic to to Russia or invade and set up that government at the point of a gun.

NATO has never taken over a country that didn't want to be a member of NATO. Russia/Soviet Union has. Many times. Why does this difference not recognized?

Putin is an evil dictator. That's not even a question. He kills his opponenets or throws them into jail. He takes western hostages, including US citizens.

What promises have we broken to them?

 

[DANC]

When Greenwald and Taibbi wrote for Rolling Stone and Mother Jones, the Bolshevik establishment loved them.

Over the past few years, as they reported on the corruption and crimes of the left, this adulation waned.

Wonder why?

I don't see anyone arguing against Greenwald and Taibbi.

Some may disagree. Is that not allowed today in your ideological world?

 

[DANC]

View embedded media

Trump can read the polls.

 

[ribbont]

NATO expanded into those countries at the request of those countries. We didn't move in and demand they be part of NATO, as the Soviet Union did to Eastern Europe with the Warsaw Pact.

The Putin play for Ukraine is following the exact playbook. Either set up a government sympathetic to to Russia or invade and set up that government at the point of a gun.

NATO has never taken over a country that didn't want to be a member of NATO. Russia/Soviet Union has. Many times. Why does this difference not recognized?

Putin is an evil dictator. That's not even a question. He kills his opponenets or throws them into jail. He takes western hostages, including US citizens.

What promises have we broken to them?

I agree. All I would say is to negotiate, one needs to understand the situation from the Russians POV. Their POV may be wrong. But it doesn't really matter, it's their truth (some woke lingo for you).

So, to me, we have a choice. Either treat a nuclear bomb possessing dictator with kid gloves, and find a solution that will likely give parts of Ukraine to Russia, some mineral rights to us and no possibility of Ukraine in NATO. Or we keep going like we are now, spending billions until that last fighter dies.

Do you see another possible outcome?

 

[Bub_rub]

Quite a shift.

I wonder what public polling would show for a new Ukraine tax in order to fund “doing more”.

We’ve spent $60 Billion since the war began. Our total federal spending for 2024 alone was $6.8 Trillion.

Any president but this one sells that to the American without issue.

Better yet, we could earmark a small fraction of eventual DOGE savings to keep Eastern Europe free. lol

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

We’ve spent $60 Billion since the war began. Our total federal spending for 2024 alone was $6.8 Trillion.

Any president but this one sells that to the American without issue.

Better yet, we could earmark a small fraction of eventual DOGE savings to keep Eastern Europe free. lol

83 billion spent

140 billion committed

180 billion allocated

Get your facts straight.

And President’s shouldn’t be “selling” any unnecessary spending. We’re broke.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

83 billion spent

140 billion committed

180 billion allocated

Get your facts straight.

And President’s shouldn’t be “selling” any unnecessary spending. We’re broke.

yet paying for trump's golf trips and paying the DOGE to fire people that will be rehired.

I got an idea. trump can quit golfing and DOGE can fire themselves. money saved.

 

[Bub_rub]

83 billion spent

140 billion committed

180 billion allocated

Get your facts straight.

And President’s shouldn’t be “selling” any unnecessary spending. We’re broke.

We’ll be poorer when China and Russia gobble up their fee market neighbors. Interest rates will suck when the dollar crumbles because we’re not keeping the world economic system we created and benefit most from secure. We’ll be poorer when we aren’t such a safe bet for foreign investment or debt purchases.

Just love that the populists found this convenient moment in time to come to Jesus and have also convinced themselves being secretive, vindictive, and douchey is the way to go about it. Unlike all these new citizen populists that have popped up amongst us, Trump’s guys damn well know the consequences. But they envision some kind of Fortress America where Pa can again support a family on coal miner wages and Ma can homeschool the kids with a set of text books curated by religious fanatics.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

We’ll be poorer when China and Russia gobble up their fee market neighbors. Interest rates will suck when the dollar crumbles because we’re not keeping the world economic system we created and benefit most from secure. We’ll be poorer when we aren’t such a safe bet for foreign investment or debt purchases.

Conjecture. Doomcasting. Ironic however, that you say this in the middle of a campaign to blow the Houthi’s to smithereens and restart traffic in the Red Sea. How’s that for maintaining security?

You see what you want to see. Not worth my time.

Just love that the populists found this convenient moment in time to come to Jesus and have also convinced themselves being secretive, vindictive, and douchey is the way to go about it. Unlike all these new citizen populists that have popped up amongst us, Trump’s guys damn well know the consequences. But they envision some kind of Fortress America where Pa can again support a family on coal miner wages and Ma can homeschool the kids with a set of text books curated by religious fanatics.

If you think Trump is to some extent selling a bill of goods to the working class (however that is defined now days) I don’t necessarily disagree. But he is bringing prices down rapidly even if their plant job with a gold watch and a pension isn’t coming back.

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

83 billion spent

140 billion committed

180 billion allocated

Get your facts straight.

And President’s shouldn’t be “selling” any unnecessary spending. We’re broke.

And all of the above $Borrowed.

 

[DANC]

I agree. All I would say is to negotiate, one needs to understand the situation from the Russians POV. Their POV may be wrong. But it doesn't really matter, it's their truth (some woke lingo for you).

So, to me, we have a choice. Either treat a nuclear bomb possessing dictator with kid gloves, and find a solution that will likely give parts of Ukraine to Russia, some mineral rights to us and no possibility of Ukraine in NATO. Or we keep going like we are now, spending billions until that last fighter dies.

Do you see another possible outcome?

I've already said we should take Ukraine's acceptance into NATO off the table.

After that, we assure Putin that neither we nor Ukraine will invade NATO or put long, medium, and short range missiles in Ukraine. We - NATO - won't station troops in Ukraine. We sign treaties saying such.

All Russia has to do is withdraw from Ukraine. We will guarantee Russian speaking Ukrainians won't be harrassed. We GUARANTEE all this.

Isn't this what Russia wants?

 

[IUINSB]

I've already said we should take Ukraine's acceptance into NATO off the table.

After that, we assure Putin that neither we nor Ukraine will invade NATO or put long, medium, and short range missiles in Ukraine. We - NATO - won't station troops in Ukraine. We sign treaties saying such.

All Russia has to do is withdraw from Ukraine. We will guarantee Russian speaking Ukrainians won't be harrassed. We GUARANTEE all this.

Isn't this what Russia wants?

Dan, you and I know what Putin wants. Ukraine.

 

[DANC]

Dan, you and I know what Putin wants. Ukraine.

Yes, we do.

 

[ribbont]

I've already said we should take Ukraine's acceptance into NATO off the table.

After that, we assure Putin that neither we nor Ukraine will invade NATO or put long, medium, and short range missiles in Ukraine. We - NATO - won't station troops in Ukraine. We sign treaties saying such.

All Russia has to do is withdraw from Ukraine. We will guarantee Russian speaking Ukrainians won't be harrassed. We GUARANTEE all this.

Isn't this what Russia wants?

I don't know what Putin/Russia wants. Nobody does except Trump. I believe they don't Ukraine in NATO as Putin has stated just like he didn't want eastward expansion of NATO. NATO didn’t have to accept the requests of nations, but it did.

I beleive Russia won't walk away without any territory. Puton doesn't start a war and walk away with just the promise of no Ukraine in NATO, maybe. I say maybe as I am not sure how we GUARANTEE they won't be.

And treaties probably don't mean much after we abandoned the ABM treaty in 2002.

So, we finally have a President who is talking and negotiating instead trying to talk tough. I believe Trump is playing the long game. Pull back the Russia tough talk, get a peace deal, work towards a Russia relationship that can be less confrontational after Putin and after Trump.

Time will tell.

 

[DANC]

I don't know what Putin/Russia wants. Nobody does except Trump. I believe they don't Ukraine in NATO as Putin has stated just like he didn't want eastward expansion of NATO. NATO didn’t have to accept the requests of nations, but it did.

I beleive Russia won't walk away without any territory. Puton doesn't start a war and walk away with just the promise of no Ukraine in NATO, maybe. I say maybe as I am not sure how we GUARANTEE they won't be.

And treaties probably don't mean much after we abandoned the ABM treaty in 2002.

So, we finally have a President who is talking and negotiating instead trying to talk tough. I believe Trump is playing the long game. Pull back the Russia tough talk, get a peace deal, work towards a Russia relationship that can be less confrontational after Putin and after Trump.

Time will tell.

OK, let's say Trump makes a deal. Do you think that will last after Trump is out of office?

 

[Bub_rub]

I don't know what Putin/Russia wants. Nobody does except Trump. I believe they don't Ukraine in NATO as Putin has stated just like he didn't want eastward expansion of NATO. NATO didn’t have to accept the requests of nations, but it did.

I beleive Russia won't walk away without any territory. Puton doesn't start a war and walk away with just the promise of no Ukraine in NATO, maybe. I say maybe as I am not sure how we GUARANTEE they won't be.

And treaties probably don't mean much after we abandoned the ABM treaty in 2002.

So, we finally have a President who is talking and negotiating instead trying to talk tough. I believe Trump is playing the long game. Pull back the Russia tough talk, get a peace deal, work towards a Russia relationship that can be less confrontational after Putin and after Trump.

Time will tell.

Putin wants sway over Ukraine.

So Russia gets territory and gets to decide Ukraine’s security agreements? With deals like that to be had, why stop at Ukraine? Moldova has a lot of Russian speakers…

Does the long game include wrecking NATO? In that case, the Baltics and Poland are just sitting there…

 

[iuwclurker]

I've already said we should take Ukraine's acceptance into NATO off the table.

After that, we assure Putin that neither we nor Ukraine will invade NATO or put long, medium, and short range missiles in Ukraine. We - NATO - won't station troops in Ukraine. We sign treaties saying such.

All Russia has to do is withdraw from Ukraine. We will guarantee Russian speaking Ukrainians won't be harrassed. We GUARANTEE all this.

Isn't this what Russia wants?

What’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

We can stipulate that Ukraine won’t be part of NATO. And we also stipulate that if Russian military sets 1 foot into Ukraine, it’s automatically a part of NATO and he just declared war on everybody. No probs.

 

[ribbont]

OK, let's say Trump makes a deal. Do you think that will last after Trump is out of office?

How should I know? If I could predict the future with multiple variables, I'd be Elon!

What I know is Putin is a horrible person, but a cunning leader. I beleive in keep your friends close and enemies closer.

Might be a good time to befriend Putin/Russia in hopes of the next leaders to build something.

I've hated USSR/Russia for almost 50 yrs. I look back and wonder, what did Russia do to make my life worse. I can't find anything. Now is that because my leaders have kept Russia at bay, or because Russia has not been aggressive. Not sure of the answer.

But I am willing to see us take a new path. I did not choose to serve. A regret, but I just wasn't raised with that mindset. And watching from a position of ignorance for so many years has led me to learn more. And I've learned that my country is not so, ummm, perfect.

 

[iuwclurker]

I look back and wonder, what did Russia do to make my life worse.

Lots of nuclear testing that irradiated the atmosphere which affects all of us. Of course the USA did too, but that’s an answer to your question.

 

[ribbont]

Putin wants sway over Ukraine.

So Russia gets territory and gets to decide Ukraine’s security agreements? With deals like that to be had, why stop at Ukraine? Moldova has a lot of Russian speakers…

Does the long game include wrecking NATO? In that case, the Baltics and Poland are just sitting there…

Putin hasn't said anything to that affect from what I've read. If you have something different, please link.

And to some extent, Russia does get to decide. It's a negotiation. Again, I will ask, how far do you want to go? Are you willing to use US troops? Want to go nuclear? We can't trust Putin, right? So regime change is really the only answer.

What do we say if Russia wants the Donbas region? No, let's keep fighting. For what? I asked you without an answer, what is our vested interest? What does Ukraine provide the US that we would want to provide millions or billions more, and possibly US troops?

 

[ribbont]

Lots of nuclear testing that irradiated the atmosphere which affects all of us. Of course the USA did too, but that’s an answer to your question.

Lol. You sound like your under 30.

 

[iuwclurker]

Lol. You sound like your under 30.

I’ll take it!

 

[iuwclurker]

Putin hasn't said anything to that affect from what I've read. If you have something different, please link.

And to some extent, Russia does get to decide. It's a negotiation. Again, I will ask, how far do you want to go? Are you willing to use US troops? Want to go nuclear? We can't trust Putin, right? So regime change is really the only answer.

What do we say if Russia wants the Donbas region? No, let's keep fighting. For what? I asked you without an answer, what is our vested interest? What does Ukraine provide the US that we would want to provide millions or billions more, and possibly US troops?

We on the other hand don’t get to decide. Ukraine does, on their side, and they don’t trust Putin any further than they can vomit him.

As it stands, Putin’s making basically absurd demands and Ukraine isn’t falling for it.

Trump doesn’t really have any skin in the game. He wants the glory but is coming to realize these bastards don’t mind fighting to the death.

 

[ribbont]

I’ll take it!

Enjoy it! But I have tried to live by Covey habit #5: Seek to understand, then be understood. We need to understand where Putin is coming from in order to negotiate a deal. I think a great dealmaker knows that. We'll see if Trump does. Biden didn’t even try, thus thousands or millions dead.

 

[ribbont]

We on the other hand don’t get to decide. Ukraine does, on their side, and they don’t trust Putin any further than they can vomit him.

As it stands, Putin’s making basically absurd demands and Ukraine isn’t falling for it.

Trump doesn’t really have any skin in the game. He wants the glory but is coming to realize these bastards don’t mind fighting to the death.

We are Ukraine. We withdraw support, they are toast. That's the point if having no cards. Putin's demand are absurd. But shoot for the moon and take the stars. Negotiating 101.

So I will ask again. What is our vested interest in Ukraine? Are you willing to commit troops? Do you want to go nuclear? If Putin stands firm on his absurd demands, how far are you willing to go with thus untrustworthy adversary?

 

[iuwclurker]

We are Ukraine. We withdraw support, they are toast. That's the point if having no cards. Putin's demand are absurd. But shoot for the moon and take the stars. Negotiating 101.

So I will ask again. What is our vested interest in Ukraine? Are you willing to commit troops? Do you want to go nuclear? If Putin stands firm on his absurd demands, how far are you willing to go with thus untrustworthy adversary?

I haven’t really followed it closely enough to give credible answers. For example, I didn’t realize that there was that loophole about Europeans paying Russia for gas and oil that Trump seems to have closed recently.

I think Europe needs to up their game. That means more than just military support. It means totally ending energy imports from Russia. Bite the bullet and find different suppliers.

I don’t have any problem with the United States continuing to supply Intel capabilities and appropriate defensive weaponry. The cost benefit is definitely in our favor in my opinion. I don’t think Putin can fight an endless war. Especially if we really amp up the sanctions. I think Putin is bluffing like crazy right now. He’s still hoping for a two-day end to this military campaign. He wanted a two-day end on day one and he’s still hoping for that now. Ukraine is a tough fighter and Putin bit off more than he can chew. Call his bluff.

And i’m not afraid of Putin using nukes. He’s just not gonna do it. He’s got way too much to lose. Who knows if his nukes even work.

Our vested interest is stability in the free world. We benefit from that massively and we have since the 50s. People who don’t know that simply don’t realize how much we benefit from it. The easiest way to realize that’s true is to simply look at which economy is the most abundant. There’s a reason for that. It’s not just because we work our butts off. We dominate the financial market and that’s a world market. For example. The real risk that Trump’s isolationism runs is lowering the world economy, which will affect us the most because we have the most to lose.

 

[ribbont]

I haven’t really followed it closely enough to give credible answers. For example, I didn’t realize that there was that loophole about Europeans paying Russia for gas and oil that Trump seems to have closed recently.

I think Europe needs to up their game. That means more than just military support. It means totally ending energy imports from Russia. Bite the bullet and find different suppliers.

I don’t have any problem with the United States continuing to supply Intel capabilities and appropriate defensive weaponry. The cost benefit is definitely in our favor in my opinion. I don’t think Putin can fight an endless war. Especially if we really amp up the sanctions. I think Putin is bluffing like crazy right now. He’s still hoping for a two-day end to this military campaign. He wanted a two-day end on day one and he’s still hoping for that now. Ukraine is a tough fighter and Putin bit off more than he can chew. Call his bluff.

And i’m not afraid of Putin using nukes. He’s just not gonna do it. He’s got way too much to lose. Who knows if his nukes even work.

Our vested interest is stability in the free world. We benefit from that massively and we have since the 50s. People who don’t know that simply don’t realize how much we benefit from it. The easiest way to realize that’s true is to simply look at which economy is the most abundant. There’s a reason for that. It’s not just because we work our butts off. We dominate the financial market and that’s a world market. For example. The real risk that Trump’s isolationism runs is lowering the world economy, which will affect us the most because we have the most to lose.

Well, I guess we just disagree.

1) why do you say the "cost/benefit is our favor" to continue to supply weapons to Ukraine? Do you think the US just has and endless supply of weapons to give Ukraine? And Israel? And if Taiwan becomes a military conflict, do we have enough? Forgot about the Houthis? Do we even want to discuss the African conflicts and our real vested interest in the Congo? We kinda need copper and cobalt. Ukraine seems pretty low on the list.

2) Do you trust Putin? Many don’t with a peace deal. But you are going to believe he won't use nukes? He's an evil dictator. Haven't you heard. No doubt he would use nukes. Plus Trump is a dictator too in the mold of Hitler, so you know he would absolutely use nukes. Hell, he's rounding up innocent TDA peace seekers and sending them to El Salvadorian death camps!

3) Stability? Seriously? We've been in the Korean war, Vietnam, Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Ukraine and Gaza. I am sure I missed a few wars and conflicts. Oh, and the all wars we didn't participate but likely influenced "in the name of democracy". Yes, we benefitted for sure from all the death and destruction.

But I would argue that we benefitted financially more from our innovative freedom, particularly in tech and science versus some illusion of international stability.

And belief that Ukraine contributes to stability is an illusion as well.

I could go on but going to bed. Appreciate the dialogue without personal attacks.

 

[iuwclurker]

Well, I guess we just disagree.

1) why do you say the "cost/benefit is our favor" to continue to supply weapons to Ukraine? Do you think the US just has and endless supply of weapons to give Ukraine? And Israel? And if Taiwan becomes a military conflict, do we have enough? Forgot about the Houthis? Do we even want to discuss the African conflicts and our real vested interest in the Congo? We kinda need copper and cobalt. Ukraine seems pretty low on the list.

2) Do you trust Putin? Many don’t with a peace deal. But you are going to believe he won't use nukes? He's an evil dictator. Haven't you heard. No doubt he would use nukes. Plus Trump is a dictator too in the mold of Hitler, so you know he would absolutely use nukes. Hell, he's rounding up innocent TDA peace seekers and sending them to El Salvadorian death camps!

3) Stability? Seriously? We've been in the Korean war, Vietnam, Gulf, Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Ukraine and Gaza. I am sure I missed a few wars and conflicts. Oh, and the all wars we didn't participate but likely influenced "in the name of democracy". Yes, we benefitted for sure from all the death and destruction.

But I would argue that we benefitted financially more from our innovative freedom, particularly in tech and science versus some illusion of international stability.

And belief that Ukraine contributes to stability is an illusion as well.

I could go on but going to bed. Appreciate the dialogue without personal attacks.

I understand your skepticism. Not ill-founded.

The military industrial complex has been a major part of our economy since Eisenhower and before. It’s kind of a cynical economy, but so far has worked and the simple truth is this planet is not all that civilized. Sure it would be wonderful if we could all coexist in harmony, but I think that’s a ways off if ever.

So far, Putin hasn’t used any nukes as far as I know so it doesn’t seem like he’s going to. I think he personally has too much to lose as well as his country. He and Trump both have megalomaniac ambitions, and a nuclear wasteland doesn’t fit with their legacy plans. I think they’re both more rational than irrational. It’s just that his rationality includes statistical destruction of humans. (Stalin: one death is a tragedy, 1 million deaths is a statistic.)

In the 40s and 50s our military economy was massively important to our well-being. Obviously now it’s not nearly so important as you mentioned but it’s still a non-trivial aspect of our economy. I’m not advocating this, I’m simply being somewhat objective about it. I’m a pacifist by nature personally. I agree with your general sentiment. I just don’t agree with giving Putin an inch. I can’t get behind tolerating such maniacal and inhuman destruction. And it doesn’t matter to me who might’ve egged him on if anyone in the first place. He’s the one pulling the trigger.

The importance of Ukraine is not in terms of mineral wealth, and such has might be the case with Africa and other places. Ukraine is a an important buffer for Europe, and Europe is a hugely important aspect of our democratic free world. As I said before, we benefit from a stably improving world economy, more than anyone else. Europe is a huge player in that. We need to make sure that Putin stays in his lane.

 

[Spartans9312]

1st step Trump proposed was an unconditional ceasefire

 

[Spartans9312]

 

[Spartans9312]

Trump reveals he has been speaking to Putin for weeks as he hails energy and infrastructure ceasefire

EXCLUSIVE — "You know, I've spoken to Putin over — this isn't just a call that began it. We've had other calls," Trump admitted.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Spartans9312]

 

[Mas-sa-suta]

We are Ukraine. We withdraw support, they are toast. That's the point if having no cards. Putin's demand are absurd. But shoot for the moon and take the stars. Negotiating 101.

So I will ask again. What is our vested interest in Ukraine? Are you willing to commit troops? E4e Do you want to go nuclear? If Putin stands firm on his absurd demands, how far are you willing to go with thus untrustworthy adversary?

The only vested interest is equity in 80 years of rigid dogma against Russia.
Trump sees Ukraine as a failed asset bleeding cash that needs to be fixed.
Trump seeks a pragmatic solution, first to stop the killing and infrastructure damage.
Putin understands the existential threat to Russia from the US military-industrial-surveillance clique holding on to as much power as they can. When the Alternative Right succeeds in neutering the jewish neocons infesting American government, progress will be possible.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

The only vested interest is equity in 80 years of rigid dogma against Russia.
Trump sees Ukraine as a failed asset bleeding cash that needs to be fixed.
Trump seeks a pragmatic solution, first to stop the killing and infrastructure damage.
Putin understands the existential threat to Russia from the US military-industrial-surveillance clique holding on to as much power as they can. When the Alternative Right succeeds in neutering the jewish neocons infesting American government, progress will be possible.

"Jewish neocons?!?" When did you become the racist rooskie that you are these days? You are one sad SOB.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

When the Alternative Right succeeds in neutering the jewish neocons infesting American government, progress will be possible.

Just highlighting Mas' true belief for any not yet convinced

 

[Marvin the Martian]

"Jewish neocons?!?" When did you become the racist rooskie that you are these days? You are one sad SOB.

I wonder if Jesus is Jewish in his Bible? The passage where Jesus says he did not come to destroy "the Law" must be omitted from his copy.

 

[IUINSB]

"Jewish neocons?!?" When did you become the racist rooskie that you are these days? You are one sad SOB.

Where in the hell have you been?