This is a recording: Wanted - GUARDS

[aajohn2000]

Led by Xavier’s salty 3-15 performance and 1-6 from 3, our guards were yet again the reason for our loss. I won’t mention another ghost performance by Kopp. He truly just brings zero to the team. 15 league games and the starter Kopp is yet to make more than 2 FG’s in a single game.

Back to our woeful guards last night. Xavier / Bates / Galloway / Lander / Stewart shot a combined 9-36.
Take your pic on POTG. Was it our starting PG Xavier with a stat line of 3-16 FG’s, 1-6 threes, and 5 turnovers and not a single free throw attempt? Or, was it our highly touted 5 star reserve guard Tamar Bates? TB was 0-5 FG’s, O-2 threes and yep, not a single free throw attempt. So our current senior PG along with our “future” combined for 3-21 FG’s, 1-8 from three and my favorite, zero free throws.

This has been the case ongoing for years and the bottom line is our guards as a collective group are terrible. They are the reason we can’t beat anyone. They are the reason we can’t close our games. They are the reason we will miss the tourney for a 6th consecutive year. Outside of Romeo’s one season, we haven’t had a difference maker at the guard spot since Yogi. This remains the biggest problem we have and it’s been this way for 6 years. Until it’s fixed, what we have seen the last several years is what we should expect to see.

 

[BigMobe]

Led by Xavier’s salty 3-15 performance and 1-6 from 3, our guards were yet again the reason for our loss. I won’t mention another ghost performance by Kopp. He truly just brings zero to the team. 15 league games and the starter Kopp is yet to make more than 2 FG’s in a single game.

Back to our woeful guards last night. Xavier / Bates / Galloway / Lander / Stewart shot a combined 9-36.
Take your pic on POTG. Was it our starting PG Xavier with a stat line of 3-16 FG’s, 1-6 threes, and 5 turnovers and not a single free throw attempt? Or, was it our highly touted 5 star reserve guard Tamar Bates? TB was 0-5 FG’s, O-2 threes and yep, not a single free throw attempt. So our current senior PG along with our “future” combined for 3-21 FG’s, 1-8 from three and my favorite, zero free throws.

This has been the case ongoing for years and the bottom line is our guards as a collective group are terrible. They are the reason we can’t beat anyone. They are the reason we can’t close our games. They are the reason we will miss the tourney for a 6th consecutive year. Outside of Romeo’s one season, we haven’t had a difference maker at the guard spot since Yogi. This remains the biggest problem we have and it’s been this way for 6 years. Until it’s fixed, what we have seen the last several years is what we should expect to see.

Pretty sobering facts laid out there

 

[ButHerEmails]

Led by Xavier’s salty 3-15 performance and 1-6 from 3, our guards were yet again the reason for our loss. I won’t mention another ghost performance by Kopp. He truly just brings zero to the team. 15 league games and the starter Kopp is yet to make more than 2 FG’s in a single game.

Back to our woeful guards last night. Xavier / Bates / Galloway / Lander / Stewart shot a combined 9-36.
Take your pic on POTG. Was it our starting PG Xavier with a stat line of 3-16 FG’s, 1-6 threes, and 5 turnovers and not a single free throw attempt? Or, was it our highly touted 5 star reserve guard Tamar Bates? TB was 0-5 FG’s, O-2 threes and yep, not a single free throw attempt. So our current senior PG along with our “future” combined for 3-21 FG’s, 1-8 from three and my favorite, zero free throws.

This has been the case ongoing for years and the bottom line is our guards as a collective group are terrible. They are the reason we can’t beat anyone. They are the reason we can’t close our games. They are the reason we will miss the tourney for a 6th consecutive year. Outside of Romeo’s one season, we haven’t had a difference maker at the guard spot since Yogi. This remains the biggest problem we have and it’s been this way for 6 years. Until it’s fixed, what we have seen the last several years is what we should expect to see.

People are always wondering why Kopp starts. I’m wondering that too. You can argue that Kopp earns it in practice but then Leal would also be starting with how everyone talks about his work ethic. The supposed hardest worker on the team can’t get 10 minutes/game with a team on a four game skid? Shit. What message does that send to the other players and to recruits?

 

[jimmygoiu]

speaking of Kopp, Indy's own Jake Laravia had 19 and 10 tues vs Duke.

 

[Crossblock]

We are all concentrating on the poor shooting of our guards and rightfully so. However, what struck Me in the Box Score was the amount of scoring from Wisconsin's guards. Davis 30, Davison 21. Hepburn 8. 59 Points from their Guards. So not only can't they shoot, They can't play Defense either.

 

[kkott]

We are all concentrating on the poor shooting of our guards and rightfully so. However, what struck Me in the Box Score was the amount of scoring from Wisconsin's guards. Davis 30, Davison 21. Hepburn 8. 59 Points from their Guards. So not only can't they shoot, They can't play Defense either.

Davis is another level compared to everyone else on the floor. Much like Dosomnu (sp?) last year for IL, and I think Davis is even better. Cat quick and great body control. He's a load. Would have loved to have RP last night. Davison had a pedestrian game, EXCEPT for the FT line. credit to him: he found a way to be effective. The other kid I think would have had 2-4 pts, except that Lander guarded him for awhile.

 

[The Vid]

People are always wondering why Kopp starts. I’m wondering that too. You can argue that Kopp earns it in practice but then Leal would also be starting with how everyone talks about his work ethic. The supposed hardest worker on the team can’t get 10 minutes/game with a team on a four game skid? Shit. What message does that send to the other players and to recruits?

Leal is better than Kopp. Sucks he has to watch him play.

 

[kkott]

Leal is better than Kopp. Sucks he has to watch him play.

and you determined this how? Kopp to me was a neutral last night. Leal to me regularly shows he's not ready to play at this level and you want to stick him in against the best group of backcourt players we've faced? Neutral is better than a negative and as great as their guards were last night, I never found myself thinking: "why the H*** isn't Leal in the game ?". I could accept saying it's better for our long-term health, but I have 0 confidence he changes the outcome last night and I think we'd have been in a bigger hole earlier, personally.

 

[ReadHall84]

The lack of talent on this team is clear.

 

[abraxis]

I remember how optimistic we all were when 5-star Lander landed on the Hoosier's front doorstep. By his second season, if not his first, he was going to be in full command of our much needed guard duties after a "disappointing" Romeo. His wiki page says he left high school a year early, in part, so he could play with TJD. Well, I guess just practicing with him is still pretty special, maybe. Somewhere between Evansville and Bloomington, Lander's "it" factor got lost. That's a more difficult thing to do now after the new I-69 construction. We expected more in all those stars.

 

[Coopster]

Led by Xavier’s salty 3-15 performance and 1-6 from 3, our guards were yet again the reason for our loss. I won’t mention another ghost performance by Kopp. He truly just brings zero to the team. 15 league games and the starter Kopp is yet to make more than 2 FG’s in a single game.

Back to our woeful guards last night. Xavier / Bates / Galloway / Lander / Stewart shot a combined 9-36.
Take your pic on POTG. Was it our starting PG Xavier with a stat line of 3-16 FG’s, 1-6 threes, and 5 turnovers and not a single free throw attempt? Or, was it our highly touted 5 star reserve guard Tamar Bates? TB was 0-5 FG’s, O-2 threes and yep, not a single free throw attempt. So our current senior PG along with our “future” combined for 3-21 FG’s, 1-8 from three and my favorite, zero free throws.

This has been the case ongoing for years and the bottom line is our guards as a collective group are terrible. They are the reason we can’t beat anyone. They are the reason we can’t close our games. They are the reason we will miss the tourney for a 6th consecutive year. Outside of Romeo’s one season, we haven’t had a difference maker at the guard spot since Yogi. This remains the biggest problem we have and it’s been this way for 6 years. Until it’s fixed, what we have seen the last several years is what we should expect to see.

Sadly, I have to agree!

 

[CC Mac]

speaking of Kopp, Indy's own Jake Laravia had 19 and 10 tues vs Duke.

And he’s averaging 14 and 6 for the year.
Cooper Neese from little ole Cloverdale is averaging 16 and 4 for ISU.
Both would start at IU.

 

[Wiedersehen]

Led by Xavier’s salty 3-15 performance and 1-6 from 3, our guards were yet again the reason for our loss. I won’t mention another ghost performance by Kopp. He truly just brings zero to the team. 15 league games and the starter Kopp is yet to make more than 2 FG’s in a single game.

Back to our woeful guards last night. Xavier / Bates / Galloway / Lander / Stewart shot a combined 9-36.
Take your pic on POTG. Was it our starting PG Xavier with a stat line of 3-16 FG’s, 1-6 threes, and 5 turnovers and not a single free throw attempt? Or, was it our highly touted 5 star reserve guard Tamar Bates? TB was 0-5 FG’s, O-2 threes and yep, not a single free throw attempt. So our current senior PG along with our “future” combined for 3-21 FG’s, 1-8 from three and my favorite, zero free throws.

This has been the case ongoing for years and the bottom line is our guards as a collective group are terrible. They are the reason we can’t beat anyone. They are the reason we can’t close our games. They are the reason we will miss the tourney for a 6th consecutive year. Outside of Romeo’s one season, we haven’t had a difference maker at the guard spot since Yogi. This remains the biggest problem we have and it’s been this way for 6 years. Until it’s fixed, what we have seen the last several years is what we should expect to see.

Totally agree. We will make the NCAA if our guards can play just average the rest of the season. And it would help to get Rob back.

Remember the 1000 page thread that had people on here trying to convince others that Lander was better than Ivey?

 

[Champs1976]

Guards are a huge problem. But scorers in general are a problem. Outside of TJD (who has gotten shut down in a few games this year) and Race's pretty reliable 10-12 pts./gm there are no other scorers. Virtually no one on this team can make shots with any consistency and no one can create their own shots off the dribble.

And I'm not even talking about 3 pt. shooting. Woodson thought that if he encouraged shooting the 3 pt. shot and expressed confidence in the shooters that would make them effective, he was wrong. The talent and/or the hard work necessary to be great shooters/scorers just isn't there.

Unfortunately, the scorer mentality/talent seems to usually be there almost immediately. Woodson was a great scorer virtually from his first game at IU. Isaiah Thomas was clearly a scorer from day one as was Steve Alford and Calbert Cheney. I thought Tamar Bates could be that kind of player, but he clearly is not, and despite Cav's insistence that he will be very good, I'm now not so sure.

In next year's recruiting class, only Banks looks like he might be a real scorer, at least based on what he's doing this season (but you never know about the cometition maybe making him look better than he is). Hood-Schifino could be a great guard and has a lot of skills, but a guy who can light it up every night? Gunn may be a shooter, but a scorer?

Johnny Davis is a scorer and he gets his points. Even if he starts slow, sooner or later the points come. IU doesn't have anyone like that or anyone with the skills that looks like it will develop (although I really hope Cav is right on Bates).

 

[Beorik]

Guards are a huge problem. But scorers in general are a problem. Outside of TJD (who has gotten shut down in a few games this year) and Race's pretty reliable 10-12 pts./gm there are no other scorers. Virtually no one on this team can make shots with any consistency and no one can create their own shots off the dribble.

And I'm not even talking about 3 pt. shooting. Woodson thought that if he encouraged shooting the 3 pt. shot and expressed confidence in the shooters that would make them effective, he was wrong. The talent and/or the hard work necessary to be great shooters/scorers just isn't there.

Unfortunately, the scorer mentality/talent seems to usually be there almost immediately. Woodson was a great scorer virtually from his first game at IU. Isaiah Thomas was clearly a scorer from day one as was Steve Alford and Calbert Cheney. I thought Tamar Bates could be that kind of player, but he clearly is not, and despite Cav's insistence that he will be very good, I'm now not so sure.

In next year's recruiting class, only Banks looks like he might be a real scorer, at least based on what he's doing this season (but you never know about the cometition maybe making him look better than he is). Hood-Schifino could be a great guard and has a lot of skills, but a guy who can light it up every night? Gunn may be a shooter, but a scorer?

Johnny Davis is a scorer and he gets his points. Even if he starts slow, sooner or later the points come. IU doesn't have anyone like that or anyone with the skills that looks like it will develop (although I really hope Cav is right on Bates).

Agree with pretty much everything you say. I believe Bates could develop into that type of scorer. Hopefully Galloway and Geronimo both develop as well into decent scorers as well. It would be nice to see at least 1-2 of them start stepping up to finish this season.