These are not political prisoners

[hoot1]

I did believe there were people who were overcharged -- or, at least over-sentenced. I understand why: it was the context of their activity, their motive. And I think a good case can be made that the motive was aggravating.

That said, Trump crapped all over the entire idea when issued a sweeping pardon for all of them. Because of course he did.

Trump just like the rest of us has emotions along with intellect.

Given this, seems to me Trump looks at all the charges filed against him as being a politically inspired stacked deck. Consistent with this, he sees those charged with crimes on January 6th as being similar victims.

In other words, Trump has empathy for those charged and found guilty for their acts on January 6th.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Trump just like the rest of us has emotions along with intellect.

Given this, seems to me Trump looks at all the charges filed against him as being a politically inspired stacked deck. Consistent with this, he sees those charged with crimes on January 6th as being similar victims.

In other words, Trump has empathy for those charged and found guilty for their acts on January 6th.

Well, maybe he felt guilty for riling them up to the point where they went and did what they did. And I'm sure he believes the convictions were from a stacked deck and political.

Anyway, JD Vance had the right idea: give clemency to the non-violent and leave the violent ones alone. Assaulting police officers is a terrible thing in any context. And pardoning them sends a terrible message.

I'm really sorry that he did that.

 

[Digressions]

You still don't get it.

I fully understand that they wrote the letter with caveats, plausible deniability, etc. These are intelligence pros, after all. You think it gets them off the hook. But it doesn't -- and here's why...

The purpose of the letter was to give the Biden campaign and supporters in the media the imprimatur to be able to say that "intelligence says it's a Russian op." That way, it's not just Biden denying it on his own. He would now have the cover of people who deal professionally with Russian ops to say it was a Russian op.

This was why the Biden campaign asked them to do it.

The purpose of the caveats is to be able to squirm out of it when/if necessary, like they're doing now....so that people who are predisposed to be supportive of Biden also have the cover to say "That's not what they said!"....like you're doing now.

Again, notice that the caveat magically disappeared when Biden referred to it in the debate and elsewhere. It also magically disappeared when the press referred to it -- like here:

I'm sorry. But it's no sale to me. In fact, it's not even close to a sale. What they did was inexcusable and I'm glad we can bring closure to it with something resembling accountability for the people who did it.

Okay, maybe I do need to explain it.

"They would be guilty, if they didn't use the caveats. They should be punished!!!"

Irony, hypocrisy, or hubris?...probably all three.

What a Biden did with that letter is of no consequence to the guilt of the 51. They won't see a trial over this and for good reason.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Trump just like the rest of us has emotions along with intellect.

Given this, seems to me Trump looks at all the charges filed against him as being a politically inspired stacked deck. Consistent with this, he sees those charged with crimes on January 6th as being similar victims.

In other words, Trump has empathy for those charged and found guilty for their acts on January 6th.

He considers them "patriots" and patriotism to him isn't about the country, it's about him. These are his people in his mind. They'd never harm him, remember?

The famously conservative and pro-Trump editorial board of the WSJ doesn't like these pardons either:

https://www.wsj.com/opinion/donald-trump-pardons-jan-6-capitol-rioters-police-gop-258a4a6e?mod=hp_opin_pos_0

Interestingly one of my wife's friends from church was over and I overheard the friend say to my wife that she already regretted voting for Trump because of the pardons. She believed Trump when he said he was planning to pardon only the nonviolent J6ers. Apparently, she took Trump seriously on something she shouldn't have.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Well, maybe he felt guilty for riling them up to the point where they went and did what they did. And I'm sure he believes the convictions were from a stacked deck and political.

Anyway, JD Vance had the right idea: give clemency to the non-violent and leave the violent ones alone. Assaulting police officers is a terrible thing in any context. And pardoning them sends a terrible message.

I'm really sorry that he did that.

As much sympathy as I have for the J6 criminals, which is something approaching zero, I wouldn't really care much if he gave clemency to the non-violent ones. Giving clemency to the violent ones who assaulted police officers isn't defensible and sends a terrible message.

 

[snarlcakes]

Lived through 16 presidential elections with many not turning out the way I wanted.

Never gave up on our system of electing and governing when my guy didn't win.

Watched the violent break in of the Capitol on January 6th with sadness. Sadness because it appeared to me some of the most patriotic among my fellow Americans may be losing faith in our system.

The fact that most of the angry demonstrators were not previously prone to violence didn't make me feel any less sad for them, or myself.

The most patriotic among us? I'd have to disagree. I'd classify them as a couple thousand idiots who got caught up in a riot. My suggestion is don't hang out with dumb people. Did you have similar feelings during the summer of love?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Fact check false.

Thanks for fact checking this.

What is the number of criminals that have come through the border in the last year?

We have the number that Trump freed.

I'll wait.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I was reading about a trial one of the non violent people who simply walked into the capital got. The only way to really describe it is to say the jury was made up of 12 Bowlmanias' in 94% democrat D.C. He never had a chance the judge would not barely allow him a defense. Plus if you have 12 Bowlmania's on the jury you may as well skip the trial because you will be guilty no matter what. I bet if many of these trials were held in say a suburb of like Houston maybe would of had a 50% conviction rate.

Was this person on camera entering the Cap? If so, trial is over.

 

[outside shooter]

Let's say an angry mob shows up at your house chanting about how they want to kill your wife.

You yell "I have a gun, go away or I'll shoot!"

The break down your door. You barricade yourself and your wife in your bedroom.

You yell "I have a gun, go away or I'll shoot!"

The kick holes in the door and yell "there she is, kill her!"

You yell "I have a gun, go away or I'll shoot!"

The bust down the rest of the door.

You yell "I have a gun, go away or I'll shoot!"

They don't go away. They charge. You shoot.

Tragedy, or no?

VanPastorMan, any response to this scenario, at all?

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Looks who is out.

Ex-Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio back home after Trump's Jan. 6 clemency

“If we would have gotten a fair trial, I wouldn’t have been in a position where I needed a pardon,” he told reporters.

www.nbcnews.com

Disgusting

 

[dbmhoosier]

Was this person on camera entering the Cap? If so, trial is over.

And that’s exactly why the convictions were complete crap. They were never given a fair trial as the Constitution requires.

Consent and mistake are both legal defenses to trespassing too.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Okay, maybe I do need to explain it.

"They would be guilty, if they didn't use the caveats. They should be punished!!!"

Irony, hypocrisy, or hubris?...probably all three.

What a Biden did with that letter is of no consequence to the guilt of the 51. They won't see a trial over this and for good reason.

Of course they won't see a trial. What they did isn't criminal -- it's protected by the 1st Amendment.

But that doesn't mean what they did is OK. There's nothing OK about it. What they did was sinister. It was our own intelligence community getting involved in an election -- which, on its own, is fine. They're acting as private citizens and have just as much right to support or oppose a candidate as anybody else. However (a) they were dishonest (or at least wrong....but I'm pretty sure they knew this wasn't a Russian op), and (b) they were trading on their intelligence credibility to do it.

And in doing that, they did damage to the public faith in the intelligence community.

And I totally disagree with you about Biden's use of it. His use of it was the entire point of their doing it. The Biden campaign literally called Mike Morell and asked him to do it. And my source for this is....Mike Morell.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Okay, maybe I do need to explain it.

"They would be guilty, if they didn't use the caveats. They should be punished!!!"

Irony, hypocrisy, or hubris?...probably all three.

What a Biden did with that letter is of no consequence to the guilt of the 51. They won't see a trial over this and for good reason.

And, once again, the caveat was just a rhetorical gimmick to have it both ways.

They got the action they wanted from the letter -- in the media, among the tech companies, from Biden. They injected the (false) idea that the laptop was a Russian plant.

The caveat was just in there to give them some cover once it became apparent that it wasn't a Russian plant. You have to be naive to fall for that old gag.

 

[outside shooter]

Consent and mistake are both legal defenses to trespassing

Gee whiz Wally, how was I to know that I can't climb through that window that my buddy broke out by hammering it with a chair?

 

[jsig]

They are seditious traitors and enemies of the American experiment. Let's always remember that.

Got it! The Great American experiments such as MK Ultra and Project Mockingbird need enemies.

 

[Ohio Guy]

Gee whiz Wally, how was I to know that I can't climb through that window that my buddy broke out by hammering it with a chair?

It should also be noted that there enough members of the mob shouting 'hang Mike Pence' and calling for Nancy Pelosi and she was literally trying to climb through to an area where they were. And she was warned about it. As someone else here said, tragic but justified.

 

[Ohio Guy]

Got it! The Great American experiments such as MK Ultra and Project Mockingbird need enemies.

I think you misunderstood what he posted.

 

[IUAlum]

Gee whiz Wally, how was I to know that I can't climb through that window that my buddy broke out by hammering it with a chair?

Not to mention pushing past the barriers that were put up to prevent them from entering the building and killing 5 cops along the way. But hey, white supremacist Nazis are gonna do their thing no matter how much truth you throw their way.

 

[IUAlum]

VanPastorMan, any response to this scenario, at all?

Nah, not until he comes up with another but what about to try to distract from it.

 

[hoot1]

The most patriotic among us? I'd have to disagree. I'd classify them as a couple thousand idiots who got caught up in a riot. My suggestion is don't hang out with dumb people. Did you have similar feelings during the summer of love?

Emotional and even angry people aren't necessarily idiots or dumb in my view.

I do hang out with people who are passionate about some issues to the extent that they join in demonstrations. I don't demonstrate with them as it just isn't my cup of tea even when I share their viewpoints. If I thought their views were dumb, I wouldn't share them. The dumb people are those who call them dumb when they disagree.

As to the "summer of love" demonstrations. Seems to me any which resulted in violence hurt their cause. This is one reason I feel demonstrations can be counter productive, as a small minority can ruin it by getting over zealous.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Those rioters were smart enough not to film each other doing damage and then uploading the vids to Facebook.

There are plenty of videos from those riots.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Not to mention pushing past the barriers that were put up to prevent them from entering the building and killing 5 cops along the way. But hey, white supremacist Nazis are gonna do their thing no matter how much truth you throw their way.

Five cops didn’t die on January 6th.

 

[outside shooter]

If I shoot you today and you die next week or even next month, do I get credit for not committing a murder today?

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Thanks for fact checking this.

What is the number of criminals that have come through the border in the last year?

We have the number that Trump freed.

I'll wait.

17K with prior criminal convictions caught by BPD in FY2024.

Criminal Noncitizen Statistics Fiscal Year 2024

Securing America's Borders

www.cbp.gov

However the real number is 3 million as that is the number of inadmissible encounters.

STARTLING STATS FACTSHEET: Fiscal Year 2024 Ends With Nearly 3 Million Inadmissible Encounters, 10.8 Million Total Encounters Since FY2021 – Committee on Homeland Security

homeland.house.gov

Tack on another 500K or so for known getaways.

Needless to say you are orders of magnitude off no matter how you slice it.

 

[Bowlmania]

If I shoot you today and you die next week or even next month, do I get credit for not committing a murder today?

He's clueless.

But in addition to the four who took their own lives in the weeks that followed, about 170 law enforcement officers were injured that day, many seriously. Some had to retire and/or are on disability. Michael Fanone, for example, was beaten to a pulp, tased, burned, suffered a heart attack, threatened with his own weapon, listened to chants of "kill him with his own gun!" and referenced his four little kids while pleading for his life.

Fvck everyone who attacked cops. Karma's a bitch. I hope they one day get what they deserve.

Capitol Police chief: Jan. 6 pardons send message that "politics is more important than policing"

President Trump pardoned about 1,500 people convicted of crimes related to the Capitol riot.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

If I shoot you today and you die next week or even next month, do I get credit for not committing a murder today?

Dumbest analogy I think I’ve ever seen. Just colossally stupid.

 

[IUAlum]

Dumbest analogy I think I’ve ever seen. Just colossally stupid.

So you are good with cop killers then. Wow.

 

[mcmurtry66]

If I shoot you today and you die next week or even next month, do I get credit for not committing a murder today?

Uh not if it’s a drug overdose or natural causes like a heart attack as in this case. No workers comp so not in line of duty. So no

 

[outside shooter]

So you are good with cop killers then. Wow.

Cops killers are fine, but he draws the line at white supremacists.

Oh wait... maybe a dotted line

 

[mushroomgod_1]

As much sympathy as I have for the J6 criminals, which is something approaching zero, I wouldn't really care much if he gave clemency to the non-violent ones. Giving clemency to the violent ones who assaulted police officers isn't defensible and sends a terrible message.

You're a fraud. These were in large part political prosecutions involving corrupt prosecutors and judges. Excess bail. Solitary confinement. Excessive sentences. Where was your expressed concern over any of that, Mr. Republican?

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

He's clueless.

But in addition to the four who took their own lives in the weeks that followed, about 170 law enforcement officers were injured that day, many seriously. Some had to retire and/or are on disability. Michael Fanone, for example, was beaten to a pulp, tased, burned, suffered a heart attack, threatened with his own weapon, listened to chants of "kill him with his own gun!" and referenced his four little kids while pleading for his life.

Fvck everyone who attacked cops. Karma's a bitch. I hope they one day get what they deserve.

Capitol Police chief: Jan. 6 pardons send message that "politics is more important than policing"

President Trump pardoned about 1,500 people convicted of crimes related to the Capitol riot.

www.cbsnews.com

Me- says something that’s objectively true.
Bowl- he’s clueless.

Also Bowl- this board is unreadable. To many sad pathetic hateful people constantly posting lies.

😂

 

[mcmurtry66]

Dumbest analogy I think I’ve ever seen. Just colossally stupid.

Very stupid. Over 2,000 cops were injured during blm bs. A fat cop has a heart attack a week later that’s not a blm injury. Or commits suicide. Overdoses. Whatever

 

[mcmurtry66]

Me- says something that’s objectively true.
Bowl- he’s clueless.

Also Bowl- this board is unreadable. To many sad pathetic hateful people constantly posting lies.

😂

He does nothing but lash out. He has to be the most unhappy person on earth. Never an ounce of humor. Sad stuff

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

You're a fraud. These were in large part political prosecutions involving corrupt prosecutors and judges. Excess bail. Solitary confinement. Excessive sentences. Where was your expressed concern over any of that, Mr. Republican?

You believe nonsense. Don’t ever claim to support the police or say you believe in law and order and the rule of law again. You are supporting clemency for those that assaulted and injured cops. There is nothing Republican about that.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Five cops didn’t die on January 6th.

As I recall, Officer Sicknick died the following day of a stroke. There was some debate as to whether the pepper spray had contributed to the stroke. The ME declared it to be natural causes. But others argued that the J6 events contributed. How sure could anybody ever be?

And then there were 4 suicides of other present officers over the following weeks and months.

Make of all that what you will. You are certainly right that no cops died on that day. But it may be the case that some died as a result of the riot -- either directly or indirectly.

 

[IUAlum]

Cops killers are fine, but he draws the line at white supremacists.

Oh wait... maybe a dotted line

Yeah, I just jumped into a "discussion" about this with people from my home town. All they can do is cry about the dumb bitch who deserved to get shot and deny that cops are dead as a result of J6. I don't know why I waste my energy, I guess that's the point of all the chaos so that we get too burnt out to continue to fight for what is right, but someone has to do it I guess. 🤷‍♀️

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Did the DOJ kill this guy?

Capitol rioter awaiting sentencing dies by suicide, coroner says

Matthew Perna's “community (which he loved), his country, and the justice system killed his spirit and his zest for life,” his family said in an obituary.

www.nbcnews.com

Penn State Grad. No criminal record, he entered through a door that was already open. DOJ asked for enhanced sentencing they wanted to put him away for 5+ years.

He took his own life as Garland’s DOJ dragged his case out and ruined his life over what would typically be known as trespassing.

So. Didn’t the Biden DOJ kill this guy? You start assigning fault for suicides you get into some real dicey territory.

 

[IUAlum]

Very stupid. Over 2,000 cops were injured during blm bs. A fat cop has a heart attack a week later that’s not a blm injury. Or commits suicide. Overdoses. Whatever

False.

There’s no proof BLM caused 36 deaths, 1,000 cop injuries

Some Facebook commenters focused on professional sports leagues’ support of Black Lives Matter when they read this Faceb

www.politifact.com

 

[mcmurtry66]

False.

There’s no proof BLM caused 36 deaths, 1,000 cop injuries

Some Facebook commenters focused on professional sports leagues’ support of Black Lives Matter when they read this Faceb

www.politifact.com

As I said. Over 2,000

More Than 2,000 Officers Injured in Summer's Protests and Riots

More than 2,000 law enforcement officers were injured in the first weeks of protests over the summer following the in-custody death of George Floyd, according to a report from the Major Cities Chiefs Association.

www.policemag.com

 

[bailey777]

As I said. Over 2,000

More Than 2,000 Officers Injured in Summer's Protests and Riots

More than 2,000 law enforcement officers were injured in the first weeks of protests over the summer following the in-custody death of George Floyd, according to a report from the Major Cities Chiefs Association.

www.policemag.com

The trump haters have no legs to stand on with the J6 stuff when most everyone got away with no punishments over the Floyd riots. 196 buildings torched in Minneapolis and only like three people got jail sentences. Give me a break if they had wanted to prosecute these people they would have. Instead they simply turned a blind eye and went on defund the police rants.