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The poison of politics

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TMFT

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I’m watching Russia/Ukraine coverage right now and a guy is making a plea for additional aid.

And it got me thinking about the Afghanistan withdrawal. We supported the Afghan government, they lost in spectacular fashion when we left, and the government got run over the coals for leaving billions in equipment there for the government that got taken by the Taliban.

I highly suspect that if we don’t support Ukraine with material and they lose, the administration will be criticized for not supporting them. If we do provide more stuff for them and they lose they’ll be criticized for “giving” equipment to Russia.

Classic damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
 
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TMFT said:
I’m watching Russia/Ukraine coverage right now and a guy is making a plea for additional aid.

And it got me thinking about the Afghanistan withdrawal. We supported the Afghan government, they lost in spectacular fashion when we left, and the government got run over the coals for leaving billions in equipment there for the government that got taken by the Taliban.

I highly suspect that if we don’t support Ukraine with material and they lose, the administration will be criticized for not supporting them. If we do provide more stuff for them and they lose they’ll be criticized for “giving” equipment to Russia.

Classic damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Click to expand...

quite different circumstances imo.
 
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IU_Hickory said:
You mean the guy that bows to putin and salutes north Korean generals? Lmao
Click to expand...
Part of the game Hick...I know you don't get it, but it is what it is. Heres an article. Bash away, call it BS, it is what it is. You voted for an absolute POS. Here comes the hate...

Trump also recounted an exchange in a Brussels meeting of all 28 member NATO countries where he was pushing for more payments, leading the Austrian leader to ask whether the United States would still defend those countries against a Russian attack if they didn’t pay up.

“No,” Trump said he answered. “We will not defend you.”

His answer led to a public uproar that Trump was reneging on the alliance’s Article 5 provision, under which an attack on one member is considered an attack on all. In what amounted to a deal, Trump later insisted he was not reneging, and NATO countries ponied up more cash that now totals several hundred billion dollars.

There are other stories making the rounds, too, and they are even more provocative. One has it that Trump — noting that Putin seized land from Georgia when George W. Bush was president and seized the Crimean peninsula when Barack Obama was president — warned Putin against a land grab on his watch.

“If you move against Ukraine while I’m president,” Trump is said to have told the Russian leader, “I will hit Moscow.”

Putin reportedly scoffed, “No way,” leading Trump to say, “All those beautiful golden turrets will be blown up.”

A similar story involves Chinese President Xi Jingping. It was during his visit to Mar-a-Lago in 2017 when Trump famously interrupted their chocolate cake dessert to declare he had just ordered the US military to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base after the Syrian government used chemical weapons against rebels and civilians.

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned, though it is possible neither man believed Trump was serious. While it is also possible that both accounts are exaggerated, it is a fact that neither man made the moves Trump is said to have warned against.

“I got along best with the tougher ones” is how he summarized his relations with foreign leaders.
 
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Indianaftw said:
Part of the game Hick...I know you don't get it, but it is what it is. Heres an article. Bash away, call it BS, it is what it is. You voted for an absolute POS. Here comes the hate...

Trump also recounted an exchange in a Brussels meeting of all 28 member NATO countries where he was pushing for more payments, leading the Austrian leader to ask whether the United States would still defend those countries against a Russian attack if they didn’t pay up.

“No,” Trump said he answered. “We will not defend you.”

His answer led to a public uproar that Trump was reneging on the alliance’s Article 5 provision, under which an attack on one member is considered an attack on all. In what amounted to a deal, Trump later insisted he was not reneging, and NATO countries ponied up more cash that now totals several hundred billion dollars.

There are other stories making the rounds, too, and they are even more provocative. One has it that Trump — noting that Putin seized land from Georgia when George W. Bush was president and seized the Crimean peninsula when Barack Obama was president — warned Putin against a land grab on his watch.

“If you move against Ukraine while I’m president,” Trump is said to have told the Russian leader, “I will hit Moscow.”

Putin reportedly scoffed, “No way,” leading Trump to say, “All those beautiful golden turrets will be blown up.”

A similar story involves Chinese President Xi Jingping. It was during his visit to Mar-a-Lago in 2017 when Trump famously interrupted their chocolate cake dessert to declare he had just ordered the US military to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base after the Syrian government used chemical weapons against rebels and civilians.

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned, though it is possible neither man believed Trump was serious. While it is also possible that both accounts are exaggerated, it is a fact that neither man made the moves Trump is said to have warned against.

“I got along best with the tougher ones” is how he summarized his relations with foreign leaders.
Click to expand...
Ftw you have to remember you are trying to reason with a person that thinks its OK for a man to be a woman!
 
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JamieDimonsBalls said:
quite different circumstances imo.
Click to expand...
Certainly.

My point was that the nature of politics and the “road not taken” when it comes to decision making is there.

If we would’ve pulled all assets from Afghanistan, the administration would’ve been blamed for teeing the Afghans up for the Taliban to take back over because of no support.

With all initial intelligence suggesting that Russia will eventually win, there WILL be complaints that we effectively have weapons to Russia if they win.

If we give nothing to Ukraine, then the criticism will be we’re not standing up to Putin.

When did we become so intellectually soft as a country that we’re unable to see the nuance in anything?
 
Lucy01 said:
Ftw you have to remember you are trying to reason with a person that thinks its OK for a man to be a woman!
Click to expand...
I don't reason with people on this board ;). I just post truths to make them squirm about who they are and why they think the stupid sh!t they think. The problem is they and their consciences are already so scorned they don't care anymore. Every time they spew it reminds me of Proverbs 1 and wisdom "fools despise wisdom and instruction". AND I will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Its Sunday...Lesson Over, I gotta go to work. :) :) :)
 
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Indianaftw said:
I don't reason with people on this board ;). I just post truths to make them squirm about who they are and why they think the stupid sh!t they think. The problem is they and their consciences are already so scorned they don't care anymore. Every time they spew it reminds me of Proverbs 1 and wisdom "fools despise wisdom and instruction". AND I will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh;

Its Sunday...Lesson Over, I gotta go to work. :) :) :)
Click to expand...

When will you post your first truth? Still waiting patiently. Might pass out of shock if it actually happens
 
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TMFT said:
I’m watching Russia/Ukraine coverage right now and a guy is making a plea for additional aid.

And it got me thinking about the Afghanistan withdrawal. We supported the Afghan government, they lost in spectacular fashion when we left, and the government got run over the coals for leaving billions in equipment there for the government that got taken by the Taliban.

I highly suspect that if we don’t support Ukraine with material and they lose, the administration will be criticized for not supporting them. If we do provide more stuff for them and they lose they’ll be criticized for “giving” equipment to Russia.

Classic damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Click to expand...
We won’t be sending helicopters, abrams tanks and f22s.
Expendables would be expected to be shot.
 
Indianaftw said:
If it wasn't for posters like me you would be bored out of your mind. When I post video's from Biden or Trump you laugh like it never happened and its in your face...
Click to expand...

Like when i post videos of Trump and you say it is fake news lmao
 
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TMFT said:
I’m watching Russia/Ukraine coverage right now and a guy is making a plea for additional aid.

And it got me thinking about the Afghanistan withdrawal. We supported the Afghan government, they lost in spectacular fashion when we left, and the government got run over the coals for leaving billions in equipment there for the government that got taken by the Taliban.

I highly suspect that if we don’t support Ukraine with material and they lose, the administration will be criticized for not supporting them. If we do provide more stuff for them and they lose they’ll be criticized for “giving” equipment to Russia.

Classic damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Click to expand...
“Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” is only a problem for those politicians who give a damn about that. Better are those who make decisions they think best and then label critics as “fake news.”
 
CO. Hoosier said:
“Damned if you do, damned if you don’t” is only a problem for those politicians who give a damn about that. Better are those who make decisions they think best and then label critics as “fake news.”
Click to expand...
Negative. It’s a problem for politicians because of the number if weak minded voters (of all ideologies) who can’t take a step back and see they’re being played by opinion makers.
 
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twenty02 said:
Please keep your personal fantasies about strong men to yourself.
Click to expand...

there is probably some truth to that. I don’t believe Afghanistan would have gone as poorly (couldn’t have been any worse) and the only thing to keep a lunatic dictator in check is another lunatic with more and better weapons
 
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TMFT said:
Certainly.

My point was that the nature of politics and the “road not taken” when it comes to decision making is there.

If we would’ve pulled all assets from Afghanistan, the administration would’ve been blamed for teeing the Afghans up for the Taliban to take back over because of no support.

With all initial intelligence suggesting that Russia will eventually win, there WILL be complaints that we effectively have weapons to Russia if they win.

If we give nothing to Ukraine, then the criticism will be we’re not standing up to Putin.

When did we become so intellectually soft as a country that we’re unable to see the nuance in anything?
Click to expand...

nothing the Russians get from us, others is that meaningful compared to its current military capabilities. The Taliban had nothing and now they have something.

that’s part of the context that matters. It’s not like we’re leaving f-35 or f-22s and some of the best tanks we have
 
TMFT said:
Public opinion isn’t evidence. It’s opinions. Like opinions about how presidents control a myriad of things that they unequivocally do not.
Click to expand...

Done right using known demographics its science. The outcome is not just one person's opinion. its the aggregate view of respondents who are a sample representative of the entire electorate. in this case of a sample of registered voters nationwide.


"The Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey was conducted between Feb. 23 and Feb. 24 with 2,026 registered voters. The survey is an online sample drawn from the Harris Panel and weighted to reflect known demographics. As a representative online sample, it does not report a probability confidence interval."
 
Ladoga said:
Done right using known demographics its science. The outcome is not just one person's opinion. its the aggregate view of respondents who are a sample representative of the entire electorate. in this case of a sample of registered voters nationwide.


"The Harvard CAPS-Harris Poll survey was conducted between Feb. 23 and Feb. 24 with 2,026 registered voters. The survey is an online sample drawn from the Harris Panel and weighted to reflect known demographics. As a representative online sample, it does not report a probability confidence interval."
Click to expand...
I’m clear that it’s a representation of what the general public thinks. But it’s zero evidence that what they think is true.
 
Indianaftw said:
Part of the game Hick...I know you don't get it, but it is what it is. Heres an article. Bash away, call it BS, it is what it is. You voted for an absolute POS. Here comes the hate...

Trump also recounted an exchange in a Brussels meeting of all 28 member NATO countries where he was pushing for more payments, leading the Austrian leader to ask whether the United States would still defend those countries against a Russian attack if they didn’t pay up.

“No,” Trump said he answered. “We will not defend you.”

His answer led to a public uproar that Trump was reneging on the alliance’s Article 5 provision, under which an attack on one member is considered an attack on all. In what amounted to a deal, Trump later insisted he was not reneging, and NATO countries ponied up more cash that now totals several hundred billion dollars.

There are other stories making the rounds, too, and they are even more provocative. One has it that Trump — noting that Putin seized land from Georgia when George W. Bush was president and seized the Crimean peninsula when Barack Obama was president — warned Putin against a land grab on his watch.

“If you move against Ukraine while I’m president,” Trump is said to have told the Russian leader, “I will hit Moscow.”

Putin reportedly scoffed, “No way,” leading Trump to say, “All those beautiful golden turrets will be blown up.”

A similar story involves Chinese President Xi Jingping. It was during his visit to Mar-a-Lago in 2017 when Trump famously interrupted their chocolate cake dessert to declare he had just ordered the US military to fire 59 Tomahawk cruise missiles at a Syrian air base after the Syrian government used chemical weapons against rebels and civilians.

During that same visit, Trump reportedly told Xi that any military move against Taiwan would be met with an attack on Beijing. Xi, like Putin, is said to have been stunned, though it is possible neither man believed Trump was serious. While it is also possible that both accounts are exaggerated, it is a fact that neither man made the moves Trump is said to have warned against.

“I got along best with the tougher ones” is how he summarized his relations with foreign leaders.
Click to expand...
I find it extremely unlikely that Trump ever actually threatened to bomb Moscow or Beijing. I don’t doubt that Trump may have told other people he did that, but I seriously doubt either of those conversations happened the way your cut and pasted article laid it out.
 
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Ohio Guy said:
I find it extremely unlikely that Trump ever actually threatened to bomb Moscow or Beijing. I don’t doubt that Trump may have told other people he did that, but I seriously doubt either of those conversations happened the way your cut and pasted article laid it out.
Click to expand...
Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth more than any person I have ever seen.

 
Bill4411 said:
Trump talks out of both sides of his mouth more than any person I have ever seen.

View embedded media
Click to expand...
Wow - even in the softball, gimme press conferences of CPAC he's able to to make himself look like a no-nothing idiot.

I honestly don't know how anyone could see/hear him talk on this issue and think for a minute that he could either have prevented it or effectively get Russia to leave Ukraine. That said, too many eligible American voters fall for whatever he's peddling.
 
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Ohio Guy said:
Wow - even in the softball, gimme press conferences of CPAC he's able to to make himself look like a no-nothing idiot.

I honestly don't know how anyone could see/hear him talk on this issue and think for a minute that he could either have prevented it or effectively get Russia to leave Ukraine. That said, too many eligible American voters fall for whatever he's peddling.
Click to expand...

It's how he talks on every issue. Someone asks him a question and he just answers what he wants the question to be in a way that pats himself on the back.

For example, him bringing up space force and how he created it and thus he is awesome. lol
 
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