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The next president inherits a remarkable economy

Surprised to see "Harris" and "laid" in the same paragraph without Willy Brown.
Wait, that was ole hoot?!?

oh-snap-black-people.gif
 
Real Wages were up 8% during Trump's tenure compared to 1% during Biden's. The economy was much better when Trump was in office. Nominal GDP growth doesn't = great economy.
My wife has a client based business. She chose it because I suggested be her own boss and do something she enjoys. It's something people spend disposable income on. She's probably down 50% from 4 years ago.

The economy =/= gdp or stock market.
 
My wife has a client based business. She chose it because I suggested be her own boss and do something she enjoys. It's something people spend disposable income on. She's probably down 50% from 4 years ago.

The economy =/= gdp or stock market.
Restaurants are closing like crazy in my neck of the woods. Our packaging vendor said this is the slowest they’ve been in many years
 
Surrender.

And war and death have always boosted the US economy. Since the second Civil War anyway.

Perhaps the Trump administration will be able to reduce the high percentage of US manufacturing occupied by the military-industrial-surveillance complex.
Internal monologue: "Don't do it. Don't ask. Seriously"


Ok, what was the first Civil War? Or second? Or whatever the **** that's supposed to mean.
 
Internal monologue: "Don't do it. Don't ask. Seriously"


Ok, what was the first Civil War? Or second? Or whatever the **** that's supposed to mean.
I have no doubt he thinks there was a second Civil War, but I have no idea what period of US history in which he thinks it happened.
 
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Sort of was.

If a civil war is a violent war between two organized groups within the same country according to one definition, it
seems to me our Civil War fits this definition.

The January 6th attack may not fit this definition as it was haphazardly organized in my view.. Very much like the wave of violent demonstrations in the Summer of Love.

In my opinion Black Lives Matter was more of a slogan than a well organized group.
 
Internal monologue: "Don't do it. Don't ask. Seriously"


Ok, what was the first Civil War? Or second? Or whatever the **** that's supposed to mean.
Emblematic of the failure of American education.
Find a book and get someone to help you work through it.

80k + 'Royalists' fled to Britain, Canada, Spanish Florida, the Caribbean and other colonies by 1783. Of the American population of roughly 2.8 million, almost 1 million remained loyal subjects of the Crown, including all 13 colonies' governors. At the battles of Saratoga, multiple units of 'Royalist' Americans took up arms against Patriot militias, to include:
King's Loyal Americans (Jessup's Rangers)
Queens Loyal Rangers (Peter's Corps)
Volunteers (Daniel McAlpin)
Captain Samuel Adams Rangers
King's Royal Regiment, New York
1st Bn., Royal Highland Emigrants
Cpt. Hazzard Wilcox Pioneers
Cpt. H. Monro Bateaux Co.
Cpt. P. VanAlstine Bateaux Co.

The settling of accounts continued for many years.

The Netherlands and French supported the Patriots later, as their long war against the Crown continued in the Americas.

You're welcome.
 
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Yep. There are countless bankruptcies, failed businesses and non-profits/foundations legally required to shut down. He's a horrible executive. Ironically, one of his only major successes was playing a successful businessman on a reality TV show.
He’s been wildly successful playing the MAGAts too.
 
Emblematic of the failure of American education.
Find a book and get someone to help you work through it.

80k + 'Royalists' fled to Britain, Canada, Spanish Florida, the Caribbean and other colonies by 1783. Of the American population of roughly 2.8 million, almost 1 million remained loyal subjects of the Crown, including all 13 colonies' governors. At the battles of Saratoga, multiple units of 'Royalist' Americans took up arms against Patriot militias, to include:
King's Loyal Americans (Jessup's Rangers)
Queens Loyal Rangers (Peter's Corps)
Volunteers (Daniel McAlpin)
Captain Samuel Adams Rangers
King's Royal Regiment, New York
1st Bn., Royal Highland Emigrants
Cpt. Hazzard Wilcox Pioneers
Cpt. H. Monro Bateaux Co.
Cpt. P. VanAlstine Bateaux Co.

The settling of accounts continued for many years.

The Netherlands and French supported the Patriots later, as their long war against the Crown continued in the Americas.

You're welcome.
My education was just fine. Thanks. Literally no teacher or professor called our war for independence a civil war. But you do you man.

Then again you probably think the war in Ukraine is a civil war. Maybe that helps you justify your Russia love. Dunno.
 
My education was just fine. Thanks. Literally no teacher or professor called our war for independence a civil war. But you do you man.

Then again you probably think the war in Ukraine is a civil war. Maybe that helps you justify your Russia love. Dunno.
What Russia love is that?
Show me any post I've made wherein I showed any 'love' for Russia. Find one, I'll wait.
I'll make this offer:
Find ONE, and I'll ban myself for 30 days.

if you can't, you ban yourself for 30 days..
 
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What Russia love is that?
Show me any post I've made wherein I showed any 'love' for Russia. Find one, I'll wait.
I'll make this offer:
Find ONE, and I'll ban myself for 30 days.

if you can't, you ban yourself for 30 days..
I don’t get paid to do this Mas.

I’ll concede. You don’t love Russia. But your stance on that war feels otherwise.
 
If a civil war is a violent war between two organized groups within the same country according to one definition, it
seems to me our Civil War fits this definition.

The January 6th attack may not fit this definition as it was haphazardly organized in my view.. Very much like the wave of violent demonstrations in the Summer of Love.

In my opinion Black Lives Matter was more of a slogan than a well organized group.
Hoot, when the role of the 100 or so federal agents and informants masquerading as Trump supporters is revealed, you will have less trouble defining the term.
 
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I don’t get paid to do this Mas.

I’ll concede. You don’t love Russia. But your stance on that war feels otherwise.
I have felt, for decades, that the majority of Russian people are a lot like most Americans were , conservative, Orthodox, independent, and victimized by murderous bolshevik scum.
Read Solzhenitsyn...
I cannot express enough what American military bullying throughout the world has done to our image ....our military industrial surveillance complex relentlessly propagandizes the American people into accepting, even supporting violent criminal acts and lawlessness by our government and her bribed and blackmailed actors.
There are a million dead in Ukraine. Israel is being decimated day by day. Your children are in grave danger, as are mine. My grandson is seven..my granddaughter is six months..
I had twelve of my guys killed in Vietnam...for NOTHING !
I want it to stop.
I won't relent.
 
I have felt, for decades, that the majority of Russian people are a lot like most Americans were , conservative, Orthodox, independent, and victimized by murderous bolshevik scum.
Read Solzhenitsyn...
I cannot express enough what American military bullying throughout the world has done to our image ....our military industrial surveillance complex relentlessly propagandizes the American people into accepting, even supporting violent criminal acts and lawlessness by our government and her bribed and blackmailed actors.
There are a million dead in Ukraine. Israel is being decimated day by day. Your children are in grave danger, as are mine. My grandson is seven..my granddaughter is six months..
I had twelve of my guys killed in Vietnam...for NOTHING !
I want it to stop.
I won't relent.
I don’t know enough about foreign affairs to opine but jfk Jr shares much of your sentiment
 
I have felt, for decades, that the majority of Russian people are a lot like most Americans were , conservative, Orthodox, independent, and victimized by murderous bolshevik scum.
Read Solzhenitsyn...
I cannot express enough what American military bullying throughout the world has done to our image ....our military industrial surveillance complex relentlessly propagandizes the American people into accepting, even supporting violent criminal acts and lawlessness by our government and her bribed and blackmailed actors.
There are a million dead in Ukraine. Israel is being decimated day by day. Your children are in grave danger, as are mine. My grandson is seven..my granddaughter is six months..
I had twelve of my guys killed in Vietnam...for NOTHING !
I want it to stop.
I won't relent.
I may not agree with you Mas but I can at least understand where you’re coming from.
 
I presume most of those posting that think the economy is in great shape are excited about rising layoffs, weak JOLTS data and manufacturing recessions

g1BpTXj.png


The ISM Manufacturing PMI was at 47.2 in September 2024, the same as in August, and slightly below forecasts of 47.5. The reading continued to point to a contraction in the manufacturing sector which now extended for six straight months. Demand continues to be weak, output declined, and inputs stayed accommodative. A decline was seen for new orders (46.1 vs 44.6), inventories (43.9 vs 50.3) and backlog of orders (44.1 vs 43.6) while production nearly stalled (49.8 vs 44.8), prices eased (48.3 vs 54) and supplier deliveries indicated slowing deliveries (52.2 vs 50.5). “Demand remains subdued, as companies showed an unwillingness to invest in capital and inventory due to federal monetary policy and election uncertainty. Production execution stabilized in September. Suppliers continue to have capacity, with lead times improving and shortages reappearing", Timothy Fiore, Chair of the Institute for Supply Management Manufacturing Business Survey Committee said.

I agree with most everything you've posted in this thread. I think it would be important to remind everyone that when the Fed started raising rates they were hoping to cut about 4 million jobs. I posted the video of the chairman's remarks.

It’s also worth noting that DJT has tried to interfere and play politics with the fed from day 1. He has been proven wrong on every occasion and on every occasion he has lobbied for policy that would benefit him- not the country- in the short-term.

Harris might be terrible. There are countless ways we know DJT is.
 
Milton Friedman is rolling in his grave.

Friedman is absolutely correct. So, how did we get here? Because a rising tide didn't lift all boats. People don't understand the relativity of money. MAGA got a tax cut and fell behind. Therefore(they think), the problem must be that the Chinese and Mexicans stole their high paying jobs. Or that the government gives too much to the poor.

The real problem is when MAGA got their $1k tax cut, other people got $20k tax cuts, $50k tax cuts, and $1M tax cuts. Year after year. Money is relative and when you realize what that means, you also realize there's no panacea. Your wealth/well-being is relative to the wealth/well-being of everyone around you.

Look at what happened with the stimulus. Everyone got an equal amount and in the long run no one was better off. Imagine if you didn't receive the stimulus. Were you better off? But now imagine if your stimulus was $1M, and everyone else's stayed the same.

The tax code controls the balance between classes. The progressiveness of the code is much more important than the rate.

With Trump, MAGA will get the tariffs and another tax cut. And while we relive the mistakes of the past, there will still not be a strong middle class.

I ask any of the MAGA people on this board, if you want to make America great again, why hasn't anyone suggested using the tax code from the period when it was great?
 
The tax code controls the balance between classes. The progressiveness of the code is much more important than the rate.
According to The Hill’s analysis of the IRS data, the Trump tax reform benefitted the low and middle class the most and made the rates slightly more progressive. The metrics analyzed are not absolute numbers but percentage of impacts. Of course based on gross numbers high tax payers seem to have benefitted more, but this is a function of the existing substantial progressiveness.

 
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Some historians have characterized our War of Independence as a civil war.
We were 13 colonies, not full and equal participants in British government. I think revolution is the proper word.

FWIW, Franklin tried to negotiate full, or more, British government participation by colonials as a means to avoid revolution. He obviously failed.
 
We were 13 colonies, not full and equal participants in British government. I think revolution is the proper word.

FWIW, Franklin tried to negotiate full, or more, British government participation by colonials as a means to avoid revolution. He obviously failed.
I think you may be conflating participation with representation.
More later after I have my tea.
 
Friedman is absolutely correct. So, how did we get here? Because a rising tide didn't lift all boats. People don't understand the relativity of money. MAGA got a tax cut and fell behind. Therefore(they think), the problem must be that the Chinese and Mexicans stole their high paying jobs. Or that the government gives too much to the poor.

The real problem is when MAGA got their $1k tax cut, other people got $20k tax cuts, $50k tax cuts, and $1M tax cuts. Year after year. Money is relative and when you realize what that means, you also realize there's no panacea. Your wealth/well-being is relative to the wealth/well-being of everyone around you.

Look at what happened with the stimulus. Everyone got an equal amount and in the long run no one was better off. Imagine if you didn't receive the stimulus. Were you better off? But now imagine if your stimulus was $1M, and everyone else's stayed the same.

The tax code controls the balance between classes. The progressiveness of the code is much more important than the rate.

With Trump, MAGA will get the tariffs and another tax cut. And while we relive the mistakes of the past, there will still not be a strong middle class.

I ask any of the MAGA people on this board, if you want to make America great again, why hasn't anyone suggested using the tax code from the period when it was great?
Stimulus didn’t go to everyone. It was cut out at a certain income level. I didn’t get it and that’s OK.
 
According to The Hill’s analysis of the IRS data, the Trump tax reform benefitted the low and middle class the most and made the rates slightly more progressive. The metrics analyzed are not absolute numbers but percentage of impacts. Of course based on gross numbers high tax payers seem to have benefitted more, but this is a function of the existing substantial progressiveness.

This is proving my point exactly. Hopefully, I can explain why later.
 
Not to mention the 881,000 downward revision of 2023's 'jobs added' reporting by the BLS.
It seems every bit of data emanating from this corrupt government is contrived falsehoods.
Jobs reports. Wrong.
Fbi crime data. Wrong.
 
Stimulus didn’t go to everyone. It was cut out at a certain income level. I didn’t get it and that’s OK.
The way the stimulus was doled out was a disgrace. A person could have 5 million dollars in savings and still get it if within the income limit. Then there are retirees like myself... the pandemic didn't affect my income at all. If I hadn't converted IRA money into a Roth we would have gotten it and we sure didn't need it or deserve it. They should have taken the money (even if it was the same total amount) and given it to people who really needed it.
 
According to The Hill’s analysis of the IRS data, the Trump tax reform benefitted the low and middle class the most and made the rates slightly more progressive. The metrics analyzed are not absolute numbers but percentage of impacts. Of course based on gross numbers high tax payers seem to have benefitted more, but this is a function of the existing substantial progressiveness.

Using the authors numbers and being generous to their argument. A person making 50k pays approximately $5,700 in income taxes. A 26% cut of that equals $1,482.

A person making $1M pays approximately $328,000. A 9% cut equals $29,520.

So the net effect to discretionary spending is $1,482 to $29,520, respectively. The guy making $1M got a larger tax stimulus. And because money is relative, he is relatively better off.

The fact that the author offered this as evidence that the tax cuts were progressive and people believe it is the problem. 5% across the board was not fair.

And if people making $1M would have received a $29k stimulus, while people making 50k received $1,500, there would have been outrage. Yet, the net effect is the same.
 
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The ones signed by Trump did.
We got no check. The amount was reduced with higher income and at a certain income level it went to zero. We were above that level so got $0.


 
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