The Labor Shortage Myth

[toastedbread]

This is the best takedown I've seen so far.

The STEM Graduate System Is Broken. Here’s How to Fix It.

The Optional Practical Training program started out with good intentions, but it’s depressing wages while exploiting foreign students and disadvantaging American ones.

www.bloomberg.com

Sadly, there is no one fighting for workers.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We hear a lot of "we cannot find workers", the not-spoken end of that sentence is "for the amount we want to pay". If Microsoft cannot find a coder for $100,000, the market is telling us that is not enough. If the local janitorial services company cannot find people for $18/hour, the market is saying they need to pay more.

Corporations do not complain when the market says to pay the CEO double and provide a golden parachute. They have no business complaining at the other end of the food chain.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

We hear a lot of "we cannot find workers", the not-spoken end of that sentence is "for the amount we want to pay". If Microsoft cannot find a coder for $100,000, the market is telling us that is not enough. If the local janitorial services company cannot find people for $18/hour, the market is saying they need to pay more.

Corporations do not complain when the market says to pay the CEO double and provide a golden parachute. They have no business complaining at the other end of the food chain.

I don’t think this is fully true Marv. I used to attend career fairs targeting veterans at the request of my employer. Given where I live, in natural gas country, there are dozens of gas companies all along the value stream there recruiting. I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

Some people just don’t want to work hard, and that’s a basic fact. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it’s part of the equation.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don’t think this is fully true Marv. I used to attend career fairs targeting veterans at the request of my employer. Given where I live, in natural gas country, there are dozens of gas companies all along the value stream there recruiting. I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

Some people just don’t want to work hard, and that’s a basic fact. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it’s part of the equation.

Yep. A significant number of Americans don't want to work and don't want to work hard. Spend an afternoon at the social security disability hearing office. We've moved all of our production to a city in Pakistan. No exaggeration the president of the company responds to calls 24/7. They have shifts working 24/7 to ensure orders are fulfilled perfectly and timely. The difference between my experiences in the US (which includes double digit factories) and overseas has been night and day. I can't imagine ever making another product in the US

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I don’t think this is fully true Marv. I used to attend career fairs targeting veterans at the request of my employer. Given where I live, in natural gas country, there are dozens of gas companies all along the value stream there recruiting. I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

Some people just don’t want to work hard, and that’s a basic fact. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it’s part of the equation.

There are people who are, uhm, particular. I would just say right now the market demands a premium for hard work.

 

[toastedbread]

We hear a lot of "we cannot find workers", the not-spoken end of that sentence is "for the amount we want to pay". If Microsoft cannot find a coder for $100,000, the market is telling us that is not enough. If the local janitorial services company cannot find people for $18/hour, the market is saying they need to pay more.

Corporations do not complain when the market says to pay the CEO double and provide a golden parachute. They have no business complaining at the other end of the food chain.

We both know that Microsoft et al can afford the higher wages. But then their profit margins shall be lower.

Immigration is now a tool for corporate America to keep wages low. Progressives have abondoned labor. Bernie used to be a staunch opponent of unbridled immigration. Both parties love both legal and illegal immigration because they are controlled by big biz.

 

[UncleMark]

I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

But there were people saying "yes" as well, weren't there? And if there wasn't, then the offers weren't high enough. Simple as that. That's how a market works -- finding a sweet spot between 'yes" and "no".

 

[toastedbread]

But there were people saying "yes" as well, weren't there? And if there wasn't, then the offers weren't high enough. Simple as that. That's how a market works -- finding a sweet spot between 'yes" and "no".

If companies are extremely profitable, but they have people saying no and claiming they don't have qualified workers then they should be paying more instead of abusing our politics. Immigration is not a corporate asset.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

We both know that Microsoft et al can afford the higher wages. But then their profit margins shall be lower.

Immigration is now a tool for corporate America to keep wages low. Progressives have abondoned labor. Bernie used to be a staunch opponent of unbridled immigration. Both parties love both legal and illegal immigration because they are controlled by big biz.

I see two separate issues. I am not anti-immigration. Immigrants have always been hated in America going back to the Irish/Germans/Italians in the early 1800s onward. But our birth rate today sucks, and that is terrible for an economy. And I think immigrants bring much more to the table.

But then there is the guest/temporary worker program. That's a different story. Bringing people in who are not on a citizenship pathway just to lower wages is wrong imho and totally different than bringing in people who want to be citizens and contribute to this country.

 

[td75]

One of the very big problems this country faces, and will continue to face, is the shortage of the skilled tradesman. There are several reasons why the tradesman is in short supply; When you have a public school system that typically preaches a four year degree, you get less kids going into the trades.

I would also argue that the original premise behind a four year degree was to qualify oneself for a desk job. A desk job equals less demanding work and certainly less physical work. This was the intent, and at its core is laziness...It's a debatable point and I understand that.

As a proud painter, the trades offer individualism that most jobs never will. Get up in the woods painting a large exterior in the spring and a 45 year old man can suddenly feel 25 again...He can feel the first real warm air in months, and make a living on HIS TERMS...That's a BIG deal to me.

 

[toastedbread]

I see two separate issues. I am not anti-immigration. Immigrants have always been hated in America going back to the Irish/Germans/Italians in the early 1800s onward. But our birth rate today sucks, and that is terrible for an economy. And I think immigrants bring much more to the table.

But then there is the guest/temporary worker program. That's a different story. Bringing people in who are not on a citizenship pathway just to lower wages is wrong imho and totally different than bringing in people who want to be citizens and contribute to this country.

I am the most pro-immigrant person you will ever meet. Pro individual immigrant. No one should be discriminated against on the basis of their origin.

I disagree with you about immigration from the standpoint of I think that automation and technology are replacing the need for so many people. Those 10 million jobs lost during the pandemic will never come back. My mom was one of them. So I'm less concerned about a limitless labor supply as more and more things are automated.

I also prefer a merit based immigration system. By merit I mean if you are a top researcher you should have a green card stamped to your diploma. A rich foreigner paying to study a masters in history at western Washington state community college should not have a green card attached to their diploma. I'll give you one example, there is something called the O visa which is intended for olympic athletes. In the case of chess players, any chess player with a title is coming here and applying for this. The criteria should be much stricter.

I also believe in the rule of law. When it comes to immigration, it appears that the law no longer applies.

Further, when it comes to helping folks from central America I believe we should attempt to help them in their own countries. Allowing economic refugees to file false asylum claims will only lower our own standard of living. It's a lot cheaper to help them before they make the journey.

I am concerned about the American worker. Our wages have stagnated for 40 years while corporate profits skyrocket.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

But there were people saying "yes" as well, weren't there? And if there wasn't, then the offers weren't high enough. Simple as that. That's how a market works -- finding a sweet spot between 'yes" and "no".

I didn’t hear too many yes’s those days but surely they were getting some. My point is that’s an absurd amount of money for a 26 yr old to make without advanced training and a degree and they were saying No.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

One of the very big problems this country faces, and will continue to face, is the shortage of the skilled tradesman. There are several reasons why the tradesman is in short supply; When you have a public school system that typically preaches a four year degree, you get less kids going into the trades.

I would also argue that the original premise behind a four year degree was to qualify oneself for a desk job. A desk job equals less demanding work and certainly less physical work. This was the intent, and at its core is laziness...It's a debatable point and I understand that.

As a proud painter, the trades offer individualism that most jobs never will. Get up in the woods painting a large exterior in the spring and a 45 year old man can suddenly feel 25 again...He can feel the first real warm air in months, and make a living on HIS TERMS...That's a BIG deal to me.

I agree with this post. Public school education started emphasizing college over skilled labor. While not a terrible thing to go to college, the pendulum swung so far that the feeling was you were a failure if you didn't aspire to go on to college.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I disagree with you about immigration from the standpoint of I think that automation and technology are replacing the need for so many people. Those 10 million jobs lost during the pandemic will never come back. My mom was one of them. So I'm less concerned about a limitless labor supply as more and more things are automated.

Automation is its own problem for jobs. But the need for a growing population is business. When countries grow, they need housing, schools, roads, etc. Kids are vast consumers for new clothes and toys and books and computers. All of that means more jobs. Look at Japan, no population growth for a long time, and her economy has sucked, for a long time. Japan has very low unemployment, but its economy still has struggled for some time.

Further, when it comes to helping folks from central America I believe we should attempt to help them in their own countries. Allowing economic refugees to file false asylum claims will only lower our own standard of living. It's a lot cheaper to help them before they make the journey.

I think making Central America liveable should be a prioity. It is better to deal with the problems there and not have the mass exodus to here.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I agree with this post. Public school education started emphasizing college over skilled labor. While not a terrible thing to go to college, the pendulum swung so far that the feeling was you were a failure if you didn't aspire to go on to college.

Buttigieg had a great line: we have to make it affordable to go to college and we have to make it affordable to not go to college.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

One of the very big problems this country faces, and will continue to face, is the shortage of the skilled tradesman. There are several reasons why the tradesman is in short supply; When you have a public school system that typically preaches a four year degree, you get less kids going into the trades.

I would also argue that the original premise behind a four year degree was to qualify oneself for a desk job. A desk job equals less demanding work and certainly less physical work. This was the intent, and at its core is laziness...It's a debatable point and I understand that.

As a proud painter, the trades offer individualism that most jobs never will. Get up in the woods painting a large exterior in the spring and a 45 year old man can suddenly feel 25 again...He can feel the first real warm air in months, and make a living on HIS TERMS...That's a BIG deal to me.

In my experience, good contractors are making a killing right now and controlling the conversation about price and timing. There is such a dearth of skilled tradesmen that it’s hard to get someone to come out even for an estimate.

 

[toastedbread]

Automation is its own problem for jobs. But the need for a growing population is business. When countries grow, they need housing, schools, roads, etc. Kids are vast consumers for new clothes and toys and books and computers. All of that means more jobs. Look at Japan, no population growth for a long time, and her economy has sucked, for a long time. Japan has very low unemployment, but its economy still has struggled for some time.

We have an obsession with the size of the economy. I care about the median gdp per cap. I don't care if the size of our economy is $1 or 5000 quadrillion. Sure wall st wants the the largest size with the cheapest labor pool possible.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I don’t think this is fully true Marv. I used to attend career fairs targeting veterans at the request of my employer. Given where I live, in natural gas country, there are dozens of gas companies all along the value stream there recruiting. I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

Some people just don’t want to work hard, and that’s a basic fact. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it’s part of the equation.

so your saying people go into the military to avoid working hard?

interesting take.

that said, this has absolutely zero to do with employers hiring immigrants they can control far more than American workers, and pay far less, for tech jobs.

and it's not just big tech employers doing it, it's all employers who can do it for their tech hires, doing it.

that said, just because you say something doesn't mean i believe it for 2 seconds.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

Yep. A significant number of Americans don't want to work and don't want to work hard. Spend an afternoon at the social security disability hearing office. We've moved all of our production to a city in Pakistan. No exaggeration the president of the company responds to calls 24/7. They have shifts working 24/7 to ensure orders are fulfilled perfectly and timely. The difference between my experiences in the US (which includes double digit factories) and overseas has been night and day. I can't imagine ever making another product in the US

you're more than welcome to go live in Pakistan, and never come back.

and go for the full Paki experience, you know, like those workers you love, no living in a compound.

that said, i remember when US factories had shifts working 24 hrs a day, and when support was available 24 hrs a day.

that was before you lobbyists took over both parties, and the media and US govt started working only for Wall St and big money again,

like the good ole days of child labor, 72 hr work weeks, and no worker protections, who's return you long and work so hard for all day every day..

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I don’t think this is fully true Marv. I used to attend career fairs targeting veterans at the request of my employer. Given where I live, in natural gas country, there are dozens of gas companies all along the value stream there recruiting. I got tired of hearing young, unqualified vets keep saying “no” to some of these fracking companies that were going to pay them 8x what they made in the military.

Some people just don’t want to work hard, and that’s a basic fact. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m saying it’s part of the equation.

US fracking is a totally subsidized govt industry, where the product has never brought what it cost to produce it.

all those high wages you speak of are high only because the US taxpayer is subsidizing a good percentage of them, and all the wages and salaries of the higher ups, and the share price for the investors.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I see two separate issues. I am not anti-immigration. Immigrants have always been hated in America going back to the Irish/Germans/Italians in the early 1800s onward. But our birth rate today sucks, and that is terrible for an economy. And I think immigrants bring much more to the table.

But then there is the guest/temporary worker program. That's a different story. Bringing people in who are not on a citizenship pathway just to lower wages is wrong imho and totally different than bringing in people who want to be citizens and contribute to this country.

best post yet Marv. Agree on all fronts.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

disagree with you about immigration from the standpoint of I think that automation and technology are replacing the need for so many people. Those 10 million jobs lost during the pandemic will never come back. My mom was one of them. So I'm less concerned about a limitless labor supply as more and more things are automated.

i cannot imagine that is right (then not coming back), but I would enjoy seeing the data and detail to be proven wrong.

 

[mcmurtry66]

you're more than welcome to go live in Pakistan, and never come back.

and go for the full Paki experience, you know, like those workers you love, no living in a compound.

that said, i remember when US factories had shifts working 24 hrs a day, and when support was available 24 hrs a day.

that was before you lobbyists took over both parties, and the media and US govt started working only for Wall St and big money again,

like the good ole days of child labor, 72 hr work weeks, and no worker protections, who's return you long and work so hard for all day every day..

I agree with much of what you write. And I don’t know the answer. The reality is that we are in a space with adidas, Nike, and puma and all of their products are made abroad. There is no way to compete manufacturing in the states. Believe me we’ve spent five years trying. Within six months of going overseas we’ve exploded.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I see two separate issues. I am not anti-immigration. Immigrants have always been hated in America going back to the Irish/Germans/Italians in the early 1800s onward. But our birth rate today sucks, and that is terrible for an economy. And I think immigrants bring much more to the table.

But then there is the guest/temporary worker program. That's a different story. Bringing people in who are not on a citizenship pathway just to lower wages is wrong imho and totally different than bringing in people who want to be citizens and contribute to this country.

a low birth rate doesn't help the investor class or real estate values, but it doesn't hurt the working or middle class one bit.

don't let Wall St define what "the economy" is, because they lie more than Trump.

as for immigrants, the lure for employers to hire immigrants is low wages, no benefits including no healthcare, and an ability to control them far more than they can control a US worker.

a $15 hr min wage and Medicare For All would significantly lessen employer's incentive to hire immigrants over US workers.

that said, we broke where many of these immigrants are coming from, so we owe them some responsibility as well.

we can have good pay and plenty of good jobs for US working class workers, and still take immigrants.

that we can't, is a false choice.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

I agree with much of what you write. And I don’t know the answer. The reality is that we are in a space with adidas, Nike, and puma and all of their products are made abroad. There is no way to compete manufacturing in the states. Believe me we’ve spent five years trying. Within six months of going overseas we’ve exploded.

the solution isn't rocket science.

just make it more expensive to import than produce or service from onshore, anything that can be produced or serviced onshore, and the giant sucking sound goes into full reverse mode the next day, and the jobs start returning the next day, along with a construction boom like we haven't seen in decades.

and at least or even more important, is our supply chains, including all our meds and their base ingredients, and chip development and manufacturing, and telecom essentials, and a zillion other essential industries and supply chains for, return as well, and China or any other country no longer totally owns us to the point they can do whatever they want, or kill half a million US persons with impunity, or steal all our tech, and all we can do is say "thank you, may i have another".

that said, for that to work, both parties have to be on board, and Wall St can't think all they have to do is wait out one election cycle.

we know the solution. always have.

solving the problems just aren't the goal of the ruling class.

remove all money and direct and indirect bribes and extortion from politics and governance, and the problem of our govt serving only Wall St and the super rich, at the direct expense of the country and the citizenry as a whole, goes away the next day as well.

 

[hookyIU1990]

To the original point of skilled workers, there are absolutely shortages in certain areas. I've been in the technology consulting field almost my entire professional life and the last 23 in a specific segment. We have technical jobs that start at 90K and range up to 140K with benefits that we can't fill. Plenty of applicants, but they can't pass the screening tests. We've had people who are rock stars on their resume, get up and walk out of the problem solving portion of our interview process. Before we implemented that, we'd hire people based on resume, interview and references only to have them flame out when inserted into a real world project.

Probably half of our clients who have people on staff working with the technology are barely able to find people who can fog a mirror and do basic development. We hire kids out of school in an attempt to build a farm system, but are realizing it's not something we can sustain. We're a boutique consultancy and can command good rates, but still can't hire enough people to take advantage of all of our opportunity. If we could, we could probably also hire junior resources that we could groom and bill at lower rates to some of our smaller clients who struggle with the current labor market.

We talk about our sports teams being soft and not putting out the effort. It's a similar situation for us and our clients when it comes to domestic talent.

Flame away....

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

so your saying people go into the military to avoid working hard?

interesting take.

that said, this has absolutely zero to do with employers hiring immigrants they can control far more than American workers, and pay far less, for tech jobs.

and it's not just big tech employers doing it, it's all employers who can do it for their tech hires, doing it.

that said, just because you say something doesn't mean i believe it for 2 seconds.

Yeah ok. When will you be burying those bodies?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Buttigieg had a great line: we have to make it affordable to go to college and we have to make it affordable to not go to college.

I think it's extremely affordable not to go to college. If someone had shown me just how affordable it was when I was 18, I might not have gone to college myself. Nothing against my experiences at IUB, or my various post-graduate stops, but I'd probably be a lot better off financially right now if I had just picked a career and slogged my way up the ranks right out of high school.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I think it's extremely affordable not to go to college. If someone had shown me just how affordable it was when I was 18, I might not have gone to college myself. Nothing against my experiences at IUB, or my various post-graduate stops, but I'd probably be a lot better off financially right now if I had just picked a career and slogged my way up the ranks right out of high school.

Yes - but that’s because there is arbitrage right now for skilled persons not going into college and learning a trade leading to their own company. The more who do this eliminates the arbitrage and levels the trades playing field.

If you’re not talking about a trade, I’d be interested in hearing what your “do-over” plan would be.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yes - but that’s because there is arbitrage right now for skilled persons not going into college and learning a trade leading to their own company. The more who do this eliminates the arbitrage and levels the trades playing field.

If you’re not talking about a trade, I’d be interested in hearing what your “do-over” plan would be.

Good point. The road not taken is definitely improved by just how many people didn't take it.

 

[twenty02]

a low birth rate doesn't help the investor class or real estate values, but it doesn't hurt the working or middle class one bit.

don't let Wall St define what "the economy" is, because they lie more than Trump.

as for immigrants, the lure for employers to hire immigrants is low wages, no benefits including no healthcare, and an ability to control them far more than they can control a US worker.

a $15 hr min wage and Medicare For All would significantly lessen employer's incentive to hire immigrants over US workers.

that said, we broke where many of these immigrants are coming from, so we owe them some responsibility as well.

we can have good pay and plenty of good jobs for US working class workers, and still take immigrants.

that we can't, is a false choice.

Nobody will take a person seriously that can't pass a 3rd grade punctuation test.

So why do you attempt to keep trying to pass yourself off as a serious person?

 

[twenty02]

Buttigieg had a great line: we have to make it affordable to go to college and we have to make it affordable to not go to college.

Eventually people of his (our) generation will be in control and common sense will return. The idiocy of the boomer generation thinking will fade.

 

[twenty02]

To the original point of skilled workers, there are absolutely shortages in certain areas. I've been in the technology consulting field almost my entire professional life and the last 23 in a specific segment. We have technical jobs that start at 90K and range up to 140K with benefits that we can't fill. Plenty of applicants, but they can't pass the screening tests. We've had people who are rock stars on their resume, get up and walk out of the problem solving portion of our interview process. Before we implemented that, we'd hire people based on resume, interview and references only to have them flame out when inserted into a real world project.

Probably half of our clients who have people on staff working with the technology are barely able to find people who can fog a mirror and do basic development. We hire kids out of school in an attempt to build a farm system, but are realizing it's not something we can sustain. We're a boutique consultancy and can command good rates, but still can't hire enough people to take advantage of all of our opportunity. If we could, we could probably also hire junior resources that we could groom and bill at lower rates to some of our smaller clients who struggle with the current labor market.

We talk about our sports teams being soft and not putting out the effort. It's a similar situation for us and our clients when it comes to domestic talent.

Flame away....

This is my world. The reality is there aren't enough smart people available that can do work that is beyond plug and play. Any level of creative, independent problem solving requires folks that get comped beyond the resources
of most projects.

My estimation is that only about 10% of the population is capable of doing the complicated work that's required in our economy for a decent paying job. And the more people I attempt to hire, the more I think I may be overestimating that. The people I've hired for $80-100k jobs that look at A-B -D, and can't figure out where C is supposed to fit is amazing to me.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Eventually people of his (our) generation will be in control and common sense will return. The idiocy of the boomer generation thinking will fade.

Agreed. Until Gen Z takes over. They’re being brainwashed into oblivion.

 

[LurkingSinceLebowski]

Eventually people of his (our) generation will be in control and common sense will return. The idiocy of the boomer generation thinking will fade.

That's a wonderful proclamation. I can hardly wait!
The youngest boomers are 57, maybe 58. About 70+ million in the US. Gen X and Gen Y number around 137 million. With those numbers, one might believe that boomers are racing toward irrelevance and, following your premise, idiocy will be relegated to the dictionary in the near term.

I'm betting that generational affiliation has little to do with idiocy.

 

[toastedbread]

To the original point of skilled workers, there are absolutely shortages in certain areas. I've been in the technology consulting field almost my entire professional life and the last 23 in a specific segment. We have technical jobs that start at 90K and range up to 140K with benefits that we can't fill. Plenty of applicants, but they can't pass the screening tests. We've had people who are rock stars on their resume, get up and walk out of the problem solving portion of our interview process. Before we implemented that, we'd hire people based on resume, interview and references only to have them flame out when inserted into a real world project.

Probably half of our clients who have people on staff working with the technology are barely able to find people who can fog a mirror and do basic development. We hire kids out of school in an attempt to build a farm system, but are realizing it's not something we can sustain. We're a boutique consultancy and can command good rates, but still can't hire enough people to take advantage of all of our opportunity. If we could, we could probably also hire junior resources that we could groom and bill at lower rates to some of our smaller clients who struggle with the current labor market.

We talk about our sports teams being soft and not putting out the effort. It's a similar situation for us and our clients when it comes to domestic talent.

Flame away....

This is my world. The reality is there aren't enough smart people available that can do work that is beyond plug and play. Any level of creative, independent problem solving requires folks that get comped beyond the resources
of most projects.

My estimation is that only about 10% of the population is capable of doing the complicated work that's required in our economy for a decent paying job. And the more people I attempt to hire, the more I think I may be overestimating that. The people I've hired for $80-100k jobs that look at A-B -D, and can't figure out where C is supposed to fit is amazing to me.

But that's precisely the issue. You guys aren't paying enough. 90k is peanuts these days for hi tech jobs, unless you are plying cheap OPT labor. If not for OPT, tech wages would be 200k+ minimum.

 

[hookyIU1990]

But that's precisely the issue. You guys aren't paying enough. 90k is peanuts these days for hi tech jobs, unless you are plying cheap OPT labor. If not for OPT, tech wages would be 200k+ minimum.

We have people making that and we have people making less than 80. We have this hole in the middle that we can't fill.

We also have to balance what we pay with the rates we're able to charge to clients. Your blanket statement of everyone in tech should make 200k isn't the real world. Tech isn't a black box where everyone does the same thing and has the same skillset. It's a continuum or spectrum. That's why our immigration policy is so jacked up. It's a one size fits all mindset in a world where there isn't one size.

 

[twenty02]

That's a wonderful proclamation. I can hardly wait!
The youngest boomers are 57, maybe 58. About 70+ million in the US. Gen X and Gen Y number around 137 million. With those numbers, one might believe that boomers are racing toward irrelevance and, following your premise, idiocy will be relegated to the dictionary in the near term.

I'm betting that generational affiliation has little to do with idiocy.

Idiocy will always run rampant. I don't believe younger generations are near as interested in partisanship constant warfare.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Idiocy will always run rampant. I don't believe younger generations are near as interested in partisanship constant warfare.

I am a Boomer who posted often for a non-Boomer last election. That said, AOC and MTG are both considered very partisan and neither are Boomers. There are other examples.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

To the original point of skilled workers, there are absolutely shortages in certain areas. I've been in the technology consulting field almost my entire professional life and the last 23 in a specific segment. We have technical jobs that start at 90K and range up to 140K with benefits that we can't fill. Plenty of applicants, but they can't pass the screening tests. We've had people who are rock stars on their resume, get up and walk out of the problem solving portion of our interview process. Before we implemented that, we'd hire people based on resume, interview and references only to have them flame out when inserted into a real world project.

Probably half of our clients who have people on staff working with the technology are barely able to find people who can fog a mirror and do basic development. We hire kids out of school in an attempt to build a farm system, but are realizing it's not something we can sustain. We're a boutique consultancy and can command good rates, but still can't hire enough people to take advantage of all of our opportunity. If we could, we could probably also hire junior resources that we could groom and bill at lower rates to some of our smaller clients who struggle with the current labor market.

We talk about our sports teams being soft and not putting out the effort. It's a similar situation for us and our clients when it comes to domestic talent.

Flame away....

I am sure there are rare examples. At the same time there is Disney firing their IT staff and replacing them with H-1B workers. There are plenty of "normal" IT workers in this country.