The Holocaust: Required Instruction in Public Schools

[Bowlmania]

Tomorrow is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

I'm linking Florida legislation that was passed in the '90s, requiring public schools to provide instruction on "the history of the Holocaust, the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions."

Would similarly worded legislation have a chance of enactment today in Florida and many other states? Too "woke?" Are laws like this at risk of being repealed?

A Holocaust survivor spoke to my kids and classmates in their (not Florida) public school a few years back. The discussion left an enormous impression on my Christian kids, and that's a good thing. As evidenced by my second link, this topic needs to be part of the national discourse, perhaps now more than ever.

Chapter 233 Section 061 - 1998 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

Antisemitic Incidents Hit 42-Year High Across U.S. In 2021, ADL Report Says

While Israel and Hamas battled in 2021, antisemitic incidents in the U.S. increased, as did the proportion of antisemitic harassment referencing Israel and Zionism, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

www.forbes.com

 

[Noodle]

Yes. In fact, Florida actually expanded on the above provision in 2020 (signed by Desantis) by adding the provisions in bold:

(g)1. The history of the Holocaust (1933-1945), the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions, including the policy, definition, and historical and current examples of anti-Semitism, as described in s. 1000.05(7), and the prevention of anti-Semitism. Each school district must annually certify and provide evidence to the department, in a manner prescribed by the department, that the requirements of this paragraph are met. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education’s Task Force on Holocaust Education or from any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations. The department may contract with any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations to develop training for instructional personnel and grade-appropriate classroom resources to support the developed curriculum.​

2. The second week in November shall be designated as “Holocaust Education Week” in this state in recognition that November is the anniversary of Kristallnacht, widely recognized as a precipitating event that led to the Holocaust.​

In 2019 (also signed by DeSantis I believe), they added the following to Florida law:

(7) A public K-20 educational institution must treat discrimination by students or employees or resulting from institutional policies motivated by anti-Semitic intent in an identical manner to discrimination motivated by race. For purposes of this section, the term “anti-Semitism” includes a certain perception of the Jewish people, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jewish people, rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism directed toward a person, his or her property, or toward Jewish community institutions or religious facilities.
(a) Examples of anti-Semitism include:

1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews, often in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.​

2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as a collective, especially, but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.​

3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, the State of Israel, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.​

4. Accusing Jews as a people or the State of Israel of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.​

5. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interest of their own nations.​

(b) Examples of anti-Semitism related to Israel include:

1. Demonizing Israel by using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism to characterize Israel or Israelis, drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, or blaming Israel for all inter-religious or political tensions.​

2. Applying a double standard to Israel by requiring behavior of Israel that is not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation or focusing peace or human rights investigations only on Israel.​

3. Delegitimizing Israel by denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination and denying Israel the right to exist.​

However, criticism of Israel that is similar to criticism toward any other country may not be regarded as anti-Semitic.​

(c) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, or the State Constitution. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to conflict with federal or state discrimination laws.​

(8) A person aggrieved by a violation of this section or a violation of a rule adopted under this section has a right of action for such equitable relief as the court may determine. The court may also award reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs to a prevailing party.​

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Tomorrow is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

I'm linking Florida legislation that was passed in the '90s, requiring public schools to provide instruction on "the history of the Holocaust, the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions."

Would similarly worded legislation have a chance of enactment today in Florida and many other states? Too "woke?" Are laws like this at risk of being repealed?

A Holocaust survivor spoke to my kids and classmates in their (not Florida) public school a few years back. The discussion left an enormous impression on my Christian kids, and that's a good thing. As evidenced by my second link, this topic needs to be part of the national discourse, perhaps now more than ever.

Chapter 233 Section 061 - 1998 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

Antisemitic Incidents Hit 42-Year High Across U.S. In 2021, ADL Report Says

While Israel and Hamas battled in 2021, antisemitic incidents in the U.S. increased, as did the proportion of antisemitic harassment referencing Israel and Zionism, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

www.forbes.com

There’s nothing Woke about teaching something that has really happened and had a profound impact on the world. Who doesn’t want to teach this? Holocaust deniers?

 

[Bowlmania]

Yes. In fact, Florida actually expanded on the above provision in 2020 (signed by Desantis) by adding the provisions in bold:

(g)1. The history of the Holocaust (1933-1945), the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions, including the policy, definition, and historical and current examples of anti-Semitism, as described in s. 1000.05(7), and the prevention of anti-Semitism. Each school district must annually certify and provide evidence to the department, in a manner prescribed by the department, that the requirements of this paragraph are met. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education’s Task Force on Holocaust Education or from any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations. The department may contract with any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations to develop training for instructional personnel and grade-appropriate classroom resources to support the developed curriculum.​

2. The second week in November shall be designated as “Holocaust Education Week” in this state in recognition that November is the anniversary of Kristallnacht, widely recognized as a precipitating event that led to the Holocaust.​

In 2019 (also signed by DeSantis I believe), they added the following to Florida law:

(7) A public K-20 educational institution must treat discrimination by students or employees or resulting from institutional policies motivated by anti-Semitic intent in an identical manner to discrimination motivated by race. For purposes of this section, the term “anti-Semitism” includes a certain perception of the Jewish people, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jewish people, rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism directed toward a person, his or her property, or toward Jewish community institutions or religious facilities.​

(a) Examples of anti-Semitism include:​

1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews, often in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.​

2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as a collective, especially, but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.​

3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, the State of Israel, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.​

4. Accusing Jews as a people or the State of Israel of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.​

5. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interest of their own nations.​

(b) Examples of anti-Semitism related to Israel include:​

1. Demonizing Israel by using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism to characterize Israel or Israelis, drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, or blaming Israel for all inter-religious or political tensions.​

2. Applying a double standard to Israel by requiring behavior of Israel that is not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation or focusing peace or human rights investigations only on Israel.​

3. Delegitimizing Israel by denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination and denying Israel the right to exist.​

However, criticism of Israel that is similar to criticism toward any other country may not be regarded as anti-Semitic.​

(c) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, or the State Constitution. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to conflict with federal or state discrimination laws.​

(8) A person aggrieved by a violation of this section or a violation of a rule adopted under this section has a right of action for such equitable relief as the court may determine. The court may also award reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs to a prevailing party.​

Thanks. I wasn't aware of the supplemental language.

 

[Bowlmania]

Who doesn’t want to teach this? Holocaust deniers?

Yes. Holocaust deniers. Antisemites (who are often Holocaust deniers). Probably the guy who laughed at Noodle's post. Lots of people.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Yes. In fact, Florida actually expanded on the above provision in 2020 (signed by Desantis) by adding the provisions in bold:

(g)1. The history of the Holocaust (1933-1945), the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions, including the policy, definition, and historical and current examples of anti-Semitism, as described in s. 1000.05(7), and the prevention of anti-Semitism. Each school district must annually certify and provide evidence to the department, in a manner prescribed by the department, that the requirements of this paragraph are met. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education’s Task Force on Holocaust Education or from any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations. The department may contract with any state or nationally recognized Holocaust educational organizations to develop training for instructional personnel and grade-appropriate classroom resources to support the developed curriculum.​

2. The second week in November shall be designated as “Holocaust Education Week” in this state in recognition that November is the anniversary of Kristallnacht, widely recognized as a precipitating event that led to the Holocaust.​

In 2019 (also signed by DeSantis I believe), they added the following to Florida law:

(7) A public K-20 educational institution must treat discrimination by students or employees or resulting from institutional policies motivated by anti-Semitic intent in an identical manner to discrimination motivated by race. For purposes of this section, the term “anti-Semitism” includes a certain perception of the Jewish people, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jewish people, rhetorical and physical manifestations of anti-Semitism directed toward a person, his or her property, or toward Jewish community institutions or religious facilities.​

(a) Examples of anti-Semitism include:​

1. Calling for, aiding, or justifying the killing or harming of Jews, often in the name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.​

2. Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as a collective, especially, but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.​

3. Accusing Jews as a people of being responsible for real or imagined wrongdoing committed by a single Jewish person or group, the State of Israel, or even for acts committed by non-Jews.​

4. Accusing Jews as a people or the State of Israel of inventing or exaggerating the Holocaust.​

5. Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interest of their own nations.​

(b) Examples of anti-Semitism related to Israel include:​

1. Demonizing Israel by using the symbols and images associated with classic anti-Semitism to characterize Israel or Israelis, drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis, or blaming Israel for all inter-religious or political tensions.​

2. Applying a double standard to Israel by requiring behavior of Israel that is not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation or focusing peace or human rights investigations only on Israel.​

3. Delegitimizing Israel by denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination and denying Israel the right to exist.​

However, criticism of Israel that is similar to criticism toward any other country may not be regarded as anti-Semitic.​

(c) Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to diminish or infringe upon any right protected under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, or the State Constitution. Nothing in this subsection shall be construed to conflict with federal or state discrimination laws.​

(8) A person aggrieved by a violation of this section or a violation of a rule adopted under this section has a right of action for such equitable relief as the court may determine. The court may also award reasonable attorney’s fees and court costs to a prevailing party.​

Wasn't that more about Israel and the BDS hullabaloo?

 

[GuyDatHoo]

Yes. Holocaust deniers. Antisemites (who are often Holocaust deniers). Probably the guy who laughed at Noodle's post. Lots of people.

Don’t get it twisted friend. The laugh was on Noodles post but it was directed at you. Here you are thinking you’re just going to pop open the lap top and do some lazy brow beating of Floridas Republican leadership. And in the second post you are shown to be a complete fool.

Florida is has the third highest Jewish population in the country, for what possible reason do you think they would ignore the holocaust in school other than your partisan blindness?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Yes. Holocaust deniers. Antisemites (who are often Holocaust deniers). Probably the guy who laughed at Noodle's post. Lots of people.

Yeah I’m pretty sure that’s an extremely small population. Not sure what windmill you’re tilting at here.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Tomorrow is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

I'm linking Florida legislation that was passed in the '90s, requiring public schools to provide instruction on "the history of the Holocaust, the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions."

Would similarly worded legislation have a chance of enactment today in Florida and many other states? Too "woke?" Are laws like this at risk of being repealed?

A Holocaust survivor spoke to my kids and classmates in their (not Florida) public school a few years back. The discussion left an enormous impression on my Christian kids, and that's a good thing. As evidenced by my second link, this topic needs to be part of the national discourse, perhaps now more than ever.

Chapter 233 Section 061 - 1998 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

Antisemitic Incidents Hit 42-Year High Across U.S. In 2021, ADL Report Says

While Israel and Hamas battled in 2021, antisemitic incidents in the U.S. increased, as did the proportion of antisemitic harassment referencing Israel and Zionism, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

www.forbes.com

The Holocaust is an important event that should be covered in every K-12 education, of course. Is there anywhere where it is not?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

^^^Mas-sa's Home School Academy?

 

[Bowlmania]

Don’t get it twisted friend. The laugh was on Noodles post but it was directed at you. Here you are thinking you’re just going to pop open the lap top and do some lazy brow beating of Floridas Republican leadership. And in the second post you are shown to be a complete fool.

Florida is has the third highest Jewish population in the country, for what possible reason do you think they would ignore the holocaust in school other than your partisan blindness?

Your reaction to someone else's post is intended to be a reaction to mine, and I'm the fool? And I'm suggesting Florida is on the verge of ignoring the Holocaust in public schools? And I'm browbeating Florida's Republican leadership with my thread? "Browbeat" should not be in your vocabulary because you don't know what it means.

The questions I posed in the second paragraph of my first post are legitimate ones. I'll answer the first question. There's not a chance in hell that "understanding the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping," "for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society," and "for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions" would appear in a bill in Florida, pertaining to anything (and a number of other states) in 2022. Sorry if that triggers you.

 

[Bowlmania]

^^^Mas-sa's Home School Academy?

Mas isn't the only anti-Semite here, although he's certainly the most vocal.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Tomorrow is Holocaust Remembrance Day.

I'm linking Florida legislation that was passed in the '90s, requiring public schools to provide instruction on "the history of the Holocaust, the systematic, planned annihilation of European Jews and other groups by Nazi Germany, a watershed event in the history of humanity, to be taught in a manner that leads to an investigation of human behavior, an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping, and an examination of what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions."

Would similarly worded legislation have a chance of enactment today in Florida and many other states? Too "woke?" Are laws like this at risk of being repealed?

A Holocaust survivor spoke to my kids and classmates in their (not Florida) public school a few years back. The discussion left an enormous impression on my Christian kids, and that's a good thing. As evidenced by my second link, this topic needs to be part of the national discourse, perhaps now more than ever.

Chapter 233 Section 061 - 1998 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

www.flsenate.gov

Antisemitic Incidents Hit 42-Year High Across U.S. In 2021, ADL Report Says

While Israel and Hamas battled in 2021, antisemitic incidents in the U.S. increased, as did the proportion of antisemitic harassment referencing Israel and Zionism, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

www.forbes.com

Teaching kids not to kill and teaching kids about all forms of sexuality are not the same thing.

Teaching middle school and high school kids about either is also way different than teaching K-3 kids that literally everybody these in their life may not be what they appear.

"Mommy, is daddy a man or a woman?" "Stop using words like mommy you little Nazi."



(I'd call it a false equivalency, but I'm trying to dumb it down for the True Lefty Loons.)

 

[Bowlmania]

Teaching kids not to kill and teaching kids about all forms of sexuality are not the same thing.

Teaching middle school and high school kids about either is also way different than teaching K-3 kids that literally everybody these in their life may not be what they appear.

"Mommy, is daddy a man or a woman?" "Stop using words like mommy you little Nazi."



(I'd call it a false equivalency, but I'm trying to dumb it down for the True Lefty Loons.)

Again, I was focusing on the language that I put in bold, but I wouldn't expect you to pick up on that.

 

[Noodle]

There's not a chance in hell that "understanding the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping," "for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society," and "for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions" would appear in a bill in Florida, pertaining to anything (and a number of other states) in 2022. Sorry if that triggers you.

How about this, passed in 2021 in Florida (and signed by DeSantis):

(4) TRAINING.—The pilot programs shall provide training to participating health care practitioners and other perinatal professionals on all of the following:
(a) Implicit and explicit biases, racism, and discrimination in the provision of maternity care and how to eliminate these barriers to accessing adequate and competent maternity care.

 

[Noodle]

The questions I posed in the second paragraph of my first post are legitimate ones. I'll answer the first question. There's not a chance in hell that "understanding the ramifications of prejudice, racism and stereotyping," "for the purposes of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society," and "for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions" would appear in a bill in Florida, pertaining to anything (and a number of other states) in 2022. Sorry if that triggers you.

Or, how about the so-called "Anti-Woke Act" signed into law by DeSantis last week. Sure, it has its problems. But that bill made the exact additions you quote above with respect to the required instruction on African American history. Here are the changes to Florida law made last week regarding educational instruction:

The history of African Americans, including the history of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to the development of slavery, the passage to America, the enslavement experience, abolition, and the history and contributions of African Americans of the African diaspora to society. Students shall develop an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping on individual freedoms, and examine what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purpose of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions. Instruction shall include the roles and contributions of individuals from all walks of life and their endeavors to learn and thrive throughout history as artists, scientists, educators, businesspeople, influential thinkers, members of the faith community, and political and governmental leaders and the courageous steps they took to fulfill the promise of democracy and unite the nation. Instructional materials shall include the vital contributions of African Americans to build and strengthen American society and celebrate the inspirational stories of African Americans who prospered, even in the most difficult circumstances. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the individual freedoms of persons have been infringed by slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, as well as topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination and how recognition of these freedoms has overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles enumerated in subsection (3) or the state academic standards. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education's African American History Task Force.​

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Or, how about the so-called "Anti-Woke Act" signed into law by DeSantis last week. Sure, it has its problems. But that bill made the exact additions you quote above with respect to the required instruction on African American history. Here are the changes to Florida law made last week regarding educational instruction:

The history of African Americans, including the history of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to the development of slavery, the passage to America, the enslavement experience, abolition, and the history and contributions of African Americans of the African diaspora to society. Students shall develop an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping on individual freedoms, and examine what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purpose of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions. Instruction shall include the roles and contributions of individuals from all walks of life and their endeavors to learn and thrive throughout history as artists, scientists, educators, businesspeople, influential thinkers, members of the faith community, and political and governmental leaders and the courageous steps they took to fulfill the promise of democracy and unite the nation. Instructional materials shall include the vital contributions of African Americans to build and strengthen American society and celebrate the inspirational stories of African Americans who prospered, even in the most difficult circumstances. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the individual freedoms of persons have been infringed by slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, as well as topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination and how recognition of these freedoms has overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles enumerated in subsection (3) or the state academic standards. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education's African American History Task Force.​

I’m assuming CNN did not quote that part?

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Or, how about the so-called "Anti-Woke Act" signed into law by DeSantis last week. Sure, it has its problems. But that bill made the exact additions you quote above with respect to the required instruction on African American history. Here are the changes to Florida law made last week regarding educational instruction:

The history of African Americans, including the history of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to the development of slavery, the passage to America, the enslavement experience, abolition, and the history and contributions of African Americans of the African diaspora to society. Students shall develop an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping on individual freedoms, and examine what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purpose of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions. Instruction shall include the roles and contributions of individuals from all walks of life and their endeavors to learn and thrive throughout history as artists, scientists, educators, businesspeople, influential thinkers, members of the faith community, and political and governmental leaders and the courageous steps they took to fulfill the promise of democracy and unite the nation. Instructional materials shall include the vital contributions of African Americans to build and strengthen American society and celebrate the inspirational stories of African Americans who prospered, even in the most difficult circumstances. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the individual freedoms of persons have been infringed by slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, as well as topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination and how recognition of these freedoms has overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles enumerated in subsection (3) or the state academic standards. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education's African American History Task Force.​

Those seem like good instructional goals. Bowlmania, do you agree?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Or, how about the so-called "Anti-Woke Act" signed into law by DeSantis last week. Sure, it has its problems. But that bill made the exact additions you quote above with respect to the required instruction on African American history. Here are the changes to Florida law made last week regarding educational instruction:

The history of African Americans, including the history of African peoples before the political conflicts that led to the development of slavery, the passage to America, the enslavement experience, abolition, and the history and contributions of African Americans of the African diaspora to society. Students shall develop an understanding of the ramifications of prejudice, racism, and stereotyping on individual freedoms, and examine what it means to be a responsible and respectful person, for the purpose of encouraging tolerance of diversity in a pluralistic society and for nurturing and protecting democratic values and institutions. Instruction shall include the roles and contributions of individuals from all walks of life and their endeavors to learn and thrive throughout history as artists, scientists, educators, businesspeople, influential thinkers, members of the faith community, and political and governmental leaders and the courageous steps they took to fulfill the promise of democracy and unite the nation. Instructional materials shall include the vital contributions of African Americans to build and strengthen American society and celebrate the inspirational stories of African Americans who prospered, even in the most difficult circumstances. Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the individual freedoms of persons have been infringed by slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, as well as topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination and how recognition of these freedoms has overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles enumerated in subsection (3) or the state academic standards. The department shall prepare and offer standards and curriculum for the instruction required by this paragraph and may seek input from the Commissioner of Education's African American History Task Force.​

That’s precisely what should be taught and enforced. That’s not CRT.

 

[Noodle]

Those seem like good instructional goals. Bowlmania, do you agree?

I think the devil is in the details, particularly with respect to the "standards and curriculum" that the state dep't of education is to prepare. Also, I think there are some other things in the bill, especially when combined with all of the hype surrounding it, that may create a rather toxic environment for teachers trying to teach what's required of them without running a foul of some of the other provisions in the bill:

The Legislature acknowledges the fundamental truth that all persons are equal before the law and have inalienable rights. Accordingly, instruction and supporting materials on the topics enumerated in this section must be consistent with the following principles of individual freedom:​

​

(a) No person is inherently racist, sexist, or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously, solely by virtue of his or her race or sex.​

​

(b) No race is inherently superior to another race.​

​

(c) No person should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment solely or partly on the basis of race, color, national origin, religion, disability, or sex.​

​

(d) Meritocracy or traits such as a hard work ethic are not racist but fundamental to the right to pursue happiness and be rewarded for industry.​

​

(e) A person, by virtue of his or her race or sex, does not bear responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.​

​

(f) A person should not be instructed that he or she must feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.​

​

Instructional personnel may facilitate discussions and use curricula to address, in an age-appropriate manner, how the freedoms of persons have been infringed by sexism, slavery, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, including topics relating to the enactment and enforcement of laws resulting in sexism, racial oppression, racial segregation, and racial discrimination, including how recognition of these freedoms have overturned these unjust laws. However, classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view inconsistent with the principles of this subsection or state academic standards.​

​

 

[Noodle]

That’s precisely what should be taught and enforced. That’s not CRT.

Correct. But the other stuff in the bill (see my post directly above) is going to create problems when little Suzie's parents think that her homework of writing a paper about the long-term effects of slavery crosses some imaginary line because she might feel psychological distress just thinking about something that happened a long time ago. Even though little Suzie is 17. Many will simply take the path of least resistance.

Can a high school teacher in Florida teach that the primary (by far) cause of the Civil War was preserving the institution of slavery, and that the claim it was all about "states' rights" is a canard? Or, would that be indoctrinating or persuading students to a particular point of view? And, don't you think the answer is going to depend on the school - i.e., whether parents that school complain?

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Correct. But the other stuff in the bill (see my post directly above) is going to create problems when little Suzie's parents think that her homework of writing a paper about the long-term effects of slavery crosses some imaginary line because she might feel psychological distress just thinking about something that happened a long time ago. Even though little Suzie is 17. Many will simply take the path of least resistance.

Can a high school teacher in Florida teach that the primary (by far) cause of the Civil War was preserving the institution of slavery, and that the claim it was all about "states' rights" is a canard? Or, would that be indoctrinating or persuading students to a particular point of view? And, don't you think the answer is going to depend on the school - i.e., whether parents that school complain?

Why cant they teach the real story - that many people - north snd south - believed states had the right to “unjoin” the Union if they chose, and that Southern states “chose” to unjoin because they wanted to preserve slavery, and knew the efforts to keep slavery out of new western territories and states would eventually result in Congressional numbers that would allow the Union to “outlaw” slavery?

The answer has always been “states rights in favor of slavery.” The two are not mutually exclusive.

US Grant and his pals countered that the right to secede never belonged to any state but the original 13, and ended when the Constitution was ratified, and/or when new states were created through the collective “blood and treasure” of the collective Union.

All K-3 children should be required to read the Shelby Foote trilogy and the Grant autobiography.

 

[Noodle]

Why cant they teach the real story - that many people - north snd south - believed states had the right to “unjoin” the Union if they chose, and that Southern states “chose” to unjoin because they wanted to preserve slavery, and knew the efforts to keep slavery out of new western territories and states would eventually result in Congressional numbers that would allow the Union to “outlaw” slavery?

The answer has always been “states rights in favor of slavery.” The two are mutually exclusive.

US Grant and his pals countered that the right to secede never belonged to any state but the original 13, and ended when the Constitution was ratified, and/or when new states were created through the collective “blood and treasure” of the collective Union.

All K-3 children should be required to read the Shelby Foote trilogy and the Grant autobiography.

The "real story"? It was about "states rights in favor of slavery"? All you've done is try to dress up the fact that the Civil War started because the southern states wanted to preserve slavery. Period. Sure, they knew they had to leave the Union in order to do so. But so what? That does not change the fact that the Civil War was ultimately about the South wanting to preserve slavery. The South didn't leave so they would then have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to keep slavery.

You put a dress on a pig and it's still a pig.

As for children K-3 reading Shelby Foote, you can't be serious. Shelby Foote put lipstick, high heels, and a dress on that pig.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Why cant they teach the real story - that many people - north snd south - believed states had the right to “unjoin” the Union if they chose, and that Southern states “chose” to unjoin because they wanted to preserve slavery, and knew the efforts to keep slavery out of new western territories and states would eventually result in Congressional numbers that would allow the Union to “outlaw” slavery?

The answer has always been “states rights in favor of slavery.” The two are mutually exclusive.

US Grant and his pals countered that the right to secede never belonged to any state but the original 13, and ended when the Constitution was ratified, and/or when new states were created through the collective “blood and treasure” of the collective Union.

All K-3 children should be required to read the Shelby Foote trilogy and the Grant autobiography.

Foote had a southern bias, pretty much admitted it. Watching Burns would be better, or reading McPherson.

And I have read Foote and enjoyed it. I heard him on CSPAN suggest historians should write more like novelists to make more people want to read history. I believe he was correct.

 

[Noodle]

Foote had a southern bias, pretty much admitted it. Watching Burns would be better, or reading McPherson.

And I have read Foote and enjoyed it. I heard him on CSPAN suggest historians should write more like novelists to make more people want to read history. I believe he was correct.

I agree he's a good writer, and his Civil War work is significant. But for K-3 (or even 4-8)? Absurd. Foote not only had a southern bias, he actively embraced much of the Lost Cause garbage.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I agree he's a good writer, and his Civil War work is significant. But for K-3 (or even 4-8)? Absurd. Foote not only had a southern bias, he actively embraced much of the Lost Cause garbage.

Yep, I would not use Foote. Not to mention the three books would be an entire year's reading. Battle Cry of Freedom covers the Mexican-American War through Appomattox and offers a more complete view. But I will not deny that McPherson is pro-Union.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Foote had a southern bias, pretty much admitted it. Watching Burns would be better, or reading McPherson.

And I have read Foote and enjoyed it. I heard him on CSPAN suggest historians should write more like novelists to make more people want to read history. I believe he was correct.

I agree he's a good writer, and his Civil War work is significant. But for K-3 (or even 4-8)? Absurd. Foote not only had a southern bias, he actively embraced much of the Lost Cause garbage.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Correct. But the other stuff in the bill (see my post directly above) is going to create problems when little Suzie's parents think that her homework of writing a paper about the long-term effects of slavery crosses some imaginary line because she might feel psychological distress just thinking about something that happened a long time ago. Even though little Suzie is 17. Many will simply take the path of least resistance.

Can a high school teacher in Florida teach that the primary (by far) cause of the Civil War was preserving the institution of slavery, and that the claim it was all about "states' rights" is a canard? Or, would that be indoctrinating or persuading students to a particular point of view? And, don't you think the answer is going to depend on the school - i.e., whether parents that school complain?

It’s fair to teach that many non-slave owners in the South were fighting for states’ rights in so far as the cannon fodder in all wars fights for whatever it is they think they’re fighting for. But the reality is that it was fought over slavery via the aristocrats.

Teaching multi-dimensional history is something of which I’m a huge fan. Teaching about key events (eg The Civil War) from the perspectives of plantation owners, confederates and common soldiers would imbue into students that history, and more importantly truth, is complicated and subjective based on who you were and your viewpoint.

 

[Noodle]

Wait, what? Which part?

 

[iuwclurker]

historians should write more like novelists to make more people want to read history.

and use audiovisual materials to teach math…

 

[Noodle]

and use audiovisual materials to teach math…

View embedded media

Genius.

 

[Noodle]

Thought this news story was apropos. I had the pleasure and honor of working on a small piece of this center/museum.

'This is how you're going to change the world': Using Holocaust education to end bullying

The Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust & Humanity Center is more than a museum about the past. It's part of the solution to student bullying.

www.cincinnati.com

 

[IUCrazy2]

You guys need to go back and read bullet point f in Noodles post up above. The "problem" Noodle brought up does not exist. The very first sentence tells you why.

(f) A person should not be instructed that he or she must feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.

If a child is given a paper to write about slavery and feels guilt, anguish, or some other psychological distress because the topic bothers them, then there is no problem. The only problem arises when the teacher INSTRUCTS them that they should feel guilty for this thing that they had no part in. AKA, leave your Robin Diangelo bullshit at the door teacher, tell them what actually happened, and let the kids decide for themselves what they should do with that information.

That is really all that parents are asking. Stop having an authority figure editorialize based on their political leanings. One can believe that slavery and Jim Crow were wrong and that Ibram Kendi and Robin Diangelo are quacks. Two of those things belong in a classroom and 2 don't. The law is pretty clear on which are not allowed in grade school. Feel free to have your antiracism, CRT, and CRT adjacent (intersectionality) discussions in college.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

You guys need to go back and read bullet point f in Noodles post up above. The "problem" Noodle brought up does not exist. The very first sentence tells you why.

(f) A person should not be instructed that he or she must feel guilt, anguish, or other forms of psychological distress for actions, in which he or she played no part, committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex.

If a child is given a paper to write about slavery and feels guilt, anguish, or some other psychological distress because the topic bothers them, then there is no problem. The only problem arises when the teacher INSTRUCTS them that they should feel guilty for this thing that they had no part in. AKA, leave your Robin Diangelo bullshit at the door teacher, tell them what actually happened, and let the kids decide for themselves what they should do with that information.

That is really all that parents are asking. Stop having an authority figure editorialize based on their political leanings. One can believe that slavery and Jim Crow were wrong and that Ibram Kendi and Robin Diangelo are quacks. Two of those things belong in a classroom and 2 don't. The law is pretty clear on which are not allowed in grade school. Feel free to have your antiracism, CRT, and CRT adjacent (intersectionality) discussions in college.

As a corollary, I'd suggest that the term Whiteness and the way it is used by the antiracism crowd should not be used in a public K-12 school because of the likelihood that it will violate section (f) above.

 

[outside shooter]

Florida is still trying to decide if a principal being a Holocaust denier is a bad thing.

He made national headlines last year for refusing to say the Holocaust was a “factual, historical event” and insisted that "all sides" of such "controversial topics" should be discussed.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/education/article246894309.html#storylink=cpy