My worst fears about Woodson and this team have been realized. Simply put, we just do not have enough talent to be better than mediocre in the Big Ten. And yes, I include Trace Jackson Davis in that assessment as he still has no outside shot, still cannot shoot free throws and disappears in crunch time much like he did yesterday. Leal and Lander are jokes and Xavier is selfish, and has no shot along with being a bit of a thug. You don't ever hit a guy in the groin like he did yesterday. Kopp and Stewart never make a shot if they are guarded and rarely make one if they are open. I would start Geronimo and Bates who seem to have some heart and some potential. I think Woodson is in over his head. but no he does not deserve firing. I also sense his total frustration as nobody on the team is improving. Compound that with the reality that plays after times out never work and we fall apart at crunch times in winnable games. And worst of all is that no help is coming. Woodson is 63 and is used to coaching NBA guys with tons of talent. He doesn't have that at IU where he is expected to recruit and improve his players. Who has improved this year? I ask the board again to assess where we might be had we not fired Mike Davis. I would rather have Davis, a national championship game, Bracey Wright, Marshall Strickland and DJ White instead of Kelvin Sampson, Dan Dakich, Tom Crean. Archie Miller, Romeo, Langford, Leal, and Lander. Woodson is a victim here and has no chance since we have fallen too far to ever get up again.
The curse of mediocrity.
- Thread starter Rotonda Jim
- Start date
The last two hires were both baffling to me. Even more so the Woodson one given he had no college experience. But that's where this all star coaching staff was supposed to help. Does he listen to them? No idea. If woodson fails it will be easy for us to say why it was a bad hire. Let's hope he doesn't fail cause I think the program would be totally dead if that happens.
As far as talent we have talent they just don't know how to win period. Wisconsin does not have tons of talent but knows how to run a system and knows how to win. We don't.
Unfortunately Davis was starting to tank…. Had we not made the 2002 final, Davis wouldn’t have lasted 6 years and we’d still be a top destination job. The Sampson hiring destroyed the program because of what happened afterward
I don't think it destroyed the program cause crean had some success but hiring archie certainly was a big dagger to the program and really set us back.
You do realize that MD took us to the NC (and that was in his 2nd yr, with Coverdale, JJ, and a lot of guys that RMK never believed in or played much) and on a 400K budget.His results after that were similar to RMK's final years, but everybody, myself included, wanted more NC appearances. Guess we can pine away for those 6 seeds and good recruiting he did, I'd never believe it at the time, like why the hell do we ever lose to MSU, or why did we used to have an attitude towards UNC or Duke or UK or PU or anybody, but whatever you may think about him, he was clean and probably deserved more time. No one has preserved those expectation the way MD did. Crean had his time, AM and Sampson burnt there's for different reasons. I don't think it would be a huge big deal to swap Davis for Woodson, if Woodson wants out after next year. MD did recruit, or could be role reversal with MD recruiting again and Fife learning on the job from him and Matta. I would not be unhappy at all to see that swap of some sort, we need talented players and MD did deliver them other than May, Connelly and Oden ... I think that's what got him fired, too many 6 seeds and 20-22 win seasons and I blame myself as being part of the crowd that thought we could do better then. Should have stuck with him and he would be the clean Sampson we need by now
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JHS, Gunn, and Banks are all good help. For the 1,000,000th time you can't judge a coach by his first year, let alone one that hasn't been finished yet. Hell, most people wanted to fire/hire someone else before the Purdue game. Woodson beat Purdue, he must be doing something right.
Don’t want Woody gone, but our lack of in season progress is a red flag
I think it's a red flag if it continues into next year, similar to Crean and AMs problems with turnovers.
Keep in mind:
Mike Davis went 15-14, then 14-15, while proceeding to lose Oden Conley and May.
Mike Davis went 15-14, then 14-15, while proceeding to lose Oden Conley and May.
Archie Miller was the dagger to the program. Had Miller been even close to adequate, we wouldn’t be here.
It was some injuries to DJ, Bracey, and at the end he was trying to put it all back together again, but they chased him out of the building. We made the tourney that year, just didn't live up to glory year expectations ... well, look where we are now, plenty of IN recruits and haven't sniffed the tourney for years, and what a good story would it be to bring him back.
He is a genuinely nice guy just overwhelmed by racist stuff and talk for him to be axed for Alford every year he didn't out perform. He's seasoned now, just doesn't have a team like he could recruit to IU, but I bet he could still get 'em if he we're given a second chance,
We had the next Bobby and ruined it, I'm afraid he just needed more time and got far less after an NC appearance on B10 low salary, even after they gave him a bump for that. Sad, I think it's a shame they don't offer him some position because if anybody earned it, it would be him. Plus, he and Fife are well acquainted, makes sense. If Woody has to go and they're not comfortable with Fife or Matta, it has to be him or as top asst. to Fife, which might be all he'd want to do, not be the face of it.
Correct 100%. Complete waste of four years. We are basically back to creans last year cause we fired crean to hire someone worse. Typical Fred Glass.
Definitely correct, I think if he even tries to get back into coaching, they will investigate him for shady practices under his scumbag brother first, which wouldn't look good, but Geez, if you can't even cheat right, and I might vomit if we we're cheating under his tenure of the program, making 3.5$. Just pay for my booze and weed, I could coach them on Zoom and show them a triangle offense and it'd be better, that's the biggest problem I have with it ... play to your roster, which he doesn't have much, granted
Yep forgot about his brother. Archie is probably pretty toxic right now. Maybe lower D1 or D2 but that's about it for him. Fred's legacy.
This may he the most revisonist bunch of bs I've ever read on this forum in 20 years. Remember when he called in sick? In his own words, he admitted he was in over his head. Sorry, Ms. Davis.
#wewerethe4thseed
Saw this on another board from a connected poster. Take it for what it's worth but sounded like fife is frustrated and may not even be back next year. Who knows but sounds like woodson is taking most of his advice from non assistants.
assistants still come up with the game plan, then Woody takes that to the people he really trust the consultants and the make all final decisions.
His program & he’s running it how he feels comfortable. Assistants still recruit
assistants still come up with the game plan, then Woody takes that to the people he really trust the consultants and the make all final decisions.
His program & he’s running it how he feels comfortable. Assistants still recruit
Yeah.
But Woodson so far hasn't been a home run hire either..
Sure he gets a one season pass..
He's short term.imo .Unless he pulls some 24 win season out of the blue..
He has to be great in the portal for next season..Not good .
But great ...
Because why would you want to subject yourself a bunch of chants, toned down for you, maybe in the NIT? I remember it and I think he did the right thing expected of winning or losing regardless of you and you'd rather forfeit the game to go on spring break?
Let's turn it around, why would your basketball team turn down a home game in the NIT because they knew the crowd abuse towards the coach would be so severe from basically losing out again. Hmm try again?
That same guy had everyone believing Brad Stevens was a done deal. Then tried to pretend he was still right somehow after it fell apart in his face. I’d take it with a few grains of salt.
What is the point of spending ten seconds of thought on that in 2022? Do you have a time machine?
Let's stop talking about the portal like it's some sort of new star trek technology that we have and UK doesn't? Anything is damaged, or, didn't get along with their ex-coach, teammates, or whatever the f ever. If we can't recruit talent, we got problems! We have the promise of PT as I see it, go get it !
Yeah, f you, maybe you weren't African American or Jewish in 2005, when you're a nice man and they were just happy with you for one more year, it was the racist shit, and I think he didn't want any part of that, and I don't blame him
I agree with go-IU, that portal is far from a ideal place to get a team from, if you expect to compete with the top of the BIG. This year you can pretty much write off. Woodson’s players won’t really ”arrive” until their sophomore year. You have to build a team through recruiting. Every once in a while, you can pull a piece out of the portal, but not often. That means you won’t really know what you have until the 2023-2024 season.
He did and like I said it might be bs. He is sometimes right and sometimes wrong.
Cmon, Mike Davis got fired by UAB for goodness sake. He's getting killed at Detroit Mercy in the Horizon league of all things. Nice guy but talk about over his head...
I'm sure he was grateful to have you right by his side, Ms. Davis.
Spot on
This year was going to be a bridge year regardless of who was hired...Stevens, Woodson or Jesus Christ.
I like the recruits and as long as he gets a big man in the portal we will see progress next year.
who is said big man in portal??? I know this is a new age, but it still seems that recruiting HS kids will provide for much more consistency to establish a program where we know we'll be competitive year after year. This big man in the portal stuff still seems like fantasizing to me.
I think Mike Davis is a very good man. He admitted himself that he was over his head. Who can blame him? He had never been a head coach before and suddenly is thrust into the spotlight. I would say none of us would do 1/4 as good as him.
of course I remember how MD took us to the promised land... almost. That year was a blast. Was in the GA dome for the entire FF. But Shaka Smart also led VCU to the FF. George Mason made a FF. A very very average Wisconsin team made the FF in 2000. UConn won the NC with a very average team over Butler. The list goes on and on. I hold no ill will toward Davis. He was given a program which at the time was a blessing and a curse. The man who follows THE MAN is likely always to fail (sorry, Hubert Davis). Hopefully Scheyer will fail miserably!! But what has MD done since 2006 anywhere that makes you think we could be successful at IU now???
What do you know about the portal that's relatively new saying every once in a while? I love our hire, but he certainly may have a learning curve as well. He has some immediate impact players coming in to help what looks like poor talent everywhere.I agree with go-IU, that portal is far from a ideal place to get a team from, if you expect to compete with the top of the BIG. This year you can pretty much write off. Woodson’s players won’t really ”arrive” until their sophomore year. You have to build a team through recruiting. Every once in a while, you can pull a piece out of the portal, but not often. That means you won’t really know what you have until the 2023-2024 season.
I have been defending MD for almost fifteen years. I am glad that I finally found someone on this site who agrees a little. Yes, MD did not get Conley and Oden but I recall how Conley's dad, an AAU guy, seemed to want total control over where his son would do and that control included selling both kids as a tandem. I never viewed that as a good thing and thought Conley senior was playing the role of a professional agent. Yes Conley did well but Oden's personal problems and injuries turned him into a bust. I preferred DJ White who, when healthy, was a terrific Hoosier player.
He took Birmingham and Texas Southern to four or five NCAA tournaments from leagues that usually send only one team. So yes, I view that as success.
But he was hurt by injuries to DJ White. He then turned it around and went 19-12 his last year. His winning percentage was almost identical to Knight's in Bobby's last five or six seasons. That is when the drop off began to be noticeable.
Portal is a bridging tool and not all the players are "damaged". Armaan Franklin is not damaged, PStew is not (he may not be a starter in the BIG but he is not "damaged") , Kopp is not "damaged". If Lander jumps...he is not "damaged", he is just in over his head at IU.
Portal is not the ideal way to build a roster...recruiting kids that want to play for IU that fit the culture is and Woody has made some good strides in that direction in a short time.
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