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Russia

Spartans9312

Hall of Famer
Nov 11, 2004
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President Obama: “Of course not. I seek to reset relations with Russia because I believe that Americans and Russians have many common interests. Interests that our governments recently have not pursued as actively as we could have. For instance, I believe that Americans and Russians both would benefit from fewer nuclear weapons in the world, greater control over nuclear materials around the world, a defeat of extremist elements in Afghanistan and Pakistan, an Iran that produces nuclear energy but not nuclear weapons and instead returns to the negotiating table. I also believe that Americans and Russians have a common interest in the development of rule of rule, the strengthening of democracy, and the protection of human rights.”

“As I said in my inaugural address, ‘To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.’ I then emphasized in my Cairo speech that ‘I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights.’ These are ideas embraced by your president and your people. I agree with President Medvedev when he said that ‘Freedom is better than the absence of freedom.’ So, I see no reason why we cannot aspire together to strengthen democracy, human rights, and the rule of law as part of our ‘reset’.”

Is President Trump falling into the same trap as President Obama?

That of being naive
 

President Obama: “Of course not. I seek to reset relations with Russia because I believe that Americans and Russians have many common interests. Interests that our governments recently have not pursued as actively as we could have. For instance, I believe that Americans and Russians both would benefit from fewer nuclear weapons in the world, greater control over nuclear materials around the world, a defeat of extremist elements in Afghanistan and Pakistan, an Iran that produces nuclear energy but not nuclear weapons and instead returns to the negotiating table. I also believe that Americans and Russians have a common interest in the development of rule of rule, the strengthening of democracy, and the protection of human rights.”

“As I said in my inaugural address, ‘To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.’ I then emphasized in my Cairo speech that ‘I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights.’ These are ideas embraced by your president and your people. I agree with President Medvedev when he said that ‘Freedom is better than the absence of freedom.’ So, I see no reason why we cannot aspire together to strengthen democracy, human rights, and the rule of law as part of our ‘reset’.”

Is President Trump falling into the same trap as President Obama?
Annexation of Crimea was a direct response to Maidan.

As long as Trump doesn’t orchestrate any political revolutions he should be all clear.
 

President Obama: “Of course not. I seek to reset relations with Russia because I believe that Americans and Russians have many common interests. Interests that our governments recently have not pursued as actively as we could have. For instance, I believe that Americans and Russians both would benefit from fewer nuclear weapons in the world, greater control over nuclear materials around the world, a defeat of extremist elements in Afghanistan and Pakistan, an Iran that produces nuclear energy but not nuclear weapons and instead returns to the negotiating table. I also believe that Americans and Russians have a common interest in the development of rule of rule, the strengthening of democracy, and the protection of human rights.”

“As I said in my inaugural address, ‘To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.’ I then emphasized in my Cairo speech that ‘I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights.’ These are ideas embraced by your president and your people. I agree with President Medvedev when he said that ‘Freedom is better than the absence of freedom.’ So, I see no reason why we cannot aspire together to strengthen democracy, human rights, and the rule of law as part of our ‘reset’.”

Is President Trump falling into the same trap as President Obama?

That of being naive
I don't think Obama was naive as much as he was overly hopeful/optimistic.

I have no idea what Trump is doing.
 
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Annexation of Crimea was a direct response to Maidan.

As long as Trump doesn’t orchestrate any political revolutions he should be all clear.

“I looked the man in the eye. I found him very straightforward and trustworthy - I was able to get a sense of the soul”


“Our countries are embarked on a new relationship for the 21st century, founded on a commitment to the values of democracy, the free market, and the rule of law. The United States and Russia have overcome the legacy of the Cold War. Neither country regards the other as an enemy or threat. Aware of our responsibility to contribute to international security, we are determined to work together, and with other nations and international organizations, including the United Nations, to promote security, economic well-being, and a peaceful, prosperous, free world.”

“We support the building of a European-Atlantic community whole, free, and at peace, excluding no one, and respecting the independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity of all nations. To this end, the United States and Russia will work, together with NATO and other NATO members, to improve, strengthen, and enhance the relationship between NATO and Russia, with a view to developing new, effective mechanisms for consultation, cooperation, joint decision, and coordinated/joint action. We believe that these mechanisms should reflect the fact that the members of NATO and Russia are increasingly allied against terrorism, regional instability and other contemporary threats, and that the NATO-Russia relationship should therefore evolve accordingly. We also work to strengthen our cooperation in OSCE as a broadly representative, inclusive organization for conducting consultations, taking decisions, and working together in the region.”

Then came Georgia in 2008.
 
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I don't think Obama was naive as much as he was overly hopeful/optimistic.

I have no idea what Trump is doing.

Clinton tried to be soft with the Ruskies but did get that done…which was good. It said Russia and NATO were not enemies and that NATO would expand (I’ll be damned)


“NATO and Russia do not consider each other as adversaries. They share the goal of overcoming the vestiges of earlier confrontation and competition and of strengthening mutual trust and cooperation. The present Act reaffirms the determination of NATO and Russia to give concrete substance to their shared commitment to build a stable, peaceful and undivided Europe, whole and free, to the benefit of all its peoples. Making this commitment at the highest political level marks the beginning of a fundamentally new relationship between NATO and Russia. They intend to develop, on the basis of common interest, reciprocity and transparency a strong, stable and enduring partnership.”

“NATO has undertaken a historic transformation - - a process that will continue. In 1991 the Alliance revised its strategic doctrine to take account of the new security environment in Europe. Accordingly, NATO has radically reduced and continues the adaptation of its conventional and nuclear forces. While preserving the capability to meet the commitments undertaken in the Washington Treaty, NATO has expanded and will continue to expand its political functions, and taken on new missions of peacekeeping and crisis management in support of the United Nations and Cooperation in Europe, such as in Bosnia and Herzegovina, to address new security challenges in close association with other countries and international organisations. NATO is in the process of developing the European Security and Defence Identity within the Alliance. It will continue to develop a broad and dynamic pattern of cooperation with OSCE participating States in particular through the Partnership for Peace and is working with Partner countries on the initiative to establish a Euro-Atlantic Partnership Council. NATO member States have decided to examine NATO’s Strategic Concept to ensure that it is fully consistent with Europe’s new security situation and challenges.”

“Russia is continuing the building of a democratic society and the realisation of its political and economic transformation. It is developing the concept of its national security and revising its military doctrine to ensure that they are fully consistent with new security realities. Russia has carried out deep reductions in its armed forces, has withdrawn its forces on an unprecedented scale from the countries of Central and Eastern Europe and the Baltic countries and withdrawn all its nuclear weapons back to its own national territory. Russia is committed to further reducing its conventional and nuclear forces. It is actively participating in peacekeeping operations in support of the UN and the OSCE, as well as in crisis management in different areas of the world. Russia is contributing to the multinational forces in Bosnia and Herzegovina.”

The history is there for all to see
 
Putin has played American leaders for fools. Each is certain it will not happen to them.





Look what happens before each war. 4 different presidents.
 

President Obama: “Of course not. I seek to reset relations with Russia because I believe that Americans and Russians have many common interests. Interests that our governments recently have not pursued as actively as we could have. For instance, I believe that Americans and Russians both would benefit from fewer nuclear weapons in the world, greater control over nuclear materials around the world, a defeat of extremist elements in Afghanistan and Pakistan, an Iran that produces nuclear energy but not nuclear weapons and instead returns to the negotiating table. I also believe that Americans and Russians have a common interest in the development of rule of rule, the strengthening of democracy, and the protection of human rights.”

“As I said in my inaugural address, ‘To those who cling to power through corruption and deceit and the silencing of dissent, know that you are on the wrong side of history, but that we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist.’ I then emphasized in my Cairo speech that ‘I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn’t steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights.’ These are ideas embraced by your president and your people. I agree with President Medvedev when he said that ‘Freedom is better than the absence of freedom.’ So, I see no reason why we cannot aspire together to strengthen democracy, human rights, and the rule of law as part of our ‘reset’.”

Is President Trump falling into the same trap as President Obama?

That of being naive
Don't forget Bush, who looked into Putin's eyes and knew he was very trustworthy.

The US has been trying to reset relations with Russia and Putin for a quarter of a century. Maybe our politicians and State Dept. aren't as good as we've been led to believe?
 
Don't forget Bush, who looked into Putin's eyes and knew he was very trustworthy.

The US has been trying to reset relations with Russia and Putin for a quarter of a century. Maybe our politicians and State Dept. aren't as good as we've been led to believe?
Obama was the only one that seemed to have a plan (reason) for the reset.

He wanted Russia to help with Iran. It didn’t work out for him because he wouldn’t put pressure on Iran even when they stepped way out of line (detaining our sailors). Likewise, Russia with MH-17.

Now…it’s Trump’s Turn


Stopped arms supplies to Ukraine



I think the timing of the UN vote was ignorant and they were trying to play games. Hegseth and Witkoff should be able to admit that Russia attacked Ukraine and it wasn’t because she was provoked
 
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