RIP Jimmy Carter
- Thread starter dbmhoosier
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Here is an exact quote from Carter on the Russian influence in the 2016 election...
"Well, the president himself should condemn it, admit that it happened, which I think 16 [of the] intelligence agencies have already agreed to say. And there's no doubt that the Russians did interfere in the election. And I think the interference although not yet quantified, if fully investigated would show that Trump didn't actually win the election in 2016. He lost the election, and he was put into office because the Russians interfered on his behalf."
Carter's comments didn't move the needle in the polls. Trump's actions and comments blew up the polls. That's a big difference.
Not one that offers any moral cover.
These were equally pernicious lies. And they deserve to be treated as such. But people have biases, and often allow those biases to affect these kinds of judgments.
Edit: FTR, Jimmy Carter was hardly the only one who touted the lie that Russia elected Trump in 2016….just as Donald Trump was hardly the only who touted the lie that the 2020 election outcome was the result of voter fraud.
In fact, Carter wasn’t anywhere near the most important person pushing it.
JDB, but did the high rates as administered by the Federal Reserve Bank with Volcker as Chair contribute to breaking the back of inflation which had plagued the economy for a decade as many economists have suggested?
Hillary Clinton herself maintained that Russian influence was dispositive in the outcome of the 2016 election.
And it’s kind of crazy that she essentially gets a pass on that from the mainstream media and her fellow Democrats….just as Trump gets a pass on his lie from fellow Republicans and conservative media.
The one thing they all share in common is that they allow they all see the fault….in the other party. Almost none of them publicly recognize or acknowledge that this is the actual reality….
You're talking about HRC grousing about the Russians. She's butt hurt, but she conceded and did nothing to try to change the results of the election. The polls didn't show that most Democrats considered the election fraudulent.
Trump didn't concede, actively tried to change the result through legal and illegal means and continues to lie about voter fraud without a shred of evidence that there was any - and his most loyal followers eat it up with a spoon.
To me there's a monumental difference and history will prove that's the case.
Yes. Without question.
And I believe Volcker later made comments that he felt like he had a more amenable partner with the Reagan Administration than he did with the Carter Administration.
There really isn’t a monumental difference. This is just your bias talking, Aloha.
If you could set that aside, you might be able to see that.
Supply side economics also played a big part in bringing inflation down, and would have worked - slower - to bring it down without a recession.
He's batting a pretty good percentage, so far, of debunking charges against him. We'll see who sings in the next term with Bondi as AG and Patel as head of the FBI.
There is a fundamental difference: Hillary complained that American voters were basically duped by Russian propaganda. Trump actually claimed that the results were fraudulent because people administering the election faked them.
Political bias may determine which one you think is worse, but pretending they are the same is just silly.
For sure, Carter upon appointing Carter and watching Volcker raise rates commented he might have contributed to his own election demise.
There were so many negative occurrences before Carter's reelection attempt (inflation, OPEC oil prices, Iran hostages. Kennedy challenge, USSR invading Afghanistan) that it is a wonder he was ever close to winning in my book.
Easy to conclude that Carter was a lousy president when reviewing all that happened while he occupied the Oval Office.
That is just a bizarre looking map, knowing it is 50 years ago. Some of those states that match up here are polar opposites today.Good take...
Well, Jimmy gave us Reagan and Biden gave us Trump2.0, so they’ve got going for them, which is nice.
Yes. Like I said, I always looked at Carter’s presidency, like Ford’s, as one where he was just overwhelmed by events that he couldn’t overcome.
It’s not that they were his fault (the president most to blame for the inflation of the 1970s was Richard Nixon), but that he just didn’t have effective solutions for them.
But not Indiana!
I thought it was interesting in 2008 when Obama became the first Dem to win Indiana since LBJ in 1964.
Craze, your mention of Ford reminded me that he, sorta like Harris, got handed his place as the presidential candidate of his party.
Ford because he replaced Nixon, and Harris after Biden stepped down.
Having been handed the nomination as in the case of both being vice presidents when a president steps aside might make many in the body politic think they really didn't earn the job.
Just a thought.
There's probably something to that.
I said a number of times that the Dems would've been stronger in 2024 with a candidate like Josh Shapiro or Gretchen Whitmer. But I also was adamant that Trump couldn't win the popular vote, given the kind of losing margins he'd have in states like CA and NY. It was even discussed here -- and I was among those scoffing at the suggestion. Still wiping egg off my face.
In retrospect, I'm less sure that another candidate would've beaten him. But I also disagree with Biden, who is reported to believe that it was a mistake for him to drop out and that he'd have won. I think Harris ran better than Biden would have.
With President Carter's state funeral happening prior to the inauguration, is there any chance that President-elect Trump would be disinvited the way he was to John McCain's funeral (which was while he was in office)?
As I recall, Jared Kushner and Ivanka did attend the McCain funeral...and McCain's family was publicly displeased about their presence. But Jimmy Carter was a classier man than both Donald Trump and John McCain. So I don't think he would've wanted any former (or future) president uninvited...even Trump.
But you do have to wonder. Trump and his family are such red-headed stepchildren in that small fraternity of presidential families.
As I recall, Jared Kushner and Ivanka did attend the McCain funeral...and McCain's family was publicly displeased about their presence. But Jimmy Carter was a classier man than both Donald Trump and John McCain. So I don't think he would've wanted any former (or future) president uninvited...even Trump.
But you do have to wonder. Trump and his family are such red-headed stepchildren in that small fraternity of presidential families.
My suggestions to my Dem pals was for their party to have an open convention as in olden times with Biden having formally refused.
IMO, a better candidate than Harris along with all the enthusiasm. which might have been generated from the open convention might have made a victory for whomever was nominated.
P.S. My money would have been on someone else other than Harris winning the convention nomination.
P.S. #2 Been an active member of both parties, and neither ever took my advice seriously.
Jimmy was the worst President in my lifetime until Biden came along... At least he lived long enough to know he'd never be considered number one on that list...
He had many positive attributes as a human being but his tenure as President will never be considered one of them (in my opinion)...
He atoned for it with so many years of philanthropy and service. There’s not one redeeming thing about Biden. Zip.
Monumental. It's not bias, it's factual.
Let's look at the differences.
Conceded - HRC yes, T no
Bitched about Russian interference in 2016 - HRC yes, T no
Claim loss due to voter fraud - HRC no, T yes
Ask a Governor and state AG to find a specific number of votes - HRC no, T yes
Organize alternate electors in hopes of overturning the results of states in order to win - HRC no, T yes
Gin up outrage among supporters about a the "steal" of an election - HRC no, T yes
Try to get the VP to not certify the legitimate results of the EC - HRC no, T yes
Rile up a crowd on J6 and send them down to the Capitol to "Stop the Steal" - HRC no, T yes
Refuse to help with the transition to Biden - HRC N/A, T yes
Attend inauguration as a losing candidate to demonstrate peaceful and legitimate transfer of power - HRC yes, T no
Continue to claim voter fraud constantly after out of office - HRC no, T yes
I absolutely cannot stand HRC, as anyone that has been around here for years knows. I wouldn't vote for her, and I didn't. However, the differences between her behavior and Trump's is monumental.
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How is this for a redeeming piece of trivia.
Biden is among the five presidents who attended a university along with a MVP of a Super Bowl.
Hint. he joins Ford, Harrison, Carter, and Hoover. All may not make too many person's all time great presidents list.
Ok, to solve the trivia puzzle just come up with the college and MVP.
The public is stupid, though.
Ford wasn't even elected Vice President. What I recall from this time is Nixon fatigue and Carter was like the anti-Nixon.
Yes, and contrary to what you may be thinking, he was not a classmate of mine. or Roethlisberger.
