Remember This

[stollcpa]

Wow, I don't say this lightly, but you can lightly go **** yourself.

I never once went at you personally, but if you want to go that way, we can.

Outside of sending troops in, there wasn't much Biden could have done. Had he done that, you would have been calling him a warmonger. He sanctioned Russia. What else is he suppose to do?

Maybe he should have be tough on him like Trump. Lets let a Russian reporter in the oval office, that's real tough. Or how about stop all cyber security against them, that'll show them. How about call Zelensky a dictator and blame the invasion on him, yeah, that'll show Russia who's boss. Lets say that Russia has fought and lost so many lives that they deserve to keep the land they've taken over, that's only fair. That'll show them. Lets also announce Ukraine won't go into NATO before negotiations begin, that's a good starting point.

Russia is sure shaking with Trump in charge. Such a joke.

I shouldn’t have made it personal. Had just gotten off phone call and was pissed. I apologize.

Once Biden invited him into Ukraine as long as it was a small incursion, there is no going back.

How are you getting Russia to leave the land they control?

 

[BCCHoosier]

This is like a psychological study. You’ve got your DMB MAGA who is just a Trump super fan. Will loudly cheer any and everything Trump does, even capitulating to Putin.

Then you’ve got guys like Stoll and DANC. Both very much MAGA and big Trump supporters. But with this whole Russia thing, they deep down know it is really bad. They can’t openly support Trump’s handling of the situation, so they have to lash out at the former D POTUS.

It’s all very interesting.

Dan has made some really great posts about Ukraine/Russia.

 

[stollcpa]

One more item to add to your list. Trump joined Russia and North Korea in opposing the UN resolution condemning Russia and reaffirming Ukraine’s sovereignty.

Trump is facilitating an emerging alliance, the RANK alliance. Russia, America, North Korea.

Russia Russia Russia. Lol

 

[Bowlmania]

Russia Russia Russia. Lol

That’s almost as dumb as rolling out the TDS acronym.

 

[stollcpa]

I don't claim to have the answer. It appears you think Trump does. Care to elaborate?

Looks pretty simple. Putin is going to keep what he controls. Unless you want to send Americans to fight that’s a given. Soon Ukraine will be out of bodies to fight with.

Whatever we can do to punish him financially we should do.

 

[stollcpa]

That’s almost as dumb as rolling out the TDS acronym.

Russia Russia Russia. I am still waiting on the videos with Russian Vampires and Trump.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

I shouldn’t have made it personal. Had just gotten off phone call and was pissed. I apologize.

Once Biden invited him into Ukraine as long as it was a small incursion, there is no going back.

How are you getting Russia to leave the land they control?

It's cool. We all are going through things. Me, we've had our grandson since Sunday because my daughter's boyfriend broke his collarbone, four ribs and ruptured his spline on Sunday in a snowboarding accident and has been in the hospital ever since. I've slept about three hours since since his sleep schedule isn't on ours.

I don't think they're getting that land back, which is something Z is going to have to come to grips with. I've said before though that what I think he's looking for is assurances that if they agree to a truce, that if Putin then comes back, Ukraine isn't left out on its own.

It's pretty simple as that in my eyes. Get that done and the war is probably over.

 

[Blood brother]

It's cool. We all are going through things. Me, we've had our grandson since Sunday because my daughter's boyfriend broke his collarbone, four ribs and ruptured his spline on Sunday in a snowboarding accident and has been in the hospital ever since. I've slept about three hours since since his sleep schedule isn't on ours.

I don't think they're getting that land back, which is something Z is going to have to come to grips with. I've said before though that what I think he's looking for is assurances that if they agree to a truce, that if Putin then comes back, Ukraine isn't left out on its own.

It's pretty simple as that in my eyes. Get that done and the war is probably over.

Wasn’t the deal on mineral rights for the US a way to assure that “Ukraine isn’t left on its own” by virtue of the US owning a stake?

 

[UncleMark]

Whatever we can do to punish him financially we should do.

Isn't Trump considering ending sanctions?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

It’s funny watching the TDSers ywist themselves into pretzels to defend him. He could be caught with Putin and Kim on a rape spree, and they would blame the victims.

 

[stollcpa]

It's cool. We all are going through things. Me, we've had our grandson since Sunday because my daughter's boyfriend broke his collarbone, four ribs and ruptured his spline on Sunday in a snowboarding accident and has been in the hospital ever since. I've slept about three hours since since his sleep schedule isn't on ours.

I don't think they're getting that land back, which is something Z is going to have to come to grips with. I've said before though that what I think he's looking for is assurances that if they agree to a truce, that if Putin then comes back, Ukraine isn't left out on its own.

It's pretty simple as that in my eyes. Get that done and the war is probably over.

Ruptured spline dangerous. Hope he’s on path to healing. Grandkids are fun with short visits but not for days. Lol.

One of best friends gave up golf several years ago and skying replaced golf. He has a ski in ski out condo in Snowmass. He’s tried for years to get me to take up skying. I was a hell raiser on water skis. I figured I’d stay away from skiing over the side of a mountain. 😂

Funny story when he got the Condo they were being built. Real Estate was hot and he won a lottery to get one of the Condos. When they were finished the bottom had dropped out. At the time he didn’t feel like he won the lottery. RE has boomed again so he’s smiling. The place is beautiful.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

It’s funny watching the TDSers ywist themselves into pretzels to defend him. He could be caught with Putin and Kim on a rape spree, and they would blame the victims.

to be fair, some would blame biden just cause

 

[ButHerEmails]

I don't claim to have the answer. It appears you think Trump does. Care to elaborate?

Can’t really elaborate. All you need to know is the plan to end the war is the biggest, best, most beautiful plan ever to end a war. They’re going to be doing lots of things. Lots of great, wonderful things. Like no one’s ever seen before. Just sit back and watch. You’re welcome.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

It’s funny watching the TDSers ywist themselves into pretzels to defend him. He could be caught with Putin and Kim on a rape spree, and they would blame the victims.

Is it not the same as watching Democrats claim that Biden was completely sane and had zero cognitive decline? Or a video of Biden telling Ukraine they were not getting the Billion dollars unless they fired the the prosecutor investigating Burisma?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Is it not the same as watching Democrats claim that Biden was completely sane and had zero cognitive decline? Or a video of Biden telling Ukraine they were not getting the Billion dollars unless they fired the the prosecutor investigating Burisma?

Yabbut much? WGAFF? Biden is no longer POTUS. Trump is.

And, if I remember, about the strongest defense of Biden I remember from this board was the ol' "at least he's not Trump" statements. I don't think there was anything close to the level of cult-like behavior exhibited by libs for Biden, no matter how the TDSers (and now the MDSers) tried to make it a thing.
So, now we got Trump, and he said he would fix it all on day one. How's that going?

BTW, whatever happened to the Epstein flight lists?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Is it not the same as watching Democrats claim that Biden was completely sane and had zero cognitive decline? Or a video of Biden telling Ukraine they were not getting the Billion dollars unless they fired the the prosecutor investigating Burisma?

What could Trump do that you would be against?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Yabbut much? WGAFF? Biden is no longer POTUS. Trump is.

And, if I remember, about the strongest defense of Biden I remember from this board was the ol' "at least he's not Trump" statements. I don't think there was anything close to the level of cult-like behavior exhibited by libs for Biden, no matter how the TDSers (and now the MDSers) tried to make it a thing.
So, now we got Trump, and he said he would fix it all on day one. How's that going?

BTW, whatever happened to the Epstein flight lists?

Pick me, pick me!!!!!

They released them, that were edited, that had already been unedited years ago.

Huge bombshell I tell you.

Now they've been delivered to Kash to be looked over (although did he say he's already seen them?). I'm sure they'll be delivered in no time to Pam's desk for release.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Is it not the same as watching Democrats claim that Biden was completely sane and had zero cognitive decline? Or a video of Biden telling Ukraine they were not getting the Billion dollars unless they fired the the prosecutor investigating Burisma?

Do you believe everything conservatives say?

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Do you believe everything conservatives say?

Which is untrue in the above statement?

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

What could Trump do that you would be against?

Probably has to think of something Trump wouldn't do so he won't have to backtrack later

 

[Bowlmania]

Russia Russia Russia. I am still waiting on the videos with Russian Vampires and Trump.

Senate panel backs assessment that Russia interfered in 2016

WASHINGTON (AP) — A bipartisan Senate report released Tuesday affirms the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusions that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election in a far-ranging influence campaign approved by Russian President Vladimir Putin and aimed at helping Donald Trump win the Whit

apnews.com

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Which is untrue in the above statement?

Most Dems admitted Biden was getting old and had some decline (something maga loved to exaggerate without evidence). More capable than maga can admit that Trump is right behind him in age/decline.

Biden wasnt the only one pressuring for firing the corrupt prosecutor in Ukraine. You leaving out the context to insinuate wrongdoing is pathetic.

 

[Palmbeachhoosier]

Most Dems admitted Biden was getting old and had some decline (something maga loved to exaggerate without evidence). More capable than maga can admit that Trump is right behind him in age/decline.

Biden wasnt the only one pressuring for firing the corrupt prosecutor in Ukraine. You leaving out the context to insinuate wrongdoing is pathetic.

So you are saying Biden was in decline and that he did with hold taxpayer money to have a prosecutor fired that was investigating Burisma?

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

So you are saying Biden was in decline and that he did with hold taxpayer money to have a prosecutor fired that was investigating Burisma?

He was getting a CORRUPT prosecutor fired. Something conservatives, England and other leaders all agreed on ....until Trump decided to make it political and get his sheep to fall in line.

Congrats on being a good little sheep

 

[BadWakeboarder]

He's trying to end it by giving Putin everything. You can't shift the blame for that back onto Biden. God knows you'll try, but you can't.

Sorry, what is “everything?”

 

[IUINSB]

I wonder if Trump is smart enough to let Musk take the fall for all this, kick him to the curb, then fix it with common sense?

Not sure who will be the scapegoat. We all know DJT is blameless for any failures.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Sorry, what is “everything?”

Withholding aid from Ukraine while simultaneously preparing to end sanctions against Russia.

 

[Spartans9312]

Trump is POTUS. WGAFF about Biden.
The economy hasn't improved. Trump administration is chaotic, both domestically and internationally. And don't get me started on the price of eggs.
This is quickly becoming a full on shit show that has nothing to do with anyone else but the guy who the buck is supposed to stop with.

Dude…quit killing the damn chickens

 

[BadWakeboarder]

Withholding aid from Ukraine while simultaneously preparing to end sanctions against Russia.

So what does that give Russia? Without using hyperbole.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

So what does that give Russia? Without using hyperbole.

In the short term? Negotiating position. In the long term? Perhaps more battlefield success.

 

[Doc Brule]

In the short term? Negotiating position. In the long term? Perhaps more battlefield success.

And legitimacy

 

[IUPaterade724]

Yabbut much? WGAFF? Biden is no longer POTUS. Trump is.

And, if I remember, about the strongest defense of Biden I remember from this board was the ol' "at least he's not Trump" statements. I don't think there was anything close to the level of cult-like behavior exhibited by libs for Biden, no matter how the TDSers (and now the MDSers) tried to make it a thing.
So, now we got Trump, and he said he would fix it all on day one. How's that going?

BTW, whatever happened to the Epstein flight lists?

I wonder if his fanatics actually believed none of their side was on the list. I have a feeling Mossad entangled everyone, and on paper it could look a lot worse for all involved, whether or not they did anything perverse, and could be spun into a million webs.

 

[BadWakeboarder]

In the short term? Negotiating position. In the long term? Perhaps more battlefield success.

Not likely. Surely that came with a message of “do not advance.”

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Not likely. Surely that came with a message of “do not advance.”

I admire your optimism.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Is it not the same as watching Democrats claim that Biden was completely sane and had zero cognitive decline? Or a video of Biden telling Ukraine they were not getting the Billion dollars unless they fired the the prosecutor investigating Burisma?

Come on. That second sentence has been thoroughly debunked. I remember when Republicans were honest with their criticism of Democrats. What happened?

 

[BradStevens]

US statecraft 101 is building coalitions, applying pressure, seeking opportunities while your opponent flails. That’s been the successful playbook we’ve used in Europe since WW2. It’s same playbook that brought down Assad and boxed Iran in.

Trump’s playbook may be great but so far it has zero wins. ZERO. It doesn’t build teams. It doesn’t push for or even really allow for buy-in. It doesn’t clearly state goals, just repeats populist anthems. It focuses on blaming the victims and past administrations.

There’s really not much to get behind.

Not sure those are the examples you'd want to use to show how successful the US has been in statecraft.
Assad was in power for 24 years, and I'm not sure the US had anything to do with his ultimate demise. Iran has been fomenting terrorism for 45 years now, with no sign of slowing down and currently working on nuclear weapons.

 

[bailey777]

Most Dems admitted Biden was getting old and had some decline (something maga loved to exaggerate without evidence). More capable than maga can admit that Trump is right behind him in age/decline.

Biden wasnt the only one pressuring for firing the corrupt prosecutor in Ukraine. You leaving out the context to insinuate wrongdoing is pathetic.

Of course trump is old but it's why vance is up next. If people wanted someone younger Harris would have won.

 

[BradStevens]

It's cool. We all are going through things. Me, we've had our grandson since Sunday because my daughter's boyfriend broke his collarbone, four ribs and ruptured his spline on Sunday in a snowboarding accident and has been in the hospital ever since. I've slept about three hours since since his sleep schedule isn't on ours.

I don't think they're getting that land back, which is something Z is going to have to come to grips with. I've said before though that what I think he's looking for is assurances that if they agree to a truce, that if Putin then comes back, Ukraine isn't left out on its own.

It's pretty simple as that in my eyes. Get that done and the war is probably over.

This isn't too far from Trump's position, is it?

 

[Doc Brule]

Not sure those are the examples you'd want to use to show how successful the US has been in statecraft.
Assad was in power for 24 years, and I'm not sure the US had anything to do with his ultimate demise. Iran has been fomenting terrorism for 45 years now, with no sign of slowing down and currently working on nuclear weapons.

As powerful as the US is, it’s unrealistic to think it can do all things in all places to anyone it wants on the time scale it wants. Iran and Syria have often had outsized influence and power in their corner of the world, through patronage and effective networks of like-minded states/ groups. It was going to take a sustained long-term effort to diminish or topple that.

The US supported Iraq vs Iran in the 80s. Iran’s ability to fight conventional wars was greatly reduced by the time we got to the Gulf Wars. Post Gulf Wars, the US beefed up ties to the Saudis while keeping them and the Israelis well armed. These two partnerships, plus Turkey to a degree, were set up to counter-balance Iran (and each other). Despite many blunders, we managed to keep post-war Iraq from being overwhelmed by Iranian influence. Then in 2010s we backed Kurds and Syrian rebels during the Syrian Civil War. Turkey also backed rebels (but also fought Kurds linked to our Kurds — such is life.) We also dropped Stuxnet on Iran at that time. Post 10/7, the US gave Israel a long (but not infinite) leash to demolish Hamas and then Hezbollah With Russia tied up fighting US/ Euro backed Ukrainians in a death match and Iran’s steady decline due to weakened proxies and pariah- hood, Assad fell hard. Iran couldn’t do anything about it and Russia couldnt be bothered.

And we never had to attack Iran or Syria directly, at least in a sustained way. We didn’t have to send in a ton troops. Didn’t have to deal with major unmanageable escalations or unintended consequences. We strengthened partnerships that will help us solve future problems.

It’s really a success story if you take the long view. We did this over multiple admins ranging across the political spectrum. Course changed slightly depending on the political winds but ultimately the goals were defined, partnerships were sought and sustained, and opportunities were acted upon.

This new brand of populism wants to take us so far away from that. Its grievances aren’t imaginary but its boogey men are foolishly so.

 

[BradStevens]

As powerful as the US is, it’s unrealistic to think it can do all things in all places to anyone it wants on the time scale it wants. Iran and Syria have often had outsized influence and power in their corner of the world, through patronage and effective networks of like-minded states/ groups. It was going to take a sustained long-term effort to diminish or topple that.

The US supported Iraq vs Iran in the 80s. Iran’s ability to fight conventional wars was greatly reduced by the time we got to the Gulf Wars. Post Gulf Wars, the US beefed up ties to the Saudis while keeping them and the Israelis well armed. These two partnerships, plus Turkey to a degree, were set up to counter-balance Iran (and each other). Despite many blunders, we managed to keep post-war Iraq from being overwhelmed by Iranian influence. Then in 2010s we backed Kurds and Syrian rebels during the Syrian Civil War. Turkey also backed rebels (but also fought Kurds linked to our Kurds — such is life.) We also dropped Stuxnet on Iran at that time. Post 10/7, the US gave Israel a long (but not infinite) leash to demolish Hamas and then Hezbollah With Russia tied up fighting US/ Euro backed Ukrainians in a death match and Iran’s steady decline due to weakened proxies and pariah- hood, Assad fell hard. Iran couldn’t do anything about it and Russia couldnt be bothered.

And we never had to attack Iran or Syria directly, at least in a sustained way. We didn’t have to send in a ton troops. Didn’t have to deal with major unmanageable escalations or unintended consequences. We strengthened partnerships that will help us solve future problems.

It’s really a success story if you take the long view. We did this over multiple admins ranging across the political spectrum. Course changed slightly depending on the political winds but ultimately the goals were defined, partnerships were sought and sustained, and opportunities were acted upon.

This new brand of populism wants to take us so far away from that. Its grievances aren’t imaginary but its boogey men are foolishly so.

I don't know how to respond to this other than to say I think the facts and history show the US policy towards the Middle East--Iran, Iraq, Syria, et al--has not been a "success story," especially if you take the long view.

Finding a silver lining--hey, at least Iraq isn't overwhelmed by Iranian influence! (it wasn't before we went in, either)--from our Iraq misadventure is certainly creative, though.