Recruit Failures from 2020 to 2023

[Mark Milton]

I posted this on Peegs ---worth it to show how poorly Allen's staff recruited for a significant period of time:

Matt Weaver and Jared Kelly touched on some of the recruiting failures of IU--in particular on the DL on their podcast. I went back and looked through the 2020 (which would be the covid year provided to players), as the starting point. In theory, that would also be the first class after Allen achieved some success.

2020 Class

Rashawn Williams WR (gone after a year)

Christopher Keys DB (gone after two years)

Dexter Williams QB (gone after multiple injuries.

AJ Barner TE (transfer to Michigan)

Bryson Bonds S (still here)

Damjarjhe Lewis DT (gone to purdue)

Kahlil Benson OT (gone to Colorado)

Tim Baldwin RB (gone after two)

Jalen Mayla DE (gone after a year, transferred to UAB and then to Valdosta State and has 1 tackle....)

Brady Feeney OG transferred to Colgate and then stopped playing

Ty Wise LB Transferred after a year to Miami of Ohio and is now a star

Lem Whatley-Neeley CB Transferred to Kent State after a year and then never played.

David Baker WR Never played and signed a medical hardship waiver

Caleb Murphy SDE Moved to Center, started two games and never played again

Luke Haggard OT Juco guy, good player finished at IU

Luke Wiginton OT Never played gone after two years

Javon Swinton WR Barely played, caught a few balls, transferred to Eastern Michigan and saw limited minutes

Randy Holtz OG Never played left after a two or three years and doesn't play football anymore

Chris Bradberry OT Never played.

A LOT of misses especially on the OL and every Grant Heard WR recruit. Big misses at the DL as well. Only Barner and Bonds stuck for 4 years. Only 3 transfers came in

2021 Class

Donven McCulley QB-WR switch was a good one. Struggling this year but lots of ability

Malachi Holt-Bennett WR- another Heard recruit. Transferred out to UAB and still doesn't produce

Jaquez Smith WR-another heard recruit. Never played transferred to Missouri State and still doesn't play

Maurice Freeman LB/ S transferred out first year to liberty and doesn't play

Aaron Steinfeldt TE: Not playing anymore--I think gone because of injuries

Trent Howland RB: not much of a player until last year, but he transferred out. Decent enough.

Larry Smith CB: Transferred/left. No clue what he is or was doing.

Joshua Sales OT: Transferred to Purdue where he gets lit up every game

Cooper Jones DL: lots of position switches back and forth. Depth player

Jordyn Williams WR: Once again, another Heard recruit who never played. Transferred to Jax state then to central. Bit player

Vinny Fiacble OG: Hasn't really played out this year.

Transfers that came were mixed bags--DJ Mathews, Carpenter, Carr and Anderson were good, the rest were just guys and the much needed DL help, especially at tackle, was from Kramer-not a BIG10 player

David Holloman RB: transferred to GVSU and barely plays

Jordan Grier S: Transferred out to Memphis and barely plays

James Evans P: Great punter.

So Heard continues his magnificent recruiting efforts in 2021, and we follow up terrible DL recruiting with even worse DL recruiting

2022 Class

Dasan McCullough LB: gone after a year

Carter Smith OT: Great player

Brady Foley TE: Still on the roster but doesn't play

Phillip Dunnam S: Transferred

Trevell Mullen CB: Transferred to James Madison. Didn't play last year and doesn't appear to have played yet this far (no stats recorded)

Nick James DT: Transferred to Pitt

Isaiah Jones LB: He's finally starting to get minutes and doing okay

Omar Cooper WR: doing well in a crowded room

Vensen Sneed DE: Not much contribution

Richard Thomas DE: Transferred away, barely plays now at Florida Atlantic

J'Mari Monette DL: No contribution

Bray Lynch OT: He's gonna be good

Jamari Sharpe CB has some ability--could be a good one

DJ Moore G: Gone--don't even think he is playing football

Ryan Miller TE: Tight end--retired for medical reasons

James Monds CB: Transferred

Jaylin Lucas RB: Transferred

Cam Camper WR: Good player, hurt a lot and then transferred

Kaiden Turner LB: started one game. Not much else

Brendan Sorsby QB; started for a chunk of last season and transferred

Kam Perry WR: never played and transferred

Louis Moore S: Good player, transferred

Brought in 15 transfers that year and guys who were legit BIG 10 players were Tevis, Henderson, Shivers, Simmons and Jennings. Not a great group of transfers-and it showed up on the field

2023 Class

The 2023 class is probably too young to judge, but it is important to note that of the 17 HS recruits, 8 transferred out within a year. Of the 23 Transfers we took in, 7 transferred out after a year, and of the remaining 16, ten were quality players. Allen had to to hit on nearly all these transfers and it just didn't work out.

You could see the recruiting unravel contemporaneously with it happening, but when you look back, it is astounding how poor recruiting went coming off of two good seasons-- in particular the DL, WR and OL positions --just not enough contributors (or in the case of Grant Heard's recruits, just one whiff after the next that left Allen in a huge hole--and it showed up the last two years of his tenure--not good enough receiver play and slow--what many of us pointed out, and that is exactly what Cignetti said.

 

[shamudisc]

I posted this on Peegs ---worth it to show how poorly Allen's staff recruited for a significant period of time:

Matt Weaver and Jared Kelly touched on some of the recruiting failures of IU--in particular on the DL on their podcast. I went back and looked through the 2020 (which would be the covid year provided to players), as the starting point. In theory, that would also be the first class after Allen achieved some success.

2020 Class

Rashawn Williams WR (gone after a year)

Christopher Keys DB (gone after two years)

Dexter Williams QB (gone after multiple injuries.

AJ Barner TE (transfer to Michigan)

Bryson Bonds S (still here)

Damjarjhe Lewis DT (gone to purdue)

Kahlil Benson OT (gone to Colorado)

Tim Baldwin RB (gone after two)

Jalen Mayla DE (gone after a year, transferred to UAB and then to Valdosta State and has 1 tackle....)

Brady Feeney OG transferred to Colgate and then stopped playing

Ty Wise LB Transferred after a year to Miami of Ohio and is now a star

Lem Whatley-Neeley CB Transferred to Kent State after a year and then never played.

David Baker WR Never played and signed a medical hardship waiver

Caleb Murphy SDE Moved to Center, started two games and never played again

Luke Haggard OT Juco guy, good player finished at IU

Luke Wiginton OT Never played gone after two years

Javon Swinton WR Barely played, caught a few balls, transferred to Eastern Michigan and saw limited minutes

Randy Holtz OG Never played left after a two or three years and doesn't play football anymore

Chris Bradberry OT Never played.

A LOT of misses especially on the OL and every Grant Heard WR recruit. Big misses at the DL as well. Only Barner and Bonds stuck for 4 years. Only 3 transfers came in

2021 Class

Donven McCulley QB-WR switch was a good one. Struggling this year but lots of ability

Malachi Holt-Bennett WR- another Heard recruit. Transferred out to UAB and still doesn't produce

Jaquez Smith WR-another heard recruit. Never played transferred to Missouri State and still doesn't play

Maurice Freeman LB/ S transferred out first year to liberty and doesn't play

Aaron Steinfeldt TE: Not playing anymore--I think gone because of injuries

Trent Howland RB: not much of a player until last year, but he transferred out. Decent enough.

Larry Smith CB: Transferred/left. No clue what he is or was doing.

Joshua Sales OT: Transferred to Purdue where he gets lit up every game

Cooper Jones DL: lots of position switches back and forth. Depth player

Jordyn Williams WR: Once again, another Heard recruit who never played. Transferred to Jax state then to central. Bit player

Vinny Fiacble OG: Hasn't really played out this year.

Transfers that came were mixed bags--DJ Mathews, Carpenter, Carr and Anderson were good, the rest were just guys and the much needed DL help, especially at tackle, was from Kramer-not a BIG10 player

David Holloman RB: transferred to GVSU and barely plays

Jordan Grier S: Transferred out to Memphis and barely plays

James Evans P: Great punter.

So Heard continues his magnificent recruiting efforts in 2021, and we follow up terrible DL recruiting with even worse DL recruiting

2022 Class

Dasan McCullough LB: gone after a year

Carter Smith OT: Great player

Brady Foley TE: Still on the roster but doesn't play

Phillip Dunnam S: Transferred

Trevell Mullen CB: Transferred to James Madison. Didn't play last year and doesn't appear to have played yet this far (no stats recorded)

Nick James DT: Transferred to Pitt

Isaiah Jones LB: He's finally starting to get minutes and doing okay

Omar Cooper WR: doing well in a crowded room

Vensen Sneed DE: Not much contribution

Richard Thomas DE: Transferred away, barely plays now at Florida Atlantic

J'Mari Monette DL: No contribution

Bray Lynch OT: He's gonna be good

Jamari Sharpe CB has some ability--could be a good one

DJ Moore G: Gone--don't even think he is playing football

Ryan Miller TE: Tight end--retired for medical reasons

James Monds CB: Transferred

Jaylin Lucas RB: Transferred

Cam Camper WR: Good player, hurt a lot and then transferred

Kaiden Turner LB: started one game. Not much else

Brendan Sorsby QB; started for a chunk of last season and transferred

Kam Perry WR: never played and transferred

Louis Moore S: Good player, transferred

Brought in 15 transfers that year and guys who were legit BIG 10 players were Tevis, Henderson, Shivers, Simmons and Jennings. Not a great group of transfers-and it showed up on the field

2023 Class

The 2023 class is probably too young to judge, but it is important to note that of the 17 HS recruits, 8 transferred out within a year. Of the 23 Transfers we took in, 7 transferred out after a year, and of the remaining 16, ten were quality players. Allen had to to hit on nearly all these transfers and it just didn't work out.

You could see the recruiting unravel contemporaneously with it happening, but when you look back, it is astounding how poor recruiting went coming off of two good seasons-- in particular the DL, WR and OL positions --just not enough contributors (or in the case of Grant Heard's recruits, just one whiff after the next that left Allen in a huge hole--and it showed up the last two years of his tenure--not good enough receiver play and slow--what many of us pointed out, and that is exactly what Cignetti said.

Nice summary...

 

[secondasky]

I posted this on Peegs ---worth it to show how poorly Allen's staff recruited for a significant period of time:

Matt Weaver and Jared Kelly touched on some of the recruiting failures of IU--in particular on the DL on their podcast. I went back and looked through the 2020 (which would be the covid year provided to players), as the starting point. In theory, that would also be the first class after Allen achieved some success.

2020 Class

Rashawn Williams WR (gone after a year)

Christopher Keys DB (gone after two years)

Dexter Williams QB (gone after multiple injuries.

AJ Barner TE (transfer to Michigan)

Bryson Bonds S (still here)

Damjarjhe Lewis DT (gone to purdue)

Kahlil Benson OT (gone to Colorado)

Tim Baldwin RB (gone after two)

Jalen Mayla DE (gone after a year, transferred to UAB and then to Valdosta State and has 1 tackle....)

Brady Feeney OG transferred to Colgate and then stopped playing

Ty Wise LB Transferred after a year to Miami of Ohio and is now a star

Lem Whatley-Neeley CB Transferred to Kent State after a year and then never played.

David Baker WR Never played and signed a medical hardship waiver

Caleb Murphy SDE Moved to Center, started two games and never played again

Luke Haggard OT Juco guy, good player finished at IU

Luke Wiginton OT Never played gone after two years

Javon Swinton WR Barely played, caught a few balls, transferred to Eastern Michigan and saw limited minutes

Randy Holtz OG Never played left after a two or three years and doesn't play football anymore

Chris Bradberry OT Never played.

A LOT of misses especially on the OL and every Grant Heard WR recruit. Big misses at the DL as well. Only Barner and Bonds stuck for 4 years. Only 3 transfers came in

2021 Class

Donven McCulley QB-WR switch was a good one. Struggling this year but lots of ability

Malachi Holt-Bennett WR- another Heard recruit. Transferred out to UAB and still doesn't produce

Jaquez Smith WR-another heard recruit. Never played transferred to Missouri State and still doesn't play

Maurice Freeman LB/ S transferred out first year to liberty and doesn't play

Aaron Steinfeldt TE: Not playing anymore--I think gone because of injuries

Trent Howland RB: not much of a player until last year, but he transferred out. Decent enough.

Larry Smith CB: Transferred/left. No clue what he is or was doing.

Joshua Sales OT: Transferred to Purdue where he gets lit up every game

Cooper Jones DL: lots of position switches back and forth. Depth player

Jordyn Williams WR: Once again, another Heard recruit who never played. Transferred to Jax state then to central. Bit player

Vinny Fiacble OG: Hasn't really played out this year.

Transfers that came were mixed bags--DJ Mathews, Carpenter, Carr and Anderson were good, the rest were just guys and the much needed DL help, especially at tackle, was from Kramer-not a BIG10 player

David Holloman RB: transferred to GVSU and barely plays

Jordan Grier S: Transferred out to Memphis and barely plays

James Evans P: Great punter.

So Heard continues his magnificent recruiting efforts in 2021, and we follow up terrible DL recruiting with even worse DL recruiting

2022 Class

Dasan McCullough LB: gone after a year

Carter Smith OT: Great player

Brady Foley TE: Still on the roster but doesn't play

Phillip Dunnam S: Transferred

Trevell Mullen CB: Transferred to James Madison. Didn't play last year and doesn't appear to have played yet this far (no stats recorded)

Nick James DT: Transferred to Pitt

Isaiah Jones LB: He's finally starting to get minutes and doing okay

Omar Cooper WR: doing well in a crowded room

Vensen Sneed DE: Not much contribution

Richard Thomas DE: Transferred away, barely plays now at Florida Atlantic

J'Mari Monette DL: No contribution

Bray Lynch OT: He's gonna be good

Jamari Sharpe CB has some ability--could be a good one

DJ Moore G: Gone--don't even think he is playing football

Ryan Miller TE: Tight end--retired for medical reasons

James Monds CB: Transferred

Jaylin Lucas RB: Transferred

Cam Camper WR: Good player, hurt a lot and then transferred

Kaiden Turner LB: started one game. Not much else

Brendan Sorsby QB; started for a chunk of last season and transferred

Kam Perry WR: never played and transferred

Louis Moore S: Good player, transferred

Brought in 15 transfers that year and guys who were legit BIG 10 players were Tevis, Henderson, Shivers, Simmons and Jennings. Not a great group of transfers-and it showed up on the field

2023 Class

The 2023 class is probably too young to judge, but it is important to note that of the 17 HS recruits, 8 transferred out within a year. Of the 23 Transfers we took in, 7 transferred out after a year, and of the remaining 16, ten were quality players. Allen had to to hit on nearly all these transfers and it just didn't work out.

You could see the recruiting unravel contemporaneously with it happening, but when you look back, it is astounding how poor recruiting went coming off of two good seasons-- in particular the DL, WR and OL positions --just not enough contributors (or in the case of Grant Heard's recruits, just one whiff after the next that left Allen in a huge hole--and it showed up the last two years of his tenure--not good enough receiver play and slow--what many of us pointed out, and that is exactly what Cignetti said.

Did you actually do the research on this ? If so must have taken a long time. Impressed.

 

[Mark Milton]

Did you actually do the research on this ? If so must have taken a long time. Impressed.

I do indeed. Joys of insomnia

 

[vesuvius13]

I do indeed. Joys of insomnia

Thanks for putting this together and it is nice to now have a coaching staff that evaluates talent for incoming players.

 

[jacksback]

I always wondered about Allen's NFL guys he brought in to coach. I can't remember all the names but we had several. Not sure if any of them were actually good coaches but it appeared the he liked them because they coached in the NFL.

Great to see that Cig is about results with both his assistant coaching choices and who he recruits.

 

[Walt542]

Thanks for this. It is very interesting how bad it all went after two really good years. It just does not make any sense to me but maybe the two good years were all smoke and mirrors with the two good coordinators and then nothing.

 

[ulrey]

I posted this on Peegs ---worth it to show how poorly Allen's staff recruited for a significant period of time:

Matt Weaver and Jared Kelly touched on some of the recruiting failures of IU--in particular on the DL on their podcast. I went back and looked through the 2020 (which would be the covid year provided to players), as the starting point. In theory, that would also be the first class after Allen achieved some success.

2020 Class

Rashawn Williams WR (gone after a year)

Christopher Keys DB (gone after two years)

Dexter Williams QB (gone after multiple injuries.

AJ Barner TE (transfer to Michigan)

Bryson Bonds S (still here)

Damjarjhe Lewis DT (gone to purdue)

Kahlil Benson OT (gone to Colorado)

Tim Baldwin RB (gone after two)

Jalen Mayla DE (gone after a year, transferred to UAB and then to Valdosta State and has 1 tackle....)

Brady Feeney OG transferred to Colgate and then stopped playing

Ty Wise LB Transferred after a year to Miami of Ohio and is now a star

Lem Whatley-Neeley CB Transferred to Kent State after a year and then never played.

David Baker WR Never played and signed a medical hardship waiver

Caleb Murphy SDE Moved to Center, started two games and never played again

Luke Haggard OT Juco guy, good player finished at IU

Luke Wiginton OT Never played gone after two years

Javon Swinton WR Barely played, caught a few balls, transferred to Eastern Michigan and saw limited minutes

Randy Holtz OG Never played left after a two or three years and doesn't play football anymore

Chris Bradberry OT Never played.

A LOT of misses especially on the OL and every Grant Heard WR recruit. Big misses at the DL as well. Only Barner and Bonds stuck for 4 years. Only 3 transfers came in

2021 Class

Donven McCulley QB-WR switch was a good one. Struggling this year but lots of ability

Malachi Holt-Bennett WR- another Heard recruit. Transferred out to UAB and still doesn't produce

Jaquez Smith WR-another heard recruit. Never played transferred to Missouri State and still doesn't play

Maurice Freeman LB/ S transferred out first year to liberty and doesn't play

Aaron Steinfeldt TE: Not playing anymore--I think gone because of injuries

Trent Howland RB: not much of a player until last year, but he transferred out. Decent enough.

Larry Smith CB: Transferred/left. No clue what he is or was doing.

Joshua Sales OT: Transferred to Purdue where he gets lit up every game

Cooper Jones DL: lots of position switches back and forth. Depth player

Jordyn Williams WR: Once again, another Heard recruit who never played. Transferred to Jax state then to central. Bit player

Vinny Fiacble OG: Hasn't really played out this year.

Transfers that came were mixed bags--DJ Mathews, Carpenter, Carr and Anderson were good, the rest were just guys and the much needed DL help, especially at tackle, was from Kramer-not a BIG10 player

David Holloman RB: transferred to GVSU and barely plays

Jordan Grier S: Transferred out to Memphis and barely plays

James Evans P: Great punter.

So Heard continues his magnificent recruiting efforts in 2021, and we follow up terrible DL recruiting with even worse DL recruiting

2022 Class

Dasan McCullough LB: gone after a year

Carter Smith OT: Great player

Brady Foley TE: Still on the roster but doesn't play

Phillip Dunnam S: Transferred

Trevell Mullen CB: Transferred to James Madison. Didn't play last year and doesn't appear to have played yet this far (no stats recorded)

Nick James DT: Transferred to Pitt

Isaiah Jones LB: He's finally starting to get minutes and doing okay

Omar Cooper WR: doing well in a crowded room

Vensen Sneed DE: Not much contribution

Richard Thomas DE: Transferred away, barely plays now at Florida Atlantic

J'Mari Monette DL: No contribution

Bray Lynch OT: He's gonna be good

Jamari Sharpe CB has some ability--could be a good one

DJ Moore G: Gone--don't even think he is playing football

Ryan Miller TE: Tight end--retired for medical reasons

James Monds CB: Transferred

Jaylin Lucas RB: Transferred

Cam Camper WR: Good player, hurt a lot and then transferred

Kaiden Turner LB: started one game. Not much else

Brendan Sorsby QB; started for a chunk of last season and transferred

Kam Perry WR: never played and transferred

Louis Moore S: Good player, transferred

Brought in 15 transfers that year and guys who were legit BIG 10 players were Tevis, Henderson, Shivers, Simmons and Jennings. Not a great group of transfers-and it showed up on the field

2023 Class

The 2023 class is probably too young to judge, but it is important to note that of the 17 HS recruits, 8 transferred out within a year. Of the 23 Transfers we took in, 7 transferred out after a year, and of the remaining 16, ten were quality players. Allen had to to hit on nearly all these transfers and it just didn't work out.

You could see the recruiting unravel contemporaneously with it happening, but when you look back, it is astounding how poor recruiting went coming off of two good seasons-- in particular the DL, WR and OL positions --just not enough contributors (or in the case of Grant Heard's recruits, just one whiff after the next that left Allen in a huge hole--and it showed up the last two years of his tenure--not good enough receiver play and slow--what many of us pointed out, and that is exactly what Cignetti said.

Excellent post. Thanks for sharing

 

[It Will Do]

Great job with your analysis.

 

[Hoosier Clarion]

I always wondered about Allen's NFL guys he brought in to coach. I can't remember all the names but we had several. Not sure if any of them were actually good coaches but it appeared the he liked them because they coached in the NFL.

Great to see that Cig is about results with both his assistant coaching choices and who he recruits.

Also him getting oversold by an ex-military vet. Made him DC in full possession of the keys while he was still trying to figure out his introduction to the sport of football. Never really fathomed how bad a HC Allen is until Cignetti moved into his office and gave me a clear contrast exposing the difference.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Phillip Dunnam is playing pretty well at FAU. Had 2 INTs on the year.

Camper is one of the rotational WRs for Boise and has over 220 yards on the season and 3 touchdowns. He is a vital part of their offense.

McCullough is running 2nd / 3rd string at Oklahoma and has been injured. His brother, Daeh, is at Louisville under Brohm amd doesn’t play.

Howland is at Oklahoma State and stuck behind a really good RB.

Steinfeldt is at University of Albany and on the roster. Has 1 catch for 2 yards.

James Monds is at Middle Tennessee State and plays rotationally. Has 7 tackles on the year.

Louis Moore starts at Ole Miss and has 15 tackles on the year.

I look at a guy like Isaiah Jones and I’d say he’s doing more than okay. You can see the impact of this staff on him. Guy is always around the ball and has 17 tackles in the year.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

I think the big ten is just not the place to be a college head coach for the first time. Players mentioned by and large probably didn't live up to their hype due to the rotating doors of assistant coaches. And can you imagine hiring Walt Bell when keeping your job depended on getting the offense right.

 

[4IUSox2]

Totally agree, Region. Say what you will about Kevin Wilson, his tenure, and his abrupt departure, but no first year IU coach ever had a better set up, and more pieces in place than did Tom Allen when he took over. Think of the total rebuilds that Corso, Mallory, Cam and GD all endured at IU compared to what TA walked “down the hall” into? He inherited IU’s first consecutive bowl teams in 25 years. Good, qualified HC’s would have been interested in the gig at that time since it wasn’t a total rebuild, as is usually the case for a new coach at IU. But, Fred being Fred, smarter than everyone else, (just ask him) went solo and found a guy who’d never been a HC at this level.

I appreciate TA’s efforts, especially in ‘19 and ‘20. He seems like a great guy, who fans and players really liked. Seems everyone wanted him to succeed. He was paid handsomely for 2 years of success, paid even more for 3 years of failure and parlayed that into buyout money we all can only dream of.

Seems Scott had a much better plan than Fred.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I think the big ten is just not the place to be a college head coach for the first time. Players mentioned by and large probably didn't live up to their hype due to the rotating doors of assistant coaches. And can you imagine hiring Walt Bell when keeping your job depended on getting the offense right.

See Ryan Walters Hazell up at Purdue.
When they hired him, on the heels of a very good coach (Brohm is a good coach - he was a good hire) I thought: grave mistake.

Unless you are an elite program, hiring guys who have never been a head coach are a huge gamble. I don’t think you can get away with that at schools that don’t have elite talent and decades of winning.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

See Ryan Walters Hazell up at Purdue.
When they hired him, on the heels of a very good coach (Brohm is a good coach - he was a good hire) I thought: grave mistake.

Unless you are an elite program, hiring guys who have never been a head coach are a huge gamble. I don’t think you can get away with that at schools that don’t have elite talent and decades of winning.

Yeah very similar decision as hiring Allen, except maybe Allen was more of a known quantity to the AD as he already worked there. I think Fred thought he really had something there but Allen proved he couldn't be the guy sustainably. Never saw a team take a time out before the first snap. Not being prepared for that onsides kick. The struggle with assistants.

Especially for schools with relatively limited resources (PU and IU), if you are going to go with a coordinator, you need to go with offense. That way if you do happen to have success and lose your coordinators, at least you don't start over with your offensive identity each time. And if you only have so much talent you need to start with scoring points with modern football instead of trying to win 10-9 by focusing primarily on D.

 

[td75]

With the hindsight view of TA's tenure and the early view of CC's tenure, you get the feeling that Cignetti will get everything possible out of his roster. Allen certainly didn't do that his last few years as coach. I thought last year's team was bowl worthy but with TA leading the charge, it never materialized.

Allen had some nice moments as Indiana head coach. Beating Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska and others, was very satisfying for longtime IU football fans. Going to back to back Florida bowl games was big time.

That said, Allen struggled replacing key assistants by making lousy hires and the record tells the tale.

 

[Walt542]

With the hindsight view of TA's tenure and the early view of CC's tenure, you get the feeling that Cignetti will get everything possible out of his roster. Allen certainly didn't do that his last few years as coach. I thought last year's team was bowl worthy but with TA leading the charge, it never materialized.

Allen had some nice moments as Indiana head coach. Beating Penn State, Michigan, Nebraska and others, was very satisfying for longtime IU football fans. Going to back to back Florida bowl games was big time.

That said, Allen struggled replacing key assistants by making lousy hires and the record tells the tale.

You are so right in this.

 

[chuck.griffith]

Except for the 2024 recruits, there are only 21 players from the previous 4 classes left on the roster

 

[red hornet]

In this era of NIL/Transfer Portal, that's the way of CFB

 

[Mark Milton]

In this era of NIL/Transfer Portal, that's the way of CFB

It is only like that if you absolutely shit the bed recruiting and on the field. Which we did.

 

[mrhighlife]

Wondering what Jaylin Lucas is thinking these days? I'm betting he got an ok NIL from FSU but man they are a hot dumpster fire of a program.

 

[Mark Milton]

Wondering what Jaylin Lucas is thinking these days? I'm betting he got an ok NIL from FSU but man they are a hot dumpster fire of a program.

It would have been a luxury to have Lucas with the new staff. First, the NIL money that Lucas was looking for wasn't going to be paid/blessed by, this staff. This staff values a running back who can pass block. Last year, Lucas graded out a 10.4 in pass blocking (up from 9.4 his freshman year), and 50.9 in run blocking. Lucas, for all his speed and agility, lacks vision along the line of scrimmage. You can go back and look at his inside zone runs and he never, ever, ever sees the cutback. For both Wide Zone and Inside Zone, the cutback is the homerun play--find it and you likely are going to hit pretty big. That is why every team has inside and outside zones regardless of the size of the running back.

Lucas would have been an asset at KO return--100%. Don't want to see him return punts again though. We have 4 good running backs in our rotation now. I wouldn't trade any of them for Lucas-and I'm being candid not bitter--I don't care that he left (Blidi and Minor were the only ones that bothered me because of the lateness in the switch and the fact they had already agreed to new NIL deals).

 

[mrhighlife]

It would have been a luxury to have Lucas with the new staff. First, the NIL money that Lucas was looking for wasn't going to be paid/blessed by, this staff. This staff values a running back who can pass block. Last year, Lucas graded out a 10.4 in pass blocking (up from 9.4 his freshman year), and 50.9 in run blocking. Lucas, for all his speed and agility, lacks vision along the line of scrimmage. You can go back and look at his inside zone runs and he never, ever, ever sees the cutback. For both Wide Zone and Inside Zone, the cutback is the homerun play--find it and you likely are going to hit pretty big. That is why every team has inside and outside zones regardless of the size of the running back.

Lucas would have been an asset at KO return--100%. Don't want to see him return punts again though. We have 4 good running backs in our rotation now. I wouldn't trade any of them for Lucas-and I'm being candid not bitter--I don't care that he left (Blidi and Minor were the only ones that bothered me because of the lateness in the switch and the fact they had already agreed to new NIL deals).

Good stuff and I agree. We are more than good without him. Great actually. I was just looking at the 2022 class and his name popped out for me. More of a "I wonder if he regrets things" thought.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Wondering what Jaylin Lucas is thinking these days? I'm betting he got an ok NIL from FSU but man they are a hot dumpster fire of a program.

Probably wondering when his leg will heal.

 

[Kelly_32]

Probably wondering when his leg will heal.

How bad has FSU been? When Lucas was hurt, he was the only offensive player on FSU that had a PFF grade above 80.

 

[Mark Milton]

How bad has FSU been? When Lucas was hurt, he was the only offensive player on FSU that had a PFF grade above 80.

He's only played 19 snaps, and not surprisingly, his pass block was graded out at 4.5.....

 

[frikkenfrakken]

I posted this on Peegs ---worth it to show how poorly Allen's staff recruited for a significant period of time:

Matt Weaver and Jared Kelly touched on some of the recruiting failures of IU--in particular on the DL on their podcast. I went back and looked through the 2020 (which would be the covid year provided to players), as the starting point. In theory, that would also be the first class after Allen achieved some success.

2020 Class

Rashawn Williams WR (gone after a year)

Christopher Keys DB (gone after two years)

Dexter Williams QB (gone after multiple injuries.

AJ Barner TE (transfer to Michigan)

Bryson Bonds S (still here)

Damjarjhe Lewis DT (gone to purdue)

Kahlil Benson OT (gone to Colorado)

Tim Baldwin RB (gone after two)

Jalen Mayla DE (gone after a year, transferred to UAB and then to Valdosta State and has 1 tackle....)

Brady Feeney OG transferred to Colgate and then stopped playing

Ty Wise LB Transferred after a year to Miami of Ohio and is now a star

Lem Whatley-Neeley CB Transferred to Kent State after a year and then never played.

David Baker WR Never played and signed a medical hardship waiver

Caleb Murphy SDE Moved to Center, started two games and never played again

Luke Haggard OT Juco guy, good player finished at IU

Luke Wiginton OT Never played gone after two years

Javon Swinton WR Barely played, caught a few balls, transferred to Eastern Michigan and saw limited minutes

Randy Holtz OG Never played left after a two or three years and doesn't play football anymore

Chris Bradberry OT Never played.

A LOT of misses especially on the OL and every Grant Heard WR recruit. Big misses at the DL as well. Only Barner and Bonds stuck for 4 years. Only 3 transfers came in

2021 Class

Donven McCulley QB-WR switch was a good one. Struggling this year but lots of ability

Malachi Holt-Bennett WR- another Heard recruit. Transferred out to UAB and still doesn't produce

Jaquez Smith WR-another heard recruit. Never played transferred to Missouri State and still doesn't play

Maurice Freeman LB/ S transferred out first year to liberty and doesn't play

Aaron Steinfeldt TE: Not playing anymore--I think gone because of injuries

Trent Howland RB: not much of a player until last year, but he transferred out. Decent enough.

Larry Smith CB: Transferred/left. No clue what he is or was doing.

Joshua Sales OT: Transferred to Purdue where he gets lit up every game

Cooper Jones DL: lots of position switches back and forth. Depth player

Jordyn Williams WR: Once again, another Heard recruit who never played. Transferred to Jax state then to central. Bit player

Vinny Fiacble OG: Hasn't really played out this year.

Transfers that came were mixed bags--DJ Mathews, Carpenter, Carr and Anderson were good, the rest were just guys and the much needed DL help, especially at tackle, was from Kramer-not a BIG10 player

David Holloman RB: transferred to GVSU and barely plays

Jordan Grier S: Transferred out to Memphis and barely plays

James Evans P: Great punter.

So Heard continues his magnificent recruiting efforts in 2021, and we follow up terrible DL recruiting with even worse DL recruiting

2022 Class

Dasan McCullough LB: gone after a year

Carter Smith OT: Great player

Brady Foley TE: Still on the roster but doesn't play

Phillip Dunnam S: Transferred

Trevell Mullen CB: Transferred to James Madison. Didn't play last year and doesn't appear to have played yet this far (no stats recorded)

Nick James DT: Transferred to Pitt

Isaiah Jones LB: He's finally starting to get minutes and doing okay

Omar Cooper WR: doing well in a crowded room

Vensen Sneed DE: Not much contribution

Richard Thomas DE: Transferred away, barely plays now at Florida Atlantic

J'Mari Monette DL: No contribution

Bray Lynch OT: He's gonna be good

Jamari Sharpe CB has some ability--could be a good one

DJ Moore G: Gone--don't even think he is playing football

Ryan Miller TE: Tight end--retired for medical reasons

James Monds CB: Transferred

Jaylin Lucas RB: Transferred

Cam Camper WR: Good player, hurt a lot and then transferred

Kaiden Turner LB: started one game. Not much else

Brendan Sorsby QB; started for a chunk of last season and transferred

Kam Perry WR: never played and transferred

Louis Moore S: Good player, transferred

Brought in 15 transfers that year and guys who were legit BIG 10 players were Tevis, Henderson, Shivers, Simmons and Jennings. Not a great group of transfers-and it showed up on the field

2023 Class

The 2023 class is probably too young to judge, but it is important to note that of the 17 HS recruits, 8 transferred out within a year. Of the 23 Transfers we took in, 7 transferred out after a year, and of the remaining 16, ten were quality players. Allen had to to hit on nearly all these transfers and it just didn't work out.

You could see the recruiting unravel contemporaneously with it happening, but when you look back, it is astounding how poor recruiting went coming off of two good seasons-- in particular the DL, WR and OL positions --just not enough contributors (or in the case of Grant Heard's recruits, just one whiff after the next that left Allen in a huge hole--and it showed up the last two years of his tenure--not good enough receiver play and slow--what many of us pointed out, and that is exactly what Cignetti said.

Interesting read, although I suspect most teams have a lot of transfers after their coach gets fired, especially a players coach like Allen.

Also, it's funny how you bag on the recruiting misses, but when it comes to Jaylin Lucas, you just skip over the part where he was a (Freshman) All-American. Instead, you just put "transferred." Like that's all he did.

Anyhow, surprised you left out the kid who got charged with Robbery. Maybe he was a 2019 kid.

 

[Mark Milton]

Interesting read, although I suspect most teams have a lot of transfers after their coach gets fired, especially a players coach like Allen.

Also, it's funny how you bag on the recruiting misses, but when it comes to Jaylin Lucas, you just skip over the part where he was a (Freshman) All-American. Instead, you just put "transferred." Like that's all he did.

Anyhow, surprised you left out the kid who got charged with Robbery. Maybe he was a 2019 kid.

You wrote "I suspect most teams have a lot of transfers after their coach gets fired, especially a players coach like Allen". Well suspicions aside, can show me facts where a team has lost as many players as Indiana has, and has done well? Bet you can't

What would you like to me to say about Lucas? So great, he was good as a kick returner his freshman year and was an all american returner. He's gone, didn't replicate his success, couldn't pass block a lick, and struggled with his reads at the LOS. Even Allen figured that one out. So yes, it is a miss because he ain't here.. I put that detailed assessment and analysis out there of 3 classes, and the best you can do is say 'but but but Jailyn Lucas'. Babble speak. A contrarian behind a keyboard-what a surprise.

I didn't leave anyone out. The player you refer to, which could have been a button or two punch for you to confirm, was Da'Shaun Brown from Wisconsin who was yet ANOTHER Grant Heard bedshitting result, this time from the class of 2019. Jordan Jakes--another Heard WR recruit that was poor and left.

If we want to look at the 2019 class, look no further than the sorry state of DT we recruited--Jeramy Passmore, CJ Person, Juan Harris and Antoine Whitner and Sio. Only Sio worked out. Not a measure of success

 

[frikkenfrakken]

You wrote "I suspect most teams have a lot of transfers after their coach gets fired, especially a players coach like Allen". Well suspicions aside, can show me facts where a team has lost as many players as Indiana has, and has done well? Bet you can't

What would you like to me to say about Lucas? So great, he was good as a kick returner his freshman year and was an all american returner. He's gone, didn't replicate his success, couldn't pass block a lick, and struggled with his reads at the LOS. Even Allen figured that one out. So yes, it is a miss because he ain't here.. I put that detailed assessment and analysis out there of 3 classes, and the best you can do is say 'but but but Jailyn Lucas'. Babble speak. A contrarian behind a keyboard-what a surprise.

I didn't leave anyone out. The player you refer to, which could have been a button or two punch for you to confirm, was Da'Shaun Brown from Wisconsin who was yet ANOTHER Grant Heard bedshitting result, this time from the class of 2019. Jordan Jakes--another Heard WR recruit that was poor and left.

If we want to look at the 2019 class, look no further than the sorry state of DT we recruited--Jeramy Passmore, CJ Person, Juan Harris and Antoine Whitner and Sio. Only Sio worked out. Not a measure of success

Ummm, Indiana appears to doing well after all those transfers so that's good. Seems like we might have better things to focus on than where the Jeremy Passmore's of the world went. Saw him play this year....in memorial stadium no less.

I never said you left anyone out. Just pointing out that your coverage seems biased, focused on the negative. And now doesn't seem like the time for an autopsy on the Allen years. Even if it was, shocker, the team that sucked had sucky players.

When a tree dies, I don't need to know where every leaf went, especially after someone cuts it down and plants a better one. But hey, call me names and drag out 1000 word posts about why we used to suck, if youre into it, I guess. Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Mark Milton]

Ummm, Indiana appears to doing well after all those transfers so that's good. Seems like we might have better things to focus on than where the Jeremy Passmore's of the world went. Saw him play this year....in memorial stadium no less.

I never said you left anyone out. Just pointing out that your coverage seems biased, focused on the negative. And now doesn't seem like the time for an autopsy on the Allen years. Even if it was, shocker, the team that sucked had sucky players.

When a tree dies, I don't need to know where every leaf went, especially after someone cuts it down and plants a better one. But hey, call me names and drag out 1000 word posts about why we used to suck, if youre into it, I guess. Whatever floats your boat.

you have contradicted yourself multiple times in just two posts. Your original pithy jab specifically stated: "Anyhow, surprised you left out the kid who got charged with Robbery". So when you state "I never said you left anyone out", that is not accurate.

I have a problem with a guy who just looks to be a contrarian, and you were with your dopey comment about Jailyn Lucas. Then you complain about words, words, words, yet you read it all. Maybe don't read if it gives you a headache? Seems to me like you were trying to create some kind conflict for the sake of creating a conflict. Just a quick perusal of your other posts would seemingly confirm that assessment--you stir up shit.

The issue with terrible recruiting over a pattern of years is a problem--there only 3-4 Allen recruits that are in the upper classman status left on the roster. Take a look at the roster imbalance going into 2025--certainly not Cignetti's making, but he has done an amazing job of patchworking his first class with an unconventional transfer policy--namely 13 guys from his previous school came with him. That is a one off. Allen's failures force Cignetti to continue to dip heavily into the portal because of the class imbalance, with the hope that in 2 years the classes are rebalanced and allows the development of the youth and maybe only having to rely upon the portal for 8-10 players. So all the trees, new trees and leaves you want to talk about, you have missed the moral of story in your effort to just be a contrarian. This is exactly the conversation I had with Scott Dolson --and to his credit, he was all over it and got it.

If you don't want to read my shit, don't--it seems like there are a fair amount of people that do.

 

[td75]

The transfer portal allows coaches to get kids that have already proven their worth. Indiana's current team is littered with kids that had big success elsewhere and then came here for a one hundred thousand dollar payday. It is working out nicely for schools like Duke, Indiana, UNLV, Kentucky, etc.

The transfer portal allows you to recruit and PAY proven commodities. The days of recruiting 18 year old prospects who haven't put it on paper yet, are quickly going by the wayside.

Regarding the initial topic, Allen obviously failed at developing the high school kids he brought here. He developed a few these last few years but not nearly enough. Couple that with very mediocre hires, and it is what it is....

 

[Crossblock]

Wondering what Jaylin Lucas is thinking these days? I'm betting he got an ok NIL from FSU but man they are a hot dumpster fire of a program.

From what I have seen from Florida State this year He must be thinking 2 things.
1. Can't anyone get Me the damn ball on Offense?
2. Does anybody We play have a kick off man Who can't reach the End Zone and allow Me to attempt a return?

 

[Mark Milton]

The transfer portal allows coaches to get kids that have already proven their worth. Indiana's current team is littered with kids that had big success elsewhere and then came here for a one hundred thousand dollar payday. It is working out nicely for schools like Duke, Indiana, UNLV, Kentucky, etc.

The transfer portal allows you to recruit and PAY proven commodities. The days of recruiting 18 year old prospects who haven't put it on paper yet, are quickly going by the wayside.

Regarding the initial topic, Allen obviously failed at developing the high school kids he brought here. He developed a few these last few years but not nearly enough. Couple that with very mediocre hires, and it is what it is....

Recruiting high school players and developing players will always be a priority. From an economic standpoint alone, it is cheaper to pay high school kids than transfer portal guys. Second, with just the transfer losses (i.e., teams that lost players), the top 10 for the last year were:

1. Colorado (Deion playing mad scientist)
2. Indiana (new coach)
3. MSU (new coach)
4. Alabama (new coach)
5. Houston (new coach)
6. Cincy (2nd year coach who is clearing out Fickel's classes)
7. Georgia Tech (2nd year coach)
8. Arkansas (coach on his last legs with 6 starters leaving)
9. Texas A & M (new coach)
10. Louisville (had huge portion of guys leave--only 3 starters left)

Going through the next 10 teams, all but one had 1s or second year coaches.

Most of the departures at decent teams were guys who simply didn't play or played a little and were either super young or 4th or 5th year guys looking for a fresh start. For example, take Khurris Perry out of Alabama--barely saw the field but was demanding huge NIL. We took a pass (thank God), and he went to Va Tech and hasn't seen the field there either.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

From what I have seen from Florida State this year He must be thinking 2 things.
1. Can't anyone get Me the damn ball on Offense?
2. Does anybody We play have a kick off man Who can't reach the End Zone and allow Me to attempt a return?

Jaylin is out for the year, injured during the Boston College game. He will be in street clothes the remainder.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Looking at the 4 classes of recruits from 2019-2022 (basically what would be the core veterans on the team right now) we kept 20 kids out of 93 who signed. Essentially, out of each class, we kept 5 per class.