Pharrell Payne from Minny
- Thread starter Vern Pain
- Start date
One hell of a lot better than Sparks if he's a backup center. Better rebounder than anyone on last year's roster not named Kelel Ware.
I’m saying are we playing two 6’9 post players together? Or is he a backup option for the 4 and 5? I honestly think we need to get away from a 4 that can’t stretch the floor.
Play Mm at the 4 and MR at the 5
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I think we can do both. With 80 min at the 4 and 5, I can see 30, 30, 20 for MR, MM, and PP.
Exactly. Need a 20-25 mpg rim protector 5. Can play half the time with Reneau and the other half as the lone big in a more modern lineup.
Its a strange feeling to know we'll probably get either/both Payne and Williams, and that I'll be pissed off about it because we'd still not be competitive without better guards.
Mack, Tucker, Reneau, Williams, and Payne would be a Final Four level "front court" 3-5 rotation. But as we've seen, can't get to the Final Four without guards driving the bus.
Just need shooting with those minutes assigned. You throw in Galloway and you have 3 guys in the lineup most of the time who cannot spread the floor
Still plenty of openings. The Bloomington South / Bradley kid is going to visit. Pretty sure there's at least a couple more guards scheduled to visit.
No, I know there is. And there will likely be more. I just want Woody to change his philosophy and strategy. So if we bring in Payne and Williams...while both very talented basketball players...it'll further my concerns that he has no F-ing clue how to construct a modern college basketball roster.
I highly doubt he wants to be a backup center he started at Minnesota. Pretty sure he will go somewhere he can start.
If he's visiting, he's hearing enough of what he wants to check us out. $$$, and TJD and Ware, combined are very compelling reasons for bigs to listen to what Woody has to say right now. Same goes for Williams from Drexel, whom I prefer over Payne as that 20-25 minute rim protector guy we need. I just worry about getting them BOTH, and the playing time remaining big man heavy 3-5.
It will be either Williams or Payne not both.
Probably should have recruited a high school big that could come in and develop and give you 10-15 min a night
I think we will get at 2 -3 guards. I am trying to decide if Trey can be our PG. Does a lot of good things but gotta hit 75%+ of FT and 33%+ of 3's. Could see a lineup of Trey, shooting guard of 38%+, Tuck, Mack, and MR. Maybe that is my hope for Trey being a 5 yr guy from IN.
Payne is a MUCH better option than a HS kid, in my opinion. Assuming he has a good attitude and stuff. He's got 2 years of eligibility left.
For next years team, I'd strongly prefer Williams. He's the rim protecting, versatile defending big we need behind/with/whatever, to go with Reneau.
like you said is he willing to come in and play behind…Williams and Mr. That’s why I said it would have been good to bring in a high school kid for 10-15 mint
Trey showed flashes of being a pretty good PG this past year. But for an actual consistently good, 2nd weekend type NCAA team, I don't think Trey is the answer at PG. Need someone like Perkins.
I do think with all we've kept, if we can get a couple starter level guards, we could become a solid NCAA tournament level team this next year.
Payne will want to start. I watched him this year multiple times and he would of been one of the three main guys at Minnesota next year. No way will he want to come off the bench. If he does come expect the double post again imo.
Doubtful you're getting both Williams and Pharrell. They're more or less the same player. Probably taking one or the other, and not sure both those guys would commit to the same school because of that. Ben Humrichous is a stretch 4 type who can offer minutes at the 4 that allows someone like Reneau and Williams/Pharrell to platoon a full 40 minutes at the 5. We're all over Carlyle and Rice and have a visit scheduled with Hickman. The former two are dynamic guards who are 180 degree upgrade from last years back court and Hickman is an elite shooter with decent handles. I would keep an eye on Ryan Conwell too if he does indeed enter the portal.
Idk. Tuck, MM, and a good SG like the kid from SLU, and that gives 3. I know, Tucker and and Trey will need some improvement but it's not a horrible lineup. Hell, maybe MR can improve and step out more.
1 million and proven NBA prep to come off the bench and still play 25 minutes at IU.
Or less than half that, and starting at Minny.
I get what you're saying...but I doubt being an obvious starter sways what could be a very similar decision to what I laid out. Without knowing exact numbers obviously.
He'd be smart to put the full court press back on Boogie Fland. Unfortunately I feel like these guys concerns (he and McNeeley) are about fit and style of play, which doesn't bode well to get them. But a solid rim protector, Boogie Fland and a couple decent shooters and that would be the making of a pretty decent roster.
Payne started 20 games last year at Minnesota. Starting isn't the end be all, it's more minute allocation and rotations. I don't see Payne being a 30 minute guy at this level regardless if he starts or not. Play him 25 mpg at the 5.
Just saw Joey Hart in the portal. Maybe not a bad get with 3 yrs left. Don't even have to pay him. Just get him a Hard Truth deal and full time DD for his dad.
I like Fland as a player but he's a one and done regardless. I think you'd be much better served to get someone like Myles Rice who is already 21 AND has 3 years of eligibility left who has already proven himself at the P5 level.
Also hopefully Woody changes his philosophy and plays MM more at the 4 so we can stretch defenses and spread the floor better. Galloway would be much more effective if the lane was clear for him to penetrate and kick
Carlyle
Hickman
Rice
Williams
Late HS big signee (no clue if there are any out there)
Trey
Anthony
Malik
Mack
Gabe
Jakai
Bryson
I know if the above signings happened, we'd have no shot at the Belmont wing...but he'd be a huge get instead of most of the guys on the top list. But assuming not, any of the other guards we're in on would be great if they wanted to fill all 13.
That'd give the team likely 4-5 solid returning players for the year after this too. And top to bottom, would be Woody's best and most versatile roster he'll have had at IU.
Forgot about him...
Not sure Woody is the type of coach for him. But yeah, for sure, as long as he's a hard worker.
Yeah! A backup that’s going to play more than the starter because he can’t stay out of foul trouble.
Why? That's a narrative created by idiot fans and media .. the style of play is dictated by the players the coach has available. You don't shoot threes with bad shooters just to fit fan fantasy optics.
Give any coach a good shooting team and they'll shoot more .. the strength has been in the interior, the glaring weakness has been the perimeter... and that perimeter has for three years sucked balls .. We had the lowest production backcourt in the league last year by a considerable amount.
Should Woodson have run more plays for the weak ass perimeter just to fit some arbitrary style of play optic? Should he have gotten Kopp or Stewart more shots in lieu of getting it to TJD? That would have been f**king idiotic..
Now should he recruit better and get better perimeter players? Yes, the backcourt needs and has needed a major upgrade.... but this style of play narrative as being why players don't sign, is exaggerated bullshit. IU got stuck with poor guards and have done a poorer job replacing and upgrading them.
fwiw - The players know the basics of plays better than idiot fans, they know there's options in every play for a guy that can knock down a shot .. and they know IU basically runs the same shit as everyone else does .. Offense has become homogenized.. it's PnR, Zoom, Horns, Spanish, Floppy, Flex etc with variations and combinations of each ... there's not much difference anymore.
Fans see teams with guys that CAN knock down shots and think it's because the +5 magic wand of super duper 3pt offense the coach uses is what causes it ... it's the Jims and Joes not the X and Os ....
Get some f**king shooters and the offense and "style of play" will change drastically.
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Exactly. Give IU Newton and Spencer from UCONN and we are a top 15 team. Give IU Hawkins and Newton from UCONN last year and we are a top 15 team.
He's had 3 years to change it. He's publicly said he thinks the game is still inside out. AND we have compelling evidence that even with the guys we've had, we were at our best when we were pulling our bigs further away from the basket and leaving the lane more open. 2 years ago, half way through the year, he FINALLY started pulling TJD away from the basket more...viola, better passing, better rhythm shots for others, even more room for TJD work going to the basket, and our offensive efficiency improved dramatically as a result.
You would have thought that would have become his main offense, or he would have focused a lot more on it...nope...this past year we ran a ton of the same, low movement, double post, dump it down to Malik or Kalel, and space away...CRAP...that has bogged us down since he arrived. We did run more high ball screen stuff too, and a fair amount of zoom action for Malik away from the ball. But way, way, way too much traditional post action.
Woody has had ample opportunity to change his teams. He's CHOSEN not to, up to this point.
He's mainly coaching what he knows, post ISO stuff from the Carmelo Anthony NBA era. And he's sprinkling in some more modern zoom and high ball screen and lobbing action.
But to say he's doing all this solely because of the guys he's had on his roster, is giving him WAY too much credit. Again, he had 3 offseasons before this one to change all this.
I'm one of the "idiot" message board posters and I've been whining about it since a handful of games in to his first season.
Heck woodson is on so many guys they may have to pay him just to be allwoed on the team.
In NCAA with the 4 ft narrower lane it is ... relative to NBA. There's far more post play in college ball.
fwiw - I don't dissect statements made during interviews or put much meaning into them because I don't know what he defines as inside out... or to what degree the in outweighs the out. Basically IDRGAFF what he says or doesn't say..
I do know that he has recruited the players we need in that aspect but hasn't closed the deal. Give him those type of players and the narrative will change...
It's the recruiting that worries me, he made some major mistakes last year. Hopefully they learn and adapt. It's not the x and o and certainly not "style of play" ... style of play can change with the players available..
What IU has been missing since Crean, is not only shooting, but a perimeter triple threat .... the guy that can create when execution breaks down, the guy that can hit when the clock is short, the guy that makes offenses look good.
Tennessee and Barnes generally run some painfully boring and predictable shit. As boring as IU. They only had one good shooter in 23 and had a terrible offense that at times had long scoring draughts... Knecht changed the offense they could use and they improved almost 30 spots from the previous year. It had nothing to do with style of play, they played the same boring ass predictable defensive style they always have under Barnes.. it had everything to do with Knecht's ability.
In NCAA with the 4 ft narrower lane it is ... relative to NBA. There's far more post play in college ball.
fwiw - I don't dissect statements made during interviews or put much meaning into them because I don't know what he defines as inside out... or to what degree the in outweighs the out. Basically IDRGAFF what he says or doesn't say..
I do know that he has recruited the players we need in that aspect but hasn't closed the deal. Give him those type of players and the narrative will change...
It's the recruiting that worries me, he made some major mistakes last year. Hopefully they learn and adapt. It's not the x and o and certainly not "style of play" ... style of play can change with the players available..
What IU has been missing since Crean, is not only shooting, but a perimeter triple threat .... the guy that can create when execution breaks down, the guy that can hit when the clock is short, the guy that makes offenses look good.
Tennessee and Barnes generally run some painfully boring and predictable shit. As boring as IU. They only had one good shooter in 23 and had a terrible offense that at times had long scoring draughts... Knecht changed the offense they could use and they improved almost 30 spots from the previous year. It had nothing to do with style of play, they played the same boring ass predictable defensive style they always have under Barnes.. it had everything to do with Knecht's ability.
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