OK Constitutional scholars

[Marvin the Martian]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

 

[mcmurtry66]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

No constitutional scholar here but that is a mess. S.Ct. Would have to decide

 

[Hank Reardon]

I would imagine that they might interpret "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President" to mean, "be elected" President. But yes, as written it seems like a crack. No chance that happens though. If you were Kamala Harris would you really want your presidency to be seen as a facade for the Real President behind the scenes? I don't think so.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I would imagine that they might interpret "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President" to mean, "be elected" President. But yes, as written it seems like a crack. No chance that happens though. If you were Kamala Harris would you really want your presidency to be seen as a facade for the Real President behind the scenes? I don't think so.

Obama is having fun. Why would he want that mess

 

[NPT]

Obama is having fun. Why would he want that mess

POWER.. Seriously if I could be appointed president tomorrow I would turn it down immediately. Arguing with a bunch of other politicians is NOT my idea of fun.

 

[BradStevens]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

It’s a good question. It could go either way based on the text.

I would argue that he could and that if Kamala somehow resigned or died or was incapacitated in office, Obama could serve out her term.

 

[BradStevens]

Obama is having fun. Why would he want that mess

Partying on Lake Cuomo with Clooney getting old?

 

[mcmurtry66]

Partying on Lake Cuomo with Clooney getting old?

Drinks on lake cuomo with soon to be single Clooney or field questions from doocy about why Harris made me border czar

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I would imagine that they might interpret "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President" to mean, "be elected" President. But yes, as written it seems like a crack. No chance that happens though. If you were Kamala Harris would you really want your presidency to be seen as a facade for the Real President behind the scenes? I don't think so.

I don't think she would offer, I don't think he would accept. It is more of a thought exercise and a chance to suggest the 22nd isn't written very well. I suspect there are many holes elsewhere no one has bothered to think through.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I don't think she would offer, I don't think he would accept. It is more of a thought exercise and a chance to suggest the 22nd isn't written very well. I suspect there are many holes elsewhere no one has bothered to think through.

Or test

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

Elect A.
Elect A again.
Elect B, who picks A as their VP and resigns after inauguration. Rinse and repeat.

That interpretation would allow a continuous Presidency, so my bet is "no."

 

[BradStevens]

Elect A.
Elect A again.
Elect B, who picks A as their VP and resigns after inauguration. Rinse and repeat.

That interpretation would allow a continuous Presidency, so my bet is "no."

Some justices would buy your argument. But it isn’t an originalist one focused on the text (I don’t think that’s a knock against it, though). This is the same kind of legal debate that broke out in conservative circles re the presidential immunity decision, by the way.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Elect A.
Elect A again.
Elect B, who picks A as their VP and resigns after inauguration. Rinse and repeat.

That interpretation would allow a continuous Presidency, so my bet is "no."

I think you are correct, but if one hangs their hat on a plain text reading (I do not) the answer is yes.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Elect A.
Elect A again.
Elect B, who picks A as their VP and resigns after inauguration. Rinse and repeat.

That interpretation would allow a continuous Presidency, so my bet is "no."

One would think that would be the correct answer but the problem is that marvin is right in that it is poorly written and leaves room for interpretation.

Can't take for granted anymore that SC will side with common sense.

 

[NPT]

I don't think she would offer, I don't think he would accept. It is more of a thought exercise and a chance to suggest the 22nd isn't written very well. I suspect there are many holes elsewhere no one has bothered to think through.

I agree with that.... after being head dog he's not gonna play second place to anyone.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

According to a strict reading, yes, Obama could run for VP. But scholars are divided.

 

[Hank Reardon]

I think you are correct, but if one hangs their hat on a plain text reading (I do not) the answer is yes.

Don't they hang their hats on "original intent." I realize that these amendments don't date back to the framers, but the same standard could be applied there. The intent was clearly that no one be President for more than two terms, regardless of the hole in the language. That's how I think it would be decided.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Don't they hang their hats on "original intent." I realize that these amendments don't date back to the framers, but the same standard could be applied there. The intent was clearly that no one be President for more than two terms, regardless of the hole in the language. That's how I think it would be decided.

When the 12th was passed it made it clear that the constitutional requirements for POTUS again applied to VPOTUS. We are talking age, residency, citizenship. The question is whether or not the 22nd adds a requirement based on terms already served. By a strict reading of the text, it does not, but that's clearly the intent.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

For fun, I don't think what I suggest below will happen, but I believe it shows a problem in how the 22nd Amendment was written.

Here is the 22nd Amendment, at least the important part, and I have highlighted the part of concern:

No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once. But this Article shall not apply to any person holding the office of President when this Article was proposed by the Congress, and shall not prevent any person who may be holding the office of President, or acting as President, during the term within which this Article becomes operative from holding the office of President or acting as President during the remainder of such term.​

​

Next up is the 12th Amendment, which states, "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States".

So, the VP must be eligible to be president. The 22nd, does NOT say that a person serving two terms cannot be president, just that they cannot be elected.

So, could Harris name Obama to be VP?

Obama isn’t eligible. Period. I think the answer is obvious.

A better question would be can Obama be elected to the House and then be elected Speaker.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Obama isn’t eligible. Period. I think the answer is obvious.

A better question would be can Obama be elected to the House and then be elected Speaker.

I think you are right, but as a thought exercise, make the case using "plain text reading". The plain text clearly says "elected". That is why I think it may not be a unanimous slam dunk.

 

[Hank Reardon]

Obama isn’t eligible. Period. I think the answer is obvious.

A better question would be can Obama be elected to the House and then be elected Speaker.

That'd probably be a cleaner path than having him named Secretary of Housing and Urban Development, then assigning him to be Designated Survivor, then blowing up the Capital Bldg with the entire rest of the government in it.

 

[IU_Hickory]

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

PS - if I have the Senate, I don't care about the White House.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Obama isn’t eligible. Period. I think the answer is obvious.

A better question would be can Obama be elected to the House and then be elected Speaker.

He doesn't need to be elected to the House to be named Speaker.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think you are right, but as a thought exercise, make the case using "plain text reading". The plain text clearly says "elected". That is why I think it may not be a unanimous slam dunk.

There is nothing about plain text reading that requires disregarding obvious intent.

 

[BradStevens]

Don't they hang their hats on "original intent." I realize that these amendments don't date back to the framers, but the same standard could be applied there. The intent was clearly that no one be President for more than two terms, regardless of the hole in the language. That's how I think it would be decided.

No, most originalists look at original meaning NOT intent. In other words, what was the meaning of the words used at the time of passage.