OG and Bryant

[Sope Creek]

Comparing numbers no..neither are great rebounders. Like I said I'm not talking who is the better player. Bryant has the better pro potential...davis doesn't get off the floor enough to play in the NBA plus he can't step out and knock down jumpers. Davis with a better system and coach will be a damn good college player

Did Wes Unseld EVER leave the floor while playing in college or the NBA?

I can't recall seeing him do so, ever . . .

. . . of course, he didn't need to. He was built like a sequoia stump, and had legs to match sequoia roots. Nobody could get close enough to any ball that was in his personal space with the way he positioned himself and then leaned on the opponents' legs and hips with that massive frame . . . you could make a great case for that same effect when talking about Willis Reed, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Dave Cowans (although he could jump), Dennis Rodman . . . and even Dwight Howard (when he decides he wants to) and Paul Milsap today . . .

. . . good rebounding isn't about jumping (although highlight reel spectacle rebounding is . . . there's a difference) . . . good rebounding is about court position, body position, body mass and strength, putting your body on the other guy and pure, unadulterated athletic (not violent) meanness . . . and length doesn't hurt.

 

[bsmitty08]

Did Wes Unseld EVER leave the floor while playing in college or the NBA?

I can't recall seeing him do so, ever . . .

. . . of course, he didn't need to. He was built like a sequoia stump, and had legs to match sequoia roots. Nobody could get close enough to any ball that was in his personal space with the way he positioned himself and then leaned on the opponents' legs and hips with that massive frame . . . you could make a great case for that same effect when talking about Willis Reed, Moses Malone, Karl Malone, Dave Cowans (although he could jump), Dennis Rodman . . . and even Dwight Howard and Paul Milsap today . . .

. . . good rebounding isn't about jumping (although highlight reel spectacle rebounding is . . . there's a difference) . . . good rebounding is about court position, body position, body mass and strength, putting your body on the other guy and pure, unadulterated athletic (not violent) meanness . . . and length doesn't hurt.

I understand what it takes to rebound....also have you watched the NBA recently? A 6'10 kid that plays below the rim and cant step out and hit a jumper will not be drafted. Hence...why Bryant is the better Pro prospect.

 

[Sope Creek]

I understand what it takes to rebound....also have you watched the NBA recently? A 6'10 kid that plays below the rim and cant step out and hit a jumper will not be drafted. Hence...why Bryant is the better Pro prospect.

I'm not convinced you do, but that's really not important. What is important is that we don't know whether Davis can play at or above the rim or not, simply because Crean didn't know how to coach a big man to play big. We'll know more about Davis this time next year.

As for hitting the jumper in the NBA . . . a 6'10" kid without a world-class handle who can't bang underneath won't sniff the NBA either, even if he can hit a mid-range jumper or the occasional 3. Let's face it, Bryant's 6'10" but he's no Kevin Durant with the ball . . . and his lower body strength and body mass don't allow him to play like Mo Lucas either. He's got some tools - soft hands, a pretty good motor for a big man and apparently a terrific work ethic - that are a good basis for building on. But he does lack the stuff I mentioned above if you're talking about NBA prospects.

I'm far happier that we have Archie taking over for the kids who can benefit from better - perhaps the thought really is "more realistic" - skills development and much better in-game tactics coaching, so they have a much better real-world basketball growth experience. As a fan, that's what's going to be the most fun to watch.

 

[stollcpa]

Oh I saw it but I think with him its more a coaching aspect vs an athletic one. Davis just doesn't get off the floor at all. Bryant can and has shown that ability. even though he doesn't do it every time.

You may very well be correct. I remember wanting to kill both him and Crean at the end of the Nebraska game. We had 3 point lead around the 3 minute mark and TB got a loose ball on defensive end. He leads the fast break and throws the ball out of bounds. Nebraska scored four straight points and we never led again. Crean was waving him up the court leading the break.

 

[iu papa]

Ooo

I agree Bryant has more potential. For sure. Davis offensive game is.......BAD.

Do not agree. Davis has much better shooting technique and will develope into a better scorer than Bryant. He is better around the rim than Bryant now. He is stronger and will be a better defensive player when coach Miller gets finished with him.

 

[Fredrica James]

Davis doesn't show it

If you've watched them both play, Davis is noticeably more athletic.

 

[Fredrica James]

Who considers Davis a better athlete than Bryant?

IU's coaches did. If you watch them play, it's obvious.

 

[bsmitty08]

IU's coaches did. If you watch them play, it's obvious.

How so? Bryant runs the floor well, Dunks around the rim, can step out and shoot. Davis to me looks like a true old school on the block player and he doesn't look more athletic. How often at 6'10 do you see him follow up a miss with a put back dunk or run the floor for a dunk? Bryant may be more clumsy but he runs the floor better and gets off the floor better.

 

[YOTHN]

How so? Bryant runs the floor well, Dunks around the rim, can step out and shoot. Davis to me looks like a true old school on the block player and he doesn't look more athletic. How often at 6'10 do you see him follow up a miss with a put back dunk or run the floor for a dunk? Bryant may be more clumsy but he runs the floor better and gets off the floor better.

I think the best way to explain whats wrong with Bryant is he isn't efficient with his athleticism. A lot of wasted motion. Davis is effective with his athleticism and under control. Bryant always looks like he's getting out muscled and up in the air and ineffective to often. Davis has great defensive footwork and timing on blocks. So Davis might not have the natural ability of Bryant but he looks like a better player because of how he uses what he does have.

 

[Sope Creek]

I think the best way to explain whats wrong with Bryant is he isn't efficient with his athleticism. A lot of wasted motion. Davis is effective with his athleticism and under control. Bryant always looks like he's getting out muscled and up in the air and ineffective to often. Davis has great defensive footwork and timing on blocks. So Davis might not have the natural ability of Bryant but he looks like a better player because of how he uses what he does have.

Bryant was better his freshman year than Bryant his soph year, and during his freshman year was IMO at least as good as Davis during Davis' freshman year. I honestly believe that Bryant has enough athleticism to be effective - and so does Davis - if he gets better big man coaching than Crean offered.

 

[Fredrica James]

How so? Bryant runs the floor well, Dunks around the rim, can step out and shoot. Davis to me looks like a true old school on the block player and he doesn't look more athletic. How often at 6'10 do you see him follow up a miss with a put back dunk or run the floor for a dunk? Bryant may be more clumsy but he runs the floor better and gets off the floor better.

Bryant runs the floor like a 5-8 guy with bad hips. It's painful to watchful.

 

[Sope Creek]

Bryant runs the floor like a 5-8 guy with bad hips. It's painful to watchful.

I agree he's not fluid when he runs, but it's not because he runs like a short guy. Looks to me like he has chicken legs, not much leg strength in his thighs and hips . . . and isn't all that limber either.

He runs hard, though, and has really good body control and soft hands when he's running out in front on the fast break beating his man down the court for a quick and easy layup/dunk. He's more like Cody in that respect than any other big we had during the Crean years, including Davis. That skill would be something for Davis to work on under Archie . . . IF that's what Archie wants from his big guys.

 

[bailey777]

Bryant runs the floor like a 5-8 guy with bad hips. It's painful to watchful.

Exactly why he is not going to be going anywhere. He is simply not an NBA player. JBJ and Bryant will both be back. OG will be gone and I think Johnson will be gone as well.

 

[jaypay23]

Did you watch TB get his shots blocked over and over this year? The big slow guy for GT in the NIT game blocked his shot three times in a row in a 10 second span. Not saying he doesn't have more potential but how's he going to get a shot off in the NBA?

He got a lot of shots blocked because of poor fundamentals such as lowering the shoulder and not going straight up. With proper training that should improve.I agree he is not the most athlethic but he does possess better skills then Davis and other big men.

 

[Fredrica James]

I agree he's not fluid when he runs, but it's not because he runs like a short guy. Looks to me like he has chicken legs, not much leg strength in his thighs and hips . . . and isn't all that limber either.

He runs hard, though, and has really good body control and soft hands when he's running out in front on the fast break beating his man down the court for a quick and easy layup/dunk. He's more like Cody in that respect than any other big we had during the Crean years, including Davis. That skill would be something for Davis to work on under Archie . . . IF that's what Archie wants from his big guys.

He runs in short, choppy strides rather than long, graceful ones. Athletic guys make it look easy. Less athletic ones, like Bryant, make it look tough. Conditioning doesn't seem to be the issue. Talent is the culprit.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

How so? Bryant runs the floor well, Dunks around the rim, can step out and shoot. Davis to me looks like a true old school on the block player and he doesn't look more athletic. How often at 6'10 do you see him follow up a miss with a put back dunk or run the floor for a dunk? Bryant may be more clumsy but he runs the floor better and gets off the floor better.

Davis is stronger, tougher and more willing to accept contact. Bryant is the better athlete in space. They are different athletes and saying one is "better" is ignorant. They are different types of athletes.

 

[Hoosier in Tokyo]

Bryant has way higher potential than Davis. Davis is 6'10 and plays like he is 6'6. Davis isn't the athlete bryant is

Watch them run up the court. Davis runs like a guard. Bryant looks like an old man with stiff knees. He is still weak in the lower body. Crean bragged about how Bryant improved his vertical leap by 8". He must have started at 0".

Crean talks up players. He did that with Newkirk when Yogi was here.

 

[82hoosier]

How so? Bryant runs the floor well, Dunks around the rim, can step out and shoot. Davis to me looks like a true old school on the block player and he doesn't look more athletic. How often at 6'10 do you see him follow up a miss with a put back dunk or run the floor for a dunk? Bryant may be more clumsy but he runs the floor better and gets off the floor better.

He is also a defensive liability who can't handle the ball but still puts his shoulder down and attempts to put in on the floor. Oh, and he has equal ability to get lost on offense as well as defense.

 

[bsmitty08]

He is also a defensive liability who can't handle the ball but still puts his should down and attempts to put in on the floor. Oh, and he equal ability to get lost on offense as well as defense.

Is that ability or coaching??? Bottom line is Bryant is the better prospect.

 

[travlinhoosier]

Does anyone know whether there's someone on the new staff, so far, who's got expertise in coaching big men?

 

[Sope Creek]

Does anyone know whether there's someone on the new staff, so far, who's got expertise in coaching big men?

I didn't see it when the announcement about Crean's departure was made, but I take it that all of Crean's staff, including Elston, were let go at the same time?

 

[82hoosier]

How often did we see players drift away from their defensive assignment and end up in nowhere land only to the ball be kicked back to their primary defensive responsibility for a wide open shot. Most players thought they were capable of guarding one and helping on another only to prove that they could do neither very well.

 

[VanHoosier]

Exactly why he is not going to be going anywhere. He is simply not an NBA player. JBJ and Bryant will both be back. OG will be gone and I think Johnson will be gone as well.

Where is Johnson going?? I personally don't get the "OG to the NBA" talk. He's coming off repaired knee. Would a GM really take a chance on him, especially a lottery pick?

I don't see anyone leaving, unless it's a transfer. The NBA is not an option for any of the current players at this point in their careers.

 

[IU Scott]

Where is Johnson going?? I personally don't get the "OG to the NBA" talk. He's coming off repaired knee. Would a GM really take a chance on him, especially a lottery pick?

I don't see anyone leaving, unless it's a transfer. The NBA is not an option for any of the current players at this point in their careers.

Noel from UK was drafted in the top 10 even after tearing his Knee up. Also Sumner from Xavier is going into the draft despite hurting his knee later than OG did.

 

[T.M.P.]

Where is Johnson going?? I personally don't get the "OG to the NBA" talk. He's coming off repaired knee. Would a GM really take a chance on him, especially a lottery pick?

I don't see anyone leaving, unless it's a transfer. The NBA is not an option for any of the current players at this point in their careers.

He's projected as a lottery pick on most draft boards only dropping a few spots since the injury.

 

[ndhuntington]

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

Lol @ Davis being more athletic then Bryant.
Seriously people?
Bryant would run circles around Davis.
That said, David looks like he has alot of potential. No reason ive seen yet why he couldn't elevate his game to swanigan like type basketball.
He rebounds just as good as Bryant per stats.
No reason he couldn't put up some decent points steals,blocks and double doubles

 

[SpicelandRic]

Bryant made a huge mistake by not going after his 1st year..If i were him id go now and hope im 1st round or top 2nd..

 

[hoosier_est_1984]

Bryant made a huge mistake by not going after his 1st year..If i were him id go now and hope im 1st round or top 2nd..

There's a thick line between hope and being rational.
I honestly think he'd be lucky to be drafted at the moment.
But who knows

 

[rwilky48]

I agree Bryant has more potential. For sure. Davis offensive game is.......BAD.

can't shoot 3s . let's hope those days are gone. that's guards an forwards job. not Bryant's. He sucked at 3 ball.

 

[IUBBALLAWOL]

He and OG are both gone. JBJ may leave too but won't get drafted.

 

[mazz]

Watch them run up the court. Davis runs like a guard. Bryant looks like an old man with stiff knees. He is still weak in the lower body. Crean bragged about how Bryant improved his vertical leap by 8". He must have started at 0".

Davis is a better athlete. He looked comfortable in the post. I look for him to improve with more time on the court. He needs to learn how to defend without fouling.

Davis is much much better in the post but he doesn't run or jump well. I do live having Davis four years tho. I think he should be a load next yr on the block.

 

[Frosty83]

The scary thing is I listened to a Glass interview this morning and he said as of the Georgia Tech game he was planning on bringing him back. I guess that changed the next day or two but it appears it was a very close call when it should not of been a close call.

Davis will improve as a 2nd year player because he is self motivated to get better.

The IU coach is no longer there so move on.
Everything doesn't have to be a comparison that he wouldn't get better or win if someone else was coaching. How quickly people forget who was coach of the year and praised as one of the developers of player talent. You are starting to sound like Bob Knight regarding former IU administrators and it shouldn't even be personal for you.