Woodson said at the beginning of the season that this is the most talented team he has recruited since being at Indiana. Maybe he can get the players but doesn’t know how to coach. There is no way that we continue this year with CMW. He should just save face and say he is tired from the coaching grind and retiring after this year.
Most Talent=What
- Thread starter SBow
- Start date
3 years were enough to judge Woodson. Our fantastic management decided to not do their job and throw money at the problem. And, here we are. Cig can turn around IU football in one year with a roster like 5 times the size, and these are the results Woodson has in year 4 with IU basketball. Management is the problem, not Woodson.
Very respectfully, I disagree. It's management AND Woodson!
No it’s Woodson…leadership, culture and coaching are lacking. This roster is pretty damn good
It's both. Bromance and nepotism. All the old 60-80 year old IU fans got rheir orgasm of wishes to have an old player run things and this is the result.
Speaking of Talent...
www.espn.com
CJ Gunn Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN
Complete career NCAAM stats for the DePaul Blue Demons Guard CJ Gunn on ESPN. Includes points, rebounds, and assists.
Kaleb Banks 2024-25 Stats per Game - NCAAM - ESPN
The 2024-25 NCAAM season stats per game for Kaleb Banks of the Tulane Green Wave on ESPN. Includes full stats, per opponent, for regular and postseason.
Hmmm, throwing money at the problem? All you on here from fans is "NIL". Lets buy us a team! Maybe you guys need to just buy yourself a chia pet, water it and watch it develop.
Don't let the HYPE about this roster continue, average at best. Do you realize at the beginning of the season, Caryle was a top 20 draft pick(hype), now he is rated one of the lowest guards in the BT, he was rated 1100+ player in the country last year! How many 5 year players are on this roster(A lot)? They knew that these guys couldn't shoot the 3 and hells bells guess what! Ballo is good, but probably the 4 or 5th best big in the BT. Forwards are soft and slow. No true PG. They have 6 losses bye and average of over 20+ and now are starting to get into the meat of the BT. Good Luck.
I actually agree with this assessment. Our roster is not good. Blame this on Woodson and staff. Don't let the stars and generic accolades fool you.
As one of those 60 somethings, who stays in touch with a lot of the folks I attended IU with, I can say with certainty, the second sentence is pretty much nonsense.
We all listened to the hype after the big donors bought out Archie's contract. Was this the moment IU convinces Brad to come? Can we lure Villanova Jay here? Maybe Bennett? Nope, out of nowhere, it was Woody. As someone who spent their first two years watching Woody play, we obviously hoped he could do well here.
Talent is there, they just don’t have a good system, leadership or culture.
There is enough talent on this year's roster to have been a top 25 team all year. We all know who the problem is. This team cannot guard or hit the tree, they do not communicate well and are constantly beat on the pick n roll. The mid-range shot is defended weakly again no comm and out of position. That leaves the post, very talented players who have yet to gel halfway through the season, still our best area of the floor. Tree shots, the tree, mid-range and post. We do one well. Recipe for disaster.
I don’t know one 60-80 year old fans who got their wishes for an old guy to run things.
I meant close to the program who got their former IU player knight in shining armour to coach the hoosiers.
I meant the important old guard boosters who are big donors got their former IU star fantasy wish.
Not by me on Carlyle, I figured he would struggle to average 6ppg. Good #s for a shitty team before transfer tends to overrate them.
If management did its job, Woodson wouldn't be coaching.
I agree on Carlyle. I had a lot of doubts, but his play is far worse than anyone could have predicted. Last year he hit 44% on 2s, 32% on 3s. I expected some small improvement on those #s, but the Woody Effect kicked in, and now he's 35% on 2s and 23% on 3s. He was also vastly overrated as a defender. The only thing he's appeared to have learned in that area is to go for every shot fake he sees. He has to be among the worst players in the BT not on the Washington or Minnesota teams to have gotten as much time as he has. Only area he's improved in are TOs. He's decreased those #s. I think the theory was he'd prosper playing less time as the primary ball handler and concentrating on scoring, but that hasn't paned out.
To continue my rant.............there are two positions in the portal where good players are a dime a dozen....2 & 3. There must be 40 portal 2s that have been better this year than KC. Ok, I feel better now.
Supposedly Isaiah was excuses for Woody in Indy or somewhere. I understand the old Knight guys have great experiences that bind them. BUT they also have to recognize what’s best for IU. They should be helping push Woodson to a soft landing out of coaching rather than what they’re doing.
no kidding. I hated seeing CJ go.Speaking of Talent...
CJ Gunn Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN
Complete career NCAAM stats for the DePaul Blue Demons Guard CJ Gunn on ESPN. Includes points, rebounds, and assists.
Under Woodson again, he would have been doing what Carlyle is doing this season. He is a solid player at best playing at Depaul. Good for him to find a better situation.
Great coaches put guys in the best situations. I can't wait till we get that great coach.
It was Juwan Howard’s early success at Michigan that provided the impetus for Woodson’s hire, plus the hiring of a Knight disciple in an act of desperation. When all else fails, go back to what it was that once got us there. Juwan ultimately didn’t work out for Michigan and I suspect Mike won’t either for IU…unless he pulls a rabbit out of the hat he never wears.
How do we develop culture when our strategy is to buy a roster every year?
Culture is defined and inculcated by the coach.
It was a head scratcher. Like I said, it seemed that there was a lot of excitement when they pulled the trigger with Miller. Maybe there was desperation. Did plans A,B, and C all blow up?
Yes, I think we settled.
The excitement was that many thought that he was a great hire. But those are just words.
Did anyone suggest he was an elite coach that would make IU a top 5 (top 10?) program? Even coach Knight’s comment left a lot of room for interpretation. Saying someone is a good coach means very little. It’s all relative.
One final thought. Hopefully we find ourselves making another hire here soon. And, I see mention here of candidates that have resumes similar to Miller. How would they turn out?
One thing to consider is that with NIL and the portal a mid major up and comer will be leaving a program that has a tiny NIL compared to IU. They will be leaving a program that is likely having their players poached, where IU is a program that can steal players away from almost anyone they want with money.
But, a coach needs to manage that. In other words having the ability to poach players and have a top 5 payroll can be a coach killer if he cannot manage the boosters and all of those other forces. And, how all of that is handled will go a long way in helping define the programs culture. The coach CAN change a programs culture, and CAN define and instill that culture into a program. But, it’s also possible that an existing culture does not get broken by the coach.
Cig had success with this. The chicago Bears have hired umpteen coaches without changing the organization’s broken culture.
Cig didn't seem to have a problem with it. It all comes down to the coach and what he teaches and emphasizes. Kelsey and Pope have done it. I'm not a fan of wholesale roster replacement but I think the goal should be 2-3 HS players that you really want and then portal guys to address unexpected roster needs and plug immediate holes.
Cig braught culture and players with him. And I bet he’s not replacing 75% of his roster every year.
And Kaleb Banks is averaging 17.9ppg, 7.6 rpg at Tulane right now.
If IU had him coming in as a transfer, everyone would expect him to be a star.
Woodson needs NBA players to succeed because he doesn't know how to coach college ball players. Banks and Gunn would do just fine with most good programs. Geronimo was not as versatile- mostly just an athlete, like Hanner or Steve Hart.
Cig has a really really good read on people. He brought in good coaches, grabbed the players he knew were rock solid, told them to be ready to win, and now has everything going in the right direction. And quite honestly, Indiana is a great fit for him. He can make mistakes at IU and not lose the fans.
Basketball is different due to higher expectations, but no different in that it is getting the right people that makes a difference.
The players and coaches he brought in also are here because they buy in to what Cig wants to do. They are all here with the same mission. It’s a group, not a collection of individuals.
Miller’s hiring certainly has the feel of Plan D, the “D” for desperation.
IU fans may still be delusional in thinking just because “It’s Indiana!” any coach we hire is going to be the great coach we think we deserve. It may come from our state’s early attention to high school basketball, its recruiting base, Bob Knight’s success here, the perception (real or imagined) of advantageous NIL coffers…whatever. For various reasons it’s always been thought that once Knight left, it would be easy here as a basketball coach. The rest of college basketball fans just keep on laughing.
I wasn’t giddy about the Miller hire only because I basically knew nothing about smaller school Dayton. A lot of his promise stemmed from his genetics, although that was about the same time news came out about brother Sean’s illegal shenanigans at Arizona.
In hindsight yet seen, Dusty May may prove to be a foolish gold digger, too, with Michigan’s recent losses a preceding to darker days illuminated. I have zero confidence a new coach is going to be significantly better than the last five our administration has hired. Hope spawns the reality of shattered dreams we know, our piss holes in the snow.
