Most Layoffs Since 2009

[IUCrazy2]

That's a good summary.... the Republicans are their own worst enemy. I said as quick as they go elected that they'd screw it up because they "thought" they had a mandate to do as they damn well please. I agree with you that government has it's place for a successful society but it can be like a leech and become in every detail of our lives.

Agree.

I know that I am very cynical when it comes to the federal government. I honestly believe if you could magically double their revenue today and not hurt the economy that within a year or two because they could not resist spending any excess money and use it to pay down the debt. GWB mentioned putting part of the SS income in the market and you'd think he suggested doing away with it. I know it's not meant to be a savings program but if I, along with my employer, had invested my SS payments in the S&P 500 it I would have over 2 million dollars and even a 2% rate of return today it would be more than I get from SS.

Yeah, you definitely need guardrails and I think we did screw the pooch with Social Security for my entire adult life (2000 was the first presidential election I could participate in). We have just continued to kick the can down the road and the road is about to come to an end.

The USPS doesn't get tax money does it... it survives on it on revenue doesn't it. They could easily cut the delivery to every other day in my opinion. I don't care if I get my junk mail a day later. I could be gone for 2 weeks and have my mail on hold and when I get back I might have 1 piece of mail that i needed.

I think ideas like that are probably hlthe way to go.

 

[mattndallas]

Been interesting reading this thread. Shows the difference in mentality and perspective between government lifers and its perception and that of a young Kelley executive operating at a fortune 25 corporation and all that attends: production, competition, laser focused on the bottom line, cut throat path to the top

 

[mattndallas]

So no more 10 dudes in blue shirts taking breaks, using one open scanner, while 5 others go unused?

 

[snarlcakes]

So I will be honest. I do agree with some cuts, I don't know how on board I am with USPS because I buy some of @Marvin the Martian arguments about hard to reach places that are expensive to get to that private industry would likely make postal service pretty expensive to deal with. On the education side, I have a special needs child, I honestly don't know if I trust a guy like Mike Braun to make sure kids like my son aren't tossed in the trash given his stance on autism treatment. There is a NEED for some of this stuff, we just have to figure out what that need actually is and then make sure we are doing our best to make it as cost effective as possible.

I disagree on both. USPS is a great example of why I can't stand the federal government. It's obvious technology has greatly changed the need for it. At the very least it should be reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. If you're unable to receive mail, get an email address or drive to the nearest Fedex. I think the chances of special education disappearing are less than 1%. There might be some cuts, but overall people wouldn't notice a difference in 5 years.

I am a Republican. I am not a Libertarian. I think government is a necessity and not everything government does is going to be completely cost efficient, but it helps to provide for a successful society where people can flourish.

I'm ok with having a government. I just want a much smaller federal government.

I am unhappy with what I think is a completely unserious approach on the part of the party to our problems. That the unserious approach is being mixed with online asshole troll behavior makes it that much more distasteful. Maybe we are all in our own little information bubbles but I think the part is in for a rude awakening in 2026 if it continues down this path.

I disagree on a rude awakening (I heard similar claims with Roe vs Wade). Most of the things their doing have little impact on 95% of the population or it's a net benefit to them. It all comes down to the economy. If they're able to get the economy growing and wages up by 28, they''ll be fine.

And thing thing is, I feel that is a bad thing because we do have som serious issues that need addressed and the nature of the current response, IMO, will lead to our viewpoint not having a real seat at the table for quite some time. This is the inverse of the Progressives thinking they had a mandate.

Sorry, but this doesn't fly. If the GOP can't make small cuts, they were never going to be able to make cuts to the big 3. I give them credit for attempting to do the right thing for once. If they do end up getting voted out for doing it, so be it.

 

[IUCrazy2]

I disagree on both. USPS is a great example of why I can't stand the federal government. It's obvious technology has greatly changed the need for it. At the very least it should be reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. If you're unable to receive mail, get an email address or drive to the nearest Fedex. I think the chances of special education disappearing are less than 1%. There might be some cuts, but overall people wouldn't notice a difference in 5 years.

Cut down the postal service, thatt is different from making it go away altogether. You approach this from the standpoint of someone like you or I who has built in advantages that don't exist everywhere.

On special education, frankly my fellow "allies" lately don't give me the warm and fuzzies on doing anything that doesn't benefit them directly. Up to them to prove me wrong. So far they are failing. Like the vast majority who want a tax cut while celebrating people getting fired to "fix the budget" and then thinking a $5,000 check to pay them back for all the "waste" DOGE found as a good idea. It isn't about saving money, it is about punishing a perceived enemy.

I'm ok with having a government. I just want a much smaller federal government.

I shared the math. Which entitlements are you giving up. "Big Government" is Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, VA benefits, and Healthcare.

I disagree on a rude awakening (I heard similar claims with Roe vs Wade). Most of the things their doing have little impact on 95% of the population or it's a net benefit to them. It all comes down to the economy. If they're able to get the economy growing and wages up by 28, they''ll be fine.

2026 will be the first bell weather and Trump isn't running in 2028. I don't think JD Vance is going to get the same latitude. Trump gets to be a somewhat humorous ass hole. JD Vance says and does these things and he is just an ass hole. The problem the GOP has now is that they want to be the cut the governmwnt party while being the leading coalition of people who rely on the government (retirees and non-college educated blue collar workers). One or the other eventually has to give.

Sorry, but this doesn't fly. If the GOP can't make small cuts, they were never going to be able to make cuts to the big 3. I give them credit for attempting to do the right thing for once. If they do end up getting voted out for doing it, so be it.

The problem isn't necessarily the cuts per se. It is the method they are being done and the messaging around it. There will be a concerted and coordinated push back against this eventually and having a Bond villain run around as the face of this and the party is going to be really easy to message around.

 

[snarlcakes]

Cut down the postal service, thatt is different from making it go away altogether. You approach this from the standpoint of someone like you or I who has built in advantages that don't exist everywhere.

On special education, frankly my fellow "allies" lately don't give me the warm and fuzzies on doing anything that doesn't benefit them directly. Up to them to prove me wrong. So far they are failing. Like the vast majority who want a tax cut while celebrating people getting fired to "fix the budget" and then thinking a $5,000 check to pay them back for all the "waste" DOGE found as a good idea. It isn't about saving money, it is about punishing a perceived enemy.

I shared the math. Which entitlements are you giving up. "Big Government" is Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, VA benefits, and Healthcare.

2026 will be the first bell weather and Trump isn't running in 2028. I don't think JD Vance is going to get the same latitude. Trump gets to be a somewhat humorous ass hole. JD Vance says and does these things and he is just an ass hole. The problem the GOP has now is that they want to be the cut the governmwnt party while being the leading coalition of people who rely on the government (retirees and non-college educated blue collar workers). One or the other eventually has to give.

The problem isn't necessarily the cuts per se. It is the method they are being done and the messaging around it. There will be a concerted and coordinated push back against this eventually and having a Bond villain run around as the face of this and the party is going to be really easy to message around.

Thanks for the answer. We’re just not going to agree. The cuts would have never happened a different way. It’s easier for politicians to continue to bankrupt the nation, cause inflation, and blame it on something else. I’ll add, of the GOP does get crushed in 26 & 28, they should never say another word about cuts to spending and just continue to cut taxes.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Thanks for the answer. We’re just not going to agree. The cuts would have never happened a different way. It’s easier for politicians to continue to bankrupt the nation, cause inflation, and blame it on something else. If the GOP does get crushed in the polls, they should never say another word about cuts and just continue to cut taxes.

I guess the point I am making is that they are still bankrupting the nation and just being a dick to people to boot. You know who needs to hear the info I shared up above almost as much as anyone? Trump's current coalition. If they are serious about this he should go out there and say that part of what made America great was having a system set up to take care of people in their old age. Demographics have changed and we need to decide what that will look like. If we want this social safety net, all y'all are going to have to truly start paying what it costs for it. If you don't want to pay for it, some things have got to go.

You can't sell me on shrinking the government to decrease the deficit and total debt and then turn around and offer tax cuts that then push us back past all of the cuts.

We agree on the problem and we probably agree a bit on the main thrust of the solution. The problem is that from where I sit, what is being done and proposed adresses neither the problem nor the real solution. So instead it is just kind of picking an enemy and sticking it to them with no care whatsoever of their opinion. It is just being a dick to people we feel slighted by...whether we actually were or not. That is where we part ways.

 

[snarlcakes]

I guess the point I am making is that they are still bankrupting the nation and just being a dick to people to boot. You know who needs to hear the info I shared up above almost as much as anyone? Trump's current coalition. If they are serious about this he should go out there and say that part of what made America great was having a system set up to take care of people in their old age. Demographics have changed and we need to decide what that will look like. If we want this social safety net, all y'all are going to have to truly start paying what it costs for it. If you don't want to pay for it, some things have got to go.

You can't sell me on shrinking the government to decrease the deficit and total debt and then turn around and offer tax cuts that then push us back past all of the cuts.

We agree on the problem and we probably agree a bit on the main thrust of the solution. The problem is that from where I sit, what is being done and proposed adresses neither the problem nor the real solution. So instead it is just kind of picking an enemy and sticking it to them with no care whatsoever of their opinion. It is just being a dick to people we feel slighted by...whether we actually were or not. That is where we part ways.

The catch is they don’t have to pay for it. They have a printer and it’s what they’ll do in the future if they get hammered in 28. As, they should, because it’s what the voters want.

 

[IUCrazy2]

The catch is they don’t have to pay for it. They have a printer and it’s what they’ll do in the future if they get hammered in 28. As, they should, because it’s what the voters want.

That is what they are doing. That's my point. This isn't about saving money, it is for revenge against the chosen "enemy" who in many cases is your own relatives.

Thrust into unemployment, axed federal workers face relatives who celebrate their firing

Scrambling to replace their health insurance and to find new work, some laid-off federal workers are running into another unexpected unpleasantry: Relatives cheering their firing. The country’s bitterly tribal politics are spilling into text chains, social media posts and heated conversations...

currently.att.yahoo.com

So we are basically just doing this stuff for funsies. You can see why it is maybe hard to take the movement seriously then.

 

[DANC]

WTF? Why shouldn't we care about these people? They're good Americans that were doing their jobs the same as us.

Couldn't they just learn to code? Anyone who works in a mine can learn to code, for God's sake.

 

[snarlcakes]

That is what they are doing. That's my point. This isn't about saving money, it is for revenge against the chosen "enemy" who in many cases is your own relatives.

Thrust into unemployment, axed federal workers face relatives who celebrate their firing

Scrambling to replace their health insurance and to find new work, some laid-off federal workers are running into another unexpected unpleasantry: Relatives cheering their firing. The country’s bitterly tribal politics are spilling into text chains, social media posts and heated conversations...

currently.att.yahoo.com

So we are basically just doing this stuff for funsies. You can see why it is maybe hard to take the movement seriously then.

The numbers are bullshit and best guesses. The 4.5 trillion is calculating increasing taxes in it. Also, we have no idea how much they are going cut. If they get to 200 billion I’d wager it’s budget neutral. Also, the same people b#tching about not increasing taxes are complaining the most about tariffs, which is estimated to raise 100-150 billion in revenue.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Couldn't they just learn to code? Anyone who works in a mine can learn to code, for God's sake.

Ok, I don't truly believe this but by the same token, coding is a white collar sit at a desk job. Social Security is nearly 1/4 of the federal budget. Couldn't some of these 67, 68, 69, 70 year olds learn to code? They are the ones driving the deficit right now. "But, but I earned that money...." Yeah, the same way that those people earned their job. Supreme Court has already said you don't own your Social Security, it is just a tax. So get back to work Boomers who didn't save enough for retirement so they have to rely on young people to keep them alive.

I think that is a dickhead approach. Telling miners to learn to code was a dickhead approach. Why are we making the mistakes of our political opponents?

 

[IUCrazy2]

The numbers are bullshit and best guesses. The 4.5 trillion is calculating increasing taxes in it. Also, we have no idea how much they are going cut. If they get to 200 billion I’d wager it’s budget neutral. Also, the same people b#tching about not increasing taxes are complaining the most about tariffs, which is estimated to raise 100-150 billion.

Budget neutral tax cuts when you are trying to decrease a $2T deficit negate the whole point of cutting to begin with. It is your daughter coming to you with a $20,000 credit card debt that she adds to every month by living outside her means and telling you she can quit her second job that pays $200 a week because she is going to cut her weekly clothing budget by $200. Cool sweetheart, you still have a $20k credit card bill that you are continuing to add to every month. You would laugh her out of the house for her "fiscal responsibility".

We'll see what the tariffs do.

 

[snarlcakes]

Budget neutral tax cuts when you are trying to decrease a $2T deficit negate the whole point of cutting to begin with. It is your daughter coming to you with a $20,000 credit card debt that she adds to every month by living outside her means and telling you she can quit her second job that pays $200 a week because she is going to cut her weekly clothing budget by $200. Cool sweetheart, you still have a $20k credit card bill that you are continuing to add to every month. You would laugh her out of the house for her "fiscal responsibility".

We'll see what the tariffs do.

You’re assuming private sector and public sector are are equal. They’re not.

 

[IUCrazy2]

You’re assuming private sector and public sector are are equal. They’re not.

I'm not assuming anything but math. I don't even know what that statement has to do with what we are discussing.

 

[snarlcakes]

I'm not assuming anything but math. I don't even know what that statement has to do with what we are discussing.

If you cut 200 billion from the public sector and move it to the private sector (by cutting taxes) it’s going to lead to more growth. It’s why all the bullshit predictions about Trumps tax cuts were wrong. Revenues went up after them. Governments are drags on economies because they’re not as efficient. The economy will be much better off in 4 years if DOGE cuts 200 billion from the Federal government and cut taxes.

 

[IUCrazy2]

If you cut 200 billion from the public sector and move it to the private sector (by cutting taxes) it’s going to lead to more growth. It’s why all the bullshit predictions about Trumps tax cuts were wrong. Revenues went up after them. Governments are drags on economies because they’re not as efficient. The economy will be much better off in 4 years if DOGE cuts 200 billion from the Federal government and cut taxes.

Guess we'll find out. It never seems to work out that way though. (And by that I mean that all the debt has done is go up.)

 

[snarlcakes]

Guess we'll find out. It never seems to work out that way though. (And by that I mean that all the debt has done is go up.)

If it doesn’t work, they’ll probably get swept in 28.

 

[NPT]

You approach this from the standpoint of someone like you or I who has built in advantages that don't exist everywhere.

It's gotten so most places think everyone has a smart phone and knows how to use them. If you don't meet that criteria you're out of luck....kinda the same principal.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

It's gotten so most places think everyone has a smart phone and knows how to use them. If you don't meet that criteria you're out of luck....kinda the same principal.

I have a smart phone, but if our wifi goes out, we're screwed. Reception where I live is absolutely horrendous, so I have to be on wifi. I won't make a call until I'm at least a couple minutes from the house once I leave because it'll sound like every other word is censored.

Country people have it a little different then city in some instances, good and bad.

 

[DANC]

Ok, I don't truly believe this but by the same token, coding is a white collar sit at a desk job. Social Security is nearly 1/4 of the federal budget. Couldn't some of these 67, 68, 69, 70 year olds learn to code? They are the ones driving the deficit right now. "But, but I earned that money...." Yeah, the same way that those people earned their job. Supreme Court has already said you don't own your Social Security, it is just a tax. So get back to work Boomers who didn't save enough for retirement so they have to rely on young people to keep them alive.

I think that is a dickhead approach. Telling miners to learn to code was a dickhead approach. Why are we making the mistakes of our political opponents?

I agree. Leave those Boomers who didn't save enough by the side of the road. They're just wasting oxygen.

I guess I need to note when my posts are sarcastic.....

Aren't most of the jobs going away white collar sit at a desk job? 60 year olds with no hope to learn another skill aren't the ones being laid off.

 

[DANC]

Guess we'll find out. It never seems to work out that way though. (And by that I mean that all the debt has done is go up.)

Because spending has continued to go up. That's what DOGE is trying to change.

I don't understand your argument, I guess

 

[IUCrazy2]

I agree. Leave those Boomers who didn't save enough by the side of the road. They're just wasting oxygen.

I guess I need to note when my posts are sarcastic.....

Sometimes it is hard to tell around here....and I am slow. So you gotta point it out to me.

Aren't most of the jobs going away white collar sit at a desk job? 60 year olds with no hope to learn another skill aren't the ones being laid off.

You want to take me down the dark rabbit hole straight to tinfoil land? Lol...I will bite a little bit. Government jobs run the gamut of just about anything that gets done out in the private sector. Financial analyst to lawyer to accountant to data entry, etc. You got the world's richest man with his hand picked programmers hacked into the system and running it through AI. You also have all those people breaking down what they do every week and providing their management chain. I also have it on good authority that they are currently asking what jobs would be easiest to automate. When Elon is done with all this he is going to have quite a bit of AI data that would prove pretty useful out in the private sector too.

Why worry about some car stock when you are datamining for a tool that could be used to shrink the need for all of the different white collar jobs I listed above? Anybody thinking this guy just does stuff for altruistic reasons is nuts. You don't get as rich as he is without ****ing people over.

 

[IUCrazy2]

Because spending has continued to go up.

Not where they are cutting. All the growth is in entitlements as a measure of GDP.

That's what DOGE is trying to change.

This is where we part ways. Based on what DOGE has done and what the guy running DOGE has thrown out as an offer, DOGE is just cutting programs they don't like and firing government workers.

I don't understand your argument, I guess

My argument is that if this were a really serious attempt to get the deficit down we wouldn't be talking about tax cuts (that depending on who you believe might actually be tax increases for the middle class) and $5000 Elon Payments like we had during COVID. This is strictly revenge. I still don't buy that being "government neutral" on the tax cuts is going to lower the deficit. It has never happened in my lifetime.

The only time we have been balanced was done this way:

I Helped Balance the Federal Budget in the 1990s – Here’s Just How Hard It Will Be for the GOP to Achieve that Same Rare Feat

House Speaker McCarthy wants to put the US on a path to a balanced budget as debt ceiling negotiations begin with President Biden. Here’s why it won’t be easy to repeat what Bill Clinton accomplished.

www.govexec.com

And it involved raising taxes on Social Security, raising taxes with new brackets on higher earners, and increasing corporate taxes on top of the cuts in government spending. And oh yeah, when he was in office entitlement spending was less than half of the budget, now it is 2/3's.

So my point is the goofball who literally lives on Twitter trolling people and sharing some truly stupid ideas to a portion of our side that has completely lost their minds IMO is merely the face for how unserious this all is. It is a troll job aimed at the "bad people". Nothing more or less. (And that isn't to say that some of the stuff they have come across to cut is stuff I think should stay. I just don't find it to be the reason for what they are doing. It is revenge for Trump and a power play by Musk.)