Medicaid problems in Indiana

[Marvin the Martian]

First, the link below does accept that ACA can account for some of the Medicaid issues Indiana is facing. Simply put, too many people need Medicaid.

In 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was passed, Indiana spent 0.57% of our total state GDP on Medicaid, and 969,000 Hoosiers were enrolled. Last year, we spent 1.13% of our GDP on Medicaid and enrolled 1.96 million Hoosiers. For every one new job created in Indiana since 2010, we’ve had more than two new people enroll in Medicaid.​

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But there is another problem driving this, Hoosiers are falling behind the rest of the country in pay:

Hoosier workers are getting relatively poorer. In 2000, our factory workers earned the national average salary for their work. Overall, Hoosier workers earned about 93% of the national wage. The current Hoosier factory worker now makes about 89 cents for every dollar earned by factory workers nationwide and the average Hoosier worker earns less than 84 cents for every dollar earned nationwide.​

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So why are we falling behind? Why did factory workers in Indiana go from 93% of national average to 89%? Why do average Hoosiers make 89% of the national average?

Looking at other sources, this has Indiana salaries behind Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio and tied with Kentucky.

The link on Medicaid in Indiana:

Indiana's startling Medicaid math forces unpleasant choices | Opinion

For every new job created in Indiana since 2010, we’ve had more than two new people enroll in Medicaid.

www.indystar.com

 

[snarlcakes]

First, the link below does accept that ACA can account for some of the Medicaid issues Indiana is facing. Simply put, too many people need Medicaid.

In 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was passed, Indiana spent 0.57% of our total state GDP on Medicaid, and 969,000 Hoosiers were enrolled. Last year, we spent 1.13% of our GDP on Medicaid and enrolled 1.96 million Hoosiers. For every one new job created in Indiana since 2010, we’ve had more than two new people enroll in Medicaid.​

​

But there is another problem driving this, Hoosiers are falling behind the rest of the country in pay:

Hoosier workers are getting relatively poorer. In 2000, our factory workers earned the national average salary for their work. Overall, Hoosier workers earned about 93% of the national wage. The current Hoosier factory worker now makes about 89 cents for every dollar earned by factory workers nationwide and the average Hoosier worker earns less than 84 cents for every dollar earned nationwide.​

​

So why are we falling behind? Why did factory workers in Indiana go from 93% of national average to 89%? Why do average Hoosiers make 89% of the national average?

Looking at other sources, this has Indiana salaries behind Illinois, Michigan, and Ohio and tied with Kentucky.

The link on Medicaid in Indiana:

Indiana's startling Medicaid math forces unpleasant choices | Opinion

For every new job created in Indiana since 2010, we’ve had more than two new people enroll in Medicaid.

www.indystar.com

The majority of increases are from Obamacare (600,000). Thanks Obama. Also, since 2010, the Hispanic population has increased 200k. They rely on Medicaid at a higher percentage, which makes sense, since a large portion of them are immigrants. Importing unskilled workers have negative consequences when you have large safety nets. Of course the article doesn’t point this out, because it’s not the correct narrative, but @twenty02 gets his cheap Columbian nanny, with big beautiful…………. She’s so hot. For the record, I choose bankrupting the state it they all look like her.

Braun's new Medicaid rule impacts Black, Hispanic communities

Gov. Mike Braun's administration has made it an immediate goal to get people off Medicaid, a publicly funded health insurance program.

www.wishtv.com

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The majority of increases are from Obamacare (600,000). Thanks Obama. Also, since 2010, the Hispanic population has increased 400-500k. They rely on Medicaid at a higher percentage, which makes sense, since a large portion of them are immigrants. Importing unskilled workers have negative consequences when you have large safety nets. Of course the article doesn’t point this out, because it’s not the correct narrative, but @twenty02 gets his cheap Columbian nanny, with big beautiful…………. She’s so hot. For the record, I choose bankrupting the state it they all look like her.

Braun's new Medicaid rule impacts Black, Hispanic communities

Gov. Mike Braun's administration has made it an immediate goal to get people off Medicaid, a publicly funded health insurance program.

www.wishtv.com

Don't most immigrants, those without refugee status, have to wait 5 years to get on Medicaid?

It seems that Hoosier wages being in a race to the bottom is likely to contribute as much to the problem.

To get Medicaid and CHIP coverage, many qualified non-citizens (such as many Lawful Permanent Residents, also known as LPRs or green card holders) have a 5-year waiting period. This means they must wait 5 years after getting "qualified" immigration status before they can get Medicaid and CHIP coverage.​

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Health coverage for lawfully present immigrants

Lawfully present immigrants can get Marketplace coverage and may qualify for premium tax credits and other savings on Marketplace plans.

www.healthcare.gov

 

[snarlcakes]

Don't most immigrants, those without refugee status, have to wait 5 years to get on Medicaid?

It seems that Hoosier wages being in a race to the bottom is likely to contribute as much to the problem.

To get Medicaid and CHIP coverage, many qualified non-citizens (such as many Lawful Permanent Residents, also known as LPRs or green card holders) have a 5-year waiting period. This means they must wait 5 years after getting "qualified" immigration status before they can get Medicaid and CHIP coverage.​

​

Health coverage for lawfully present immigrants

Lawfully present immigrants can get Marketplace coverage and may qualify for premium tax credits and other savings on Marketplace plans.

www.healthcare.gov

From 2010 to 2024 the Hispanic population increased around 200k, which accounts for about half of Indiana's population growth during the time period. My best guess is that accounts for a majority of the wage decreases. I'll also add Marv there are other factors, but the majority of the increases are Obamacare and immigration.

Edit: My numbers were off in the 1st post. It's 200k (one said 400k but I think it's from 2000).

 

[mcmurtry66]

From 2010 to 2024 the Hispanic population increased around 200k, which accounts for about half of Indiana's population growth during the time period. My best guess is that accounts for a majority of the wage decreases.

Edit: My numbers were off in the 1st post. It's 200k (one said 400k but I think it's from 2000).

And iu soccer recruits white Stl kids who play kickball. Weird

 

[Baller23Boogie]

And iu soccer recruits white Stl kids who play kickball. Weird

I'm not for banning people, but you need to be stopped.

@UncleMark put a stop to this.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

From 2010 to 2024 the Hispanic population increased around 200k, which accounts for about half of Indiana's population growth during the time period. My best guess is that accounts for a majority of the wage decreases. I'll also add Marv there are other factors, but the majority of the increases are Obamacare and immigration.

Edit: My numbers were off in the 1st post. It's 200k (one said 400k but I think it's from 2000).

And that may be, but does that explain Indiana's wage decline which also makes a difference. More people making less money makes more people eligible. Other states have immigrants.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Hicks has a fetish about college degrees -- as if the student debt crisis doesn't exist or has some kind of alternative explanation.

College has never been the right choice for everybody. And that's never been truer than it is today -- as the cost to obtain a degree has diverged from the monetary value of possessing one. If college was truly worth what it costs for anybody and everybody, we wouldn't have a student debt crisis -- because the acquired education would have resulted in enough income for borrowers to afford their payments.

College is a great investment for people who are getting worthwhile degrees that actually do open the doors to enough income to justify the cost. But it's a terrible burden for most of those who get the other kind.

So colleges and universities need to rethink their business models. They should start by doing honest estimates of the NPV of each degree they offer. And the tuitions for these programs should reflect that number. All degrees are not worth the same amount of money to possess. So why do they all cost the same amount of money to obtain?

This would mean that universities would be losing money on low-value degree programs. And they'd face the choice to subsidize them or cut them loose. Rightsizing is often unpleasant, but it's extremely healthy. But it's important to realize that these losses already exist. They just show up in the form of distressed student debt.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Hicks has a fetish about college degrees -- as if the student debt crisis doesn't exist or has some kind of alternative explanation.

College has never been the right choice for everybody. And that's never been truer than it is today -- as the cost to obtain a degree has diverged from the monetary value of possessing one. If college was truly worth what it costs for anybody and everybody, we wouldn't have a student debt crisis -- because the acquired education would have resulted in enough income for borrowers to afford their payments.

College is a great investment for people who are getting worthwhile degrees that actually do open the doors to enough income to justify the cost. But it's a terrible burden for most of those who get the other kind.

So colleges and universities need to rethink their business models. They should start by doing honest estimates of the NPV of each degree they offer. And the tuitions for these programs should reflect that number. All degrees are not worth the same amount of money to possess. So why do they all cost the same amount of money to obtain?

This would mean that universities would be losing money on low-value degree programs. And they'd face the choice to subsidize them or cut them loose. Rightsizing is often unpleasant, but it's extremely healthy. But it's important to realize that these losses already exist. They just show up in the form of distressed student debt.

I do agree that there is an issue with overvaluing degrees. But at the same point, if we measure income from degree earners and non-degree earners, I suspect non-degree is losing ground.

One issue is that so much of factory work is automated that many jobs don't pay what they once did. Sure, a Cummins does well. But a lot of other factory jobs are no longer solid middle class.

 

[snarlcakes]

And that may be, but does that explain Indiana's wage decline which also makes a difference. More people making less money makes more people eligible. Other states have immigrants.

I agree other states have immigrants, but who is migrating matters. If it's a majority of low skilled/low wage workers, it's going to put downward pressure on wages and increase the amount of people eligible over time. I don't think it accounts for all the decline (in wages), but I would bet it's the largest percentage of the decline.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

I agree other states have immigrants, but who is migrating matters. If it's a majority of low skilled/low wage workers, it's going to put downward pressure on wages and increase the amount of people eligible over time. I don't think it accounts for all the decline (in wages), but I would bet it's the largest percentage of the decline.

So we have more low skilled immigrants coming to Indiana than does, say, Kentucky. According to that USA today article their average salary is about the same. That wasn't true years ago.

Indiana isn't successfully bringing in better jobs. I do not know why, but it would be good to figure it out.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

But at the same point, if we measure income from degree earners and non-degree earners, I suspect non-degree is losing ground.

Probably. But does it make sense to look at "degree" as a monolith? And shouldn't all of this take into account the net value -- meaning that costs of college (whether financed by loans or otherwise) are deducted?

In other words, a Bachelors in Engineering from Purdue is virtually always going to be worth what it costs to obtain. A degree in Classical Civilizations from IUB, probably not.

What grinds my gears (h/t Peter Griffin) is that Hicks couches all this in a premise that we should be spending more on education. I'm fine with that, to the extent that the investment actually makes sense.

But everybody's going to have to realize that many "education" investments do not make financial sense. And we need to adjust how we approach these things to correct for that. If a degree isn't a good investment for an individual, why would it become a good investment if it's being paid for by taxpayers?

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Probably. But does it make sense to look at "degree" as a monolith? And shouldn't all of this take into account the net value -- meaning that costs of college (whether financed by loans or otherwise) are deducted?

In other words, a Bachelors in Engineering from Purdue is virtually always going to be worth what it costs to obtain. A degree in Classical Civilizations from IUB, probably not.

What grinds my gears (h/t Peter Griffin) is that Hicks couches all this in a premise that we should be spending more on education. I'm fine with that, to the extent that the investment actually makes sense.

But everybody's going to have to realize that many "education" investments do not make financial sense. And we need to adjust how we approach these things to correct for that. If a degree isn't a good investment for an individual, why would it become a good investment if it's being paid for by taxpayers?

He does not that K-12 spending is also down, as a percentage.

We could up funding for STEM as the Lilly CEO wants

Eli Lilly CEO: Indiana needs to do more to address health, education of Hoosiers - 95.3 MNC

The CEO of Eli Lilly and Co., one of Indiana’s largest employers, said that the state needs to do more to address the health and education level of Hoosiers. “Our education attainment in the state is not good. The ability to reskill the workforce, I think, could improve. Health, life...

www.953mnc.com

It will be tough to get as many line workers as we used to have and overall paid what Ford and GM pay. While they pay a lot, go to YouTube and watch videos of car assembly. There aren't many humans involved.

I don't know how Indiana does better at getting higher paying jobs. But we need to.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

He does not that K-12 spending is also down, as a percentage.

He does. And I'm good with that -- so long as we're certain that additional funding is what's necessary to improve outcomes. I'm skeptical about that as a universal thing. But it certainly can be the case.

We could up funding for STEM as the Lilly CEO wants

I'm 100% behind this -- because I suspect that STEM will virtually always have a very high batting average of paying off...for the student, for their future employers, for the state, etc.

It will be tough to get as many line workers as we used to have and overall paid what Ford and GM pay. While they pay a lot, go to YouTube and watch videos of car assembly. There aren't many humans involved.

Couldn't agree more. FWIW, I agree with a lot of what Hicks wrote. I just don't think that "college degree" is the answer. Because, again, if it was, we wouldn't have the student debt crisis we have. But we do have it.

I don't know how Indiana does better at getting higher paying jobs. But we need to.

Yes, we do. But putting good money after bad would actually set us farther away from that goal.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

He does. And I'm good with that -- so long as we're certain that additional funding is what's necessary to improve outcomes. I'm skeptical about that as a universal thing. But it certainly can be the case.



I'm 100% behind this -- because I suspect that STEM will virtually always have a very high batting average of paying off...for the student, for their future employers, for the state, etc.



Couldn't agree more. FWIW, I agree with a lot of what Hicks wrote. I just don't think that "college degree" is the answer. Because, again, if it was, we wouldn't have the student debt crisis we have. But we do have it.



Yes, we do. But putting good money after bad would actually set us farther away from that goal.

Nice conversation Crazed. I don't want to tout the education part because I don't know how much it is the problem. I just see it as a problem. It seems to me Indiana has a mindset of "move to Indiana, we have low wages" and that doesn't exactly attract better jobs. Yes, a WalMart greeter job is better than no job, but there is nothing wrong with the state trying to do better than that.