Looks like the Supreme Court has another case headed their way...

[76-1]

Trump says Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void, vacant and of no further force or effect,’ vows probe of Jan. 6 House select committee

President Trump claims pardons made by Biden in the last minutes of his presidency have been “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT” since the former commander-in-chief used “Autopen.”…

nypost.com

The Biden extended family (along with several other folks) might be moving to Ecuador soon (no ext. treaty)... 😉😎
🙈🙉🙊

🍺🇺🇸🍺

 

[Ohio Guy]

Trump says Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void, vacant and of no further force or effect,’ vows probe of Jan. 6 House select committee

President Trump claims pardons made by Biden in the last minutes of his presidency have been “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT” since the former commander-in-chief used “Autopen.”…

nypost.com

The Biden extended family (along with several other folks) might be moving to Ecuador soon (no ext. treaty)... 😉😎
🙈🙉🙊

🍺🇺🇸🍺

At the end of the day, I don't care what's decided here. At this point though, going after the January 6 committee and the Biden family is a huge waste of time, given the shit show he's currently presiding over.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

What is an autopen signature and why is Trump accusing Biden of using one?

President has attacked Biden’s alleged autopen use despite reports casting doubt over whether all of Trump’s signatures are handwritten

www.independent.co.uk

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

does that mean all of trump's pardons for his crime family are null and void as well?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Trump says Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void, vacant and of no further force or effect,’ vows probe of Jan. 6 House select committee

President Trump claims pardons made by Biden in the last minutes of his presidency have been “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT” since the former commander-in-chief used “Autopen.”…

nypost.com

The Biden extended family (along with several other folks) might be moving to Ecuador soon (no ext. treaty)... 😉😎
🙈🙉🙊

🍺🇺🇸🍺

I don’t think there was any need to pardon them and dislike the idea of preemptive pardons, but signing them by autopen is nothing. They’re legal if Biden authorized that. President Trump made up the part about President Biden not knowing about the pardons. There’s no evidence of that and Biden talked about the possibility of those pardons two weeks before he did it. This is another nutty distraction.

Trump Lays Groundwork for Investigating People Pardoned by Biden — The Wall Street Journal

President asserts in social-media post that Biden’s pardons were ‘void, vacant, and of no further force of effect’

apple.news

 

[Bowlmania]

Trump says Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void, vacant and of no further force or effect,’ vows probe of Jan. 6 House select committee

President Trump claims pardons made by Biden in the last minutes of his presidency have been “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT” since the former commander-in-chief used “Autopen.”…

nypost.com

The Biden extended family (along with several other folks) might be moving to Ecuador soon (no ext. treaty)... 😉😎
🙈🙉🙊

🍺🇺🇸🍺

Clown Show post from the Clown Show president.

 

[76-1]

I don’t think there was any need to pardon them and dislike the idea of preemptive pardons, but signing them by autopen is nothing. They’re legal if Biden authorized that. President Trump made up the part about President Biden not knowing about the pardons. There’s no evidence of that and Biden talked about the possibility of those pardons two weeks before he did it. This is another nutty distraction.

I'm of the "Opinion" that Biden thought he was still a Senator throughout most of the last two and a half years of his Presidency... Every important decision, aside from what flavor ice cream Joe was allowed, appeared to have been made by someone else... Someday I hope we all get to learn who, or how many who's, were actually making those decisions...

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

I'm of the "Opinion" that Biden thought he was still a Senator throughout most of the last two and a half years of his Presidency... Every important decision, aside from what flavor ice cream Joe was allowed, appeared to have been made by someone else... Someday I hope we all get to learn who, or how many who's, were actually making those decisions...

Mike Johnson has made clear that there were at least some things Biden had no recollection or knowledge of signing.

 

[Univee2]

I'm of the "Opinion" that Biden thought he was still a Senator throughout most of the last two and a half years of his Presidency... Every important decision, aside from what flavor ice cream Joe was allowed, appeared to have been made by someone else... Someday I hope we all get to learn who, or how many who's, were actually making those decisions...

There could be some interesting books that come out in the next several years. Money will always rule over loyalty.

 

[mcmurtry66]

There could be some interesting books that come out in the next several years. Money will always rule over loyalty.

New book on Biden by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson reports a ‘cover up’ about his decline | CNN Business

The day after Donald Trump won the 2024 election, CNN anchor Jake Tapper and Axios correspondent Alex Thompson decided to co-author a book about what had led the Democratic party to defeat, with a focus on former President Joe Biden.

amp.cnn.com

Serious mental decline coverup

 

[Univee2]

New book on Biden by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson reports a ‘cover up’ about his decline | CNN Business

The day after Donald Trump won the 2024 election, CNN anchor Jake Tapper and Axios correspondent Alex Thompson decided to co-author a book about what had led the Democratic party to defeat, with a focus on former President Joe Biden.

amp.cnn.com

Serious mental decline coverup

Tapper’s book shouldn’t be entitled Original Sin; It should be How Ironical is it That I Wrote this Book?.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Tapper’s book shouldn’t be entitled Original Sin; It should be How Ironical is it That I Wrote this Book?.

If I did it: Confessions of the Anchor

 

[TyWebbIU]

does that mean all of trump's pardons for his crime family are null and void as well?

No autopen, so no.

 

[TyWebbIU]

I don’t think there was any need to pardon them and dislike the idea of preemptive pardons, but signing them by autopen is nothing. They’re legal if Biden authorized that. President Trump made up the part about President Biden not knowing about the pardons. There’s no evidence of that and Biden talked about the possibility of those pardons two weeks before he did it. This is another nutty distraction.

Trump Lays Groundwork for Investigating People Pardoned by Biden — The Wall Street Journal

President asserts in social-media post that Biden’s pardons were ‘void, vacant, and of no further force of effect’

apple.news

Biden wasn’t competent at that point, hence autopen. It’s not hard to comprehend.

 

[TyWebbIU]

Clown Show post from the Clown Show president.

F@ck off

 

[TyWebbIU]

New book on Biden by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson reports a ‘cover up’ about his decline | CNN Business

The day after Donald Trump won the 2024 election, CNN anchor Jake Tapper and Axios correspondent Alex Thompson decided to co-author a book about what had led the Democratic party to defeat, with a focus on former President Joe Biden.

amp.cnn.com

Serious mental decline coverup

Tapper was a part of the coverup.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Biden wasn’t competent at that point, hence autopen. It’s not hard to comprehend.

Are you really as dumb as you seem here? Did you miss the part that Presidents since Truman have used the autopen? That includes President Trump who used it to sign 30 or so of his Executive Orders. Try to focus really hard. Autopen isn’t an issue. If Biden authorized it for a bill, Executive Order, or pardons, they’re all good to go.

I told you I want no association with you. Don’t respond.

 

[outside shooter]

Are you really as dumb as you seem here?

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

No autopen, so no.

Autopen isn't disqualifying.

That is like claiming Trump used orange ink on his pardons so they don't count. Same level of stupidity

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Are you really as dumb as you seem here? Did you miss the part that Presidents since Truman have used the autopen? That includes President Trump who used it to sign 30 or so of his Executive Orders. Try to focus really hard. Autopen isn’t an issue. If Biden authorized it for a bill, Executive Order, or pardons, they’re all good to go.

I told you I want no association with you. Don’t respond.

I don’t think a facsimile signature is valid absent a clear extrinsic evidence that the official authorized the facsimile.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Trump says Biden’s autopen pardons are ‘void, vacant and of no further force or effect,’ vows probe of Jan. 6 House select committee

President Trump claims pardons made by Biden in the last minutes of his presidency have been “VOID, VACANT, AND OF NO FURTHER FORCE OR EFFECT” since the former commander-in-chief used “Autopen.”…

nypost.com

The Biden extended family (along with several other folks) might be moving to Ecuador soon (no ext. treaty)... 😉😎
🙈🙉🙊

🍺🇺🇸🍺

Documents signed digitally are just as legally binding as documents signed by pen. 95% of the contracts I sign these days are done via DocuSign or something similar. So are my tax forms and such.

And there isn’t any evidence that Biden didn’t authorize the use of an auto-pen to sign these pardons. I’d be shocked to learn that these were executed without his knowledge and consent.

Another fake “scandal” from Trumpworld.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

I don’t think a facsimile signature is valid absent a clear extrinsic evidence that the official authorized the facsimile.

If a President has authorized the use of an autopen, then the mere presence of an autopen signature on a document should constitute prima facie evidence that the signature was authorized, and the burden should be on those attacking the document to demonstrate otherwise.

To demand the opposite would be to reverse not only decades of common practice regarding the autopen itself, but also centuries of precedent regarding the administration of government in the English world, which since at least the time of British colonization, and more likely dating back even to the Normans, required multiple individuals to affix the approval of the monarch to various documents without the monarch actually signing them.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Documents signed digitally are just as legally binding as documents signed by pen. 95% of the contracts I sign these days are done via DocuSign or something similar. So are my tax forms and such.

And there isn’t any evidence that Biden didn’t authorize the use of an auto-pen to sign these pardons. I’d be shocked to learn that these were executed without his knowledge and consent.

Another fake “scandal” from Trumpworld.

Yup. If someone throws a fit it’s you just produce the original document

 

[CO. Hoosier]

If a President has authorized the use of an autopen, then the mere presence of an autopen signature on a document should constitute prima facie evidence that the signature was authorized, and the burden should be on those attacking the document to demonstrate otherwise.

To demand the opposite would be to reverse not only decades of common practice regarding the autopen itself, but also centuries of precedent regarding the administration of government in the English world, which since at least the time of British colonization, and more likely dating back even to the Normans, required multiple individuals to affix the approval of the monarch to various documents without the monarch actually signing them.

Auto pen schmauto pen. An auto pen signature is not any different than my paralegal signing my name. The are specific rules about using facsimiles and copies in lieu of original material.

 

[twenty02]

Documents signed digitally are just as legally binding as documents signed by pen. 95% of the contracts I sign these days are done via DocuSign or something similar. So are my tax forms and such.

And there isn’t any evidence that Biden didn’t authorize the use of an auto-pen to sign these pardons. I’d be shocked to learn that these were executed without his knowledge and consent.

Another fake “scandal” from Trumpworld.

Don't mind that .. There isn't even a constitutional requirement that a presidential pardon be in written form.

Clown show continues.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

Don't mind that .. There isn't even a constitutional requirement that a presidential pardon be in written form.

Clown show continues.

I mentioned that in the other thread. However, the pardons could in theory be assailed if there were some evidence that he didn't authorize them, since on that issue, the presence of a signature would be irrelevant with regards to validity, and only bear on the possibility of fraud.

But, like I said to CO.H, I think some thousand years of precedent demands that the presumption of the law is that the pardons were authorized by him. Since the pardons were issued along with a memo and even, IIRC, a social media post, I suggest it is extremely unlikely the Trump partisans will be able to produce any sort of case that they weren't.

This entire exercise exists for the sole purpose of giving the Trumpers a boner.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I mentioned that in the other thread. However, the pardons could in theory be assailed if there were some evidence that he didn't authorize them, since on that issue, the presence of a signature would be irrelevant with regards to validity, and only bear on the possibility of fraud.

But, like I said to CO.H, I think some thousand years of precedent demands that the presumption of the law is that the pardons were authorized by him. Since the pardons were issued along with a memo and even, IIRC, a social media post, I suggest it is extremely unlikely the Trump partisans will be able to produce any sort of case that they weren't.

This entire exercise exists for the sole purpose of giving the Trumpers a boner.

There indeed might be proof that the autopenned pardons are valid.. But that proof will need to be a clear contemporaneous statement from Biden authorizing the facsimile signature.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

There indeed might be proof that the autopenned pardons are valid.. But that proof will need to be a clear contemporaneous statement from Biden authorizing the facsimile signature.

Again, no. I believe they must be accepted with a presumption of validity, and the burden will be on the prosecution to present evidence that they are not.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Don't mind that .. There isn't even a constitutional requirement that a presidential pardon be in written form.

Clown show continues.

Clown show?

Hunter: But judge, I have a pardon for these crimes.

Judge: show me.

Hunter: . . . . . . . . . . . .uh. . . . . .. . .

Judge: Mr prosecutor, proceed with the arraignment.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Again, no. I believe they must be accepted with a presumption of validity, and the burden will be on the prosecution to present evidence that they are not.

The prosecution must prove absence of a pardon? I think a pardon is a matter of immunity which defendant must prove if the prosecution doesn’t stipulate.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

The prosecution must prove absence of a pardon? I think a pardon is a matter of immunity which defendant must prove if the prosecution doesn’t stipulate.

They have a written pardon. Yes the burden is on the prosecution to prove it is fake

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

The prosecution must prove absence of a pardon? I think a pardon is a matter of immunity which defendant must prove if the prosecution doesn’t stipulate.

The defendant can't simply say, "I have a pardon." But they can produce one, and then I think it is upon the prosecution to attack it as invalid.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

The defendant can't simply say, "I have a pardon." But they can produce one, and then I think it is upon the prosecution to attack it as invalid.

It’s a given that the signature is a facsimile.

 

[The Original Happy Goat]

It’s a given that the signature is a facsimile.

Which doesn't matter for the reasons I already laid out in both threads.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Clown show?

Hunter: But judge, I have a pardon for these crimes.

Judge: show me.

Hunter: . . . . . . . . . . . .uh. . . . . .. . .

Judge: Mr prosecutor, proceed with the arraignment.

Hmm, where were you in the classified documents debate when I said an ex-president who basically says, "if I have a document it was declassified even if no one knew it" couldn't work?