Looking Forward to a New, Modern Offense...

[Pryght]

Woody has said that he has never used our post-driven offense throughout his coaching career, and only did so because of our personnel, so it will be interesting to see next year's playbook. I'm thankful for everything that the seniors brought, but am also ready and excited to turn the page.

 

[Hatchets7times]

Woody has said that he has never used our post-driven offense throughout his coaching career, and only did so because of our personnel, so it will be interesting to see next year's playbook. I'm thankful for everything that the seniors brought, but am also ready and excited to turn the page.

Gonna need players to implement it.imo
We got two coming back that can really play..
And both of those guys are plug the hole guys
We practically need a new roster yo play quick spread the floor game.
Then you still need two athletes in the paint ..Like 6'10 's..
We need a bunch ..
Right now we don't make the tournament next yr..imo

 

[bailey777]

Gonna need players to implement it.imo
We got two coming back that can really play..
And both of those guys are plug the hole guys
We practically need a new roster yo play quick spread the floor game.
Then you still need two athletes in the paint ..Like 6'10 's..
We need a bunch ..
Right now we don't make the tournament next yr..imo

We wil not make the tourny next year unless we have a portal miracle. The expectations will likely be pretty low.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Purdue and IU proved one thing (again) this weekend....the old post-entry offense works well in the winter wrestling clinic known as the B1G conference, but leads to disaster come mid March. Adapt or die. It's basic Darwinism.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Modern offense...remember when IU would do off ball screens and regularly lead the Big Ten in scoring?

If anything they didn't use the post enough yesterday. TJD's 10 shots compared to the 30 JHS and Bates put up.

 

[bailey777]

Purdue and IU proved one thing (again) this weekend....the old post-entry offense works well in the winter wrestling clinic known as the B1G conference, but leads to disaster come mid March. Adapt or die. It's basic Darwinism.

The big ten as a whole is flat out awful in the tourney. Michigan State will likely lose in the next game and the big ten will be done. The big ten has won one title since 1989 and none in 22 years. Pathetic.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Purdue and IU proved one thing (again) this weekend....the old post-entry offense works well in the winter wrestling clinic known as the B1G conference, but leads to disaster come mid March. Adapt or die. It's basic Darwinism.

Main issue was rebounding, boxing out and shot selection. Yes we couldn't guard their guards but TJD wasn't the issue there. I don't think they'd win if we controlled the glass or didn't give up 20 offensive boards.

 

[bailey777]

Main issue was rebounding, boxing out and shot selection. Yes we couldn't guard their guards but TJD wasn't the issue there. I don't think they'd win if we controlled the glass or didn't give up 20 offensive boards.

I dont think Miami had a guy over 6'7. But they just killed us on the glass they wanted it far more. No different than Purude losing against team who averaged 6'3. Edey was over a foot taller than those guys.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Main issue was rebounding, boxing out and shot selection. Yes we couldn't guard their guards but TJD wasn't the issue there. I don't think they'd win if we controlled the glass or didn't give up 20 offensive boards.

agreed rebounding killed us last night. No effort to box out. I'm talking the bigger picture and why the post-entry/B1G style has not worked in the tourney for 20+ yrs. Not just IU but the B1G style in general.

 

[bailey777]

agreed rebounding killed us last night. No effort to box out. I'm talking the bigger picture and why the post-entry/B1G style has not worked in the tourney for 20+ yrs. Not just IU but the B1G style in general.

It is clear the big ten style does not work in the tourney. One title in the last 33 years for the conference. Soon to be 34 years.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

Modern offense...remember when IU would do off ball screens and regularly lead the Big Ten in scoring?

If anything they didn't use the post enough yesterday. TJD's 10 shots compared to the 30 JHS and Bates put up.

hard to be effective running post entry when your opponent throws a sagging zone at your big guy, yet for some reason we can't get shooters open for good looks from outside. U was nailing wide open 3s in the second half, yet our guards always seemed to have a hand in their face, yet TJD was getting doubled down low. I don't think we moved the ball quick enough against zone. It's been a problem for a long time. JHS TG and TB had bad games and that's basically our backcourt. Kopp is very one-dimensional on offense, cannot effectively put the ball on the ground and drive.
Tourney has always been about matchups and U was a bad one for us. I think we beat Drake by 10 if they had held on to that first game.

 

[IUNorth]

There might be something there with regards to the offense. Everything a basketball team does, has an effect on the overall performance.

I don't think our main problem was our offense though. While I definitely don't like the post entry, space and watch the bigs work, style that he implemented a lot of the time (openly disliked it). I think our inconsistent effort and focus is what limited us as a team, much more than the offense.

Having said that...there could be something there about the overall psychology on the rest of the team, when we just dump it down to TJD or Race most of the game. The lack of movement, the lack of focus on everyone contributing, could have dulled their intensity somehow. It could have infected other parts of our game. Maybe a more modern, spread out, all 5 guys handling and attacking on offense...will keep everyone more engaged, and they'll play harder and be more "in" the games mentally???!! Hope so. As that's an enormous concern for me right now with Woody's first two teams.

 

[bailey777]

hard to be effective running post entry when your opponent throws a sagging zone at your big guy, yet for some reason we can't get shooters open for good looks from outside. U was nailing wide open 3s in the second half, yet our guards always seemed to have a hand in their face, yet TJD was getting doubled down low. I don't think we moved the ball quick enough against zone. It's been a problem for a long time. JHS TG and TB had bad games and that's basically our backcourt. Kopp is very one-dimensional on offense, cannot effectively put the ball on the ground and drive.
Tourney has always been about matchups and U was a bad one for us. I think we beat Drake by 10 if they had held on to that first game.

I will still never understand how Miami was a 5 seed after winning the ACC and 27 games. That being said there guys were wide wide open when taking threes. Our defense was not good at all. Also Bates as usual just killed us with his missed shots at key times.

 

[bsmitty08]

Woody has said that he has never used our post-driven offense throughout his coaching career, and only did so because of our personnel, so it will be interesting to see next year's playbook. I'm thankful for everything that the seniors brought, but am also ready and excited to turn the page.

Solid group that never won anything

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I will still never understand how Miami was a 5 seed after winning the ACC and 27 games. That being said there guys were wide wide open when taking threes. Our defense was not good at all. Also Bates as usual just killed us with his missed shots at key times.

I've been pulling for Tamar all season, but there are times where he seems to be in the mindset "if I get the ball in my hands on this possession, I'm shooting, even if I have to force it" , and it always seems to be at a bad time and leads to bad results on the other end as well. Since that home MSU game 2 months ago he's put up some of the most horrid shooting results of any IU guard I can remember.

I'm assuming JHS is gone; that's why kids go to MV and IMG, to get to the next level and paid asap. But in between some of the awesome games (Purdue) he had, he also had his fair share of very bad games. I honestly don't think he's ready; he played some terrible defense last night along with a crap night shooting. But...I suspect we've seen the last of him in Bloomington.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

There might be something there with regards to the offense. Everything a basketball team does, has an effect on the overall performance.

I don't think our main problem was our offense though. While I definitely don't like the post entry, space and watch the bigs work, style that he implemented a lot of the time (openly disliked it). I think our inconsistent effort and focus is what limited us as a team, much more than the offense.

Having said that...there could be something there about the overall psychology on the rest of the team, when we just dump it down to TJD or Race most of the game. The lack of movement, the lack of focus on everyone contributing, could have dulled their intensity somehow. It could have infected other parts of our game. Maybe a more modern, spread out, all 5 guys handling and attacking on offense...will keep everyone more engaged, and they'll play harder and be more "in" the games mentally???!! Hope so. As that's an enormous concern for me right now with Woody's first two teams.

I'll concede a point- yes the post-entry offense is yesteryear...but last night we got our asses kicked because we put forward a shit effort on defense and on the boards. That's what I find so frustrating....the loss comes down to points of emphasis that require grit and balls- defense and boards. Also their backcourt was a LOT quicker than ours. JHS and TG were getting schooled out front with their lack of lateral quickness, especially in the first 10 min of the game.

 

[bailey777]

I've been pulling for Tamar all season, but there are times where he seems to be in the mindset "if I get the ball in my hands on this possession, I'm shooting, even if I have to force it" , and it always seems to be at a bad time and leads to bad results on the other end as well. Since that home MSU game 2 months ago he's put up some of the most horrid shooting results of any IU guard I can remember.

I'm assuming JHS is gone; that's why kids go to MV and IMG, to get to the next level and paid asap. But in between some of the awesome games (Purdue) he had, he also had his fair share of very bad games. I honestly don't think he's ready; he played some terrible defense last night along with a crap night shooting. But...I suspect we've seen the last of him in Bloomington.

I would give JHS a 1% chance of coming back. Bates has probably shot about 15% in the last six weeks and many of those were layups or wide open shots. The guys simply is not a good shooter period and needs to leave. He clearly has the green light from Woodson which I do not get but I really do not want him back at all.

 

[IUNorth]

I've been pulling for Tamar all season, but there are times where he seems to be in the mindset "if I get the ball in my hands on this possession, I'm shooting, even if I have to force it" , and it always seems to be at a bad time and leads to bad results on the other end as well. Since that home MSU game 2 months ago he's put up some of the most horrid shooting results of any IU guard I can remember.

I'm assuming JHS is gone; that's why kids go to MV and IMG, to get to the next level and paid asap. But in between some of the awesome games (Purdue) he had, he also had his fair share of very bad games. I honestly don't think he's ready; he played some terrible defense last night along with a crap night shooting. But...I suspect we've seen the last of him in Bloomington.

It was frustrating at times, to be sure. But I don't mind the gunner mindset. MUCH more critical, to me, was his overall intensity level, and how he defended. That, like most of our players, was too up and down.

Whatever caused the late season shooting slump was unfortunate. But him taking shots didn't bother me a ton.

You can see the tools and ability. He just hasn't consistently produced thus far. I wouldn't be surprised to see him transfer at this point. I'm sure he's pretty low right now.

But if he does return...I have high hopes he can become a consistent defender and playmaker for us. And if that happens, our potential backcourt of X, Trey, and Tamar, could be pretty solid. But its all about consistent intensity and defense, if I'm Woody.

 

[edub72]

I think IU will be decent at guard play next year as long as X gets waiver. After that it’s a crap shoot. Need to add great shooter and 2 or 3 - 6’8 ish transfers to help Reneau. I just can’t see Geronimo or Bates helping much in the future. Hopefully Banks & Gunn take a big step

 

[IUNorth]

I'll concede a point- yes the post-entry offense is yesteryear...but last night we got our asses kicked because we put forward a shit effort on defense and on the boards. That's what I find so frustrating....the loss comes down to points of emphasis that require grit and balls- defense and boards. Also their backcourt was a LOT quicker than ours. JHS and TG were getting schooled out front with their lack of lateral quickness, especially in the first 10 min of the game.

100 percent agree. Just trying to find threads that are causing the uneven performances, and pull them.

Doesn't matter what us Monday Morning Coach/AD's think...I hope Woody will pull those threads and unravel everything here in the next few weeks. I can't fathom we'll have generational type talent like we had with TJD and JHS, next year, to carry us.

 

[TyWebbIU]

Woody has said that he has never used our post-driven offense throughout his coaching career, and only did so because of our personnel, so it will be interesting to see next year's playbook. I'm thankful for everything that the seniors brought, but am also ready and excited to turn the page.

Offense was NOT the problem with this team.

 

[RegionHoosiers]

Would have been fun to watch the pick and roll with X and TJD the back half of the season. They were doing well with that towards the end of last year. I think the offense would have looked a lot different with X running it.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

100 percent agree. Just trying to find threads that are causing the uneven performances, and pull them.

Doesn't matter what us Monday Morning Coach/AD's think...I hope Woody will pull those threads and unravel everything here in the next few weeks. I can't fathom we'll have generational type talent like we had with TJD and JHS, next year, to carry us.

damn I feel like a Purdue fan for what I'm about to say (and I'm an old RMK fan as well so this borders on blasphemy )....but would it hurt to throw an occasional zone D back at a team? Not to rely on it, but just to throw a new look at them every so often to take them out of their flow? Seems to work real damn good every time a team throws it at us. Just something to counterpunch a team when they are iso'ing our guards out front and taking them to the hole at will.

Figured if we need to shuffle the deck then why not shuffle all the cards.

Rip me if you want...I'm not a big zone D guy, but i also cringe and have Cuse 2013 flashbacks every time a team throws one at us.

 

[NWfor3]

If needed in a game, I always liked to throw a zone (1-3-1, 1-2-2...), maybe even trap out of it, against a team to break up their offensive flow. If it worked, keep using it, if not get out of it. Sometimes the opposing coach would call a TO to get his players focused on a particular zone, then I would switch back to man or a different zone. Doesn't hurt to try something different for a possession or two.

 

[ams66]

I've been pulling for Tamar all season, but there are times where he seems to be in the mindset "if I get the ball in my hands on this possession, I'm shooting, even if I have to force it" , and it always seems to be at a bad time and leads to bad results on the other end as well. Since that home MSU game 2 months ago he's put up some of the most horrid shooting results of any IU guard I can remember.

I'm assuming JHS is gone; that's why kids go to MV and IMG, to get to the next level and paid asap. But in between some of the awesome games (Purdue) he had, he also had his fair share of very bad games. I honestly don't think he's ready; he played some terrible defense last night along with a crap night shooting. But...I suspect we've seen the last of him in Bloomington.

The only way JHS comes back is if his draft stock plummets. He’s not coming back to work on his game if he stays in the first round.

 

[bailey777]

Would have been fun to watch the pick and roll with X and TJD the back half of the season. They were doing well with that towards the end of last year. I think the offense would have looked a lot different with X running it.

Might have won a few more games but it would not have changed last night. Last night was all due to effort and being lazy.

 

[IUNorth]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about what next year's team could look like. I know, right now, its likely we'll take a step back in terms of wins/losses, NCAA seeding, etc...

But I've been dying for a new style of play since half way through last season. Unless we end up getting someone, or a couple of players, similar to TJD and Race, in the portal...I can't imagine we won't look quite a lot different next year stylistically.

X and Trey will be mainstays in the backcourt. Malik will be the focal point at the 5.

Its the other two positions that should dramatically change what we look like, and how we play next year. I would be surprised if we don't get a starter level guy, maybe even two in the portal. So whoever that player, or players, end up being, will heavily influence all this.

But lets say Tamar and Kaleb take over the starting spots that Miller and Race left.

That team is A LOT quicker and more athletic than the one we started the 2nd half of the season.

X is a big part of that.

But replacing Miller and Race, both slower players laterally, and one of them just not being athletic in general...it should completely change how we look offensively and defensively.

I also have a feeling Jakai Newton is going to surprise some people, and be a main rotation guy for us next year. He's flying under the radar because of his injury this past year. But in the few games I watched of him, including the game that was on ESPN, he sure looked like a guy that has that "dog" mentality. He had the highlight block on the other teams stud. But beyond that, he was the only one that was able to stand that guy up defensively. And he did it multiple times. I've got a feeling he's gonna push for a starter level role.

 

[bawlmer]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about what next year's team could look like. I know, right now, its likely we'll take a step back in terms of wins/losses, NCAA seeding, etc...

But I've been dying for a new style of play since half way through last season. Unless we end up getting someone, or a couple of players, similar to TJD and Race, in the portal...I can't imagine we won't look quite a lot different next year stylistically.

X and Trey will be mainstays in the backcourt. Malik will be the focal point at the 5.

Its the other two positions that should dramatically change what we look like, and how we play next year. I would be surprised if we don't get a starter level guy, maybe even two in the portal. So whoever that player, or players, end up being, will heavily influence all this.

But lets say Tamar and Kaleb take over the starting spots that Miller and Race left.

That team is A LOT quicker and more athletic than the one we started the 2nd half of the season.

X is a big part of that.

But replacing Miller and Race, both slower players laterally, and one of them just not being athletic in general...it should completely change how we look offensively and defensively.

I also have a feeling Jakai Newton is going to surprise some people, and be a main rotation guy for us next year. He's flying under the radar because of his injury this past year. But in the few games I watched of him, including the game that was on ESPN, he sure looked like a guy that has that "dog" mentality. He had the highlight block on the other teams stud. But beyond that, he was the only one that was able to stand that guy up defensively. And he did it multiple times. I've got a feeling he's gonna push for a starter level role.

I agree with you. We've got talent waiting in the wings for it's chance. The few times we had the young guys on the court together the difference in energy was pretty clear. I wish Woodson had given them more court time, but it's their time now.

 

[Pryght]

Offense was NOT the problem with this team.

Offense was not the only problem, but yes, our antiquated and predictable style of play was most certainly a problem.

 

[bailey777]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about what next year's team could look like. I know, right now, its likely we'll take a step back in terms of wins/losses, NCAA seeding, etc...

But I've been dying for a new style of play since half way through last season. Unless we end up getting someone, or a couple of players, similar to TJD and Race, in the portal...I can't imagine we won't look quite a lot different next year stylistically.

X and Trey will be mainstays in the backcourt. Malik will be the focal point at the 5.

Its the other two positions that should dramatically change what we look like, and how we play next year. I would be surprised if we don't get a starter level guy, maybe even two in the portal. So whoever that player, or players, end up being, will heavily influence all this.

But lets say Tamar and Kaleb take over the starting spots that Miller and Race left.

That team is A LOT quicker and more athletic than the one we started the 2nd half of the season.

X is a big part of that.

But replacing Miller and Race, both slower players laterally, and one of them just not being athletic in general...it should completely change how we look offensively and defensively.

I also have a feeling Jakai Newton is going to surprise some people, and be a main rotation guy for us next year. He's flying under the radar because of his injury this past year. But in the few games I watched of him, including the game that was on ESPN, he sure looked like a guy that has that "dog" mentality. He had the highlight block on the other teams stud. But beyond that, he was the only one that was able to stand that guy up defensively. And he did it multiple times. I've got a feeling he's gonna push for a starter level role.

They said the same thing about Gunn and Banks so I would temper your expectations on Newman . They say the same thing every year about every frosh coming in but the reality is most frosh will not be big time rotation guys right away. I mean Bates looked great on video also. For that matter Peter Jurkin looked good of video dunking over 6'5 guys. Heck Malik was a 5 star and maybe played 10 minutes a game. We need portal guys ready to go from day one.

 

[IUNorth]

They said the same thing about Gunn and Banks so I would temper your expectations on Newman . They say the same thing every year about every frosh coming in but the reality is most frosh will not be big time rotation guys right away. I mean Bates looked great on video also. For that matter Peter Jurkin looked good of video dunking over 6'5 guys. Heck Malik was a 5 star and maybe played 10 minutes a game. We need portal guys ready to go from day one.

I didn't say those things, about those guys?...

And I think Banks should have played more than he did.

Newton looks different, to me. It takes an incredible amount of moxy to come into a game against arguably the best PG in the nation, and seek him out to guard him...and then largely shut him down while guarding him. And then also make a handful of tough shots too on the other end. And he had to know he was only going to get 1-2 minutes of playing time, when he went in, that night. So it says a lot about his ability to be ready to play as soon as he walks on the court.

We'll see. You never know until they go head to head with another high major. But I think he's going to be really, really good. Better than either Gunn or Banks.

 

[Willdog7]

Gonna need players to implement it.imo
We got two coming back that can really play..
And both of those guys are plug the hole guys
We practically need a new roster yo play quick spread the floor game.
Then you still need two athletes in the paint ..Like 6'10 's..
We need a bunch ..
Right now we don't make the tournament next yr..imo

You do not know that

 

[Willdog7]

I didn't say those things, about those guys?...

And I think Banks should have played more than he did.

Newton looks different, to me. It takes an incredible amount of moxy to come into a game against arguably the best PG in the nation, and seek him out to guard him...and then largely shut him down while guarding him. And then also make a handful of tough shots too on the other end. And he had to know he was only going to get 1-2 minutes of playing time, when he went in, that night. So it says a lot about his ability to be ready to play as soon as he walks on the court.

We'll see. You never know until they go head to head with another high major. But I think he's going to be really, really good. Better than either Gunn or Banks.

maybe not better but just as good ,a major piece of the puzzle.

 

[Willdog7]

The only way JHS comes back is if his draft stock plummets. He’s not coming back to work on his game if he stays in the first round.

I disagree.

 

[Willdog7]

I disagree.

He is a winner, for the first time in his life he lost.

 

[Al Bino]

I disagree.

Would you like to bet on it?

 

[Hatchets7times]

The more I think about it, the more excited I get about what next year's team could look like. I know, right now, its likely we'll take a step back in terms of wins/losses, NCAA seeding, etc...

But I've been dying for a new style of play since half way through last season. Unless we end up getting someone, or a couple of players, similar to TJD and Race, in the portal...I can't imagine we won't look quite a lot different next year stylistically.

X and Trey will be mainstays in the backcourt. Malik will be the focal point at the 5.

Its the other two positions that should dramatically change what we look like, and how we play next year. I would be surprised if we don't get a starter level guy, maybe even two in the portal. So whoever that player, or players, end up being, will heavily influence all this.


But lets say Tamar and Kaleb take over the starting spots that Miller and Race left.

That team is A LOT quicker and more athletic than the one we started the 2nd half of the season.

X is a big part of that.

But replacing Miller and Race, both slower players laterally, and one of them just not being athletic in general...it should completely change how we look offensively and defensively.

I also have a feeling Jakai Newton is going to surprise some people, and be a main rotation guy for us next year. He's flying under the radar because of his injury this past year. But in the few games I watched of him, including the game that was on ESPN, he sure looked like a guy that has that "dog" mentality. He had the highlight block on the other teams stud. But beyond that, he was the only one that was able to stand that guy up defensively. And he did it multiple times. I've got a feeling he's gonna push for a starter level role.

Renau and Galloway that's all we got..imo
X ..His status is unknown..
Guys you mentioned..Hardly any of those guys have even been on the floor.
We need 4 out of the portal ..Two or three that are starters
We're in a bad way going into the off season...

 

[bailey777]

Renau and Galloway that's all we got..imo
X ..His status is unknown..
Guys you mentioned..Hardly any of those guys have even been on the floor.
We need 4 out of the portal ..Two or three that are starters
We're in a bad way going into the off season...

4 from the portal minimum. Texas built a good team two years ago doing it.

 

[Willdog7]

Would you like to bet on it?

if I was not on disability I would.....lol

 

[TomEric4756]

Yes, next year’s offense needs to be different.
Defense can’t rely on TJD as a rim protecter either.
IU will have to stay in front of the ball.