Leaders and Legends

[82hoosier]

From the get-go this divisional conference alignment was one of the dumbest f****** ideas that the Hoosiers have ever signed up for. I'll reserve the dumbest f****** idea for the "Ban The Blue" marketing plan where you could get in to see Indiana play Michigan for $1 if you brought a can of soup with you.

When they finally dismantle this stupid divisional order, everybody is going to run away from it and say that "I wasn't in favor of this!"

This will be the best thing that ever happened to Indiana football since the Hoosiers went to the Rose Bowl, or maybe when Bill Mallory was hired. Or maybe Hep

I give zero credit to Fred Glass for the Big Ten Network contract and all of the funds that became available to improve facilities, although apparently that did not include bathrooms at the football stadium.

Coach Tom Allen - I have to admit I'm getting a little nervous but I still am hoping you can pull a rabbit out of your hat this year.

 

[vesuvius13]

If the new schedule is good if every team in the B1G every two years is very good. The current divisions isn't very good and teams don't play everyone every two years. I hope this year IU beats more than four teams and gets a bowl to win.
3-5-5 schedule 3 rivals rotate 5 teams in each year.

 

[Jssanto]

14 teams, right?
Three divisions of 5-5-4.
Add one school and 5-5-5.
Since geography no longer is relevant to the conferences there are many school possibilities.
Bring in a Texas school? Florida? Pittsburgh?

 

[Inigo Montoya]

I like using the 3-5-5 if it stays at 14 teams. You can play everybody home and home within 4 years and 8 conference games.

Who should be our 3?

Purdue. MSU maybe? Who else...

Besides Purdue, we've played the most B1G games against OSU. Followed by NU and then surprisingly IA.

Of the pre-1993 expansion B1G we've most frequently played PU, OSU and IA. Least are WI, MI, MN.

Here's a look at who we've played historically. Univ of Chicago is omitted.

School	Games	First	Last	Avg Interval
IL	71	1899	2017	1.67
IA	78	1912	2021	1.39
MI	70	1900	2021	1.71
MSU	67	1927	2021	1.43
MN	69	1906	2021	1.68
OSU	91	1904	2021	1.28
NU	83	1899	2019	1.45
PU	117	1899	2021	1.04
WI	62	1907	2020	1.85
PSU	25	1993	2021	1.16
MD	10	2014	Played 1934-35
NE	21	1936	Played 1936-47
RU	8	2014

 

[mk30]

I’d probably pick Pu, MSU, and O$u. 2 better than average chances and a home run possibility. Makes for 2 good years and maybe 1 great year.

 

[82hoosier]

I like using the 3-5-5 if it stays at 14 teams. You can play everybody home and home within 4 years and 8 conference games.

Who should be our 3?

Purdue. MSU maybe? Who else...

Besides Purdue, we've played the most B1G games against OSU. Followed by NU and then surprisingly IA.

Of the pre-1993 expansion B1G we've most frequently played PU, OSU and IA. Least are WI, MI, MN.

Here's a look at who we've played historically. Univ of Chicago is omitted.

School	Games	First	Last	Avg Interval
IL	71	1899	2017	1.67
IA	78	1912	2021	1.39
MI	70	1900	2021	1.71
MSU	67	1927	2021	1.43
MN	69	1906	2021	1.68
OSU	91	1904	2021	1.28
NU	83	1899	2019	1.45
PU	117	1899	2021	1.04
WI	62	1907	2020	1.85
PSU	25	1993	2021	1.16
MD	10	2014	Played 1934-35
NE	21	1936	Played 1936-47
RU	8	2014

Perhaps in 100 years the Rutgers game will it be a recognized rivalry.

 

[DANC]

If the new schedule is good if every team in the B1G every two years is very good. The current divisions isn't very good and teams don't play everyone every two years. I hope this year IU beats more than four teams and gets a bowl to win.
3-5-5 schedule 3 rivals rotate 5 teams in each year.

I don't get the 3-5-5. Does that mean 3 non-conference games and 5 home B1G games and 5 away B1G games?

 

[UncleMark]

I don't get the 3-5-5. Does that mean 3 non-conference games and 5 home B1G games and 5 away B1G games?

Each team plays three lock-ins every year. Then they play five others, and the other five the next year.

 

[DANC]

Each team plays three lock-ins every year. Then they play five others, and the other five the next year.

So 3 B1G lock-ins + 5 other B1G teams = 8. Add in 3 non-conference games and it's 11 total games.

Is the idea to add another non-conference game to get to 12?

 

[vesuvius13]

So 3 B1G lock-ins + 5 other B1G teams = 8. Add in 3 non-conference games and it's 11 total games.

Is the idea to add another non-conference game to get to 12?

That is what it means - 8 conference games and 4 out of conference games. With this schedule each B1G team would play every B1G team in a two year cycle. It also gives teams a better chance of playing 7 home games each year.

 

[DANC]

That is what it means - 8 conference games and 4 out of conference games. With this schedule each B1G team would play every B1G team in a two year cycle. It also gives teams a better chance of playing 7 home games each year.

I'd like it if our 3 permanent opponents were Purdue, Illinois, and Northwestern.
s
But you know Ohio State will be one of our permanent opponents. I'd bet the farm on it.

 

[76-1]

Illinois ought to be one of our three... If they're not a "natural" rival I don't know what is... All we need is a decent trophy...

I respectfully suggest "The Split Rail" in honor of INDIANA having been where Abraham Lincoln developed his character and work ethic and Illinois having been where he put it to use... They're less than a 3 hour drive campus to campus and historically we have already played them on a semi-regular basis...

P U has to be locked in solely for The Bucket...

Personally, I'd prefer to drop M$U and pick up Northwestern in their place but that's unlikely to happen, so the Spartans are most likely #3...

All that having been said, if Alvarez is calling the shots (and he is) then you can expect something closer to p u, Ohio $tate and Michigan (or P$U) to be our three...

Barry hates INDIANA with a passion and won't miss his last big chance to screw us for eternity, count on it...

 

[vesuvius13]

Illinois, MSU, and PU would be three good games each year to hold on to.

 

[td75]

Illinois, MSU, and PU would be three good games each year to hold on to.

This would certainly be my vote...makes the most sense.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

From the get-go this divisional conference alignment was one of the dumbest f****** ideas that the Hoosiers have ever signed up for. I'll reserve the dumbest f****** idea for the "Ban The Blue" marketing plan where you could get in to see Indiana play Michigan for $1 if you brought a can of soup with you.

When they finally dismantle this stupid divisional order, everybody is going to run away from it and say that "I wasn't in favor of this!"

This will be the best thing that ever happened to Indiana football since the Hoosiers went to the Rose Bowl, or maybe when Bill Mallory was hired. Or maybe Hep

I give zero credit to Fred Glass for the Big Ten Network contract and all of the funds that became available to improve facilities, although apparently that did not include bathrooms at the football stadium.

Coach Tom Allen - I have to admit I'm getting a little nervous but I still am hoping you can pull a rabbit out of your hat this year.

I am not sure it was a bad concept. Shitting the bed on execution created the problems IMO.

 

[UncleMark]

Illinois, MSU, and PU would be three good games each year to hold on to.

This would certainly be my vote...makes the most sense.

I seriously can't think of any particular B1G opponent that we would consider a real rival other than Purdue. Yeah, we've got the Spittoon with MSU, but how many people even know about that, yet alone give a shit?

If we could ever get consistently good enough where we could have both sides fired up year after year and both sides marking the game on their calendars, that would be a nice game to lock in. But right now there's no good candidates for that. Of all the likely suspects, I'd lean toward NW.

 

[DANC]

Illinois ought to be one of our three... If they're not a "natural" rival I don't know what is... All we need is a decent trophy...

I respectfully suggest "The Split Rail" in honor of INDIANA having been where Abraham Lincoln developed his character and work ethic and Illinois having been where he put it to use... They're less than a 3 hour drive campus to campus and historically we have already played them on a semi-regular basis...

P U has to be locked in solely for The Bucket...

Personally, I'd prefer to drop M$U and pick up Northwestern in their place but that's unlikely to happen, so the Spartans are most likely #3...

All that having been said, if Alvarez is calling the shots (and he is) then you can expect something closer to p u, Ohio $tate and Michigan (or P$U) to be our three...

Barry hates INDIANA with a passion and won't miss his last big chance to screw us for eternity, count on it...

I love the idea of a Railsplitter Trophy with Illinois. Excellent suggestion.

Barry has never forgiven IU for getting AT his at-the-time rushing record against them. Mal did leave AT in long after the game was decided, but isn't it time to get over it?

 

[Jackskip23]

I love the idea of a Railsplitter Trophy with Illinois. Excellent suggestion.

Barry has never forgiven IU for getting AT his at-the-time rushing record against them. Mal did leave AT in long after the game was decided, but isn't it time to get over it?

Alvarez wasn’t the Wisconsin coach when AT broke that record. Someone else mentioned animosity from him toward IU. Why, we added to mostly the W side of his record. Did something happen to create an issue?

 

[Champs1976]

So 3 B1G lock-ins + 5 other B1G teams = 8. Add in 3 non-conference games and it's 11 total games.

Is the idea to add another non-conference game to get to 12?

That would make a lot of sense, particularly since the 12th game could be non-conference with the Pac 12. Wasn't that the alliance announced last year?

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

I love the idea of a Railsplitter Trophy with Illinois. Excellent suggestion.

Barry has never forgiven IU for getting AT his at-the-time rushing record against them. Mal did leave AT in long after the game was decided, but isn't it time to get over it?

That was the guy before Barry who died of a heart attack, Dave McClain or possibly Jim Hilles.

 

[vesuvius13]

That was the guy before Barry who died of a heart attack, Dave McClain or possibly Jim Hilles.

Dave McClain died of a heart attack.

 

[Big Red Crimson Buffalo]

Dave McClain died of a heart attack.

I think AT did that when McClain was there. Definitely not Alvarez.
Wisconsin wouldn’t have any animosity toward IU. They’ve beaten IU to a pulp in football and basketball the last 25 years. They like us on their schedule.

 

[jsenleo]

That was the guy before Barry who died of a heart attack, Dave McClain or possibly Jim Hilles.

I was at Ball State at the same time Dave McClain was at Ball State, he left to go to Wisky the year I graduated... McClain was a GREAT coach.... he took with him most of the BSU staff which included Jim Hilles. McClain was bringing Wisky back to respectability with four straight 7 win seasons when he had his heart attack and Hilles took over.... Hilles had been the LB coach and he called one of his former All-MAC BSU players and one of my fraternity brothers, Kurt Humes, to replace him as the LB coach.... I was with Kurt this spring at a wedding and we talked quite a bit about his days as a college assistant and college football .... Also, Kurt is a brother-in-law of both Brady Hoke and Mike DeBord ...... Hillis was a great coach but not as a Head Coach and after one 3-9 season he was let go ... Wisky went back to oblivion until Barry came along

 

[DANC]

Alvarez wasn’t the Wisconsin coach when AT broke that record. Someone else mentioned animosity from him toward IU. Why, we added to mostly the W side of his record. Did something happen to create an issue?

Correct, he was coach in 1990, a year after AT graduated.

But we beat him his first year (I think) at Wisconsin after they got up on us something like 20-0. We came back against them to win a close one. I think Trent Green was QB, although my memory isn't what it used to be.

I was there. Miserable weather that year, but it was great to rub it in Wiscy fans faces after the game.

 

[Champs1976]

Virtually every year until the last couple the Mallory coached teams had good to great OLs. Bill knew the game is won in the trenches. Watching how those IU teams could so successfully run the ball was a great experience. If only CTA would develop that insight.

 

[Jackskip23]

Correct, he was coach in 1990, a year after AT graduated.

But we beat him his first year (I think) at Wisconsin after they got up on us something like 20-0. We came back against them to win a close one. I think Trent Green was QB, although my memory isn't what it used to be.

I was there. Miserable weather that year, but it was great to run it in Wiscy fans faces after the game.

I was at that game, too. Mal was suspended after the UM game and we went to Madison, dug ourselves into a hole, and then came back and won.

I was more curious about the animosity comment, which I don’t think existed. What did exist was the recruiting threat that Alvarez brought, since he pursued and signed several high profile Indiana kids that we badly wanted (Kevin Lyles, Eddie Faulkner, and Aaron Gibson). He’d already recruited into a high academics school, so that helped at Wisconsin, too. Illinois had already been taking kids from Indiana (Kevin Hardy, Mo Gardner, Darrick Brownlow, Josh Whitman) that we tried hard to get, and it made things difficult as Mal tried to sustain the program. He’d never hired coaches based on their ability to recruit, but he knew he had to make that more of a priority (hello Kit Cartwright). Not sure it ever worked.

 

[DANC]

I was at that game, too. Mal was suspended after the UM game and we went to Madison, dug ourselves into a hole, and then came back and won.

I was more curious about the animosity comment, which I don’t think existed. What did exist was the recruiting threat that Alvarez brought, since he pursued and signed several high profile Indiana kids that we badly wanted (Kevin Lyles, Eddie Faulkner, and Aaron Gibson). He’d already recruited into a high academics school, so that helped at Wisconsin, too. Illinois had already been taking kids from Indiana (Kevin Hardy, Mo Gardner, Darrick Brownlow, Josh Whitman) that we tried hard to get, and it made things difficult as Mal tried to sustain the program. He’d never hired coaches based on their ability to recruit, but he knew he had to make that more of a priority (hello Kit Cartwright). Not sure it ever worked.

Maybe that's why Barry wanted to thrash us - so he could recruit better in Indiana?

Maybe it's not animosity on his part, but it's pretty clear he's pounded us as often as he can and has royally screwed us in his unoffical role as B1G Commissioner by keeping us out of the B1G playoff game.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

Maybe that's why Barry wanted to thrash us - so he could recruit better in Indiana?

Maybe it's not animosity on his part, but it's pretty clear he's pounded us as often as he can and has royally screwed us in his unoffical role as B1G Commissioner by keeping us out of the B1G playoff game.

Yes, he kept us out of the B1G championship game...even though with a 'loss' on their record, Ohio State would have owned the tiebreaker over us and still gone to the championship game.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

I think AT did that when McClain was there. Definitely not Alvarez.
Wisconsin wouldn’t have any animosity toward IU. They’ve beaten IU to a pulp in football and basketball the last 25 years. They like us on their schedule.

Correct unfortunately

 

[hoosier roadtrips]

Virtually every year until the last couple the Mallory coached teams had good to great OLs. Bill knew the game is won in the trenches. Watching how those IU teams could so successfully run the ball was a great experience. If only CTA would develop that insight.

Mallory was also able to land some excellent junior college linemen in Ian Beckles and Eric Moore in the late 1980s. That helped us create a great running attack with AT. It seemed that at some point after that it was more difficult academically for us to recruit JUCO players.

 

[Courtsensetwo]

Mallory was also able to land some excellent junior college linemen in Ian Beckles and Eric Moore in the late 1980s. That helped us create a great running attack with AT. It seemed that at some point after that it was more difficult academically for us to recruit JUCO players.

Beckles was stud. Canadian IIRC.

 

[Jackskip23]

Mallory was also able to land some excellent junior college linemen in Ian Beckles and Eric Moore in the late 1980s. That helped us create a great running attack with AT. It seemed that at some point after that it was more difficult academically for us to recruit JUCO players.

Troy Newton and Todd Oberdorf were two other Juco O linemen whom Mal brought in and who played a lot on good IU teams. The standards didn’t change, though. It was always difficult to get kids admitted because most conference schools had minimum core class requirements that kept them out.

As I said earlier, we’re going to need to ride a defense that came back to the pack after the reset following the Covid season. Would love to have some of those Mal O lines, but they were good because Bill really knew that position and placed a huge emphasis on it.

 

[76-1]

Maybe that's why Barry wanted to thrash us - so he could recruit better in Indiana?

Maybe it's not animosity on his part, but it's pretty clear he's pounded us as often as he can and has royally screwed us in his unoffical role as B1G Commissioner by keeping us out of the B1G playoff game.

My impression was that Alvarez was made Very aware of what the final nail in Mortons career was by the Wisconsin AD that hired him and as the guy taking his job he made a point to pound IU whenever possible... That even carried over to when he became AD and hired coaches... Could be wrong, but it always appeared to me that they gave more than a little extra effort to "run it up" if the opportunity presented itself ever since Barry arrived...

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

My impression was that Alvarez was made Very aware of what the final nail in Mortons career was by the Wisconsin AD that hired him and as the guy taking his job he made a point to pound IU whenever possible... That even carried over to when he became AD and hired coaches... Could be wrong, but it always appeared to me that they gave more than a little extra effort to "run it up" if the opportunity presented itself ever since Barry arrived...

So the guy that replaced the guy that we pounded wanted to pound us to pay us back for the guy getting fired that lead to him getting the job?

The mental gymnastics is Nadia Comaneci level with some of these theories.

 

[76-1]

So the guy that replaced the guy that we pounded wanted to pound us to pay us back for the guy getting fired that lead to him getting the job?

The mental gymnastics is Nadia Comaneci level with some of these theories.

I would explain it to you (as in his Athletic Director told him to do it and how the entire state felt about it) but you clearly wouldn't understand it... 🙄

 

[Jackskip23]

So the guy that replaced the guy that we pounded wanted to pound us to pay us back for the guy getting fired that lead to him getting the job?

The mental gymnastics is Nadia Comaneci level with some of these theories.

Morton went 3-21 in the Big Ten during his time at Wisconsin, including the AT rushing record game, which was the only time he coached against IU. I doubt we were very high on the pay-back list, if there was one. Alvarez was just an outstanding coach. Wish we’d had him at IU.

 

[76-1]

Troy Newton and Todd Oberdorf were two other Juco O linemen whom Mal brought in and who played a lot on good IU teams. The standards didn’t change, though. It was always difficult to get kids admitted because most conference schools had minimum core class requirements that kept them out.

As I said earlier, we’re going to need to ride a defense that came back to the pack after the reset following the Covid season. Would love to have some of those Mal O lines, but they were good because Bill really knew that position and placed a huge emphasis on it.

Having Stripling and Belu on staff didn't hurt much either 😉😎

 

[frikkenfrakken]

MD would be a decent rival game, what with 2002. They will struggle to find 3 rivals for them, and we've been duking it out for "not the worst team in our division" bragging rights.

Plus PU and MSU, cause trophies.

 

[vesuvius13]

IU administration wanted coach Mal to fire a couple of his offensive coaches and coach refused. Coach didn't last much longer after that and I am sure it was part of the reason. Coach Mal was a very good guy and coach and coach Allen reminds me of him. The difference coach Allen seems to understand he needs to remove coaches that aren't doing the job [we don't know what the deal is with Hiller is]. From what I have heard the two defensive coaches were told to find new jobs that didn't live up to LEO after talking to players transferring.

 

[4IUSox2]

Wow, Oberdorf!! There’s a name I’ve not heard in years!! On his Recruiting trip, Little 500 of ‘87, another JUCO OL already on the IU team whom my roomies and I barely knew, showed up at our party with Oberdorf. The 2 of them pretty much took up both our couches all by themselves, hardly talked and probably drank half a keg by themselves!!