Kopp/Stewart shooting

[MikeHoncho69]

IU's offensive ineptitude can all be traced back to a lack of consistent outside shooting. What woes us is the following:

Since February 1, Miller Kopp and Parker Stewart are a combined 28/91 from three, which is good for a 30% clip.

If even one of those two can find some consistency from the three-point line tomorrow night, I like our chances.

If not, I see Saint Mary's packing the lane, sagging off shooters, and daring us to try to beat them from beyond the three-point line.

 

[Tru2Irish]

Never saw two guys who have shooting abilities but wastes them. Stewart cannot guard a stone. Kopp makes bonehead decisions. Really disappointed in Race's game last night. It's time to step up on the big stage.

 

[IUbball_lifer]

Agree. And not only have they shot 3s poorly, but they both fail to understand their limitations. Rarely does anything good happen when either of them dribble the ball. Especially Stewart - I’m dumbfounded as to why he is not sternly coached to never take more than a couple of dribbles. And stay away from the rim. I would bet his finishing rate is quite bad. Both should be limited to looking for the 3 off of the pass, feeding the post, or making a move with no more than a few bounces that results in a shot or a pass.

 

[GeorgeStrait IU]

Agree. And not only have they shot 3s poorly, but they both fail to understand their limitations. Rarely does anything good happen when either of them dribble the ball. Especially Stewart - I’m dumbfounded as to why he is not sternly coached to never take more than a couple of dribbles. And stay away from the rim. I would bet his finishing rate is quite bad. Both should be limited to looking for the 3 off of the pass, feeding the post, or making a move with no more than a few bounces that results in a shot or a pass.

Ol Parker has found out the B1G is alot tougher than the OVC and ball in his hands.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Never saw two guys who have shooting abilities but wastes them. Stewart cannot guard a stone. Kopp makes bonehead decisions. Really disappointed in Race's game last night. It's time to step up on the big stage.

Agreed. If Stewart and Kopp are really the shooters we believed them to be when they joined the program, the biggest stage is the place to prove it. Nothing would make me happier.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Ol Parker has found out the B1G is alot tougher than the OVC and ball in his hands.

The sequence in the first half when Stewart looked like a deer in the headlights with the ball in his hands driving toward the basket was priceless. The ball ended up banking off the backboard for about a 5-foot layup!

 

[IUNorth]

I'm wondering if its not in both their heads now at this point. Missing shots is one thing. But more and more, they're passing up good looks. Normally, that's not the worst thing a kid can do. Especially if they're capable of creating something better than the look they passed up. But with these 2, they need to take those shots as they happen. As neither of them are good at much of anything off the dribble. Obviously them making better than 30% of them would be ideal. But even if they did make 30%, we still need them to take them, so they're threats that need to be guarded out to the line. That opens up the paint for TJD and Race to work.

It was one of the more surprising things from last night, how little Wyoming actually double teamed TJD. They'd hedge and show help, but they rarely committed to it and forced him to give it up. It was almost like they were worried guys like Kopp and Stewart would beat them.

I hope St Marys does the same thing. They won't though. They'll commit to doubling our post guys. Our perimeter guys are going to have to make shots for us to win. Doesn't have to be 15 3's, or anything like that. But 5-6 made threes will be needed.

 

[bailey777]

I'm wondering if its not in both their heads now at this point. Missing shots is one thing. But more and more, they're passing up good looks. Normally, that's not the worst thing a kid can do. Especially if they're capable of creating something better than the look they passed up. But with these 2, they need to take those shots as they happen. As neither of them are good at much of anything off the dribble. Obviously them making better than 30% of them would be ideal. But even if they did make 30%, we still need them to take them, so they're threats that need to be guarded out to the line. That opens up the paint for TJD and Race to work.

It was one of the more surprising things from last night, how little Wyoming actually double teamed TJD. They'd hedge and show help, but they rarely committed to it and forced him to give it up. It was almost like they were worried guys like Kopp and Stewart would beat them.

I hope St Marys does the same thing. They won't though. They'll commit to doubling our post guys. Our perimeter guys are going to have to make shots for us to win. Doesn't have to be 15 3's, or anything like that. But 5-6 made threes will be needed.

Correct we are going to have to make some three 2 or 13 is not going to cut it. It would help to make a few early so they do not commit to packing the lane and putting two or three guys on TJD. But I do not want to see Galloway shooting threes he simply cannot make them.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

I'm wondering if its not in both their heads now at this point. Missing shots is one thing. But more and more, they're passing up good looks. Normally, that's not the worst thing a kid can do. Especially if they're capable of creating something better than the look they passed up. But with these 2, they need to take those shots as they happen. As neither of them are good at much of anything off the dribble. Obviously them making better than 30% of them would be ideal. But even if they did make 30%, we still need them to take them, so they're threats that need to be guarded out to the line. That opens up the paint for TJD and Race to work.

It was one of the more surprising things from last night, how little Wyoming actually double teamed TJD. They'd hedge and show help, but they rarely committed to it and forced him to give it up. It was almost like they were worried guys like Kopp and Stewart would beat them.

I hope St Marys does the same thing. They won't though. They'll commit to doubling our post guys. Our perimeter guys are going to have to make shots for us to win. Doesn't have to be 15 3's, or anything like that. But 5-6 made threes will be needed.

The players have said a few times throughout the season that Woodson has scolded them for passing up open looks. I'd be curious to know what the conversations between Woodson and Kopp/Stewart have been like the last few weeks in terms of shooting the ball. He knows better than anyone else that we need *at least* the threat of outside shooting to keep defenses honest, so it wouldn't surprise me if Woodson has continually given them the green light.

You mentioned the shooting slump being in their heads. I'm with you on that. There's no better cure than to see a few go down. Here's to hoping that happens early and often tomorrow night.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Correct we are going to have to make some three 2 or 13 is not going to cut it. It would help to make a few early so they do not commit to packing the lane and putting two or three guys on TJD. But I do not want to see Galloway shooting threes he simply cannot make them.

Ok…have any of you scouted or looked at St Marys? They don’t take very many threes. They rely more on the post and drives. We can play this team straight up. Their strength isn’t better than our strengths other than they are more efficient offensively. I’m taking IUs bigs over theirs every stinking time.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Correct we are going to have to make some three 2 or 13 is not going to cut it. It would help to make a few early so they do not commit to packing the lane and putting two or three guys on TJD. But I do not want to see Galloway shooting threes he simply cannot make them.

Galloway should never shoot a 3. I don’t think Geronimo should, either. But at least he knocked one down last night - which is more than can be said about our “shooters”.

XJ is our best outside threat. He shouldn’t be. He shouldn’t have to be. But shoulda, woulda, coulda…he is.

Also, Bates should play more. Stewart should play less.

Love seeing Geronimo playing how he is!

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Correct we are going to have to make some three 2 or 13 is not going to cut it. It would help to make a few early so they do not commit to packing the lane and putting two or three guys on TJD. But I do not want to see Galloway shooting threes he simply cannot make them.

I'm with you on Galloway. I love his hustle and defense, but he has absolutely no business shooting the ball. He's 5/24 from three since January 1.

 

[kkott]

Galloway should never shoot a 3. I don’t think Geronimo should, either. But at least he knocked one down last night - which is more than can be said about our “shooters”.

XJ is our best outside threat. He shouldn’t be. He shouldn’t have to be. But shoulda, woulda, coulda…he is.

Also, Bates should play more. Stewart should play less.

Love seeing Geronimo playing how he is!

Geronimo's shot has improved a ton and if they are laying off him and he feels it, I have no problem with him shooting. Galloway and Thompson to me are the guys that shouldn't be shooting.... there's a reason you're so open boys! That's one of the biggest things Galloway could work on for next year, but it ain't happening this year.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

Geronimo's shot has improved a ton and if they are laying off him and he feels it, I have no problem with him shooting. Galloway and Thompson to me are the guys that shouldn't be shooting.... there's a reason you're so open boys! That's one of the biggest things Galloway could work on for next year, but it ain't happening this year.

JG is shooting 28% from beyond the arc. Maybe he’s improving. If so, that’s great news. But, generally speaking, that’s not the kind of shot we should want from our offensive sets.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

JG is shooting 28% from beyond the arc. Maybe he’s improving. If so, that’s great news. But, generally speaking, that’s not the kind of shot we should want from our offensive sets.

He’s got the green light. All players 1-4 are expected to shoot it if they are open. If durr is in its 1-5. Woody doesn’t care if they miss. He wants the 4 out. Come he’ll or high water we shoot if open. He also doesn’t run many sets. We look for match ups.

 

[larsIU]

But even if they did make 30%, we still need them to take them, so they're threats that need to be guarded out to the line. That opens up the paint for TJD and Race to work.

Which make me wonder why Bates doesn't get a few more minutes. I know he struggles a bit with decision making and defenese and, while Steward is a better overall defender he's not that much better. Bates isn't afraid to jack it and he's better off the dribble than either one of them.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

Geronimo's shot has improved a ton and if they are laying off him and he feels it, I have no problem with him shooting. Galloway and Thompson to me are the guys that shouldn't be shooting.... there's a reason you're so open boys! That's one of the biggest things Galloway could work on for next year, but it ain't happening this year.

Galloway's value on the floor would increase dramatically with a decent three-point shot. Combined with his defensive ability and skill driving to the basket, he could be a very dangerous player in '22-23...

 

[IUNorth]

The thing with Galloway is...if he has an open 3 point shot, that also means he likely has an open driving lane. He needs to use the offseason to improve his shot.

They all just need to play to their strengths. Parker and Miller are good shooters. They'd destroy any of us in a game of horse...I might actually give them a run...but you know what I mean. That is their offensive strength, they need to realize/know that passing up open shots is hurting our team. X and the bigs are working their asses off to create good offensive opportunities. And open 3's by Miller and Parker are absolutely part of that. Anticipate it, step into it, not away from it.

JG, Trey, Race...go make plays at the rim.

 

[crazed_hoosier2]

He’s got the green light. All players 1-4 are expected to shoot it if they are open. If durr is in its 1-5. Woody doesn’t care if they miss. He wants the 4 out. Come he’ll or high water we shoot if open. He also doesn’t run many sets. We look for match ups.

I used the term “sets” - I should’ve said possessions.

Anyway, I realize they have the green light. I’m questioning the wisdom of that when we have a lot of bad shooters and a couple average ones.

 

[MikeHoncho69]

The thing with Galloway is...if he has an open 3 point shot, that also means he likely has an open driving lane. He needs to use the offseason to improve his shot.

They all just need to play to their strengths. Parker and Miller are good shooters. They'd destroy any of us in a game of horse...I might actually give them a run...but you know what I mean. That is their offensive strength, they need to realize/know that passing up open shots is hurting our team. X and the bigs are working their asses off to create good offensive opportunities. And open 3's by Miller and Parker are absolutely part of that. Anticipate it, step into it, not away from it.

JG, Trey, Race...go make plays at the rim.

I have no doubts that Woodson is doing his best to educate these guys on what you mentioned here. My assumption would be that Trey will spend the off-season working with his dad (Culver Academy head coach) and IU trainers on developing his three-point shot.

Take Iowa's Keegan Murray for example -- he shot 29.6% from three last season as a freshman and improved it to 40.5% this season as a sophomore. I believe any player is capable of making an improvement like that with enough summer reps. It's all about having the dedication to put the work in when no one is watching.

 

[bailey777]

Galloway should never shoot a 3. I don’t think Geronimo should, either. But at least he knocked one down last night - which is more than can be said about our “shooters”.

XJ is our best outside threat. He shouldn’t be. He shouldn’t have to be. But shoulda, woulda, coulda…he is.

Also, Bates should play more. Stewart should play less.

Love seeing Geronimo playing how he is!

Bates should maybe take minutes from Galloway as well. He was not good last night and fouled out in only 12 minutes of action. A foul every 2:40. Oh and he was 0-2 from three.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I used the term “sets” - I should’ve said possessions.

Anyway, I realize they have the green light. I’m questioning the wisdom of that when we have a lot of bad shooters and a couple average ones.

It’s who he is. Frankly I like that. Only people who get 2-3 stars switch styles. You want to show you can have players fit the system. I mean..Wyoming will have a bunch of film showing a point guard crab walking. Look at Cal, he plays a system and recruits to it. Woody won’t be changing the offense.

 

[bailey777]

Galloway's value on the floor would increase dramatically with a decent three-point shot. Combined with his defensive ability and skill driving to the basket, he could be a very dangerous player in '22-23...

Galloway will always be limited unless he can improve his shooting alot from outside. And if he is playing 30 plus minutes a games without an outside shot he probably will not be that hard to guard teams will figure out fast just stand back and dare him to shoot it.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I know how all of you “feel”. This isn’t about how you feel. Woody plays defense first. Then offense. All players 1-4 are expected to let it fly. The woody “should” comments should be over. These guys aren’t just letting it fly on a whim. Woody expects them to shoot if open.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Galloway will always be limited unless he can improve his shooting alot from outside. And if he is playing 30 plus minutes a games without an outside shot he probably will not be that hard to guard teams will figure out fast just stand back and dare him to shoot it.

They already do….that’s why he’s open.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Anyone on the court should shoot when they’re open. You have to be a threat or it’s going to jam up TJD and Race inside with double teams. This is why Kopp and Stewart play so much. You can’t sag off them like you can Trey, Bates, etc. There’s a lot more to basketball than the stat sheet.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Anyone on the court should shoot when they’re open. You have to be a threat or it’s going to jam up TJD and Race inside with double teams. This is why Kopp and Stewart play so much. You can’t sag off them like you can Trey, Bates, etc. There’s a lot more to basketball than the stat sheet.

Bates has at least hurt them for it too. They all have the green light.

 

[kkott]

The thing with Galloway is...if he has an open 3 point shot, that also means he likely has an open driving lane. He needs to use the offseason to improve his shot.

They all just need to play to their strengths. Parker and Miller are good shooters. They'd destroy any of us in a game of horse...I might actually give them a run...but you know what I mean. That is their offensive strength, they need to realize/know that passing up open shots is hurting our team. X and the bigs are working their asses off to create good offensive opportunities. And open 3's by Miller and Parker are absolutely part of that. Anticipate it, step into it, not away from it.

JG, Trey, Race...go make plays at the rim.

I don't agree with this. Didn't you ever had a guy who was a bad shooter but a good driver? I always gave that guy a couple extra feet to shoot. I may have even told him on occasion I didn't think he could make that shot and tried to goad him into shooting!

These teams want Trey to shoot, that's why he's open, but yet they still guard Parker and Miller as shooters, which is why they aren't. I'm not sure why they guard them still, but they do.

 

[Fpeaugh2]

Bates has at least hurt them for it too. They all have the green light.

I can assure you that Bates’s 3 pt shooting is not on a single scouting report. He’s shooting under 30% for the year. Stewart is shooting much more contested 3s at 40%. The staff understands this and most fans don’t.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I can assure you that Bates’s 3 pt shooting is not on a single scouting report. He’s shooting under 30% for the year. Stewart is shooting much more contested 3s at 40%. The staff understands this and most fans don’t.

Not what I’m saying. He’s left open and has hit those shots. Recently. The guys they leave open haven't made anyone pay. That’s why Kopp and Stewart are bottled up.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I don't agree with this. Didn't you ever had a guy who was a bad shooter but a good driver? I always gave that guy a couple extra feet to shoot. I may have even told him on occasion I didn't think he could make that shot and tried to goad him into shooting!

These teams want Trey to shoot, that's why he's open, but yet they still guard Parker and Miller as shooters, which is why they aren't. I'm not sure why they guard them still, but they do.

Their percentages say otherwise. You don’t back away from a 36-40% shooter.

 

[i'vegotwinners]

JG getting more shots is key.

he's the guy who needs to be a bigger part of the offense, and besides his inside work and cleanup, he has a good mid range and 3 shot.

and he and X have been the best from 3 lately of the guys that play a lot.

Bates has been looking better on offense too lately, considering he doesn't get a lot of mins.

i wish CMW wouldn't have played Tre as much yesterday. i don't think he is 100% yet after the groin thing, and would have preferred he got the extra rest.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Agreed. If Stewart and Kopp are really the shooters we believed them to be when they joined the program, the biggest stage is the place to prove it. Nothing would make me happier.

Kopp's reputation was as a great 3 pt shooter was over-hyped. He was a career 36% 3 pt shooter for his career at NW; he's close to that now at IU (,364). He's also a very poor rebounder for someone 6'7" and 215 lbs.....again he is exactly the same there as he was at NW. The one area where he has significantly fallen off is in his 2 pt shooting, going from 43% at NW to 36% at IU. As a 3 pt shooter, he's strictly a stand still catch and release shooter. If he's moving or his rhythm is affected in any way his effectiveness falls off significantly.

I had higher hopes for PS, given that he shot 42% as a freshman in the ACC. He seems to require a little less room than Kopp and has a little more flexibility. His problems seem to be more between the ears than Kopp's.

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Never saw two guys who have shooting abilities but wastes them. Stewart cannot guard a stone. Kopp makes bonehead decisions. Really disappointed in Race's game last night. It's time to step up on the big stage.

You didn't watch the game yesterday if you think Stewart can't guard a stone.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Galloway should never shoot a 3. I don’t think Geronimo should, either. But at least he knocked one down last night - which is more than can be said about our “shooters”.

XJ is our best outside threat. He shouldn’t be. He shouldn’t have to be. But shoulda, woulda, coulda…he is.

Also, Bates should play more. Stewart should play less.

Love seeing Geronimo playing how he is!

Galloway and Race shouldn't take a 3 unless they're wide open and the shot clock has less than 10 remaining.

 

[kkott]

Their percentages say otherwise. You don’t back away from a 36-40% shooter.

They do, I'm just saying neither has been very good over the last third of the season, and I would guess Parker's been even worse than Miller. At the beginning of the B10 season, I think Parker actually was the best 3 pt % shooter in the league. My, how things have changed!

I'm just saying for me as a coach, I'd gamble on doubling off them to dig down on TJD. Personally, I hope they don't because I feel better putting our eggs in TJD's basket than Kopp or Stewart's at the moment, although I still want those guys shooting, because at some point, I think they'll start making them.

 

[steelyvan]

fwiw: Galloway's shot technique is definitely better. I have high hopes for his future from the perimeter.
JG needs to keep shooting a couple of threes max every game.

 

[HoosierinNebraska]

Kopp's comfort areas seem to be the baseline or top of the key. For Parker, it's the wing. Passing up an open look is as bad as taking an ill-advised shot. It all comes down to decision making.

 

[IUNorth]

I don't agree with this. Didn't you ever had a guy who was a bad shooter but a good driver? I always gave that guy a couple extra feet to shoot. I may have even told him on occasion I didn't think he could make that shot and tried to goad him into shooting!

These teams want Trey to shoot, that's why he's open, but yet they still guard Parker and Miller as shooters, which is why they aren't. I'm not sure why they guard them still, but they do.

Fine line there. When you give guys ar this level a couple feet that jsut means they have more room to dribble at you and make a move on you.

To my point…if Trey is open enough to shoot it…it likely means he has a clean dribble towards the basket. I’ll take Trey making that move, whatever it ends up leading to, over shooting a 3, right now, every time.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

They do, I'm just saying neither has been very good over the last third of the season, and I would guess Parker's been even worse than Miller. At the beginning of the B10 season, I think Parker actually was the best 3 pt % shooter in the league. My, how things have changed!

I'm just saying for me as a coach, I'd gamble on doubling off them to dig down on TJD. Personally, I hope they don't because I feel better putting our eggs in TJD's basket than Kopp or Stewart's at the moment, although I still want those guys shooting, because at some point, I think they'll start making them.

From what I’ve seen they don’t. Won’t zone. Play straight up. Advantage us. Our post guys are absolutely quicker. X can guard their point. We have the advantage if we can get out in transition too. I expect this. The win against the zags is an anomaly. They literally play slow. We’ve seen this in Wisconsin and they are not as good as Wisconsin.