Keir Starmer: "We need to reduce immigration - significantly."

[Ohio Guy]

Funny, people are throwing a shitfit over a couple van loads of white people from South Africa but roll the carpet out for plane loads of discards from every other sunny place on earth.

I don't think that's what the problem is.

The problem is that for the better part of the last decade Trump and his proxies have been railing on immigrants coming from "shithole" countries, that America is for Americans and not really care about people escaping political persecution. If nothing else, you'd have to agree that essentially doing an about-face on all that rhetoric and making an exception for white South Africans isn't a good optic.

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

Funny, people are throwing a shitfit over a couple van loads of white people from South Africa but roll the carpet out for plane loads of discards from every other sunny place on earth.

I don’t see many shitfits over these couple of van loads. It’s the hypocrisy that causes fecal matter to accumulate

 

[WhyisIUBBcursed]

I don't think that's what the problem is.

The problem is that for the better part of the last decade Trump and his proxies have been railing on immigrants coming from "shithole" countries, that America is for Americans and not really care about people escaping political persecution. If nothing else, you'd have to agree that essentially doing an about-face on all that rhetoric and making an exception for white South Africans isn't a good optic.

I’m guessing Trump thought Miss S Africa was hot at the miss universe pageant and decided to invite as many as he could

 

[Ohio Guy]

I’m going to throw out my daughter’s experience with refugees again. Afghans are highly educated, generally speak good English, and adapt well. But because most of them are of Muslim faith and have dark skin they are no longer welcome. I just want to get rid of the hypocrisy

My anecdotal experience fits with what you're saying in regard to the Muslims I've met as well. During my undergrad years I met several guys from Saudi Arabia. For some reason, there was strong international pipeline to my tiny college. I actually helped with ESL classes as a work study job.

I've stayed in pretty close contact with four of them - one guy went back to SA, but three others are here and are productive members of society and check all the boxes Googly brought up.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

No.

yes.

hypocrisy isn't a good look

 

[sweetsilence]

I don’t see many shitfits over these couple of van loads. It’s the hypocrisy that causes fecal matter to accumulate

yes.

hypocrisy isn't a good look

Ask the episcopalalians.

You're side is showing their ass too. Why not welcome such a small number? You're feeding right in to it.

 

[larsIU]

My anecdotal experience fits with what you're saying in regard to the Muslims I've met as well. During my undergrad years I met several guys from Saudi Arabia. For some reason, there was strong international pipeline to my tiny college. I actually helped with ESL classes as a work study job.

I've stayed in pretty close contact with four of them - one guy went back to SA, but three others are here and are productive members of society and check all the boxes Googly brought up.

Africans also end up being generally really good memebers of society. Little crime. Work hard, though much of it is unskilled or trade related. Second gen will change that. Third gen will be more prosperous than citizens born in America. Happens time and again for MOST immigrant groups.

Also, not htat it should matter, much of the former commonwealth countries in Africa are Christian.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Ask the episcopalalians.

You're side is showing their ass too. Why not welcome such a small number? You're feeding right in to it.

I didn't say anything about not welcoming them.

I (and others) are pointing out the hypocrisy of those that can't decide if immigration should be allowed or not... hard to defend Trump when his position is so fluid but you're getting an A for effort.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Also, not htat it should matter, much of the former commonwealth countries in Africa are Christian.

It absolutely matters.

 

[sweetsilence]

I don't think that's what the problem is.

The problem is that for the better part of the last decade Trump and his proxies have been railing on immigrants coming from "shithole" countries, that America is for Americans and not really care about people escaping political persecution. If nothing else, you'd have to agree that essentially doing an about-face on all that rhetoric and making an exception for white South Africans isn't a good optic.

It would make more sense for them to go to the Netherlands from a historical perspective anyway.

I would like to see immigration reform with abolition of the preference system.

People shouldn't get to come here just because their political situation sucks. They can go somewhere else or deal with it. It sucks for them but they're not our responsibility. If they could show merit that could grant access.

 

[Ohio Guy]

It absolutely matters.

Why?

 

[sweetsilence]

I didn't say anything about not welcoming them.

I (and others) are pointing out the hypocrisy of those that can't decide if immigration should be allowed or not... hard to defend Trump when his position is so fluid but you're getting an A for effort.

I'm not trying to defend him.

I want bare minimum immigration from all places. We have our own problems to fix and don't need any more than necessary.

 

[Ohio Guy]

It would make more sense for them to go to the Netherlands from a historical perspective anyway.

I would like to see immigration reform with abolition of the preference system.

People shouldn't get to come here just because their political situation sucks. They can go somewhere else or deal with it. It's sucks for them but they're not our responsibility. If they could show merit that could grant access.

While I agree that there is need for some immigration reform, a lot of what you wrote is about as un-American as anything posted here.

I’d guess most of us reading this wouldn’t be here if the U.S. took that approach to immigration in the last 250 years or so.

 

[larsIU]

It absolutely matters.

fair enough.

 

[Ohio Guy]

I'm not trying to defend him.

I want bare minimum immigration from all places. We have our own problems to fix and don't need any more than necessary.

How do you feel about US involvement and assistance in third world countries and/or countries immigrants are seeking asylum from?

 

[sweetsilence]

While I agree that there is need for some immigration reform, a lot of what you wrote is about as un-American as anything posted here.

I’d guess most of us reading this wouldn’t be here if the U.S. took that approach to immigration in the last 250 years or so.

Preference system didn't exist until 1965. Did just fine without it.

You can modernize quotas without handing out visas because someone is related to someone here. We have over 330+ million people we know about and struggle to support legal citizens. How is it un american to want to prioritize our own?

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Preference system didn't exist until 1965. Did just fine without it.

You can modernize quotas without handing out visas because someone is related to someone here. We have over 330+ million people we know about and struggle to support legal citizens. How is it un american to want to prioritize our own?

You're assuming immigrants are a net negative and don't add to the tax base. I would think more people paying taxes would be helpful to support all.

There was another thread on here complaining that not enough people are having kids and the effect that will have on our population going forward. Seems like a more sensible immigration policy could help address population decline.

 

[sweetsilence]

How do you feel about US involvement and assistance in third world countries and/or countries immigrants are seeking asylum from?

Fine with me. Makes more sense to try and help them where they are.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Fine with me. Makes more sense to try and help them where they are.

or it's using more resources helping them there than the resources that it would have taken to help them here. Precious resources taken away from "legal" citizens either way eh

 

[sweetsilence]

or it's using more resources helping them there than the resources that it would have taken to help them here. Precious resources taken away from "legal" citizens either way eh

Money is going for aid anyway. Other things like local legal and healthcare resources wouldn't be allocated to them if they aren't here.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Money is going for aid anyway. Other things like local legal and healthcare resources wouldn't be allocated to them if they aren't here.

View embedded media

You don't think there are extra costs for the logistics of providing aid elsewhere?

 

[sweetsilence]

You don't think there are extra costs for the logistics of providing aid elsewhere?

Financial costs.

There is a societal cost to bringing in too many who won't assimilate.

Why do you want these people here so badly? It surely isn't to make new friends.
We already have enough to provide cultural diversity.

Oh yeah, future potential dem voters.

 

[hoot1]

You can't have immigration (at any scale) and welfare states. They're not economically compatible long term. The larger the welfare state the more selective countries need to be with immigration.

What about Social Security and an older population along with a low birth rate?

Don't we need more working younger persons paying into the program via immigration?

Just asking.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Financial costs.

There is a societal cost to bringing in too many who won't assimilate.

Why do you want these people here so badly? It surely isn't to make new friends.
We already have enough to provide cultural diversity.

Oh yeah, future potential dem voters.

Some sort of blood guilt whereby America’s success means we must take in the wretched refuse of every country on earth as it likely came at their expense.

And pre- New Deal and Great Society, perhaps loose immigration and refugee practices made sense, especially when you needed settlers with few other options to tame an entire continent.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

Financial costs.

There is a societal cost to bringing in too many who won't assimilate.

Why do you want these people here so badly? It surely isn't to make new friends.
We already have enough to provide cultural diversity.

Oh yeah, future potential dem voters.

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

If we are dictating who gets to live here, I'd prefer to deport MAGA followers vs new immigrants.

And btw, immigrants are just as often conservative as they are liberal. Republicans stance on immigration may cause them to lose some votes among the newly immigrated but it's not because it's just a bunch of liberals crossing the border. Of course, those "illegal" immigrants don't get to vote if they're really illegal. Of course, people waiting on asylum requests aren't really here illegally (although don't get to vote either).

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

You're assuming immigrants are a net negative and don't add to the tax base. I would think more people paying taxes would be helpful to support all.

There was another thread on here complaining that not enough people are having kids and the effect that will have on our population going forward. Seems like a more sensible immigration policy could help address population decline.

Illegal immigrants are a net drain. What they add to the tax base they take more from in assistance.

So your brilliant plan to fix demographics and the fiscal cliff is to add more net takers.

You never disappoint Hickory.

 

[HurryingHoosiers]

And Republican's hard-line stance on immigration has led to bills expanding child labor in Florida

https://www.wusf.org/politics-issues/2025-04-01/florida-child-labor-rollback-bill-amended-to-allow-some-13-year-olds-to-work.

Maybe if the kid is working, they can get 3 dolls instead of 2

 

[hoot1]

What about Social Security and an older population along with a low birth rate?

Don't we need more working younger persons paying into the program via immigration?

Just asking.

On top of that, with Trump bringing more working class manufacturing jobs back to the United States, won't we need more immigrants to fill jobs that don't interest our present day younger folks?

 

[sweetsilence]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

If we are dictating who gets to live here, I'd prefer to deport MAGA followers vs new immigrants.

And btw, immigrants are just as often conservative as they are liberal. Republicans stance on immigration may cause them to lose some votes among the newly immigrated but it's not because it's just a bunch of liberals crossing the border. Of course, those "illegal" immigrants don't get to vote if they're really illegal. Of course, people waiting on asylum requests aren't really here illegally (although don't get to vote either).

Where is the bolded written in the declaration or bill of rights? It's not.

Maybe socially conservative but they arent coming from democracies or republics. Illegals cant vote but their kids born here could.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

On top of that, with Trump bringing more working class manufacturing jobs back to the United States, won't we need more immigrants to fill jobs that don't interest our present day younger folks?

Let’s fix the labor force participation rate first. It’s lower than it was in the 90’s and we’ve had more than half a century now of women entering the workforce. Republicans have some new work requirements for Medicaid coming up in the tax bill, that’s moving things in the right direction.

Where is the bolded written in the declaration or bill of rights? It's not.

Maybe socially conservative but they arent coming from democracies or republics. Illegals cant vote but their kids born here could.

That damn Emma Lazarus poem will be the death of us. It was added to the Statue of Liberty in 1903. By 1923 immigration had been severely capped and stayed that way for another four decades. But that part conveniently gets left out.

 

[hoot1]

Illegal immigrants are a net drain. What they add to the tax base they take more from in assistance.

So your brilliant plan to fix demographics and the fiscal cliff is to add more net takers.

You never disappoint Hickory.

How about taking only immigrants who predictably will pay more into the system than they take out?

Have a neighbor who came here from Thailand six years ago at the age of 45 and has been a tax paying citizen for at least four years. Like a true American, all she does is complain about the taxes she pays working at Amazon.

Her favorite thing about her job is working overtime and getting extra overtime when working on holidays.

As to crime, she was a victim of a burglary, and she has been talking about getting a gun ever since.

She loves Trump.