Kansas (and college basketball) Spurned
- Thread starter iugradbamadad
- Start date
Oh, I think the NBA scouts will get to see him play plenty. He's not going to get as much exposure to American basketball fans as he would have by playing in college. On that much, I'll agree. But he'll be getting the kind of exposure he'll need for his draft stock no matter where he's playing.
Don't mistake you not seeing him much, if at all, on TV with NBA scouts not seeing him. They've been global for quite some time now.
If there's anything that guys like this will want to watch out for, it's not exposure....it's making sure they're playing against good competition with good coaching.
That probably depends on who you cheer for.
In the case of us Indiana fans, I sadly agree that it's less fun. And, I hate to say it, but I've generally given up hope that we'll ever consistently be among the nation's best again in my lifetime. And that's depressing.
But I'll bet that, lately, Virginia and Texas Tech fans have been having a ball compared to their experiences 20+ years ago.
But he still isn't going to be getting the training, coaching, or development like he would playing at Kentucky, Duke, or Kansas. Those overseas coaches/GM's don't care about developing him for the NBA, their job is to sell tickets. It'll be Hampton's job to come in as a professional and learn the system and play with other professionals. You also have to remember that someone like RJ Hampton re-classified from the class of 2020, he should be a senior in high school next year. A very big gamble going halfway across the world with no guidance or support system expecting to develop on your own for the NBA draft. I doubt going overseas pushes his draft position past the first round, but I think he'll be behind the learning curve in terms of development playing in the NBL vs playing against top flight D1 competition.
Well, I don't know much about Hampton's situation in particular.
But I will say that I suspect we'll see more of this kind of thing after OAD is officially gone. And, if it does, then necessity is the mother of invention. In other words, if larger numbers of the best talents are playing professionally somewhere for brief stints, then the coaching and all that will likely follow.
The international pro leagues may not be best suited right now for developing prospects. I'd say they're mostly geared towards guys who have already played out their eligibility at the collegiate level (or something similar) and haven't broken into the Show. Most of them, I'd guess, are hoping to be the next Dean Garrett....and at least earning a living while staying in the hunt.
But if more and more guys go overseas from HS, then I think those programs would naturally morph into something geared, at least in part, at developing the younger players who are destined for the NBA.
Again, I'm really talking about the Top 10-15 level recruits. The 5-stars who, if they went to college today, would almost certainly be OAD. I'm not thinking about the 2nd tier guys.
There's a better chance of the G-League developing into a true minor league system with better pay where the OAD guys will opt to go route. Simply put, these overseas leagues aren't going to invest the time and/or money into 17-19 year old kids to spend a year there until they're draft eligible. Brandon Jennings experience in Italy was horrible. Didn't get paid the money he was promised and only averaged 15 mpg. He was passed over by veterans of the team who were committed to the franchise for the long haul.
if he's good enough to go pro right out of high school, he should be allowed to.
OK, I could see that. But whether it's the G-League or an International league, the point is that college will be a less common choice for some of the elite players.
If I was one of those guys, and I (a) was pretty sure I was going to get my shot in the NBA, and (b) had no aspirations to earning a degree, then I really don't think I'd want to be distracted by all the academic and social aspects of college.
I couldn't disagree with you more on this point. There will still be NBA level talent on these NCAA rosters. Half the NBA draft and a majority of NBA rosters are made up of 2-4 year college players, most of whom didn't come from NCAA champions or blue bloods. The goal of any team, much less a great team, is to always be greater than the sum of it's individual parts. There have been some great college teams in modern history with star players whose talent didn't necessarily translate into NBA stardom.
Let's just say it is not the slam dunk difference you think. I think you will improve quicker working on your craft for 8 hours a day than you will 2 hours a day. I think you will improve quickly playing against grown men as opposed to college kids, and for the exposure, who cares?? Do you think the NBA scouts will not see every second he plays this year?
We have a bunch on here that complain about the one and done and kids be fake students, and so a kid who has no interest in going to class decides to go overseas and some have an issue with it.
[QUOTE="Nap Town Hoosier, post: 2688357, member: 63189" Brandon Jennings experience in Italy was horrible. Didn't get paid the money he was promised and only averaged 15 mpg. He was passed over by veterans of the team who were committed to the franchise for the long haul.[/QUOTE]
And he was the 10th overall pick, so what is your point? He went there to improve his game, get paid and not have to go to class.
And he was the 10th overall pick, so what is your point? He went there to improve his game, get paid and not have to go to class.
And he was the 10th overall pick, so what is your point? He went there to improve his game, get paid and not have to go to class.[/QUOTE]
That isn’t how I really interpreted the argument. I interpreted it as the pros/cons to skipping college and how it helps/harms potential long term success.
In my opinion, guys like Jennings, Mudiay, etc would have been drafted in the first round regardless if they went to college or overseas or worked at McDonald's for the year in-between draft eligibility. The NBA drafts on potential and those guys had it regardless of where they played. But if you look at those players long term, it begs to question if they weren’t better off playing D1 basketball for a year instead of taking a quick pay day which pales in comparison to future potential earning.
Both Jennings and Mudiay played well in their first couple of years, but look at them now? Jennings played for 5 teams in 10 years and is already out of the league. He isn’t yet 30. Now he’s amassed nearly $40mil in career earnings and set for life, but by today’s NBA standards, that’s relatively low for somebody who has a decade of service. Mudiay was passed over for guys like Gary Harris and Jamal Murray (who both went to college), and while Mudiay is still in league, his second contract only pays a couple million a year in a back up role. Compare that to Gary Harris who recently just signed a 4yr/$80mil contract, Harris next year alone will make more money in a single year than Mudiay’s career earnings.
Now is this solely based on their choice to forego college? I wouldn’t think so but it does leave you wondering just how beneficial it is playing on the NCAA’s platform, even if there’s 6 month period where you aren’t receiving any money.
Look at Zion Williamson. He could have very easily foregone college and played overseas and been paid handsomely. But would bet any amount of money he would be nowhere near as marketable as he’s about to be had he given up the opportunity to play on ESPN 30x a year to go play in Europe for a million dollars. Outside LeBron, Zion may arguably be the second most marketable basketball player in the world next year before he plays his first professional game. Why is that? Because the unlimited exposure he got at Duke. And not just exposure, but world class coaching in world class facilities. You think RJ Hampton electing to play for Chris Braswell over Calipari or Coach K in Auckland, NZ is putting himself in the best position? Never say never, but I doubt it. Time will tell though, but the data available shows that playing a year of NCAA basketball is more rewarding longtime than chasing a check out of high school.
Last edited:
That isn’t how I really interpreted the argument. I interpreted it as the pros/cons to skipping college and how it helps/harms potential long term success.
In my opinion, guys like Jennings, Mudiay, etc would have been drafted in the first round regardless if they went to college or overseas or worked at McDonald's for the year in-between draft eligibility. The NBA drafts on potential and those guys had it regardless of where they played. But if you look at those players long term, it begs to question if they weren’t better off playing D1 basketball for a year instead of taking a quick pay day which pales in comparison to future potential earning.
Both Jennings and Mudiay played well in their first couple of years, but look at them now? Jennings played for 5 teams in 10 years and is already out of the league. He isn’t yet 30. Now he’s amassed nearly $40mil in career earnings and set for life, but by today’s NBA standards, that’s relatively low for somebody who has a decade of service. Mudiay was passed over for guys like Gary Harris and Jamal Murray (who both went to college), and while Mudiay is still in league, his second contract only pays a couple million a year in a back up role. Compare that to Gary Harris who recently just signed a 4yr/$80mil contract, Harris next year alone will make more money in a single year than Mudiay’s career earnings.
Now is this solely based on their choice to forego college? I wouldn’t think so but it does leave you wondering just how beneficial it is playing on the NCAA’s platform, even if there’s 6 month period where you aren’t receiving any money.
Look at Zion Williamson. He could have very easily foregone college and played overseas and been paid handsomely. But would bet any amount of money he would be nowhere near as marketable as he’s about to be had he given up the opportunity to play on ESPN 30x a year to go play in Europe for a million dollars. Outside LeBron, Zion may arguably be the second most marketable basketball player in the world next year before he plays his first professional game. Why is that? Because the unlimited exposure he got at Duke. And not just exposure, but world class coaching in world class facilities. You think RJ Hampton electing to play for Chris Braswell over Calipari or Coach K in Auckland, NZ is putting himself in the best position? Never say never, but I doubt it. Time will tell though, but the data available shows that playing a year of NCAA basketball is more rewarding longtime than chasing a check out of high school.[/QUOTE]
The 2nd contract and or being out of the league has more to do with talent and productivity than where they played after HS. Also, Hampton was committed to Kansas, not UK or Duke, so the K/Cal argument does not matter.
The point is, if the kid and the family feel it is the right decision, is that not all that matters. Hampton has openly said he does not want to be bothered with classes, so I would think most on here would be happy with this decision, as it gets a kid out of college that does not want to be there. We rip kids for being fake students who only try to stay eligible for a semester then basically quit going to class but when a kid decides that he does no want to play that game and goes another route, we tell them it is a bad decision
College basketball will never be the greatest sport in the world until they clean up their act. Zion ending up at Duke, Miller at Arizona and his alleged cheating ways, and the rest of the blue blood cheaters. Fix it already.
Like like like like like like like like like like like like
Like like like like like like like like like like like like
Like like like like like like like like like like like like
Like like like like like like like like like like like like
Like like like like like like like like like like like like
I doubt that Indiana will produce a talent like Hampton in the near
future that can move a year up in grade and still maintain equal ranking.
In fairness Texas has almost five times the population as Indiana.
so obviously they will probably produce superior prep talent.
Not to drag on but Oscar Robertson (our best) moved to Indianapolis
from outside of Nashville TN at around age twelve. Indiana has the
bb fever but lacks the population which often awards overhyped
or unworthy Mr. Basketball people.
Last edited:
Perhaps “often” is an overstatement. How about “sometimes”. Population is not the only criterion. The culture itself is; for example Cuba produces a lot of excellent baseball players, yet the population is very small. Same with some other Latin American countries.
Could it possibly be because of finance and exploitation? I believe up
north the price is higher for equal talent. Have you seen any Andrew
Lucks or any Running backs from Cuba Guatemala or Dominica?
Often is the correct term! I remember numerous Mr. BB from the past that
received the award who went on to be flops later in college and the pros passed on them.
George McGinnis was our last Mr. BB that brought us fame. At least bring us dignity nationally. Don't make a mockery of the award or cancel it altogether to save some embarrassment.
Last edited:
There's a reason that the term "per capita" exists.
Of course highly populous states like Texas, New York, and California produce gobs of great athletes. That seems obvious on its face -- just as Alaska produces a lot less.
But, yeah, I think that Indiana has long produced a high number of great basketball players on a per capita basis.
"Per capita" does exist! But come on make it seem like we can
present someone on a national stage every five years instead of thirty.
Last edited:
Since 2000, 22 times has somebody from the state of Indiana been recognized as an All-American by the four outlets that recognize AA's (AP, USBWA, NABC, TSN). Screw per capita, find me a state in that time frame that has produced more.
Compare Indiana’s list of big-time players coming out of HS to any other state with ~6-7 million residents. I’m pretty sure we compare very favorably — and pretty consistently, too.
Indiana might even put out more top talent than Illinois, a state with almost twice our population.
I don't like the one and done situation but on the other hand, I don't believe that the High School Players who take the Overseas Route have enough life experience to effectively handle their situation, and may be manipulated by family members and hangers on to make a poor decision.
With that in mind, let's take this to a different situation. If a Student enters IU Business School and is so good that by the end of his Freshman or Sophomore Year he has six figure offers to take a job with several national companies and he leaves, do we care. Of course not, because we aren't paying for the price of a ticket to watch him in class or completing his classwork, and the business school hasn't made him the face of their Market Brand. Would the same opportunity be there if he stayed in School until he obtained a Degree? Maybe, Maybe Not. But I do know that This individual is more likely to find a way to obtain a Degree than the OAD who washes out in 3 years.
With that in mind, let's take this to a different situation. If a Student enters IU Business School and is so good that by the end of his Freshman or Sophomore Year he has six figure offers to take a job with several national companies and he leaves, do we care. Of course not, because we aren't paying for the price of a ticket to watch him in class or completing his classwork, and the business school hasn't made him the face of their Market Brand. Would the same opportunity be there if he stayed in School until he obtained a Degree? Maybe, Maybe Not. But I do know that This individual is more likely to find a way to obtain a Degree than the OAD who washes out in 3 years.
It wouldn’t be a six figure job. It would be like Google offering a kid $4 million PER YEAR to come work for them after their freshman year. And they would give you a personal, ultra successful mentor that could teach you more than Accounting 201.
What would we tell that kid if he or she turned that opportunity down?
And on top of that you were to be forced into early retirement when you turn 35. Would you not want to maximize your earnings? The only difference between that and players leaving for the NBA is selfish fans who have their own interests that aren’t aligned with that of the kids.
Last edited:
As long as paying for an NBA game ticket doesn't include the babysitting fees that it does now, I have no problem with them removing the pesky one year stumbling block. But I'd rather see college basketball force their hand by changing the recruiting standards to penalize early departures.
one could argue that living overseas for a year would give you more life experience while giving some breathing room from family and hangers
I see the fast path to the NBA in the future will not include playing for any traditional scholastic Sports Team, High School or College team. The new path might be , Elite AAU, Elite Shoe Gauntlet league, National Prep High School, declare for NBA Draft.
