Jackson Davis

[Ty Webb iu]

Re read my OP...

I worded it badly, making it sound like I think TJD is a bad athlete. He isn't. And I know he's been injured. Just not sure you're as "up to speed" as you think you are on how athletic the NBA has become, and is becoming more so every year. There are dozens of Kai Jones/Greg Brown type players on NBA benches that are as good or better athletes than TJD. Literally every single game he plays in next year, he'll be facing at least a couple equal or better athletes.

I'll repeat it, since I'm sure you won't go back and read it... He's going to have to find a shot, and or some form of dynamic playmaking to get a "big" 2nd contract. As is, he's likely good enough to be a solid bounce around the league, depth guy.

This IS NOT a knock on Trayce. I'm beyond excited, and proud, to see him on the Warriors this year. It was an acknowledgment that its going to look a lot different than watching him at IU.

I fully understood your 1st post, no need to repeat it here.

You probably watched the highlights from his 1st game, thought he looked less athletic than you expected and attributed that to playing with better athletes than in college. You were wrong. He was injured and is out of shape. He looked similar athletically in this game as he did when he was injured at IU.

I'm not disagreeing with you because I think you are knocking TJD. I'm disagreeing with you because you are wrong in assessing he will be an average athlete for a big in the NBA. He will be WAY above average athletically, especially when compared to centers, which will be his position in the NBA.

Think Bam Adebayo. That's who TJD can be in the NBA if all goes right. Same height and weight. TJD is a better athlete than Bam, but Bam is a willing shooter from 15 ft in (mostly 10 ft in). TJD can get there, imo. His elite athleticism will help him get there.

 

[IUNorth]

I fully understood your 1st post, no need to repeat it here.

You probably watched the highlights from his 1st game, thought he looked less athletic than you expected and attributed that to playing with better athletes than in college. You were wrong. He was injured and is out of shape. He looked similar athletically in this game as he did when he was injured at IU.

I'm not disagreeing with you because I think you are knocking TJD. I'm disagreeing with you because you are wrong in assessing he will be an average athlete for a big in the NBA. He will be WAY above average athletically, especially when compared to centers, which will be his position in the NBA.

Think Bam Adebayo. That's who TJD can be in the NBA if all goes right. Same height and weight. TJD is a better athlete than Bam, but Bam is a willing shooter from 15 ft in (mostly 10 ft in). TJD can get there, imo. His elite athleticism will help him get there.

If you fully understood my first post, why did you mention me worrying about him getting a 2nd contract? I've never mentioned that...he's a good enough athlete, as a big, to stick in the league for a while.

He didn't look, at all, like he did for those couple weeks this past year. He had multiple explosive plays in his 2 Summer League games. Never in those college games could he explode and dunk the ball like he did in these two games. A sore hamstring, is in no way, shape, or form a similar injury to a bad back. One doesn't look similar when they have them.

He looked like he hadn't been able to do a ton of cardio in the last few weeks, that he had gained about 5 pounds of "bad weight" because of it...and he looked a little slower than he did at IU because of the hamstring.

Again...he's an elite athlete. The NBA is full of them. TJD won't stand out much in that regard. But the fact that he belongs among them, is spectacular.

He and Bam are similar athletes I'd say. There are a lot similar, and a good amount better. Obviously some not as good. But we just got used to basically never seeing him face anyone on par with him, as a big, athletically. That won't be the case any more. Every single game he plays in he'll face similar at least, better in a lot of games, athletes.

 

[hookyIU1990]

why did you mention me worrying about him getting a 2nd contract? I've never mentioned that..

You absolutely mentioned his 2nd contract.

To get that 15-20 mil a year type contract in a few years, he’s gonna need a shot or some dynamic play making.

 

[IUNorth]

You absolutely mentioned his 2nd contract.

Yeah...to get that much per year, he's going to need to develop something other than what he currently has.

 

[IUNorth]

I fully understood your 1st post, no need to repeat it here.

You probably watched the highlights from his 1st game, thought he looked less athletic than you expected and attributed that to playing with better athletes than in college. You were wrong. He was injured and is out of shape. He looked similar athletically in this game as he did when he was injured at IU.

I'm not disagreeing with you because I think you are knocking TJD. I'm disagreeing with you because you are wrong in assessing he will be an average athlete for a big in the NBA. He will be WAY above average athletically, especially when compared to centers, which will be his position in the NBA.

Think Bam Adebayo. That's who TJD can be in the NBA if all goes right. Same height and weight. TJD is a better athlete than Bam, but Bam is a willing shooter from 15 ft in (mostly 10 ft in). TJD can get there, imo. His elite athleticism will help him get there.

First two teams I looked at...just in the Eastern Conference...

Robert Williams
Darius Blazely
Nic Claxton
Noah Clowney
Ben Simmons
even Blake Griffin could be par with TJD athletically at his advanced age.

That's 2 teams, 6 players that are par, or better athletically. I bet there are close to 60 overall.

 

[GR8IUFAN]

well, it sounds like the Warriors think he'll stick around for at least 2 years!

Just heard an interview that said GS began looking to trade up to the 30's and 40's to get him.
They had him in their top 35.
Sounds to me like they really wanted him and backed it up with the 4 year contract.
Very few drafted in the 50's get that kind of deal.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

If you fully understood my first post, why did you mention me worrying about him getting a 2nd contract? I've never mentioned that...he's a good enough athlete, as a big, to stick in the league for a while.

He didn't look, at all, like he did for those couple weeks this past year. He had multiple explosive plays in his 2 Summer League games. Never in those college games could he explode and dunk the ball like he did in these two games. A sore hamstring, is in no way, shape, or form a similar injury to a bad back. One doesn't look similar when they have them.

He looked like he hadn't been able to do a ton of cardio in the last few weeks, that he had gained about 5 pounds of "bad weight" because of it...and he looked a little slower than he did at IU because of the hamstring.

Again...he's an elite athlete. The NBA is full of them. TJD won't stand out much in that regard. But the fact that he belongs among them, is spectacular.
more
He and Bam are similar athletes I'd say. There are a lot similar, and a good amount better. Obviously some not as good. But we just got used to basically never seeing him face anyone on par with him, as a big, athletically. That won't be the case any more. Every single game he plays in he'll face similar at least, better in a lot of games, athletes.

So now you are claiming you made a Captain Obvious post? You claim you said he will face better athletes in the NBA than in college? Come on. I have more respect for you than to believe that.

Everybody makes mistakes.

 

[IUNorth]

So now you are claiming you made a Captain Obvious post? You claim you said he will face better athletes in the NBA than in college? Come on. I have more respect for you than to believe that.

Everybody makes mistakes.

Not sure I’ve changed my opinion since the first post I made? But ok?

Relative to NBA basketball players, I do think he’s “average” in terms of overall athleticism. His leaping is above average, especially for his size. But any other measurable, I can think of, to measure basketball applicable athleticism…he’s average.

But again…that’s like being an average Olympic athlete.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Not sure I’ve changed my opinion since the first post I made? But ok?

Relative to NBA basketball players, I do think he’s “average” in terms of overall athleticism. His leaping is above average, especially for his size. But any other measurable, I can think of, to measure basketball applicable athleticism…he’s average.

But again…that’s like being an average Olympic athlete.

Robert Williams is an example you gave, he is bigger, longer and more athletic than Tjd, someone mentioned Bam Adebayo TJD is not on his level. he's not as big and is not nearly as skilled. I think it was Texas we played in a pre-season tournament. TJDs soph year, they had NBA level bigs they basically dominated him. for him to carve out a 10 year NBA career he is going to have to develop an offensive game a career like Codys might be his ceiling.

 

[Lucy01]

Robert Williams is an example you gave, he is bigger, longer and more athletic than Tjd, someone mentioned Bam Adebayo TJD is not on his level. he's not as big and is not nearly as skilled. I think it was Texas we played in a pre-season tournament. TJDs soph year, they had NBA level bigs they basically dominated him. for him to carve out a 10 year NBA career he is going to have to develop an offensive game a career like Codys might be his ceiling.

You’re sic

 

[IUNorth]

Robert Williams is an example you gave, he is bigger, longer and more athletic than Tjd, someone mentioned Bam Adebayo TJD is not on his level. he's not as big and is not nearly as skilled. I think it was Texas we played in a pre-season tournament. TJDs soph year, they had NBA level bigs they basically dominated him. for him to carve out a 10 year NBA career he is going to have to develop an offensive game a career like Codys might be his ceiling.

There are 2 former Texas bigs that are perfect examples of what I'm talking about...Kai Jones and Greg Brown. Both are better overall athletes than TJD. Neither are as good of players, overall, I don't think. But even that could be the fact that I saw TJD as an upperclassman in college, dominating lesser athletes. If either of those 2 guys had played 4 years at Texas...the perception could be different. And there are A LOT of "Kai Jones's" on NBA rosters.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

There are 2 former Texas bigs that are perfect examples of what I'm talking about...Kai Jones and Greg Brown. Both are better overall athletes than TJD. Neither are as good of players, overall, I don't think. But even that could be the fact that I saw TJD as an upperclassman in college, dominating lesser athletes. If either of those 2 guys had played 4 years at Texas...the perception could be different. And there are A LOT of "Kai Jones's" on NBA rosters.

Most Indiana fans. have no concept of the difference between college and the NBA game. I think the kid I'm thinking of from Texas was Jericho Sims, who is basically a journeyman NBA player. he is a far superior athlete to TJD . Kofi Cockburn averaged 20 at Illinois he played in the Japanese B league last year.

 

[Ty Webb iu]

First two teams I looked at...just in the Eastern Conference...

Robert Williams
Darius Blazely
Nic Claxton
Noah Clowney
Ben Simmons
even Blake Griffin could be par with TJD athletically at his advanced age.

That's 2 teams, 6 players that are par, or better athletically. I bet there are close to 60 overall.

"even Blake Griffin could be par with TJD athletically at his advanced age."

That's absolutely hilarious, and ridiculous. Blake can barely move out there anymore. You haven't watched the NBA in years, have you?

 

[kkott]

There are 2 former Texas bigs that are perfect examples of what I'm talking about...Kai Jones and Greg Brown. Both are better overall athletes than TJD. Neither are as good of players, overall, I don't think. But even that could be the fact that I saw TJD as an upperclassman in college, dominating lesser athletes. If either of those 2 guys had played 4 years at Texas...the perception could be different. And there are A LOT of "Kai Jones's" on NBA rosters.

Yeah, it's honestly hard to pinpoint how Trayce was so effective in college, especially with such a limited offensive game... but he was. I would agree: he's a "good" athlete for an NBA big. I don't think he's quite as physical or aggressive as Bam, but few are. A more cerebral guy who does more stuff well, I would say. GS obviously thinks he has something to give and work with and it's a great spot for him.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Yeah, it's honestly hard to pinpoint how Trayce was so effective in college, especially with such a limited offensive game... but he was. I would agree: he's a "good" athlete for an NBA big. I don't think he's quite as physical or aggressive as Bam, but few are. A more cerebral guy who does more stuff well, I would say. GS obviously thinks he has something to give and work with and it's a great spot for him.

agree, time will tell. if you would have told me watching Draymond Green at MSU that he would turn out like he has I would have called you crazy. overall, the NBA miss some, but they are pretty damn good. Bufkin and Howards son from Mich will be interesting to watch the next couple of years. neither one of them impressed me at all

 

[.Gerdis]

agree, time will tell. if you would have told me watching Draymond Green at MSU that he would turn out like he has I would have called you crazy. overall, the NBA miss some, but they are pretty damn good. Bufkin and Howards son from Mich will be interesting to watch the next couple of years. neither one of them impressed me at all

Agreed on the MI kids. Watching that draft I couldn’t help but wonder how MI fared so poorly in the b10 with them and Dick-S, but it does lead to an interesting question:

What role did Howard have in getting them drafted? If I’m a recruit and I’m looking at
A) having a coach that will likely put me in a position to win the B10
B) get me to the league

Well, that likely could be two very different coaches (need I say the difference between Painter and Howard as far as A and B go).

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Agreed on the MI kids. Watching that draft I couldn’t help but wonder how MI fared so poorly in the b10 with them and Dick-S, but it does lead to an interesting question:

What role did Howard have in getting them drafted? If I’m a recruit and I’m looking at
A) having a coach that will likely put me in a position to win the B10
B) get me to the league

Well, that likely could be two very different coaches (need I say the difference between Painter and Howard as far as A and B go).

Painter is a damn good coach; the last 3 tournaments are hard to reconcile that statement, but he seems to do more with less. 95 percent of NBA players are born very few imo make it there because of their college coach. Cal probably has 40 guys in the league right now. the vast majority of them would still be in the NBA if they never stepped foot in Lexington.

 

[OneWayStreet]

There are exceptions, but for the most part winners and losers are picked in the GM's office. I hear players talk about this all the time. It certainly seems that the GSW's management is very high on TJD. While I don't think he's that skilled overall, he does have some very rare intangibles that no doubt intrigue the front office.

 

[kkott]

A) having a coach that will likely put me in a position to win the B10
B) get me to the league

Agree completely on B, and that is what most every top 100 recruit is thinking about imo. A? I don't even think it rates much. Again, those kids, if they're concerned about team accomplishments at all, are thinking about the NCAA tourney. Not sure I've ever heard a recruit talk about being at the top of their conference.

 

[IUNorth]

Agree completely on B, and that is what most every top 100 recruit is thinking about imo. A? I don't even think it rates much. Again, those kids, if they're concerned about team accomplishments at all, are thinking about the NCAA tourney. Not sure I've ever heard a recruit talk about being at the top of their conference.

Everyone wants to win. But I agree, I wouldn't think really any recruits top 100 or not, look at winning as specific as conference level success. Playing in March Madness is probably the only specific thing recruits would have on their mind...and even there, I think their mindset or questions on "winning" would be more...are they a winning program, is the game atmosphere fun, will they play in big games on national TV, etc...

MUCH, MUCH more important these days, to most top 50-100 level kids, I think its fairly safe to assume, would be (in no particular order)...

-Path/Prep for NBA
-NIL
-Playing time
-Offensive/defensive style fit

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Everyone wants to win. But I agree, I wouldn't think really any recruits top 100 or not, look at winning as specific as conference level success. Playing in March Madness is probably the only specific thing recruits would have on their mind...and even there, I think their mindset or questions on "winning" would be more...are they a winning program, is the game atmosphere fun, will they play in big games on national TV, etc...

MUCH, MUCH more important these days, to most top 50-100 level kids, I think its fairly safe to assume, would be (in no particular order)...

-Path/Prep for NBA
-NIL
-Playing time
-Offensive/defensive style fit

where does education come in? probably a couple of notches below, the co-ed and party scene?

 

[.Gerdis]

Everyone wants to win. But I agree, I wouldn't think really any recruits top 100 or not, look at winning as specific as conference level success. Playing in March Madness is probably the only specific thing recruits would have on their mind...and even there, I think their mindset or questions on "winning" would be more...are they a winning program, is the game atmosphere fun, will they play in big games on national TV, etc...

MUCH, MUCH more important these days, to most top 50-100 level kids, I think its fairly safe to assume, would be (in no particular order)...

-Path/Prep for NBA
-NIL
-Playing time
-Offensive/defensive style fit

While I agree, seeding is largely dependent on winning whatever conference you are in. We can (and will) make fun of the Boilers for tanking in the tourney, but IMHO you need to give yourself the best chance year in and year out, and that is a high seed. You can’t control luck (in the tourney) , matchups, the draw, etc.

Take KU, for example:
1988 title
Next one?
2008

Now, I’m pretty sure in those roughly 20 years they were probably a 1 or 2 seed almost every season. I’m guessing they won their league at least 15 times. That is being elite, and giving yourself a chance every year.

Too often fans put on their Sith personalities and draw a line in the sand: for example, “anything short of a final four is failure”.

I guess my point being, if winning IS important, then your first goal should always be to win your conference. Putting yourself in a position to be in position, as Coach would say.

Edit: and nothing above discounts the fact that if kids are picking a school, and they want to win, certain programs give them a higher chance.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

While I agree, seeding is largely dependent on winning whatever conference you are in. We can (and will) make fun of the Boilers for tanking in the tourney, but IMHO you need to give yourself the best chance year in and year out, and that is a high seed. You can’t control luck (in the tourney) , matchups, the draw, etc.

Take KU, for example:
1988 title
Next one?
2008

Now, I’m pretty sure in those roughly 20 years they were probably a 1 or 2 seed almost every season. I’m guessing they won their league at least 15 times. That is being elite, and giving yourself a chance every year.

Too often fans put on their Sith personalities and draw a line in the sand: for example, “anything short of a final four is failure”.

I guess my point being, if winning IS important, then your first goal should always be to win your conference. Putting yourself in a position to be in position, as Coach would say.

Edit: and nothing above discounts the fact that if kids are picking a school, and they want to win, certain programs give them a higher chance.

I think Kansas won or bought the big 12 about 15 years in a row

 

[IUNorth]

While I agree, seeding is largely dependent on winning whatever conference you are in. We can (and will) make fun of the Boilers for tanking in the tourney, but IMHO you need to give yourself the best chance year in and year out, and that is a high seed. You can’t control luck (in the tourney) , matchups, the draw, etc.

Take KU, for example:
1988 title
Next one?
2008

Now, I’m pretty sure in those roughly 20 years they were probably a 1 or 2 seed almost every season. I’m guessing they won their league at least 15 times. That is being elite, and giving yourself a chance every year.

Too often fans put on their Sith personalities and draw a line in the sand: for example, “anything short of a final four is failure”.

I guess my point being, if winning IS important, then your first goal should always be to win your conference. Putting yourself in a position to be in position, as Coach would say.

Edit: and nothing above discounts the fact that if kids are picking a school, and they want to win, certain programs give them a higher chance.

Agree on all this...as far as coaches and fans goals and thoughts. Just don't think recruits think about it all that much.

I think the MOST successful coaches probably don't use even conference championships with their players, as motivation.

Nick Saban obviously expects Alabama to be in the SEC title game every year. But with his players, he's been able to instill a much, much more daily, granular approach. Did you do your rep correctly? Did you win your matchup in this drill? Did you improve at your job, today? Jay Wright does that too. Geno Auriema. Belichik. The best ones are able to instill that level of focus on daily habits and work...the rest takes care of itself.