IU golf course
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i find the "all or nothing" thing a little strange, but i'll assume that's being a little dramatic, and they plan to get it done.
since they have a number in mind, i'll presume they already have the plans on what they are going to do.
would love some detail on what all they plan.
wonder if they have another spot picked out for a range.
as for the new club house, surely they'll build it approx where the original one was, as like i said before, no longer a reason to have it where it now is anymore.
the original site makes it walkable again, plus having it where so many holes start and end in that one general spot is very cool.
they definitely need to do the 13th at Augusta thing with now 9, (originally 8) green, with the high back traps behind/beside the green, and if you're going to have 1 water feature, in front of that green is the place.
that's definitely where you make your signature hole.
would hit me really hard to see that course go away, just way too much potential that pretty much can't be duplicated elsewhere.
since they have a number in mind, i'll presume they already have the plans on what they are going to do.
would love some detail on what all they plan.
wonder if they have another spot picked out for a range.
as for the new club house, surely they'll build it approx where the original one was, as like i said before, no longer a reason to have it where it now is anymore.
the original site makes it walkable again, plus having it where so many holes start and end in that one general spot is very cool.
they definitely need to do the 13th at Augusta thing with now 9, (originally 8) green, with the high back traps behind/beside the green, and if you're going to have 1 water feature, in front of that green is the place.
that's definitely where you make your signature hole.
would hit me really hard to see that course go away, just way too much potential that pretty much can't be duplicated elsewhere.
Was glad to see that a renovation of the golf course is part of the facility master plan and that they are planning to adequately fund it. Prior to the IU Health move, Inthought that the university would be well-served to build a new hotel and conference center on the driving range site, along with a renovation of the course to create a destination "resort" in town, such as at Duke, but it's not to be.
The course has good "bones", a nice piece of land and a decent layout, with some additional room throughout. New drainage/irrigation, new grass, rebuilt greens, tree removal, and additional bunkering are the biggest needs. My guess is that Tim Liddy, if he's still around, will do the work, as he designed the golf teams' practice facility. Previously, Liddy's website listed the IU Golf Course renovation as a project for his firm. I'd love to see someone like Tom Doak or Coore/Crenshaw get the project, as they would build a nice, low-profile redesign. I love C&C's work at the Warren Course at ND and Doak has done a number of great courses and has done university work at Texas Tech.
A renovated course can certainly provide opportunities to the school to field high-level teams (Illinois has been a championship level program for a while), as well as driving increased play during football weekends, summer, etc. College tournaments and state amateur and professional events can also bring more people and money into town during the summer months, as well.
Overall, this is exciting news for IU and Bloomington.
The course has good "bones", a nice piece of land and a decent layout, with some additional room throughout. New drainage/irrigation, new grass, rebuilt greens, tree removal, and additional bunkering are the biggest needs. My guess is that Tim Liddy, if he's still around, will do the work, as he designed the golf teams' practice facility. Previously, Liddy's website listed the IU Golf Course renovation as a project for his firm. I'd love to see someone like Tom Doak or Coore/Crenshaw get the project, as they would build a nice, low-profile redesign. I love C&C's work at the Warren Course at ND and Doak has done a number of great courses and has done university work at Texas Tech.
A renovated course can certainly provide opportunities to the school to field high-level teams (Illinois has been a championship level program for a while), as well as driving increased play during football weekends, summer, etc. College tournaments and state amateur and professional events can also bring more people and money into town during the summer months, as well.
Overall, this is exciting news for IU and Bloomington.
Tim Libby did Rolling Meadows in Gosport, of which i really like the front 9, (which has a much better piece of land than the back).
he also was the one who remodeled Coffin in Indy, and i can't stand what he did to that course.
while it's now all bent grass i think, and the greens are much bigger, it's not nearly as nice a layout now as the original design.
he took a great layout that needed new greens, tee boxes, irrigation, premium grass, some drainage control (which i still don't think has been accomplished do to the river), and tried to make it his own, rather than just fixing what was there. (which again, imo, was a much better layout than what it is now.
if you want a newer type course from scratch, i think he can do a good job.
but he has his formula, which imo is not what the IU course needs, and i'm afraid he'd ruin it trying to make it "his" course, rather than renovating and tweaking what's there.
old school courses just have a much different feel than modern designs, and not sure the guys whose formula is more modern, can really do old school. it just doesn't fit their "formula" and what they know best.
the greens, the fairways, the traps, all are very different with old school vs new school.
new school formula courses are everywhere now, literally, and a lot of them are really nice. (if that's what you're into).
that said, would really hate to see someone make IU new school feel because that's what they know, rather than keeping the old school feel and design.
really nice old school courses on great pieces of land are very very rare, and real treasures.
and none are being built anymore, so there won't be any more come along.
i don't know who the guys out there that do old school well are now, but that's who IU needs.
and while IU isn't that old, relatively speaking, it has the feel and design of older courses.
an interesting note imo, the guy who designed IU was 1st generation Scotsman who grew up in Scotland playing there.
yet he didn't take that piece of land and try to apply "links" concepts to it.
no, he saw that piece of land for what it was, and modeled his design for the piece of land he had to work with. (a more Augusta National type feel).
not many courses can have that feel. would hate to lose one that can.
My preference would be for whoever is tapped for the renovation to come in and make it the best course possible, whether that entails keeping the same feel and aesthetic or making it their own. Liddy did a nice job in the renovation of Sultan's Run in Jasper, and he really changed the look without ruining a great piece of property. He was also deeply involved with Pete Dye in renovating The Fort. I wouldn't mind the renovation at IU reflecting the look, feel, and challenge of those courses.
The biggest thing will be modernization of the drainage/irrigation, re-grassing, and tree removal. Just doing those things alone would make a world of difference, even if nothing else were changed.
Being in Indiana, I'd be surprised if Dye, Liddy, or Kern don't get the job. With said said, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fuzzy brought in for the work. He's a booster and would probably do it for free. Maybe we could get Dye for the Purdue discount...
The biggest thing will be modernization of the drainage/irrigation, re-grassing, and tree removal. Just doing those things alone would make a world of difference, even if nothing else were changed.
Being in Indiana, I'd be surprised if Dye, Liddy, or Kern don't get the job. With said said, I wouldn't be shocked to see Fuzzy brought in for the work. He's a booster and would probably do it for free. Maybe we could get Dye for the Purdue discount...
I think the Fort is a great comparison...and likely you'll see something along those lines. Which would be awesome.
Liddy knows what he's doing. I'd pass on Fuzzy.
I'd pass on Fuzzy too. His courses are fun and playable, but not particularly distinctive or challenging. But, you know how this works. If a big booster comes in and wants to do the work, are you going to turn him down and potentially insult him?
If the IU Golf Course ends up anything like The Fort, I'd be ecstatic. Challenging, playable, looks great, and takes advantage of the property. Liddy has done great work on his own and with Dye. Rock Hollow is a solo design of his that could also be an interesting comp, without the quarry.
If the IU Golf Course ends up anything like The Fort, I'd be ecstatic. Challenging, playable, looks great, and takes advantage of the property. Liddy has done great work on his own and with Dye. Rock Hollow is a solo design of his that could also be an interesting comp, without the quarry.
i've played The Fort a few times, and there is absolutely nothing impressive about it imo. (albeit, not a great piece of land to work with).
was very disappointed with it, after hearing what a great course it was when i was younger. (pre renovation).
that said, i never played it pre renovation, so i can't make a 1st person before and after comparison. but it's sure nothing special now. (but i definitely can make a 1st person before/after comparison with Coffin, and it's not positive.).
i have though talked to several who did play The Fort before and after, (all good players, one an ex IU golfer), who all told me they liked it much better pre renovation.
yes, due to connections, wouldn't be surprised if Dye or Liddy or Fuzzy was involved. (no idea what FZ's concepts are).
just saying, after seeing what Dye's and Liddy's concepts are, i don't think they are a good fit for IU, and would lose the old school character of the course. (don't think they could stop themselves if they wanted to).
and after seeing what they did to that piece of land in French Lick, i can only wonder, WTF were they thinking.
the Dye formula guys want to apply their "formula" everywhere, because it's what they know, what they do, and artistically who they are.
Jackson Pollock is absolutely brillant, but i wouldn't bring him in if what i'm going for is Michelangelo.
no offense, i think the Dye formula definitely has it's place, especially when dealing with a flat non wooded piece of land that needs some bling built into it, (contouring, water, mounds, lots of sand, etc), so it doesn't still look like a plain flat piece of land after the fact.
but like i said above, Augusta National is far and away the most desired course in the country, and unfortunately, there are very very few courses anywhere that could capture anything like that feel.
but IU is one of the very very few that actually could, and it would be criminal not to seize that potential to it's fullest.
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I always thought you were an idiot, now you've confirmed it. The Fort is a great track on a great piece of land. Consistently ranked by golf digest as the top 5-10 public courses in the state., The old course was a piece of shit. Worse than shit that is the current IU course.
Please just STFU. Nobody wants to hear gibberish. You don't know jack shit about anything whatsoever. It's like asking Tom Crean for advice on beating a zone defense.
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I hear what you are saying about the "Augustaesque" qualities that the IU Golf Course potentially possesses, as there are some similarities in the land. That said, I really would prefer that the architect didn't create a copy of Augusta, inferior to the real thing. Check out Tiger's new course in Texas, Bluejack National. It looks like one of those cheesy courses that replicates famous holes. Total ripoff of the unique look and feel of Augusta.
I think that Dye or Liddy will get the job, but I would still prefer that it go to Doak or Coore & Crenshaw. Love what they do and would certainly be unique in that part of the state, particularly due to the incredible number of Dye/Liddy courses in Indiana.
I think that Dye or Liddy will get the job, but I would still prefer that it go to Doak or Coore & Crenshaw. Love what they do and would certainly be unique in that part of the state, particularly due to the incredible number of Dye/Liddy courses in Indiana.
not familiar with Crenshaw's work, but i'm guessing a good chance he'd see what i see in IU.
and sorry, but not taking full advantage of the, as i pointed out numerous times and you termed, "Augustaesque", nature of the IU course, would be flat out fool hardy imho.
Agree that you need to take advantage of what you have, particularly with a renovation. That's why I would like to see what one of the designers I mentioned could do. Picking the correct architect is paramount. If someone is going to come in and blow the whole thing up, you are better off selling the land and building something new elsewhere.
Regardless, I am happy just to be having this conversation and knowing that improvements are coming that I have been waiting on for a long while.
Regardless, I am happy just to be having this conversation and knowing that improvements are coming that I have been waiting on for a long while.
Doak is excellent. I've looked at a few of his courses in Michigan, and those courses have some of the same topography as IU.
A Doak design at IU would likely bring a decent amount of golf travel traffic to Bloomington, particularly in the spring, summer, and fall. Many of his courses are destinations for architecture aficionados and he has a loyal following for his courses. Would be a home run.
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