If power corrupts, does fame warp?

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Here's a woman who was born into, and lived in, fame her entire life. She's been wealthy her entire life, but had a hell of an upbringing and personal life: parents divorce at 4, dad dies at 9; married and divorced 4 times (two of those were pretty "out there" men in Michael Jackson and Nick Cage); had 4 children with two of those, and her son committed suicide at 27.

In reading this piece, I felt incredibly sad for her:

Lisa Marie Presley, Singer and the Only Child of Elvis, Dead at 54

Lisa Marie Presley, the singer whose blues-tinged voice carried across three albums, died on Thursday at the age of 54.

www.rollingstone.com

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

 

[VanPastorMan]

Here's a woman who was born into, and lived in, fame her entire life. She's been wealthy her entire life, but had a hell of an upbringing and personal life: parents divorce at 4, dad dies at 9; married and divorced 4 times (two of those were pretty "out there" men in Michael Jackson and Nick Cage); had 4 children with two of those, and her son committed suicide at 27.

In reading this piece, I felt incredibly sad for her:

Lisa Marie Presley, Singer and the Only Child of Elvis, Dead at 54

Lisa Marie Presley, the singer whose blues-tinged voice carried across three albums, died on Thursday at the age of 54.

www.rollingstone.com

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

She died from cardiac arrest which is tragic because of her age. But this happens to a lot of people. They call it the widow maker because it is usually men. Now being married 4 times could be because she is rich. One of my jokes is that my wife could not divorce me because if she does then I will be out of the ministry and have no other skills to make a decent living. So I really got her where I want her because she would not being doing as well if she left me. LoL Lisa Marie can divorce easily because she has money. I suppose a lot of rich people think this way. Look at Tom and Giselle. They got divorced not because one cheated or there was no physical violence. They just wanted to call it quits even though they have children. Both are rich and don't really need each other in fiscal ways. I don't know the details of her (lisa marie's) son's suicide. I have had to deal with parents who had a child who did it and they were not rich.

 

[outside shooter]

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

It's not easy. One example of a child who seems rather grounded, level-headed and dependent on his own capabilities rather than riding on a family name is Anderson Cooper, son of Gloria Vanderbilt.

 

[larsIU]

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

Nope. Especially if that fame and scrutiny are done under age 20. Imagine not being able to grow up in private.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Here's a woman who was born into, and lived in, fame her entire life. She's been wealthy her entire life, but had a hell of an upbringing and personal life: parents divorce at 4, dad dies at 9; married and divorced 4 times (two of those were pretty "out there" men in Michael Jackson and Nick Cage); had 4 children with two of those, and her son committed suicide at 27.

In reading this piece, I felt incredibly sad for her:

Lisa Marie Presley, Singer and the Only Child of Elvis, Dead at 54

Lisa Marie Presley, the singer whose blues-tinged voice carried across three albums, died on Thursday at the age of 54.

www.rollingstone.com

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

Fame and money does terrible things to kids. Especially those poor kids used by their parents so the parents never have to work again.

But I think if parents work at it, they can keep the kids well grounded. I saw an interview with Jenna Ortega (Wednesday) saying that her family has zero interest in what she does. No matter what star she met, or what director she worked with, her family was, "that's nice, you forgot to do the dishes last night so you are grounded".
I don't know what Lisa Marie went through, so it is hard to know what role her fame played. My guess is she had a lot of people using her for her name. Anyone surrounded only by sycophants is going to have issues, but especially if that happens at a young age.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Fame and money does terrible things to kids. Especially those poor kids used by their parents so the parents never have to work again.

But I think if parents work at it, they can keep the kids well grounded. I saw an interview with Jenna Ortega (Wednesday) saying that her family has zero interest in what she does. No matter what star she met, or what director she worked with, her family was, "that's nice, you forgot to do the dishes last night so you are grounded".
I don't know what Lisa Marie went through, so it is hard to know what role her fame played. My guess is she had a lot of people using her for her name. Anyone surrounded only by sycophants is going to have issues, but especially if that happens at a young age.

Yeah, I’m assuming a lot about her just in reading that piece. I’ve never seen an interview with her. I just assume if you marry Nic Cage and Michael Jackson and then late in life start making records to trade on your famous father, you must be chasing fame. Again, I feel bad for all the trauma she had to endure.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Fame and money does terrible things to kids. Especially those poor kids used by their parents so the parents never have to work again.

But I think if parents work at it, they can keep the kids well grounded. I saw an interview with Jenna Ortega (Wednesday) saying that her family has zero interest in what she does. No matter what star she met, or what director she worked with, her family was, "that's nice, you forgot to do the dishes last night so you are grounded".
I don't know what Lisa Marie went through, so it is hard to know what role her fame played. My guess is she had a lot of people using her for her name. Anyone surrounded only by sycophants is going to have issues, but especially if that happens at a young age.

Can’t let the kids get at the money until they are 30. And make it conditional

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Can’t let the kids get at the money until they are 30. And make it conditional

Some of it isn't the kids, Wil Wheaton had a terrible relationship with his father. His father loved Wil's brother and did things with him all the time, Wil was expected to go off and work and make money so the father had more time to spend with the brother.

It's stage parents that are a big problem.

In Presley's case, I have no idea what was expected of her. I can't imagine Priscilla needed her to make money for them. But I also think being raised with unlimited money and no expectations can lead to problems. It seems people with that have a shallowness over them that prevents them from feeling fulfilled as their only interest is the shiny new toy. Again, I don't know if that is what happened to her.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Some of it isn't the kids, Wil Wheaton had a terrible relationship with his father. His father loved Wil's brother and did things with him all the time, Wil was expected to go off and work and make money so the father had more time to spend with the brother.

It's stage parents that are a big problem.

In Presley's case, I have no idea what was expected of her. I can't imagine Priscilla needed her to make money for them. But I also think being raised with unlimited money and no expectations can lead to problems. It seems people with that have a shallowness over them that prevents them from feeling fulfilled as their only interest is the shiny new toy. Again, I don't know if that is what happened to her.

True. And I was thinking of families I know who are extremely wealthy and their kids. I don’t know any celebrity families. That appears to add an impt factor

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

True. And I was thinking of families I know who are extremely wealthy and their kids. I don’t know any celebrity families. That appears to add an impt factor

I think there are rich kids, celebrity kids, and kids of Elvis. The levels are vastly different.

 

[NPT]

I think there are rich kids, celebrity kids, and kids of Elvis. The levels are vastly different.

Just curious.... why do you say that?

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

Just curious.... why do you say that?

I was referring to the level of the fishbowl experience, which can't be healthy. Also, there has to be a difference between being famous in your own right (child actors), and being famous because your dad was the biggest star in the world at the time.

 

[larsIU]

I was referring to the level of the fishbowl experience, which can't be healthy. Also, there has to be a difference between being famous in your own right (child actors), and being famous because your dad was the biggest star in the world at the time.

I always appreciated the Bushes and Obamas keeping their kids' lives private as possible and hated anybody saying shit about them, even after they left office.

Mr. Trump's kids were adults so I won't say anything about him in that regard as they made their own choices.

As to Barron, there's a reason I respect Melania more than Mr. Trump.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Nope. Especially if that fame and scrutiny are done under age 20. Imagine not being able to grow up in private.

A lot of these girls who are actresses as youngsters many times have problems because they hit puberty and might gain weight like normal girls do. But the press is vicious. I know the girl from growing pains Tracy Gold went through it and so did Full House's Candace Cameron.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Some of it isn't the kids, Wil Wheaton had a terrible relationship with his father. His father loved Wil's brother and did things with him all the time, Wil was expected to go off and work and make money so the father had more time to spend with the brother.

It's stage parents that are a big problem.

In Presley's case, I have no idea what was expected of her. I can't imagine Priscilla needed her to make money for them. But I also think being raised with unlimited money and no expectations can lead to problems. It seems people with that have a shallowness over them that prevents them from feeling fulfilled as their only interest is the shiny new toy. Again, I don't know if that is what happened to her.

Will has said that it was those who were on Star Trek who became surrogate fathers to him. He has special relationships with Patrick Stewart and Jonathan Frakes. When I heard his problems at home it did bother me. It was very sad. One thing I can say is Wil seems to be a good father himself so he is breaking the cycle.

 

[PhyloeBedoe]

Here's a woman who was born into, and lived in, fame her entire life. She's been wealthy her entire life, but had a hell of an upbringing and personal life: parents divorce at 4, dad dies at 9; married and divorced 4 times (two of those were pretty "out there" men in Michael Jackson and Nick Cage); had 4 children with two of those, and her son committed suicide at 27.

In reading this piece, I felt incredibly sad for her:

Lisa Marie Presley, Singer and the Only Child of Elvis, Dead at 54

Lisa Marie Presley, the singer whose blues-tinged voice carried across three albums, died on Thursday at the age of 54.

www.rollingstone.com

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

I’ve known a couple offspring of major celebs, and to varying degrees, the kids always have problems. Sometimes major problems, sometimes minor. I have great sympathy for all of them as a result. Therapy barely seems to address their problems. Not surprised to see LMP had a hard time with her situation.

 

[hoosboot]

Here's a woman who was born into, and lived in, fame her entire life. She's been wealthy her entire life, but had a hell of an upbringing and personal life: parents divorce at 4, dad dies at 9; married and divorced 4 times (two of those were pretty "out there" men in Michael Jackson and Nick Cage); had 4 children with two of those, and her son committed suicide at 27.

In reading this piece, I felt incredibly sad for her:

Lisa Marie Presley, Singer and the Only Child of Elvis, Dead at 54

Lisa Marie Presley, the singer whose blues-tinged voice carried across three albums, died on Thursday at the age of 54.

www.rollingstone.com

Can anyone growing up under constant fame and scrutiny, end up mentally healthy and well-adjusted?

Fame warps many, but some are built to withstand it and other even to thrive in it. There are a ton of super messed up famous people, but there are many really wonderfully decent ones, too.

The specifics of Lisa Marie Presley's trauma extends beyond the fame of being Elvis' daughter, but IMHO trauma is often the thing that can bring out the traits that make one famous. So, it's a complex thing.

Ultimately, surrounding oneself with good people who love you above what you can do for them is one of the keys to being mentally healthy regardless if you are famous or not. It's just that famous people have more people pulling at them who don't.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Fame warps many, but some are built to withstand it and other even to thrive in it. There are a ton of super messed up famous people, but there are many really wonderfully decent ones, too.

The specifics of Lisa Marie Presley's trauma extends beyond the fame of being Elvis' daughter, but IMHO trauma is often the thing that can bring out the traits that make one famous. So, it's a complex thing.

Ultimately, surrounding oneself with good people who love you above what you can do for them is one of the keys to being mentally healthy regardless if you are famous or not. It's just that famous people have more people pulling at them who don't.

An example of someone who seems to be normal even though they are rich and famous is Adam Sandler. Doesn't he just seem like a regular dude who has a billion dollars?

 

[larsIU]

While I don’t really care for their music I think both Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish have navigated youth and fame better than, say, Justin Bieber.

I have to believe, like everything else, it comes down to parenting.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

In reading this thread, VPM, brought up a lot of points. Cardiac arrest is common but it's usually men. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that drugs may have been involved in this case. Then he ventured into puberty and girls getting fat. Next some dialogue on Will Wheaton's dad not liking him and favoring his brother. His closing statements was that Adam Sandler is a normal guy billionaire. for good measure he threw in a couple of quips about his wife not being able to leave him because he is basically unemployable

 

[mcmurtry66]

An example of someone who seems to be normal even though they are rich and famous is Adam Sandler. Doesn't he just seem like a regular dude who has a billion dollars?

If he didn’t have a billion dollars that “regular dude” dress would have him unemployable and without a gf. That billion dollars ensures he’s a far cry from regular. Musk does it. Cuban does it. Biebs does it. When the pandemic hit and I stopped going to the office I started dressing like that at home. Looking back that was the beginning of the end.

Now I’m tight. Off the socials. Working in private. And on month four of my six month journey to come back UNRECOGNIZABLE

 

[larsIU]

Now I’m tight. Off the socials. Working in private. And on month four of my six month journey to come back UNRECOGNIZABLE

@BradStevens @Bulk VanderHuge

Guys, are we scheduling the intervention or buying deck chairs and drinks to watch the show.

 

[mcmurtry66]

@BradStevens @Bulk VanderHuge

Guys, are we scheduling the intervention or buying deck chairs and drinks to watch the show.

This is why you have to become UNRECOGNIZABLE in private and get off the socials.

Haters….

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

@BradStevens @Bulk VanderHuge

Guys, are we scheduling the intervention or buying deck chairs and drinks to watch the show.

I think I'm booked to play violin.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Fame almost always warps.

The proof is in the pudding.

The list of famous warped is way longer than the list of famous normal.

Why is a lifelong conversation and a life-long list of reasons.

And as soon as you have enough money to buy what you need, what you want, go where you want, then the natural human depravity can start to seep out (or in?).

Plus, being unable to go anywhere “normal” like a mall or restaurant? You either deal with anonymous folks who think you’re friends and when you say no, you feel bad about yourself. Or the opposite, get reinforced in a false belief you are superior and immune.

Mostly, the famous never know who REALLY loves them, or even knows them. At a young age, (too young to understand), they are even TOLD people may just love the image, not the real person, or love them for their money. They spend their life isolated in public, on a red carpet told to “look good,” paparazzied.

Add alcohol and pills and you have a perfect storm.

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

In reading this thread, VPM, brought up a lot of points. Cardiac arrest is common but it's usually men. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that drugs may have been involved in this case. Then he ventured into puberty and girls getting fat. Next some dialogue on Will Wheaton's dad not liking him and favoring his brother. His closing statements was that Adam Sandler is a normal guy billionaire. for good measure he threw in a couple of quips about his wife not being able to leave him because he is basically unemployable

You’re a real Tinkle Slinky you know.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

You’re a real Tinkle Slinky you know.

I gotta ask...

 

[Joe_Hoopsier]

I gotta ask...

I’m sure it’s trending on google searches as we speak! 😜

 

[mcmurtry66]

I think I'm booked to play violin.

Years ago I had a gay paralegal (before I was in charge of hiring) who played a couple of instruments on a cruise ship for years. The stories he would tell. Wow! Loved hearing them lol

 

[kurt cloverdales]

Fame almost always warps.

The proof is in the pudding.

The list of famous warped is way longer than the list of famous normal.

Why is a lifelong conversation and a life-long list of reasons.

And as soon as you have enough money to buy what you need, what you want, go where you want, then the natural human depravity can start to seep out (or in?).

Plus, being unable to go anywhere “normal” like a mall or restaurant? You either deal with anonymous folks who think you’re friends and when you say no, you feel bad about yourself. Or the opposite, get reinforced in a false belief you are superior and immune.

Mostly, the famous never know who REALLY loves them, or even knows them. At a young age, (too young to understand), they are even TOLD people may just love the image, not the real person, or love them for their money. They spend their life isolated in public, on a red carpet told to “look good,” paparazzied.

Add alcohol and pills and you have a perfect storm.

don't know about the percentage of crazies is any higher than the rest of society as far as being famous, you only hear about the ones who go off the rails. Now when you reach Elvis and Michael Jackson type fame where you are basically a prisoner and can't leave your house. that's a tough life.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

Years ago I had a gay paralegal (before I was in charge of hiring)

Throw back MadMen line if I've ever heard one.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Throw back MadMen line if I've ever heard one.

Lmao. Honestly he was a throwback. Chest hair sticking out on casual fridays. Mustache. Smoked. Immaculate and dressed to the 9’s. Funnier than shit

He hated the grubby clients and would refer to them to me as animals. There was an animal injured in the parking lot at home depot

 

[Ohio Guy]

Fame almost always warps.

The proof is in the pudding.

The list of famous warped is way longer than the list of famous normal.

Why is a lifelong conversation and a life-long list of reasons.

And as soon as you have enough money to buy what you need, what you want, go where you want, then the natural human depravity can start to seep out (or in?).

Plus, being unable to go anywhere “normal” like a mall or restaurant? You either deal with anonymous folks who think you’re friends and when you say no, you feel bad about yourself. Or the opposite, get reinforced in a false belief you are superior and immune.

Mostly, the famous never know who REALLY loves them, or even knows them. At a young age, (too young to understand), they are even TOLD people may just love the image, not the real person, or love them for their money. They spend their life isolated in public, on a red carpet told to “look good,” paparazzied.

Add alcohol and pills and you have a perfect storm.

I feel like the Beatles did - and have - handled fame well. Obviously John and George are gone, but neither died due to fame dragging them down into a downward spiral. Yes, John was killed because he was famous, but Mark David Chapman had a long list of famous people he was going to kill and John's name just happened to be on the top.

All the Beatles' kids seem to be reasonably level-headed too. I read somewhere that they're all friends and see each other when they're in the same cities/have the time to do so.

I remember reading something Paul McCartney said about fame. He said he felt bad for solo acts like Elvis because they didn't have people who were going through the exact same thing to keep them in check when they might get too full of themselves or go off the deep end. I think that might be the secret sauce. No one who works for you will be able to tell you the truth, but people on your level experiencing the same thing will. Elvis didn't have that.

 

[anon_6hv78pr714xta]

This is why you have to become UNRECOGNIZABLE in private and get off the socials.

Haters….

Back in law school, my buddies and I would insist we were embarking on life altering new habits, directions, etc. about once a week (while hammered at the bar, racking up credit card receipts like paper IOUs from some drunken game of Monopoly). Came to be known as Life Changes or LCs for short.

Can't wait to see the results of this LC. Need before and after pics.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I feel like the Beatles did - and have - handled fame well. Obviously John and George are gone, but neither died due to fame dragging them down into a downward spiral. Yes, John was killed because he was famous, but Mark David Chapman had a long list of famous people he was going to kill and John's name just happened to be on the top.

All the Beatles' kids seem to be reasonably level-headed too. I read somewhere that they're all friends and see each other when they're in the same cities/have the time to do so.

I remember reading something Paul McCartney said about fame. He said he felt bad for solo acts like Elvis because they didn't have people who were going through the exact same thing to keep them in check when they might get too full of themselves or go off the deep end. I think that might be the secret sauce. No one who works for you will be able to tell you the truth, but people on your level experiencing the same thing will. Elvis didn't have that.

LSD

 

[Ohio Guy]

LSD

What are you saying here? LSD kept the band sane?

I honestly have no idea if that's a thing or not.

 

[outside shooter]

The Beatles seemed to try hard to not forget their working class Liverpool roots. That would not apply to their kids though

 

[VanPastorMan]

Years ago I had a gay paralegal (before I was in charge of hiring) who played a couple of instruments on a cruise ship for years. The stories he would tell. Wow! Loved hearing them lol

Well......are you going to tell any of those stories to us? You left us hangin bro.

 

[Ohio Guy]

The Beatles seemed to try hard to not forget their working class Liverpool roots. That would not apply to their kids though

I do think their kids have a sense of their history though. Paul's kids talk about visiting Liverpool growing up all the time. There is a video floating around of them all visiting his extended family for Christmas in Liverpool.

All of their kids have led very privileged lives - there is no doubt about that - but at least the ones who have a public presence seem to be pretty well grounded.