If no LQ, then what do we do?

[iubud]

Creans first year was a depleted roster. Archie was left with enough talent to make the ncaa. You disagree with that?

Of course I disagree with that!

Where does the senior class of Priller, Hartman, McSwain, Newkirk, and Rojo rank on the list of all-time senior classes at IU? Add to that an injured Davis and that team had no chance at an NCAA appearance. Luckily Archie salvaged Crean's roster and turned Morgan into an offensive player. We were able to stay above .500 and finish with a .500 conference record. That is as good as that poor shooting, low IQ roster could have managed.

 

[bailey777]

Of course I disagree with that!

Where does the senior class of Priller, Hartman, McSwain, Newkirk, and Rojo rank on the list of all-time senior classes at IU? Add to that an injured Davis and that team had no chance at an NCAA appearance. Luckily Archie salvaged Crean's roster and turned Morgan into an offensive player. We were able to stay above .500 and finish with a .500 conference record. That is as good as that poor shooting, low IQ roster could have managed.

Totally disagree but i guess I have higher expectations for the IU teams. The excuses are mind boggling just like they were with crean. No wonder we are not elite.

 

[bailey777]

Of course I disagree with that!

Where does the senior class of Priller, Hartman, McSwain, Newkirk, and Rojo rank on the list of all-time senior classes at IU? Add to that an injured Davis and that team had no chance at an NCAA appearance. Luckily Archie salvaged Crean's roster and turned Morgan into an offensive player. We were able to stay above .500 and finish with a .500 conference record. That is as good as that poor shooting, low IQ roster could have managed.

What's your realistic expectation in year three. NIT? Just curious

 

[cryano]

Of course I disagree with that!

Where does the senior class of Priller, Hartman, McSwain, Newkirk, and Rojo rank on the list of all-time senior classes at IU? Add to that an injured Davis and that team had no chance at an NCAA appearance. Luckily Archie salvaged Crean's roster and turned Morgan into an offensive player. We were able to stay above .500 and finish with a .500 conference record. That is as good as that poor shooting, low IQ roster could have managed.

Most schools dont have great ‘all time’ seniors anymore...if they are great - they don’t usually see their senior seasons...

You are pretty harsh on the players...

 

[T.M.P.]

It hasn't been full in years. It is embarrassingly empty compared to pre-Crean times.

Wut?

 

[Al Bino]

Totally disagree but i guess I have higher expectations for the IU teams. The excuses are mind boggling just like they were with crean. No wonder we are not elite.

How can you disagree with what he said?

You can expect final four every year but that doesn't make it realistic.

What was your expectation for Archie's first year with THAT roster. IIRC, most publications were picking us around ninth that year and didn't we finish sixth?

 

[Al Bino]

IU is like the Cubs. It does not matter how bad we are people still pack the arena, and Fred Glass knows this. That is why the admins have the attitude they have. As long as Assembly Hall is full that is all they care about.

And what EVIDENCE to you have to draw the conclusion that they don't care about winning? Or do you just pull your opinions out of your arse?

Fred Glass is an IU grad and sports guy and you are trying to tell me he doesn't care about winning? McRobbie isn't a sports guy so I would assume he doesn't care about sports let alone winning.

Extraordinary claims require the same evidence. Looking forward to seeing yours.

 

[Stellara1]

I'd prefer students who earned their way. It is supposed to be student-athletes not the other way around.

You're right let's worry more about good students instead of winning! Hoo Hoo Hoosiers!

 

[Stellara1]

And what EVIDENCE to you have to draw the conclusion that they don't care about winning? Or do you just pull your opinions out of your arse?

Fred Glass is an IU grad and sports guy and you are trying to tell me he doesn't care about winning? McRobbie isn't a sports guy so I would assume he doesn't care about sports let alone winning.

Extraordinary claims require the same evidence. Looking forward to seeing yours.

What exactly makes Glass a "sports guy" I under impression he was an attorney.

 

[fpeaugh]

More water


like when IU got better the year after Vonleh and Sheehey left?

you talk so much but don;t...actually...follow...this...game...

weird, ya douche

You mean the year we had Yogi, Blackmon, Bryant, Troy, Robert Johnson, Morgan, and Bielfeldt?

Yup...we don’t have a single guy who would start on that team.

 

[Al Bino]

What exactly makes Glass a "sports guy" I under impression he was an attorney.

Wasn't he with the CIB that a lot to do with sports in Indy?

 

[fpeaugh]

How can you disagree with what he said?

You can expect final four every year but that doesn't make it realistic.

What was your expectation for Archie's first year with THAT roster. IIRC, most publications were picking us around ninth that year and didn't we finish sixth?

Realistic is making the tournament IF you’re a great coach. No one said anything about a Final Four.

 

[Al Bino]

Realistic is making the tournament IF you’re a great coach. No one said anything about a Final Four.

And making the tourney that year would have been vastly overachieving based on predicted finish.

 

[Lt. John Mclaine]

I wonder if the staff has looked at any Junior College players..? There's usually a lot of good athletic guards in the Juco Ranks.

I like our big guys and really think that the Roster is much better than fans say it is, but I'd like to see Archie use at least one Scholarship on another guard, and Junior College players might be an easier avenue than Grad Transfers.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

That’s a big if. To somehow start winning with a team far less talented than we had last year, and likely less talented than we had 2 years ago. So Archie’s worst roster will be his best team on the court? I’m skeptical.

Archie inherited an McDonald's All-American? Had good guards?

You post some really ignorant crap . . .

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Creans first year was a depleted roster. Archie was left with enough talent to make the ncaa. You disagree with that?

Definitely.

You lost the 3 best players - two whom went in the 2017 NBA Draft - off a team that was 18-16 (7-11 in B1G) and you think the leftovers should be BETTER?

 

[fpeaugh]

Archie inherited an McDonald's All-American? Had good guards?

You post some really ignorant crap . . .

Robert Johnson was better than any guard we have now. And he was a Senior.

Oh, and then there was All Big Ten forward Juwan Morgan.

And you apologists need to get your story straight on McD AA 5 stars. You blame not having them when it fits your narrative, then you blame having them when it fits another narrative. Which is it?

 

[cryano]

Robert Johnson was better than any guard we have now. And he was a Senior.

Oh, and then there was All Big Ten forward Juwan Morgan.

Newkirk and Johnson are about as good of Senior guards as you can expect...much better than RoJo and theyd be making money to play. Guys like Newkirk are grad transfers and out the door. He was a transfer to IU.

Yogi of course was better, but was size-limited, and possibly record hungry....

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Robert Johnson was better than any guard we have now. And he was a Senior.

Oh, and then there was All Big Ten forward Juwan Morgan.

And you apologists need to get your story straight on McD AA 5 stars. You blame not having them when it fits your narrative, then you blame having them when it fits another narrative. Which is it?

Robert Johnson BETTER? You must have forgotten his over 20% turnover ratio.

Juwan Morgan was all big 10 in 2016-17?

When did I EVER blame having a 5-Star player for anything? Link please.

 

[fpeaugh]

Robert Johnson BETTER? You must have forgotten his over 20% turnover ratio.

Juwan Morgan was all big 10 in 2016-17?

When did I EVER blame having a 5-Star player for anything? Link please.

Was 2016-2017 Archie’s first year?

You’ve been the main poster saying we don’t want 5 star players. Get a clue.

 

[Tasmanian Devil]

Was 2016-2017 Archie’s first year?

Archie INHERITED the players left from that team. So, did he inherit an All-B1G player in Morgan from 2016-17, or not? Yes, or no?

You’ve been the main poster saying we don’t want 5 star players. Get a clue.

Link please.

Bump

C’mon @fpeaugh - where is the link to me saying that?

While you’re at it, give us the link on Juwan Morgan being an All-Big 10 player in 2016-17. We’ll wait . . .

 

[hondo314]

You mean the year we had Yogi, Blackmon, Bryant, Troy, Robert Johnson, Morgan, and Bielfeldt?

Yup...we don’t have a single guy who would start on that team.

Hahahahaha Bryant was a sophomore in hs that year. Morgan was a non-contributing freshman. Biefeldt was still at Michigan.

Again, you don’t follow this sport....

Dumb and douchey is no way to go through life...

 

[coachv jr]

Newkirk and Johnson are about as good of Senior guards as you can expect...much better than RoJo and theyd be making money to play. Guys like Newkirk are grad transfers and out the door. He was a transfer to IU.

Yogi of course was better, but was size-limited, and possibly record hungry....

newkirk? please. and johnson did not have one discernible skill that set him apart from other players. just average guys

 

[Tegray1]

This is insane. You get 13 scholarships. You can do both.

I don't want to build for one good year and suck for the next 2. I agree with Archie's process to build a sustainable program and roster with a proper balance.

We did it your way for 9 years and it left us with a depleted roster that will take many recruiting classes to correct.

 

[iubud]

What's your realistic expectation in year three. NIT? Just curious

Without a big recruit or transfer, I expect to avoid the mid season collapse, or at least a slump of a shorter duration. All teams have a period they don't play well. Our bad stretch was aided by things that have hopefully been resolved.

We grow up a little more this year. That doesn't mean every player becomes All Americans, but they learn how to handle success and failure. Players like Green, Davis, and Durham know this is their year to prove themselves. Smith has to earn his playing time and doesn't win the spot by default. I look for Green to have a senior year similar to VJII. Jones struggled with turnovers and bad decisions in his first 3 years, but had a good final year when more was expected of him. Phinisee has an off season knowing he is the PG and a floor leader.

Our shooting percentage from 3 can make modest improvement and while we will miss Morgan, we will have more than one front court player on the court at a time. Our defense can improve with offering better resistance inside and depth to make big men work harder to score. Without multiple long term injuries, this team can win 20 games and make the NCAA tournament. The bigger move forward comes in 20 - 21.

 

[snarlcakes]

Stop making excuses for Archie and let him win some before you go ahead and swallow, at least spit for now. No use talking you off of deepthroating him.



VJ the 9th is my 3rd least favorite player in the last 20 years. Your statements about him are just plain stupid to be nice. He had a TO rate of 27.3% his senior year, the highest on the team by far. Do you know how bad 27.3 is for TO rate??? Devonte was highest this year (23%) not counting Mcroberts or Damezi........VJ the 75th shot 30% from 3 his senior year, but hey he did improve from topping the second worst 3 point shooting year in IU history his sophomore more year at 27% (Romeo beat him out for worst three point shooter ever this year). Devonte 41% this year FYI

So basically you want Devonte to turn it over way more and shoot it like Romeo. "Jones struggled with turnovers and bad decisions in his first 3 years, but had a good final year when more was expected of him"?????You should be banned for slander.

I agree with most of your post. It would be a better post if you edited out the bolded part.

 

[iubud]

If you want to rank it since 2009 when Crean got here it ranks as the second best senior class behind Watford and Hulls. We made the tournament with far less "senior" leadership under Crean. So Archie actually inherited the 2nd best "seniors" IU has seen in a decade.

Archie hasn't done shit yet and to argue anything other is really stupid. Holtman has now made the tournament twice, and won a game each time mind you...... with less talent by any metric you want to look at it. We just got the second highest rated recruit in my lifetime and failed to make the tournament with Juwan Morgan as a senior. They were both healthy all year.

Stop making excuses for Archie and let him win some before you go ahead and swallow, at least spit for now. No use talking you off of deepthroating him.



VJ the 9th is my 3rd least favorite player in the last 20 years. Your statements about him are just plain stupid to be nice. He had a TO rate of 27.3% his senior year, the highest on the team by far. Do you know how bad 27.3 is for TO rate??? Devonte was highest this year (23%) not counting Mcroberts or Damezi........VJ the 75th shot 30% from 3 his senior year, but hey he did improve from topping the second worst 3 point shooting year in IU history his sophomore more year at 27% (Romeo beat him out for worst three point shooter ever this year). Devonte 41% this year FYI

So basically you want Devonte to turn it over way more and shoot it like Romeo. "Jones struggled with turnovers and bad decisions in his first 3 years, but had a good final year when more was expected of him"?????You should be banned for slander.

I make no excuses for Archie. It is simply too early to make judge Archie's eventual success. Archie was given a team that was bad enough to get his predecessor fired. It wasn't just coaching that Crean failed at, it was building a program that didn't have ups and downs like a roller coaster. Crean's last roster (Archie's first year) was going to have more downs with little upside.

The 5 seniors Archie inherited were not the second best of Crean's tenure. There is only one of 5 (five, cinco) that would have been helpful to return or better than a freshman. Rojo was good as a third scorer, but was never good when used as the #1 or #2 option. Hartman was limited in his final years due to improper use over the years and likely an accumulation of injuries. Newkirk was low IQ, low talent, but had brief periods of usefulness in the 2 years he played. McSwain was probably a beast in juco. He had neither the size or skill to play the only position he could handle. Priller, was what Gelon would have been if Archie hadn't given him a dose of truth.

VJIII still hadn't become perfect, but he was missed greatly after he was injured in the B1G tournament. He had learned a lot in 3 years and was failed as much from a coaching philosophy as he was in his slow mental development. Holtman had enough talent to sustain him during that first season. Squidward left the team and wasn't fired after running the program into a ditch like Crean.

You and the others I have ignored seem to think a coach can take mediocre players with low energy and IQ and make them into national contenders with a single player with little motivation other than maintaining his draft status.. You don't have the maturity to allow a process to develop. I happen to believe Archie's process will work and we will become a great program again. I will unignore several in a couple of years and see how they have changed.

 

[IU5355]

He picked Memphis. Shocker

 

[IUgradman]

Wasn't he with the CIB that a lot to do with sports in Indy?

That is different from running a university athletics department and making coaching decisions. Fred had no business being hired from an experience standpoint.

 

[bailey777]

He picked Memphis. Shocker

There was really no drams in this one. I think almost all of us knew he was going to pick Memphis. Penny is the shiny new thing.

 

[Al Bino]

That is different from running a university athletics department and making coaching decisions. Fred had no business being hired from an experience standpoint.

Valid point.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Hahahahaha Bryant was a sophomore in hs that year. Morgan was a non-contributing freshman. Biefeldt was still at Michigan.

Again, you don’t follow this sport....

Dumb and douchey is no way to go through life...

He’s dumber than a bag of hammers. Posters have pegged him as nothing but a troll and I think they’re absolutely right. He and about 5 or 6 other Negative Nancies here are only pretending to be IU fans (and not at all convincingly) while bashing IU for their juvenile jollies. Some are the same people with different handles.

 

[PranksterMary]

He’s dumber than a bag of hammers. Posters have pegged him as nothing but a troll and I think they’re absolutely right. He and about 5 or 6 other Negative Nancies here are only pretending to be IU fans (and not all convincingly) while bashing IU for their juvenile jollies. Some are the same people with different handles.

But not nearly as dumb as you consistently show yourself to be. That bag of hammers is brilliant compared to you.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

But not nearly as dumb as you consistently show yourself to be. That bag of hammers is brilliant compared to you.

Dude, you're one of them and you know it, which is why you replied. You've made 52 posts that are dumber than dirt IU bashing, nonsense. What other handles do you use? Are you a UK fan or a PU fan?

 

[cryano]

Dude, you're one of them and you know it, which is why you replied. You've made 52 posts that are dumber than dirt, IU bashing, nonsense. What other handles do you use? Are you a UK fan or a PU fan?

A USC guard just became grad transfer eligible...and I think VJ King from UL is too.

Not that i’m high on either - but moreso than wasting 2 scholarships...

 

[ndhuntington]

Probably Mcroberts type players can't shoot play defense if I had to guess welcome to the new Indiana basketball.

 

[i'vegotwinners]