I-69; Delphi

[mushroomgod_1]

I did not follow the I-69 case over the years, but I see it has now been solved through DNA testing. Interestingly, the sketches of the suspect were pretty much on-point with the appearance of the deceased killer. I assume he was a long-time suspect but maybe someone knowledgeable with the case can advice on that point?

I have become interested in the Delphi case as it has dragged on with no resolution. So questions for those still following the case--(1)Do you believe either Kegan Kline or Tony Kline are Bridge Guy? (2)If you think not, do you think either or both were waiting 'down the hill' and physically committed the murders, or do you think neither was there? (3)If you think neither was BG, do you have an opinion as to who it most likely is? (4)If you have no specific POI in mind, do you believe BG was a random out-of-immediate area/state SK, someone from Carroll County, or someone from nearby (Peru, Lafayette etc)?

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I did not follow the I-69 case over the years, but I see it has now been solved through DNA testing. Interestingly, the sketches of the suspect were pretty much on-point with the appearance of the deceased killer. I assume he was a long-time suspect but maybe someone knowledgeable with the case can advice on that point?

I have become interested in the Delphi case as it has dragged on with no resolution. So questions for those still following the case--(1)Do you believe either Kegan Kline or Tony Kline are Bridge Guy? (2)If you think not, do you think either or both were waiting 'down the hill' and physically committed the murders, or do you think neither was there? (3)If you think neither was BG, do you have an opinion as to who it most likely is? (4)If you have no specific POI in mind, do you believe BG was a random out-of-immediate area/state SK, someone from Carroll County, or someone from nearby (Peru, Lafayette etc)?

I-69 was a typo.....should be I-65

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

I’ve followed this case some. Where did you read that it’s been solved? An admittedly quick google search shows nothing.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I’ve followed this case some. Where did you read that it’s been solved? An admittedly quick google search shows nothing.

The I-65 case has been solved. Delphi has not. News of the I-65 case was around yesterday.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

The I-65 case has been solved. Delphi has not. News of the I-65 case was around yesterday.

Thanks. I wasn’t familiar with the I 65 case.

I think the only thing certain about the Delphi murders is that they were committed either by some who lives in the area or someone who is extremely familiar with the area. Probably by someone familiar with the police.

As far as I know, it’s still not public knowledge exactly how the girls died, which is weird to me, unless it may possibly help with identifying the killer n

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Thanks. I wasn’t familiar with the I 65 case.

I think the only thing certain about the Delphi murders is that they were committed either by some who lives in the area or someone who is extremely familiar with the area. Probably by someone familiar with the police.

As far as I know, it’s still not public knowledge exactly how the girls died, which is weird to me, unless it may possibly help with identifying the killer n

Although it's not public knowledge, my understanding is that causes of death were knife attacks. The manner in which they were killed indicates that Libby was the special focus of the killer.......Abby was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Abby was killed with brutal efficiency, Libby's body was mutilated.

This is not information released by LE, but is the subject of public internet discussion. I have no personal information nor any source with LE, but I believe the info to be accurate.

 

[DANC]

Although it's not public knowledge, my understanding is that causes of death were knife attacks. The manner in which they were killed indicates that Libby was the special focus of the killer.......Abby was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Abby was killed with brutal efficiency, Libby's body was mutilated.

This is not information released by LE, but is the subject of public internet discussion. I have no personal information nor any source with LE, but I believe the info to be accurate.

I've been on that path and have seen that bridge. It's WAY back in there. I lived in Carroll County.

So is the theory Libby had communicated with the killer prior to the murder?

I admit I haven't followed all the rumors. The police have been very tight-lipped. My cousin is a sheriff deputy there and there is no info coming out. I think the theory is the killer lives in Delphi or surrounding area and they're waiting for him to reveal himself somehow.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I've been on that path and have seen that bridge. It's WAY back in there. I lived in Carroll County.

So is the theory Libby had communicated with the killer prior to the murder?

I admit I haven't followed all the rumors. The police have been very tight-lipped. My cousin is a sheriff deputy there and there is no info coming out. I think the theory is the killer lives in Delphi or surrounding area and they're waiting for him to reveal himself somehow.

ISP in an interview with KAK told him that the Shots account (to which KAK and his dad TK had access) was
the last non-family member to speak to Libby. Libby and KAK had both wiped their phones about one week before the murders. After the murders the Klines went to Vegas 'on vacation'. While in Vegas the Shots account closely followed the news of the murders.

LE knew about KAK's contacts with Libby right away. A search warrant for their home was served maybe 1-2 weeks after the murders. Apparently nothing incriminating concerning Delphi was found. Although LE knew of KAK's child porn activities right away, he wasn't arrested on those charges until 2019 or 2020. In the meantime, LE maintained that catfishing had nothing to do with the murders. Even after he was charged with many counts of child porn. That all changed in Dec '21 when LE strongly implied that catfishing and more particularly the Anthony Shots account has everything to do with the case. The thought by others is that KAK is way too slow and fat to have been the killer, but that Tony Kline, who is older, leaner, and much meaner and also had access to the account, could be the guy. No one else, to the best of my knowledge, has been shown to have had access to the account. LE concentrated on TK's connections to the account when they questioned KAK.

Problem is, neither TK nor KAK really appear to match the disguised appearance of BG, nor do their voices really match the "Guys...down the hill" audio.

Many theorize that KAK shared Libby's nude photos with another perv, who somehow enticed Libby to come to the bridge on the murder date. Problem is, the decision by Libby & Abby to go to the path/bridge did not appear to others to have been planned, but rather spur of the moment.

Other people think the killer is a local and the catfishing angle is just an amazing coincidence. There is one local who was on the bridge the date of the murder, and has apparently given LE conflicting statements about his time line on that day. He is also thought to have been the source for the 'first sketch' that was released by LE. He happens to look a lot more like the 'second sketch', which was created very soon after the murders, but wasn't released until 2019. Those who think he was the guy think he gave LE a description that closely matched BG to throw them off the trail. Problem is, I have never seen a motive for him that makes any sense.

Various other locals have also been mentioned as possible POI, even including the ex-mayor, who ended up being a the chief deputy prosecutor for the County after the murders. Derek, Libby's father, is not a POI; however, he is said to have been actively involved in the local drug scene when younger. Some have speculated that he later assisted LE in their endeavors, and there may be a revenge motive. To me, the killings seem way too personal toward Libby for that to be a motive, but who knows.

Others believe the the murderer wasn't local, but rather a random SK. The Prosecutor when the murders occurred stated that the murder scene was 'staged', and included 3 "signatures" of the type often seen in SKs, including one with some religious significance. The problem with this theory is that the murders were carried out with terrible efficiency, which points to someone with a very thorough knowledge of the path/bridge. Essentially, there is a two lane HW not far from the bridge, houses in either direction maybe 300-500 yards away, and a # of locals on or about the path that day. And the murders are known to have occurred between 2:15 and 3:00, with the killer or killers making a clean getaway. LE has stated that the killer "may be hiding in plain sight" and that people would be shocked when he was charged. To me, the best argument against it being someone form Carroll Co. is that there probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred men who could conceivably match the BG description, and none have been charged 5 years after the fact. Only 3000 people live in Delphi.

I say killer or killers because there is apparently disagreement in LE about whether there was only 1 killer, or more. It's pretty clear there was only one perp on the bridge. But there may have been 1 or more down the hill. Originally, LE said they were looking for a single killer. Now it's said that they 'go back and forth' over that issue.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Although it's not public knowledge, my understanding is that causes of death were knife attacks. The manner in which they were killed indicates that Libby was the special focus of the killer.......Abby was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Abby was killed with brutal efficiency, Libby's body was mutilated.

This is not information released by LE, but is the subject of public internet discussion. I have no personal information nor any source with LE, but I believe the info to be accurate.

Is there any truth to the rumor that the bodies were posed in some way? I’ve seen that floated.

Also, in your opinion, what is the reasoning behind not revealing the cause of death?

ISP in an interview with KAK told him that the Shots account (to which KAK and his dad TK had access) was
the last non-family member to speak to Libby. Libby and KAK had both wiped their phones about one week before the murders. After the murders the Klines went to Vegas 'on vacation'. While in Vegas the Shots account closely followed the news of the murders.

LE knew about KAK's contacts with Libby right away. A search warrant for their home was served maybe 1-2 weeks after the murders. Apparently nothing incriminating concerning Delphi was found. Although LE knew of KAK's child porn activities right away, he wasn't arrested on those charges until 2019 or 2020. In the meantime, LE maintained that catfishing had nothing to do with the murders. Even after he was charged with many counts of child porn. That all changed in Dec '21 when LE strongly implied that catfishing and more particularly the Anthony Shots account has everything to do with the case. The thought by others is that KAK is way too slow and fat to have been the killer, but that Tony Kline, who is older, leaner, and much meaner and also had access to the account, could be the guy. No one else, to the best of my knowledge, has been shown to have had access to the account. LE concentrated on TK's connections to the account when they questioned KAK.

Problem is, neither TK nor KAK really appear to match the disguised appearance of BG, nor do their voices really match the "Guys...down the hill" audio.

Many theorize that KAK shared Libby's nude photos with another perv, who somehow enticed Libby to come to the bridge on the murder date. Problem is, the decision by Libby & Abby to go to the path/bridge did not appear to others to have been planned, but rather spur of the moment.

Other people think the killer is a local and the catfishing angle is just an amazing coincidence. There is one local who was on the bridge the date of the murder, and has apparently given LE conflicting statements about his time line on that day. He is also thought to have been the source for the 'first sketch' that was released by LE. He happens to look a lot more like the 'second sketch', which was created very soon after the murders, but wasn't released until 2019. Those who think he was the guy think he gave LE a description that closely matched BG to throw them off the trail. Problem is, I have never seen a motive for him that makes any sense.

Various other locals have also been mentioned as possible POI, even including the ex-mayor, who ended up being a the chief deputy prosecutor for the County after the murders. Derek, Libby's father, is not a POI; however, he is said to have been actively involved in the local drug scene when younger. Some have speculated that he later assisted LE in their endeavors, and there may be a revenge motive. To me, the killings seem way too personal toward Libby for that to be a motive, but who knows.

Others believe the the murderer wasn't local, but rather a random SK. The Prosecutor when the murders occurred stated that the murder scene was 'staged', and included 3 "signatures" of the type often seen in SKs, including one with some religious significance. The problem with this theory is that the murders were carried out with terrible efficiency, which points to someone with a very thorough knowledge of the path/bridge. Essentially, there is a two lane HW not far from the bridge, houses in either direction maybe 300-500 yards away, and a # of locals on or about the path that day. And the murders are known to have occurred between 2:15 and 3:00, with the killer or killers making a clean getaway. LE has stated that the killer "may be hiding in plain sight" and that people would be shocked when he was charged. To me, the best argument against it being someone form Carroll Co. is that there probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred men who could conceivably match the BG description, and none have been charged 5 years after the fact. Only 3000 people live in Delphi.

I say killer or killers because there is apparently disagreement in LE about whether there was only 1 killer, or more. It's pretty clear there was only one perp on the bridge. But there may have been 1 or more down the hill. Originally, LE said they were looking for a single killer. Now it's said that they 'go back and forth' over that issue.

Good info, thanks.

I wonder if it wasn’t actually some random serial killer with some sort of superficial connection to the area. It would be a one in a million coincidence if that’s the case but it’s not impossible.

That would explain the total lack of evidence pointing to a local culprit. It wouldn’t explain the apparent special attention paid to Libby, unless he just took a liking to her.

I wonder if there was any dna evidence. One would think there would have been because there’s ALWAYS a sexual motive involved in a crime like that.

Just a terrible but fascinating case. I’m afraid the more time goes by the less of a chance it actually gets solved.

 

[DANC]

ISP in an interview with KAK told him that the Shots account (to which KAK and his dad TK had access) was
the last non-family member to speak to Libby. Libby and KAK had both wiped their phones about one week before the murders. After the murders the Klines went to Vegas 'on vacation'. While in Vegas the Shots account closely followed the news of the murders.

LE knew about KAK's contacts with Libby right away. A search warrant for their home was served maybe 1-2 weeks after the murders. Apparently nothing incriminating concerning Delphi was found. Although LE knew of KAK's child porn activities right away, he wasn't arrested on those charges until 2019 or 2020. In the meantime, LE maintained that catfishing had nothing to do with the murders. Even after he was charged with many counts of child porn. That all changed in Dec '21 when LE strongly implied that catfishing and more particularly the Anthony Shots account has everything to do with the case. The thought by others is that KAK is way too slow and fat to have been the killer, but that Tony Kline, who is older, leaner, and much meaner and also had access to the account, could be the guy. No one else, to the best of my knowledge, has been shown to have had access to the account. LE concentrated on TK's connections to the account when they questioned KAK.

Problem is, neither TK nor KAK really appear to match the disguised appearance of BG, nor do their voices really match the "Guys...down the hill" audio.

Many theorize that KAK shared Libby's nude photos with another perv, who somehow enticed Libby to come to the bridge on the murder date. Problem is, the decision by Libby & Abby to go to the path/bridge did not appear to others to have been planned, but rather spur of the moment.

Other people think the killer is a local and the catfishing angle is just an amazing coincidence. There is one local who was on the bridge the date of the murder, and has apparently given LE conflicting statements about his time line on that day. He is also thought to have been the source for the 'first sketch' that was released by LE. He happens to look a lot more like the 'second sketch', which was created very soon after the murders, but wasn't released until 2019. Those who think he was the guy think he gave LE a description that closely matched BG to throw them off the trail. Problem is, I have never seen a motive for him that makes any sense.

Various other locals have also been mentioned as possible POI, even including the ex-mayor, who ended up being a the chief deputy prosecutor for the County after the murders. Derek, Libby's father, is not a POI; however, he is said to have been actively involved in the local drug scene when younger. Some have speculated that he later assisted LE in their endeavors, and there may be a revenge motive. To me, the killings seem way too personal toward Libby for that to be a motive, but who knows.

Others believe the the murderer wasn't local, but rather a random SK. The Prosecutor when the murders occurred stated that the murder scene was 'staged', and included 3 "signatures" of the type often seen in SKs, including one with some religious significance. The problem with this theory is that the murders were carried out with terrible efficiency, which points to someone with a very thorough knowledge of the path/bridge. Essentially, there is a two lane HW not far from the bridge, houses in either direction maybe 300-500 yards away, and a # of locals on or about the path that day. And the murders are known to have occurred between 2:15 and 3:00, with the killer or killers making a clean getaway. LE has stated that the killer "may be hiding in plain sight" and that people would be shocked when he was charged. To me, the best argument against it being someone form Carroll Co. is that there probably wouldn't be more than a few hundred men who could conceivably match the BG description, and none have been charged 5 years after the fact. Only 3000 people live in Delphi.

I say killer or killers because there is apparently disagreement in LE about whether there was only 1 killer, or more. It's pretty clear there was only one perp on the bridge. But there may have been 1 or more down the hill. Originally, LE said they were looking for a single killer. Now it's said that they 'go back and forth' over that issue.

Interesting. I don't know any of those initials. I can tell you that, although there are some houses a few hundred yards away, the location is in a thick woods and it's a very steep slope going down to Deer Creek. Someone could be making a noise down there and easily not be heard by any houses anywhere close. It would be easy to get out of there unnoticed - there's virtually no traffic on that road.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Interesting. I don't know any of those initials. I can tell you that, although there are some houses a few hundred yards away, the location is in a thick woods and it's a very steep slope going down to Deer Creek. Someone could be making a noise down there and easily not be heard by any houses anywhere close. It would be easy to get out of there unnoticed - there's virtually no traffic on that road.

Thanks for the info.

Some info that relative strangers to the case might not understand......there is a long path/trail that is fairly busy that leads to the bridge. The bridge is not considered part of the path, but is right at the end of the trail. It is one hell of a bridge....maybe 1/4 mile long? And about 80' above the creek, which is a significant creek. The area is very scenic.

The bridge is in very poor condition. There have been efforts to raise $ to repair it. Others have wanted it torn down. It is scary as hell for most people to walk on the bridge. I've seen videos of people who have visited the crime scene and started to walk on the bridge and ended up crawling over parts of it. It's really kind of amazing that the entrance has never been blocked. It is decidedly walk on it at your own risk. It is something that only the young or adventurous would do.

Libby and Abby walked the entire trail and the entire length of the bridge on 2/13/17. There is no public access at the far end of the bridge. At some point, BG came onto the bridge behind them. It is thought that BG did not walk the path but at some point came up from under the bridge to get behind the girls. The girls ended up being trapped at the end of the bridge by BG, who had and cocked a gun. That is thought to be why they did not initially run.

People think it HAD to be someone with some experience with the path/bridge and someone in good physical condition with a commanding demeanor (military? LE? ) because of the calmness shown by BG as he walked the bridge, with his hands in his pockets; the authority in his audio; the efficiency of his attack, which likely all occurred within a 30M time frame with elaborate posing /staging below the bridge, the physicality needed to walk down the steep hill and subdue both girls (Libby is said to have fought back hard). That's also why many people believe two or more people were involved.

Most of what I have written is not info that has been made public. There is huge interest in the case with tons of rumors. Once you've read and heard enough about it you can sort the wheat from the chaff, for the most part.

Back to Danc.......DP is a local. If you're interested google Delphia reddit DP and you'll see his name mentioned in the thread. His rumored behavior that day was very odd, and a minority of internet watchers strongly believe he did it. My problem with him as a suspect is I've never seen a motive mentioned.

 

[DANC]

Thanks for the info.

Some info that relative strangers to the case might not understand......there is a long path/trail that is fairly busy that leads to the bridge. The bridge is not considered part of the path, but is right at the end of the trail. It is one hell of a bridge....maybe 1/4 mile long? And about 80' above the creek, which is a significant creek. The area is very scenic.

The bridge is in very poor condition. There have been efforts to raise $ to repair it. Others have wanted it torn down. It is scary as hell for most people to walk on the bridge. I've seen videos of people who have visited the crime scene and started to walk on the bridge and ended up crawling over parts of it. It's really kind of amazing that the entrance has never been blocked. It is decidedly walk on it at your own risk. It is something that only the young or adventurous would do.

Libby and Abby walked the entire trail and the entire length of the bridge on 2/13/17. There is no public access at the far end of the bridge. At some point, BG came onto the bridge behind them. It is thought that BG did not walk the path but at some point came up from under the bridge to get behind the girls. The girls ended up being trapped at the end of the bridge by BG, who had and cocked a gun. That is thought to be why they did not initially run.

People think it HAD to be someone with some experience with the path/bridge and someone in good physical condition with a commanding demeanor (military? LE? ) because of the calmness shown by BG as he walked the bridge, with his hands in his pockets; the authority in his audio; the efficiency of his attack, which likely all occurred within a 30M time frame with elaborate posing /staging below the bridge, the physicality needed to walk down the steep hill and subdue both girls (Libby is said to have fought back hard). That's also why many people believe two or more people were involved.

Most of what I have written is not info that has been made public. There is huge interest in the case with tons of rumors. Once you've read and heard enough about it you can sort the wheat from the chaff, for the most part.

Back to Danc.......DP is a local. If you're interested google Delphia reddit DP and you'll see his name mentioned in the thread. His rumored behavior that day was very odd, and a minority of internet watchers strongly believe he did it. My problem with him as a suspect is I've never seen a motive mentioned.

I'm sure I've seen his name. I'm didn't grow up in Delphi and don't know the principles, but the names are all familiar names to anyone in Carroll County.

Regarding the bridge, it's damn scary. I wouldn't go on it. I hate heights anyway and that thing scares the hell out of me. No way I'd walk out on it.

Interesting tidbit - Carroll County has a huge German-American population. I'm part of that myself. Most early settlers, my ancestors included, came in the early 1800s, after the area was opened up after Indiana became a state. But the German roots run strong. My grandfather was the first in his family to go to an English-speaking school in the 1890s.

So, with that background, during WWI, many Germans in America were suspected of having sympathy to Germany and the Kaiser. Carroll County was no exception and that bridge actually used to be guarded because it was feared someone would damage the bridge to hurt the war effort.

The irony of that is most of the Germans who settled there were German Baptists - a pacifist denomination! They avoided having anything to do with the war.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the bodies were posed in some way? I’ve seen that floated.

Also, in your opinion, what is the reasoning behind not revealing the cause of death?

Good info, thanks.

I wonder if it wasn’t actually some random serial killer with some sort of superficial connection to the area. It would be a one in a million coincidence if that’s the case but it’s not impossible.

That would explain the total lack of evidence pointing to a local culprit. It wouldn’t explain the apparent special attention paid to Libby, unless he just took a liking to her.

I wonder if there was any dna evidence. One would think there would have been because there’s ALWAYS a sexual motive involved in a crime like that.

Just a terrible but fascinating case. I’m afraid the more time goes by the less of a chance it actually gets solved.

Yes....LE has used words like staged and posed to describe the scene. I believe (this is not certain) that there were things brought to the scene (ie..dolls, stuffed animals). Some people believe BG had such items hidden under his coat....some think they can make them out. There is agreement that Libby was found mostly or totally nude. There is a dispute about Abby in that regard. The girls were essentially found together. Libby was partially covered with limbs and sticks, Abby was not. It appeared Abby had tried to run at some point as she lost a shoe in the creek bank. Libby apparently fought back hard. Libby's body was treated more harshly than Abby's. Witnesses said it looked to be "personal" with Libby.

If you're interested in the case, a good starting point are the reddit Delphi and reddit Libby & Abby internet sites. Also, there are many (50?) 'true crime' type sites that are following the case. There is a thread on reddit which discusses which are the most informative.

The random serial killer with incidental/old connection to the area theory is a very good one. It would explain why no single present local or one who was there in 2017 has been IDed. As you say, the argument against that is that the connection with the Anthony Shots account would be a huge coincidence, as someone on that account (only KAK and TK have been IDed to have access) was communicating with Libby on or very near that day.; and that the attack seemed to be personally centered around Libby, with Abby just being unlucky. That's why I personally think that BG is not TK or KAK, but someone who knew them and became interested in Libby when shown her photos. Certainly TK could have been waiting 'down the hill'. I don't think KAK was---too fat, too lazy, a perv but not a murderer, imo. The best alternative theory, in my view, is a local who personally knew Libby or the family and/or had a grudge against Libby or her father Derrick.

As for DNA.....this is one area where there has been very little leaking. The best indications are that there is some DNA, but that it is 'degraded' or otherwise suspect in some manner. The girls were not raped. There is no evidence that the killer(s) ejaculated on or around the bodies. There is one Indiana SK who would otherwise be a prime suspect who is said to have been 'cleared' by DNA testing. Many speculate that the DNA of KAK and /or TK does not match whatever LE has, and that's why they've never been arrested (that and the fact that they do not clearly look or sound like BG).

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I'm sure I've seen his name. I'm didn't grow up in Delphi and don't know the principles, but the names are all familiar names to anyone in Carroll County.

Regarding the bridge, it's damn scary. I wouldn't go on it. I hate heights anyway and that thing scares the hell out of me. No way I'd walk out on it.

Interesting tidbit - Carroll County has a huge German-American population. I'm part of that myself. Most early settlers, my ancestors included, came in the early 1800s, after the area was opened up after Indiana became a state. But the German roots run strong. My grandfather was the first in his family to go to an English-speaking school in the 1890s.

So, with that background, during WWI, many Germans in America were suspected of having sympathy to Germany and the Kaiser. Carroll County was no exception and that bridge actually used to be guarded because it was feared someone would damage the bridge to hurt the war effort.

The irony of that is most of the Germans who settled there were German Baptists - a pacifist denomination! They avoided having anything to do with the war.

Those German pacifists caused quite a problem for Abe Lincoln when they were drafted into the Union army. Those that could bought deferrals...others did not make the best soldiers. There was a lot of resentment against the German immigrant soldiers by the native Midwesterners due to the cultural and language differences, and their reluctance to fight for the Union (in some cases). The armies of the "West" were contemptuous of the A of the P due to the many Irish and German immigrants..........

It's easy to understand the immigrants' problem with serving. They left a country where they were forced into military service against their beliefs only to find them in the middle of a civil war they knew nothing about.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Yes....LE has used words like staged and posed to describe the scene. I believe (this is not certain) that there were things brought to the scene (ie..dolls, stuffed animals). Some people believe BG had such items hidden under his coat....some think they can make them out. There is agreement that Libby was found mostly or totally nude. There is a dispute about Abby in that regard. The girls were essentially found together. Libby was partially covered with limbs and sticks, Abby was not. It appeared Abby had tried to run at some point as she lost a shoe in the creek bank. Libby apparently fought back hard. Libby's body was treated more harshly than Abby's. Witnesses said it looked to be "personal" with Libby.

If you're interested in the case, a good starting point are the reddit Delphi and reddit Libby & Abby internet sites. Also, there are many (50?) 'true crime' type sites that are following the case. There is a thread on reddit which discusses which are the most informative.

The random serial killer with incidental/old connection to the area theory is a very good one. It would explain why no single present local or one who was there in 2017 has been IDed. As you say, the argument against that is that the connection with the Anthony Shots account would be a huge coincidence, as someone on that account (only KAK and TK have been IDed to have access) was communicating with Libby on or very near that day.; and that the attack seemed to be personally centered around Libby, with Abby just being unlucky. That's why I personally think that BG is not TK or KAK, but someone who knew them and became interested in Libby when shown her photos. Certainly TK could have been waiting 'down the hill'. I don't think KAK was---too fat, too lazy, a perv but not a murderer, imo. The best alternative theory, in my view, is a local who personally knew Libby or the family and/or had a grudge against Libby or her father Derrick.

As for DNA.....this is one area where there has been very little leaking. The best indications are that there is some DNA, but that it is 'degraded' or otherwise suspect in some manner. The girls were not raped. There is no evidence that the killer(s) ejaculated on or around the bodies. There is one Indiana SK who would otherwise be a prime suspect who is said to have been 'cleared' by DNA testing. Many speculate that the DNA of KAK and /or TK does not match whatever LE has, and that's why they've never been arrested (that and the fact that they do not clearly look or sound like BG).

One other thing.....LE at some point said BG was likely someone without significant legal history. The most logical explanation for that statement was that they at least have enough DNA to rule out the very worst of the worst likely suspects.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Is there any truth to the rumor that the bodies were posed in some way? I’ve seen that floated.

Also, in your opinion, what is the reasoning behind not revealing the cause of death?

Good info, thanks.

I wonder if it wasn’t actually some random serial killer with some sort of superficial connection to the area. It would be a one in a million coincidence if that’s the case but it’s not impossible.

That would explain the total lack of evidence pointing to a local culprit. It wouldn’t explain the apparent special attention paid to Libby, unless he just took a liking to her.

I wonder if there was any dna evidence. One would think there would have been because there’s ALWAYS a sexual motive involved in a crime like that.

Just a terrible but fascinating case. I’m afraid the more time goes by the less of a chance it actually gets solved.

As to reasoning of not listing the cause of death...........extremely flawed reasoning, imo. LE was concerned about making too much info public for a couple of reasons...to make the trial more difficult in case the murderer was found to be in possession of info only the murderer would know; and, to prevent false confessions or admissions. You have to keep in mind that there was near certainty that the case would be quickly resolved due to the tape and audio of BG.

The problem is......these goals could have been addressed by simply withholding details about the cause of death....for example, the location or # of the knife wounds, not the fact that a knife was the cause of death.

All of this information is now 'out there' anyway. The major effect of the policy has been to confuse the public, or make it indifferent, because LE has held back so much from public view.

As an example, let's say a young man in Peru IN comes home on 2/13/17 and his mother notices that he seems to have blood stains on his shirt, or some random person seeks him exiting a car. If the mother or stranger knew there had been a bloody murder 20 miles away on the same date they might have suspicions
they would otherwise let pass.

I saw one interview of a detective from Scotland Yard discussing this case. He said that in the hundreds of cases that he had handled or been around, SY ALWAYS released the cause of death. That there really is no logical reason not to, and that the cooperation of the public is critical in these cases. He said to get info you must first give info.

The thing is.........the initial LE agency is this case was the Carroll Co. SD. On the 1st or 2nd day of the case, the Sheriff was asked when was the last time his department had handled a case like this. His answer was "never". By the time ISP took over the case critical errors in judgment and tactics had been made, from which, imo, the case has never recovered.

 

[Hoopsdoc1978]

Yes....LE has used words like staged and posed to describe the scene. I believe (this is not certain) that there were things brought to the scene (ie..dolls, stuffed animals). Some people believe BG had such items hidden under his coat....some think they can make them out. There is agreement that Libby was found mostly or totally nude. There is a dispute about Abby in that regard. The girls were essentially found together. Libby was partially covered with limbs and sticks, Abby was not. It appeared Abby had tried to run at some point as she lost a shoe in the creek bank. Libby apparently fought back hard. Libby's body was treated more harshly than Abby's. Witnesses said it looked to be "personal" with Libby.

If you're interested in the case, a good starting point are the reddit Delphi and reddit Libby & Abby internet sites. Also, there are many (50?) 'true crime' type sites that are following the case. There is a thread on reddit which discusses which are the most informative.

The random serial killer with incidental/old connection to the area theory is a very good one. It would explain why no single present local or one who was there in 2017 has been IDed. As you say, the argument against that is that the connection with the Anthony Shots account would be a huge coincidence, as someone on that account (only KAK and TK have been IDed to have access) was communicating with Libby on or very near that day.; and that the attack seemed to be personally centered around Libby, with Abby just being unlucky. That's why I personally think that BG is not TK or KAK, but someone who knew them and became interested in Libby when shown her photos. Certainly TK could have been waiting 'down the hill'. I don't think KAK was---too fat, too lazy, a perv but not a murderer, imo. The best alternative theory, in my view, is a local who personally knew Libby or the family and/or had a grudge against Libby or her father Derrick.

As for DNA.....this is one area where there has been very little leaking. The best indications are that there is some DNA, but that it is 'degraded' or otherwise suspect in some manner. The girls were not raped. There is no evidence that the killer(s) ejaculated on or around the bodies. There is one Indiana SK who would otherwise be a prime suspect who is said to have been 'cleared' by DNA testing. Many speculate that the DNA of KAK and /or TK does not match whatever LE has, and that's why they've never been arrested (that and the fact that they do not clearly look or sound like BG).

Murders like this are ALWAYS ALWAYS sexual in nature. And it doesn’t necessarily have to involve penetration. It can be more about power and control. So the fact that they weren’t raped doesn’t change my mind on that.

So I find it very hard to believe that there wasn’t a shred of DNA evidence left by the killer. If none was found, I would tend to believe the police somehow botched the scene, unless it rained or something before they were found. There had to have been SOMETHING- a hair, a fingernail, SOMETHING had to have been left by the killer.

The idea that someone could have subdued, fought, and then murdered two girls without leaving so much as a hair behind strains credulity.

Or, the cops have DNA and just haven’t matched it to anyone yet. I hope that’s the case.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

Murders like this are ALWAYS ALWAYS sexual in nature. And it doesn’t necessarily have to involve penetration. It can be more about power and control. So the fact that they weren’t raped doesn’t change my mind on that.

So I find it very hard to believe that there wasn’t a shred of DNA evidence left by the killer. If none was found, I would tend to believe the police somehow botched the scene, unless it rained or something before they were found. There had to have been SOMETHING- a hair, a fingernail, SOMETHING had to have been left by the killer.

The idea that someone could have subdued, fought, and then murdered two girls without leaving so much as a hair behind strains credulity.

Or, the cops have DNA and just haven’t matched it to anyone yet. I hope that’s the case.

Yes, I agree with what you've said. It might be that Libby resisting so hard threw off the killer, or that he was concerned about being discovered. Also, Libby's body was nude, and Abby's was partially or totally nude. It has also been said they were posed in a sexually suggestive manner. I'm not certain whether or not that is accurate.

As far as the DNA.....there is some but not as much as would be expected? Or that it is degraded in some respect? There is some problem with it that has never been detailed to the public. To the point where some people have theorized that the killing was elsewhere and the bodies were later moved back to the scene. In this regard, remember that the original search on Monday aft and evening by 50-100 people turned up nothing, and the bodies weren't located until Tuesday. Your point about the scene not being secured is a good one. In fact, one POI for some people is a nearby land owner who participated in the search, and is said to have been one of two men who found the bodies. There were other unusual things going on with him. It is alleged by some that when he found he bodies he touched them. In any event by Tuesday there were hundreds of people stomping through the woods in a not very organized way trying to find the kids, who for all anyone knew might have still been alive.

 

[DANC]

Those German pacifists caused quite a problem for Abe Lincoln when they were drafted into the Union army. Those that could bought deferrals...others did not make the best soldiers. There was a lot of resentment against the German immigrant soldiers by the native Midwesterners due to the cultural and language differences, and their reluctance to fight for the Union (in some cases). The armies of the "West" were contemptuous of the A of the P due to the many Irish and German immigrants..........

It's easy to understand the immigrants' problem with serving. They left a country where they were forced into military service against their beliefs only to find them in the middle of a civil war they knew nothing about.,

Yes, many Germans moved west during the Revolution so they wouldn't be involved with the war between 'the English'. As I mentioned, the German Baptists (or 'Schwarzenau Brethren') were pacifists, similar to the Amish and Mennonites.

My family was among the first white settlers in the area in 1828, so they were the 'Native Midewesterners'. lol They moved to Ohio from Pennsylvania in 1805 and then to Indiana when land opened up there. Some moved further west, but my branch stuck around.

My dad's side of the family moved to Clinton County later - in 1853. But they came through Virginia, stopping for a couple decades in Tennessee. Supposedly my great-grandfather remembered following the hogs on the hike up to Indiana.

Regarding the killings, i would bet the police have a pretty good idea who did it, but can't prove it. There's no way it could have been some random stranger passing through town. I think the police are just waiting for the guy(s) to expose themselves somehow, maybe through some internet exchange or approaching other underage girls.

 

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

I follow that case. Heard about it on the news here the night they went missing. I have a daughter, so its very scary stuff. And I used to fish another Deer Creek down at Cannelton, Indiana off the Ohio. Got confused because there is no Delphi down there and had to look it all up to understand.

Lost the ability to tell fact from fiction a long time ago - too many rumors and speculations.

At first, because the FBI put out a BOLO on electronic billboards in 48 states, I thought “serial killer the FBI recognized by the scene and MO.” But then the internet filled up with zillions of supposed “facts” - none confirmed - and dozens of alleged “persons of interest.” YouTube “sleuths” literally making stuff up for clicks and donations.

The recent Anthony Shots account stuff was at least good for rounding up pedophiles, but i don’t know if it will solve the murders. It still doesn't put either that Dad or son at the bridge on the day of the killings. And i have no idea if anybody else could have used that account or name to contact anybody. If yes, any of those creeps could have done it.

I hope they solve it soon, and catch all the pedophiles they can. But so far, VERY few confirmed facts. Mostly its just internet rumors and guesses.