Hunter is far far away from any decision about playing next season

[cshartle123]

I have to go with snarling cakes on this one. If CAM didn't know with reasonable certainty that Hunter is going to be back (apparently not), I find it surprisingly reckless for CAM not to have gone hard after one or more of the 15 or so wing players that were available on the grad market that could have been contributors to this team. A majority of the BT teams were in that market this year......I know we got Brunk but he is not enough for our situation, imo

Also, I don't agree with cake's concerns about Phinisee and Thompson, but he left off a couple of other huge concerns: Davis' ongoing injury issues; Smith's on-going attitude issues.

When you look at our roster for next year, there are only 6 players that are relatively 'risk-free'---Phinisee; Durham; TJD; Thompson; Brunk; Franklin. And I'm being an optimistic here, given Thompson's injury issues, and Franklin being a true freshman.

That leaves 5 with serious ?s--Anderson (talent/awareness); Green & Smith (attitude); Davis & Hunter (health/injuries). No one knows what we are get out of any of these 5 players.

So CAM is worried how this group of mediocre players (overall), some with questionable attitudes, others will other issues, will react to the addition of another wing who could immediately contribute? While 40 other teams with better rosters have no hesitation? Yikes.

I don’t think either of you are insane to have questions. I just think most of them will be answered by the upgrades to our front court. For example, I think Smith will play much better when he can guard and be guarded by a 2/3 instead of a 4/5. I think we will see a better version of Green playing the one and two with the increase of Phinisee’s role as a ball handler. Davis has a chance to be the most efficient big in the conference at 25 minutes a game with Brunk off the bench. It’s just speculation, but I am not unhappy with our roster. Nearly our entire team is made up of four stars out of high school. This also does not account for the possibility of someone like Race breaking out. This is his third season with the program.

 

[chaboom]

There's a lot of year-to-year improvement needed if we are going to avoid being on the bubble again... for the NIT! Our half-court offense was terrible, coupled with very weak 3 point shooting, mid-range shooting and foul shooting. Basketball is a simple game that often becomes confusing with strategy, stats and analytics. There's really only one stat that matters: the team able to put the ball through the hoop the most times wins.

 

[cshartle123]

did you know muniru is his first name? muniru bawa. only an idiot like crean could eff that up

I didn’t know that, but he isn’t the only one that messed that up.

https://247sports.com/player/bawa-muniru-59569/

 

[bailey777]

10 healthy guys on Scholarship. A lot of that is due to guys this spring not wanting to play here.

Well really 9 guys. Davis seems to get injured all the time so I do not really think you can count on him as healthy.

 

[bailey777]

You're allowed to recruit better players than Priller. Archie is an idiot if his plan was to recruit no wing players this year. Assuming he is not an idiot (which is what I think), he screwed up. I'm not sure why it's that difficult to admit for some fans.

I think he went all in on Brooks and lost out. I do think fans need to quit banking on Hunter starting and being this major force though. And even if he can play after missing a whole year I think 10-15 minutes a game would be a big step. All I can say is Archie better hope we sustain no more injuries given he added noboby else this spring.

 

[bailey777]

Franklin is a contingency plan for Hunter.

Huh? That is first I have heard of that.

 

[cshartle123]

Huh? That is first I have heard of that.

My point was that Franklin will be forced to play early if Hunter can’t go.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

I don’t think either of you are insane to have questions. I just think most of them will be answered by the upgrades to our front court. For example, I think Smith will play much better when he can guard and be guarded by a 2/3 instead of a 4/5. I think we will see a better version of Green playing the one and two with the increase of Phinisee’s role as a ball handler. Davis has a chance to be the most efficient big in the conference at 25 minutes a game with Brunk off the bench. It’s just speculation, but I am not unhappy with our roster. Nearly our entire team is made up of four stars out of high school. This also does not account for the possibility of someone like Race breaking out. This is his third season with the program.

Well....I'd like to be the optimist......just can't be at this point. I think you've really got your rose-colored glasses on.

For us to have a relatively good team this year, a lot of things have to go right and not much can go wrong.

Most will agree that Smith & Green have demonstrated crap attitudes for two full years. What is the chance that either or both will have attitude adjustments in '19? Let's say 50% for each.

Now, what is the chance that Hunter can contribute in any meaningful way? Who knows, but lets say 50%.

How about Davis going most/all of the year without major injury issues? Let's say 50%

Now the same question for Thompson---I'll say 70%

Using those #s, the chance that all that happens is 4.4%.

Now, imo all of this has to happen for us to be top 4-5 in the BT, because there's not much upside here. Thompson won't be a 'break-out' player-at best, he could be a solid role player. Anderson, imo, won't contribute. TJD will likely be a good, but not great freshman. Durham's mediocre. Green will never alter his game such that he eliminates stupid shots, even if he doesn't sulk.

I'm looking at this year as one that we somehow have to get through without a collapse. It sucks to have that view this time of year, but I can't shake it.

 

[bailey777]

My point was that Franklin will be forced to play early if Hunter can’t go.

Obviously as we do not have many bodies and if we get injuries like last yar we will be plaing managers at some point.

 

[bailey777]

Well....I'd like to be the optimist......just can't be at this point. I think you've really got your rose-colored glasses on.

For us to have a relatively good team this year, a lot of things have to go right and not much can go wrong.

Most will agree that Smith & Green have demonstrated crap attitudes for two full years. What is the chance that either or both will have attitude adjustments in '19? Let's say 50% for each.

Now, what is the chance that Hunter can contribute in any meaningful way? Who knows, but lets say 50%.

How about Davis going most/all of the year without major injury issues? Let's say 50%

Now the same question for Thompson---I'll say 70%

Using those #s, the chance that all that happens is 4.4%.

Now, imo all of this has to happen for us to be top 4-5 in the BT, because there's not much upside here. Thompson won't be a 'break-out' player-at best, he could be a solid role player. Anderson, imo, won't contribute. TJD will likely be a good, but not great freshman. Durham's mediocre. Green will never alter his game such that he eliminates stupid shots, even if he doesn't sulk.

I'm looking at this year as one that we somehow have to get through without a collapse. It sucks to have that view this time of year, but I can't shake it.

I think making the NCAA is would be a major accomplishment give what we have on the roster and the injury issues. Like you said Thompson is coming off a major injury and Davis who know is he can stay healthy. Add in the Hunter situation and we could be down to 8 players in a hurry. Archie is going to have to do the coaching job of his life to get this team in the tourney imo.


I could see going into a season with 11 players if they were all healthy but given our injury issues it is still baffling to me. To me this feels like Creans third year and it is hard to be optimistic. Maybe that it a good thing so we are not let down.

 

[HoosiersChamps]

The objective is to get them on your team. He didn't do that, so he didn't address the needs. You don't get a trophy for trying.

I guess that you and I have a different definition of what addressing needs are. He saw the need for wings and he addressed the issue. Getting the desired result after addressing the need is another case entirely.

 

[cshartle123]

Well....I'd like to be the optimist......just can't be at this point. I think you've really got your rose-colored glasses on.

For us to have a relatively good team this year, a lot of things have to go right and not much can go wrong.

Most will agree that Smith & Green have demonstrated crap attitudes for two full years. What is the chance that either or both will have attitude adjustments in '19? Let's say 50% for each.

Now, what is the chance that Hunter can contribute in any meaningful way? Who knows, but lets say 50%.

How about Davis going most/all of the year without major injury issues? Let's say 50%

Now the same question for Thompson---I'll say 70%

Using those #s, the chance that all that happens is 4.4%.

Now, imo all of this has to happen for us to be top 4-5 in the BT, because there's not much upside here. Thompson won't be a 'break-out' player-at best, he could be a solid role player. Anderson, imo, won't contribute. TJD will likely be a good, but not great freshman. Durham's mediocre. Green will never alter his game such that he eliminates stupid shots, even if he doesn't sulk.

I'm looking at this year as one that we somehow have to get through without a collapse. It sucks to have that view this time of year, but I can't shake it.

That’s a fair analysis, but I disagree with your premise that everything has to go right to finish 4-5 in the conference. Our risk is better mitigated than the last two years. We finished 6th and 9th the last two years starting McSwain (6’6”) and Morgan (6’7”) at center and Smith (6’7”) at PF. Regardless of the reason, that was a ridiculously poor roster for the Big Ten. Archie won a lot of games considering. Further, they didn’t have viable backups. We will have ten players (I’m excluding Hunter) playing their natural positions with a backup at every position. That can’t be understated. Archie still has to make them into winners, but he actually has a depth chart rather than just playing the best five players on the team.

 

[snarlcakes]

I have to go with snarling cakes on this one. If CAM didn't know with reasonable certainty that Hunter is going to be back (apparently not), I find it surprisingly reckless for CAM not to have gone hard after one or more of the 15 or so wing players that were available on the grad market that could have been contributors to this team. A majority of the BT teams were in that market this year......I know we got Brunk but he is not enough for our situation, imo

Also, I don't agree with cake's concerns about Phinisee and Thompson, but he left off a couple of other huge concerns: Davis' ongoing injury issues; Smith's on-going attitude issues.

When you look at our roster for next year, there are only 6 players that are relatively 'risk-free'---Phinisee; Durham; TJD; Thompson; Brunk; Franklin. And I'm being an optimistic here, given Thompson's injury issues, and Franklin being a true freshman.

That leaves 5 with serious ?s--Anderson (talent/awareness); Green & Smith (attitude); Davis & Hunter (health/injuries). No one knows what we are get out of any of these 5 players.

So CAM is worried how this group of mediocre players (overall), some with questionable attitudes, others will other issues, will react to the addition of another wing who could immediately contribute? While 40 other teams with better rosters have no hesitation? Yikes.

Good post. We probably don’t disagree that much on Phin. I just disagreed with the the Yogi hype. I think by the time he is a senior he could be an all conference player.

 

[ufo33]

Smith is going to have to improve his shooting and accept his role or sit. It is difficult to play 4 against 5 offensively.

I think he is right. If we get Jerome Hunter back, we are two deep in every position.

Green / Phinisee
Durham / Hunter
Smith / Anderson
TJD / Thompson
Davis / Brunk

What are your objections?

Phinisee/Franklin/Vijay
Green/Durham/Franklin
Hunter/Anderson/Smith
TJD/Race
Brunk/DeRon (regulate Davis' minutes off the bench so he can be healthy for the entire season)

 

[TR32]

They have to be better than the sum of their parts to be better than last season. It is a formidable challenge, but considering last year's injuries were nearly unprecedented, I think it is reasonable to expect more healthy minutes at least.

I am very worried about scoring though. No go-to scorers to be seen and guys like Thompson and Anderson who have barely scored a basket may be asked to play a decent amount.

 

[iubud]

You're allowed to recruit better players than Priller. Archie is an idiot if his plan was to recruit no wing players this year. Assuming he is not an idiot (which is what I think), he screwed up. I'm not sure why it's that difficult to admit for some fans.

Archie is fine going with the 11 players he has and turn focus on 2020. With what is left for 2019, this makes sense. He said there would be interest if a late transfer becomes available.

He mentioned Damezi and Hunter at the 3. If they don't work out, we will put a guard out there or try Smith, Thompson or someone else. He specifically mentioned Thompson defending on the perimeter. He has seen more of him than we have.

 

[bailey777]

Phinisee/Franklin
Green/Durham
Hunter/Anderson/Smith
TJD/Race
DeRon/Brunk

So Anderson is the backup to Hunter who may not play? Yikes.

 

[mushroomgod_1]

So Anderson is the backup to Hunter who may not play? Yikes.

I fixed it:

Phinisee/Green
Durham/Green/Franklin
Hunter(?)/Smith
TJD/Race
Davis/Brunk

 

[TommyCracker]

I fixed it:

Phinisee/Green
Durham/Green/Franklin
Hunter(?)/Smith
TJD/Race
Davis/Brunk

Green is going to play 30 to 35 minutes a game as a senior.

Archie loves Durham and he'll probably be one of the captains (per both Morgan and McRoberts podcasts).

I think we're going to see a lot of a three guard offense...so a lot of Phin, Green and Durham.

I believe the post is manned mainly by a Davis/Brunk combo.

That leaves one position between TJD, Thompson, Smith, Hunter and Anderson.

Last year we were decimated by injuries, particularly in the front court and still Cliff, Jake and Anderson were not ready to step in and contribute other than practice bodies. Two of them left for more playing time, supposedly Jake was a surprise per Snow and the staff tried to convince him to stay.

Jake is your one extra scholly.

He went after Brooks, hard, and lost him to Kentucky. Then he tried for Quinones, Harris and Watford but didn't get them. I'm cool with people ripping on him for that if they want.

Rumor is he wasn't allowed to go after a specific grad transfer because IU wouldn't admit them or something.

Rumor is he kicked the tires on Windam but passed as he probably wasn't going to be an instant impact kid next year anyway.

So in his own words, he's looking to bring in 3 or 4 next year.

Tim Miles on podcast on the brink said the coaching community believes 13 schollies are to much and it leads to a lot of transfers.

Jay Wright supposedly only carries 11 scholarship players. Same does Mack.

This OMG we don't have 13 schollies filled is at least entertaining to read, but other than practice bodies it's wasted energy.

I mean everyone knows how critical Magnus Pelkowski and Jeff Olyphant were to our 87 team. We don't get that 5th banner without them!!

 

[all4iu76]

You're allowed to recruit better players than Priller. Archie is an idiot if his plan was to recruit no wing players this year. Assuming he is not an idiot (which is what I think), he screwed up. I'm not sure why it's that difficult to admit for some fans.

Making sure I understand you. You think Archie is an idiot?

 

[all4iu76]

Haven't you heard? Players are not allowed to improve on any aspect of their games from year to year. Players never get better, never become more comfortable in a system, never understand offensive and defensive schemes any deeper, never get stronger or faster or smarter, never get more in synch with the coach, never improve their skills. They all stay the same.

Finally someone that actually understands where basketball improvement comes from. I know everyone loves game changing players (likely ranked 1-15 which is why these players are expensive to bring in). Players improving from one year to the next is where most improvement, scoring comes from.

A reasonable expectation that we stay somewhat healthy will have this kind of team.

PG Rob
SG Green/Al/Franklin
SF Hunter will start if available/ Al/ Anderson
PF TJD/Race/Smith
C Brunk and Davis off the bench.

Rob, Green, Hunter, TJD and Brunk are actually a very competitive starting team defensively and offensively. The post and 4 positions are strong. PG backup is our weak link.
I'm glad Archie isn't just bringing in players regardless if they fit long term. Grad transfers are going to be hard for IU to get in.

 

[snarlcakes]

Making sure I understand you. You think Archie is an idiot?

Reread it. You missed a sentence.

 

[snarlcakes]

Green is going to play 30 to 35 minutes a game as a senior.

Archie loves Durham and he'll probably be one of the captains (per both Morgan and McRoberts podcasts).

I think we're going to see a lot of a three guard offense...so a lot of Phin, Green and Durham.

I believe the post is manned mainly by a Davis/Brunk combo.

That leaves one position between TJD, Thompson, Smith, Hunter and Anderson.

Last year we were decimated by injuries, particularly in the front court and still Cliff, Jake and Anderson were not ready to step in and contribute other than practice bodies. Two of them left for more playing time, supposedly Jake was a surprise per Snow and the staff tried to convince him to stay.

Jake is your one extra scholly.

He went after Brooks, hard, and lost him to Kentucky. Then he tried for Quinones, Harris and Watford but didn't get them. I'm cool with people ripping on him for that if they want.

Rumor is he wasn't allowed to go after a specific grad transfer because IU wouldn't admit them or something.

Rumor is he kicked the tires on Windam but passed as he probably wasn't going to be an instant impact kid next year anyway.

So in his own words, he's looking to bring in 3 or 4 next year.

Tim Miles on podcast on the brink said the coaching community believes 13 schollies are to much and it leads to a lot of transfers.

Jay Wright supposedly only carries 11 scholarship players. Same does Mack.

This OMG we don't have 13 schollies filled is at least entertaining to read, but other than practice bodies it's wasted energy.

I mean everyone knows how critical Magnus Pelkowski and Jeff Olyphant were to our 87 team. We don't get that 5th banner without them!!

Considering the 11 we have aren’t that talented and 3 of them have a history of injury issues, perhaps we should have used all 13 of them this year?

 

[Baller23Boogie]

Why fill scholarships just to fill scholarships with players that arent worthy though?

What do we need? Shooting, correct? There's not a whole lot of players left that fit the bill so why do you offer a player that we're locked into for the next four years that can't shoot? We've got enough of those guys on the roster already. Do we do it because some one might be get? Well, that's stupid. Should I not drive my car today because I might get in a wreck? Archie has a history of not filling scholarships so why should we be surprised that this is happening now? I mean, some people are literally saying we need to use all our scholarship because we had injuries last year. Our guys are allowed to improve and get stronger, which in theory, should decrease the likelihood of injuries.

Some of you sound like Crean giving out scholarships, something most of the board complained about.

 

[TommyCracker]

Considering the 11 we have aren’t that talented and 3 of them have a history of injury issues, perhaps we should have used all 13 of them this year?

He went after so called talented players (Brooks, Quinones, Harris and Watford) and they chose elsewhere. Maybe he should have kidnapped them?

And yes if you want to panic and complain about him missing on those 4 I'm not going to say much other than my typical rankings are guidelines...not laws quip, but they were missed.

What's the point of bringing in a Wyndam or another kid that probably isn't an impactful player next year anyway out of desperation? Like I said we had all kinds of injury issues and Cliff, Jake and Damezi still weren't ready to contribute.

And he did bring in a grad transfer...Brunk. We now for the first time have big ten bulk. No more Morgan and Smith trying to defend 6'10" plus dudes anymore. He actually joked about it on the podcast saying how much it wore him down defending big ten posts.

Plus if we give those two scholarships to walk ons for this season....they count against our APR score (for the better since Vijay is supposedly a standout student).

Not sure if you are aware but we're not out of the woods APR wise and losing Cliff hurts that as he was an outstanding student also.

UCLA is supposedly on a serious brink of post season suspensions from it's APR under Steve.

Are we winning a Natty...no. Are we winning the big ten...no. Are we a better balanced, more experienced and older team which should be better than last year...I think so.

Green has the potential to be a 2nd/3rd team all conference like Nate Mason. TJD has the potential to be the conference FOY.

Hopefully we'll see a good growth leap from Rob and Justin along with Race and Damezi becoming solid rotation guys (both Morgan and McRoberts are really high on Anderson).

Davis just needs to be able to play more minutes and Brunk just needs to do what he's done so far...score efficiently in the post and bring energy and bulk.

If Hunter plays that would be great to have a lengthy 6'7" wing that is supposedly psycho competitive. If he can really play than the ceiling of this team goes up significantly.

Remember he redshirted so he's technically part of a three man class of TJD, Hunter and Franklin.

That's a pretty balanced class (a front court guy, a wing and a backcourt guy).

 

[all4iu76]

Reread it. You missed a sentence.

I didn't miss it, just wasn't sure what you meant by it, I was trying to sort out the sentence.

 

[snarlcakes]

I didn't miss it, just wasn't sure what you meant by it, I was trying to sort out the sentence.

Gotcha. I worded it poorly.

 

[ufo33]

Finally someone that actually understands where basketball improvement comes from. I know everyone loves game changing players (likely ranked 1-15 which is why these players are expensive to bring in). Players improving from one year to the next is where most improvement, scoring comes from.

A reasonable expectation that we stay somewhat healthy will have this kind of team.

PG Rob
SG Green/Al/Franklin
SF Hunter will start if available/ Al/ Anderson
PF TJD/Race/Smith
C Brunk and Davis off the bench.

Rob, Green, Hunter, TJD and Brunk are actually a very competitive starting team defensively and offensively. The post and 4 positions are strong. PG backup is our weak link.
I'm glad Archie isn't just bringing in players regardless if they fit long term. Grad transfers are going to be hard for IU to get in.

PG. Phinisee/Franklin/Vijay

 

[snarlcakes]

And yes if you want to panic and complain about him missing on those 4 I'm not going to say much other than my typical rankings are guidelines...not laws quip, but they were missed.

Are we winning a Natty...no. Are we winning the big ten...no. Are we a better balanced, more experienced and older team which should be better than last year...I think so.

Green has the potential to be a 2nd/3rd team all conference like Nate Mason. TJD has the potential to be the conference FOY.

Hopefully we'll see a good growth leap from Rob and Justin along with Race and Damezi becoming solid rotation guys (both Morgan and McRoberts are really high on Anderson).

Remember he redshirted so he's technically part of a three man class of TJD, Hunter and Franklin.

That's a pretty balanced class (a front court guy, a wing and a backcourt guy).

I'm not panicking about anything. I'm just being objective and pointing out Archie screwed up this year with recruiting. I personally don't care why it happened. People are trying to put lip stick on a pig with Archie's 11 man roster comments. If Archie was happy with the roster he wouldn't have continued to try and recruit more players. I don't know why people can't just admit he screwed up.

Green isn't an all conference player. He's a streaky guard who is extremely inconsistent. I agree with you on TJD. I don't see it with Anderson. He couldn't even get meaningful minutes when Green (suspended), Phin, McRoberts were injured. I don't see him contributing that much, next year.

If you move Hunter to 2019 class, it makes the 2018 class extremely weak. You have Phin, who should be solid, and Anderson who looks like a role player at best.

I think next year is going to be similar to the first two years. Another bubble team that is good on defense and struggles to score enough points to be a good team.

 

[Al Bino]

I'm not panicking about anything. I'm just being objective and pointing out Archie screwed up this year with recruiting. I personally don't care why it happened. People are trying to put lip stick on a pig with Archie's 11 man roster comments. If Archie was happy with the roster he wouldn't have continued to try and recruit more players. I don't know why people can't just admit he screwed up.

How did Archie screw up?

 

[TommyCracker]

I'm not panicking about anything. I'm just being objective and pointing out Archie screwed up this year with recruiting. I personally don't care why it happened. People are trying to put lip stick on a pig with Archie's 11 man roster comments. If Archie was happy with the roster he wouldn't have continued to try and recruit more players. I don't know why people can't just admit he screwed up.

Green isn't an all conference player. He's a streaky guard who is extremely inconsistent. I agree with you on TJD. I don't see it with Anderson. He couldn't even get meaningful minutes when Green (suspended), Phin, McRoberts were injured. I don't see him contributing that much, next year.

If you move Hunter to 2019 class, it makes the 2018 class extremely weak. You have Phin, who should be solid, and Anderson who looks like a role player at best.

I think next year is going to be similar to the first two years. Another bubble team that is good on defense and struggles to score enough points to be a good team.

Yeah I'm by no means advocating Anderson being a big contributor based on what I saw last year. Other than having some dog/goon in him (that I liked) he was pretty overwhelmed and his shot is super flat.

But both Morgan and McRob said they were really high on him as a player so there's that.

Oh and technically Race is in that 2018 class (where we was a four star prospect). So we're left with again a backcourt guy (Phin), a wing (Anderson) and a front court guy (Thompson).

That's pretty good balance for a class IMO.

In regards to Green, he's never gotten the minutes that he's going to get this upcoming season come hell or high water. I expect his shooting to be a tad worse (like 38% from 3) but his volume to be up so his overall ppg/points are around the 14/15 mark similar to Rob Johnson.

We'll see.

 

[snarlcakes]

I don’t think either of you are insane to have questions. I just think most of them will be answered by the upgrades to our front court. For example, I think Smith will play much better when he can guard and be guarded by a 2/3 instead of a 4/5. I think we will see a better version of Green playing the one and two with the increase of Phinisee’s role as a ball handler. Davis has a chance to be the most efficient big in the conference at 25 minutes a game with Brunk off the bench. It’s just speculation, but I am not unhappy with our roster. Nearly our entire team is made up of four stars out of high school. This also does not account for the possibility of someone like Race breaking out. This is his third season with the program.

I enjoy your posts. We just disagree with what the future looks like. Our guard play isn’t going to be good enough to be a top 4 or 5 team in the B10.