How relevant is Alford's time at Iowa?

[Let 'er Fly]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

 

[RBB89]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

Iowa fired Tom Davis after going to the sweet 16 because they thought they'd peaked under him...they went the other way under Alford. Raveling and Olson had success there too.

UCLA went 15-17 last year, in Steve's 3rd year. It was like their 4th losing season since 1948.

 

[Paterfamilias]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

It's super-duper relevant. In fact nothing that transpires throughout the rest of time compares to the relevance of Iowa. Remember when the kid from Northwestern St. hit the corner jumper at the buzzer to knock off Iowa and put an x on my bracket... that's all you need to know about Steve Alford's coaching ability.

 

[Let 'er Fly]

Iowa fired Tom Davis after going to the sweet 16 because they thought they'd peaked under him...they went the other way under Alford. Raveling and Olson had success there too.

UCLA went 15-17 last year, in Steve's 3rd year. It was like their 4th losing season since 1948.

I do agree that Iowa had better success in the pre-Alford years (when Wisky and MSU were quite weak).
- Raveling: finished bottom half of B1G 2/3 of the time. 0 Top 4 B1G Finishes. 0 S16. Is that success?
- Olsen: bottom half of B1G only 2/9 times. 0 outright B1G titles. 6/9 Top 4 (so that was indeed pretty solid). 2 S16 out of 9 years. I agree Olsen was a great coach. Decent success at Iowa (better than Alford)…but did you see what this stud coach did at Arizona? 17/23 Top 1 or 2 finishes in PAC. S16 11/23. Olsen was a stud at Az and OK at Iowa.
- Davis: bottom half only 3/13 times. 0 outright B1G titles. 7/13 Top 4 (pretty solid). 3/13 S16 (meh). Dr. Tom should not have been fired, but he left the cupboard bare...
- Alford: botton half (5/8) , 0 B1G titles, 3/8 top 4, 0 S16 (weak).
- Lickliter. bottom half all 3 years. No tourney appearances.
- Fran: bottom half 2/7 (and practically 4/7 w/ 2 6th place finishes). 0 B1G titles, 2/7 top 4. 0 S16.

Here are facts at UCLA:
Yep, not many losing seasons at UCLA. But, the two previous coaches had losing seasons as well. Howland had two, and I believe he was a great coach. Alford has been to s16 75% of the time at UCLA - not bad. Better than Howland and Harrick (who cheated), but Lavin was impressive for S16.

Does Steve need to get further in Dance to solidify his ability - yes. Is he clearly a mediocre coach like many claim? I don't think you can make that claim w/ a straight face. Is he clearly an outstanding coach? That too, there is no evidence to fully support that either. I think the jury is out...

 

[Let 'er Fly]

It's super-duper relevant. In fact nothing that transpires throughout the rest of time compares to the relevance of Iowa. Remember when the kid from Northwestern St. hit the corner jumper at the buzzer to knock off Iowa and put an x on my bracket... that's all you need to know about Steve Alford's coaching ability.

Izzo, Coach K, RMK, Self, Roy Williams would argue w/ that analysis.

 

[wi_hoosier]

It's super-duper relevant. In fact nothing that transpires throughout the rest of time compares to the relevance of Iowa. Remember when the kid from Northwestern St. hit the corner jumper at the buzzer to knock off Iowa and put an x on my bracket... that's all you need to know about Steve Alford's coaching ability.

I had forgotten about that... but I do remember CBK's loss to Cleveland St. in '86. Well, even his loss to Richmond in 88 and the 20 point drumming by Pepperdine in 2000...

Just saying.

 

[wi_hoosier]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

When I think about who I want IU to hire, this is the same argument that I go round and round about with myself. On one hand I think who can win at Iowa, he did pretty decent there. On the other hand I think, he didn't do as well as Olson or Davis. Maybe it was different times, not sure. Maybe the Pierce thing hurt his recruiting ability, not sure.

Ultimately I feel there is too many ?s with Alford. Put on top of it that he is an "IU favorite son," if he doesn't win here what would that do to the fan base?

Personally, I wanted them to hire S.Miller 9 years a go. Today i will be excited with his brother. Excited with even Marshall or Donovan. With Steve, it would be a more wait and see contentment.

 

[hurryin76hoosier]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

He gets a free pass for whatever the eff he wants because hes Stevie shoot a three pointer. Give him a lifetime contract.

 

[abraxis]

I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

He probably would be about as good as any other coach hired, except Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan. The thing with Alford, if he's good enough for us, we would be good enough for him and we wouldn't have to worry about him jumping ship after success for a better gig. He would be a "lifer". I do wish he had a more vibrant personality. He seems pretty dry and all "B" but I could be wrong to some extent.

 

[T.M.P.]

He probably would be about as good as any other coach hired, except Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan.

lol..

 

[jaypay23]

Iowa fired Tom Davis after going to the sweet 16 because they thought they'd peaked under him...they went the other way under Alford. Raveling and Olson had success there too.

UCLA went 15-17 last year, in Steve's 3rd year. It was like their 4th losing season since 1948.

Your hate for Alford is ridiculous. There is a handful of guys I want in front of Alford as well. But you don't see me bashing any of the candidates because I don't want them.

 

[JonesIndiana]

That seems like a tough place to have sustained bball success in today's environment (other solid B1G programs) and was arguably tougher when Alford was at Iowa bc had to compete against Knight and Keady and illinois had a much better program then. Lickliter was a flop there and McCaffrey (who is a solid coach but somewhat nutty) is having less success than Alford. Alford has had success at all of the other schools he coached at when comparing relative to the coaches that came before and after. (Yes, UCLA was pretty good under Wooden...different era, and solid under Howland.). So, I do think it is hard to gauge how good/mediocre Alford is based on lack of rousing success at Iowa. If Iowa was a consistently stellar program, then I would say pass on Alford. Was Self a consistent stud at Illinois like he is at Kansas?

Coach K never reached S16 with Army, etc. I'm not saying Alford is the guy...I just have a hard time really say how good/mediocre he is.

Alford coached one season head to head with Knight.

The Big Ten during Alford's days was a joke to compared to what it has been the last 9 years. One year, the conference sent THREE teams to the tournament. In 2003-4, the Big Ten was rated 10th best and yet that year Alford could only finish 4th. Tenth best. During the Crean era, the Big Ten was first, second or third every year but one.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf?date=2004-04-06

"Solid under Howland"? Three straight Final Fours is solid? Mind you, Alford took over a defending Pac 12 champion from Howland. Solid. Indeed.

Alford was mediocre. Period.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Here are facts at UCLA:
Yep, not many losing seasons at UCLA. But, the two previous coaches had losing seasons as well. Howland had two, and I believe he was a great coach. Alford has been to s16 75% of the time at UCLA - not bad. Better than Howland and Harrick (who cheated), but Lavin was impressive for S16.

Howland went to three straight Final Fours, are you really comparing that as a lesser achievement to Alford's 3 out of 4 Sweet 16's?

 

[hoosier2112]

I had forgotten about that... but I do remember CBK's loss to Cleveland St. in '86. Well, even his loss to Richmond in 88 and the 20 point drumming by Pepperdine in 2000...

Just saying.

Just for the record, Cleveland State was, probably without question, the greatest 14 seed in the history of the tournament, and with the advanced metrics around today, that distinction is very unlikely to be challenged. They were #27 in Sagarin going into the tournament. Losses to Missouri, Colorado, and St John's would strengthen your case more than Cleveland State.

 

[hondo314]

He probably would be about as good as any other coach hired, except Brad Stevens and Billy Donovan. The thing with Alford, if he's good enough for us, we would be good enough for him and we wouldn't have to worry about him jumping ship after success for a better gig. He would be a "lifer". I do wish he had a more vibrant personality. He seems pretty dry and all "B" but I could be wrong to some extent.

i don't understand this fear of a good coach coming here and jumping

of the up and comers on our imaginary list, i bet quite a few go on to do better things than Alford

just don't get it, but there are lot of things i don't get lol

 

[hondo314]

Your hate for Alford is ridiculous. There is a handful of guys I want in front of Alford as well. But you don't see me bashing any of the candidates because I don't want them.

hate?

never won 3 games in a single ncaa

pierre pierce

calling a duck a duck means we hate ducks?

 

[T.M.P.]

Just for the record, Cleveland State was, probably without question, the greatest 14 seed in the history of the tournament, and with the advanced metrics around today, that distinction is very unlikely to be challenged. They were #27 in Sagarin going into the tournament. Losses to Missouri, Colorado, and St John's would strengthen your case more than Cleveland State.

Cleveland State Crackheads.. both the head coach and the PG were known to frequent crack houses..

 

[wi_hoosier]

Just for the record, Cleveland State was, probably without question, the greatest 14 seed in the history of the tournament, and with the advanced metrics around today, that distinction is very unlikely to be challenged. They were #27 in Sagarin going into the tournament. Losses to Missouri, Colorado, and St John's would strengthen your case more than Cleveland State.

The point was, CBK, Izzo, K, Self, Cal have all been upset in games before. One game does not determine the acumen of a Coach.

 

[Let 'er Fly]

Alford coached one season head to head with Knight.

The Big Ten during Alford's days was a joke to compared to what it has been the last 9 years. One year, the conference sent THREE teams to the tournament. In 2003-4, the Big Ten was rated 10th best and yet that year Alford could only finish 4th. Tenth best. During the Crean era, the Big Ten was first, second or third every year but one.

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-basketball/rpi-ranking/rpi-rating-by-conf?date=2004-04-06

"Solid under Howland"? Three straight Final Fours is solid? Mind you, Alford took over a defending Pac 12 champion from Howland. Solid. Indeed.

Alford was mediocre. Period.

Thanks for those points.
Good point on Knight. IU was starting to slide then...but Davis did have Knights players for 3 years under your Howland logic.
I will give you B1G was overall better than under Alford, but your resource is faulty. when the resource had Conf USA and Colonial higher than B1G, I laughed. Check out Sagarin (IU grad) for better stats. The average under TC was 3.0; the average under SA was 3.5. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin-archive.htm#hoop (I don't think you are arguing that TC got a raw deal b/c the conference was dominant, correct? IU did finish 1st in 2012 when B1G was rated first (great season and great job by Crean), but they finished 8th and 9th in the other 2 years B1G was rated first.)

On Howland (regarding your comment below), I did say I thought he was a great coach. 3 F4s in a row are pretty good. He did a great job w/ Westbrook, Collinson, Love, etc. But, it's odd that he did not get to the S16 any of his other 7 years. So, Alford appears to be a bit more consistent than Howland, but I agree that I would take Howland over Alford in terms of success. That is why I said the jury is out on Alford. I threw a lot of stuff at you so I apologize for confusing you.

Are we really using the argument that it's someone else's players? I could see if Alford was not recruiting at all, but he has been getting pretty good recruits. It's interesting that Bruin Alford haters say that the only reason Alford is winning is because of Ball (an Alford recruit).

Again, I agree w/ many on here that I would put a few others ahead of Alford (Marshall, Donovan, Stevens, S. Miller...) b/c Alford is not a slam dunk.

 

[JonesIndiana]

Thanks for those points.
Good point on Knight. IU was starting to slide then...but Davis did have Knights players for 3 years under your Howland logic.
I will give you B1G was overall better than under Alford, but your resource is faulty. when the resource had Conf USA and Colonial higher than B1G, I laughed. Check out Sagarin (IU grad) for better stats. The average under TC was 3.0; the average under SA was 3.5. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin-archive.htm#hoop (I don't think you are arguing that TC got a raw deal b/c the conference was dominant, correct? IU did finish 1st in 2012 when B1G was rated first (great season and great job by Crean), but they finished 8th and 9th in the other 2 years B1G was rated first.)

On Howland (regarding your comment below), I did say I thought he was a great coach. 3 F4s in a row are pretty good. He did a great job w/ Westbrook, Collinson, Love, etc. But, it's odd that he did not get to the S16 any of his other 7 years. So, Alford appears to be a bit more consistent than Howland, but I agree that I would take Howland over Alford in terms of success. That is why I said the jury is out on Alford. I threw a lot of stuff at you so I apologize for confusing you.

Are we really using the argument that it's someone else's players? I could see if Alford was not recruiting at all, but he has been getting pretty good recruits. It's interesting that Bruin Alford haters say that the only reason Alford is winning is because of Ball (an Alford recruit).

Again, I agree w/ many on here that I would put a few others ahead of Alford (Marshall, Donovan, Stevens, S. Miller...) b/c Alford is not a slam dunk.

It's not faulty at all, that particular year the Big Ten was awful. Horrid. Three teams went to the dance. Three. That's why it was rated so low. Those are the NCAA's RPI ratings. It is one rating system. I'm fine with using another, but that rating system treats all those teams equally, just as another rating system does the same, but uses different criteria.

Sagarin is actually a MIT grad, but yes he lives in Bloomington. Even using Sagarin ratings, clearly the Big Ten has been much better during the Crean years than the Alford years.

Yes, someone else's players matter. How many coaches have we seen through the course of time get off to a hot start and once their predecessor's players are no longer there, they tank. Mike Davis comes to mind. The opposite can also be true if the cupboard is absolutely bare, which was the case for Tom Crean's rebuild at IU.

 

[Let 'er Fly]

It's not faulty at all, that particular year the Big Ten was awful. Horrid. Three teams went to the dance. Three. That's why it was rated so low. Those are the NCAA's RPI ratings. It is one rating system. I'm fine with using another, but that rating system treats all those teams equally, just as another rating system does the same, but uses different criteria.

Sagarin is actually a MIT grad, but yes he lives in Bloomington. Even using Sagarin ratings, clearly the Big Ten has been much better during the Crean years than the Alford years.

Yes, someone else's players matter. How many coaches have we seen through the course of time get off to a hot start and once their predecessor's players are no longer there, they tank. Mike Davis comes to mind. The opposite can also be true if the cupboard is absolutely bare, which was the case for Tom Crean's rebuild at IU.

Ok, so Sagarin was not an IU grad. I was curious as to why someone that bright would have gone to IU...