Hondo, Aloha, Bing...

Aloha Hoosier

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It was just an analogy. The point being that lowering expectations comes with consequence. There are vocal people on this board who think that with all of the advantages iu holds over other programs a coach should get 4 years to be among the 68 top teams in the country. We will never be a blue blood again with standards so pedestrian. And if we are okay with that, then stop pissing all this money away on recruiting and overpaid coaches.
My expectations aren’t any lower than yours. Every time someone posts that stupid and insulting BS I can’t help but think that person might be a dick or a dim bulb. Sorry, but that’s my opinion. I attended IU ‘79-‘83, so I experienced good IU basketball and a national championship up close and personal. I expect IU to win conference and national championships again - soon. I’m more confident about Miller being the right coach to make that happen than I have been since Knight, but I understand that he can’t get there immediately. He’ll get at least four years here to confirm my belief that he’s on track or to change my mind.
 

mcmurtry66

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My expectations aren’t any lower than yours. Every time someone posts that stupid and insulting BS I can’t help but think that person might be a dick or a dim bulb. Sorry, but that’s my opinion. I attended IU ‘79-‘83, so I experienced good IU basketball and a national championship up close and personal. I expect IU to win conference and national championships again - soon. I’m more confident about Miller being the right coach to make that happen than I have been since Knight, but I understand that he can’t get there immediately. He’ll get at least four years here to confirm my belief that he’s on track or to change my mind.
That’s why we’re all entitled to opinions. We see things differently. The other opinion that has become patent on this board is the time each of us believe markers should be reached. I think three years is enough. And maybe that’s arbitrary, but most things in life are. Without deadlines where would be.... anyway I sincerely hope you’re right and I’m wrong about Miller. I think we’ll get our answer in six weeks. Others think in a year and six weeks, or two years and six weeks. And imo that’s the largest “argument” on this board. Anyway, time to move on and hopefully grab a win Saturday.

And as a footnote about being stupid and bs. That too is just an opinion. Your being more confident in Miller than anyone is stupid in our eyes. What’s that opinion based on? Teams giving minimal effort. Wins against blue blood programs or cupcakes? All the 5 star recruits he’s beating duke, Kansas, Kentucky, and unc out for? Our number one recruiting class for what will be his year four? Blowout losses to less talented teams than us? He’s never won a championship before what makes you think he will now after 2 and 1/2 years of bad basketball? Bc an opinion doesn’t jive with yours doesn’t make it less valid, or stupid or bs, particularly when your opinion is supported by zero facts and is just literally an opinion.

I’m an alum too. Of my crowd of friends from iu I’m the only one who still watches. Two more years of this and the malaise will be unthinkable. The problem is I have no faith any other mid major guy will be better. Kansas got self from kicking ass at Ill. Calipari the nba. Unc got Williams from Kansas. We can’t apparently pull a proven winner. So we overpay a midmajor. I’d rather have fife or try with a new one for less money IF we miss the tourney again. If we make it I’m fine with a fourth year. There has to be deadlines to reach certain markers imo.
 
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Cutter1973

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Sep 26, 2017
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Make more money than you I guarantee have a brain and use it unlike you
Here is a little life lesson. People that make large sums of money do not brag about it, do not talk about it on anonymous message boards, don’t use it to show power, intelligence or gain respect. A broke ass wannabe will do the opposite and look like an idiot in the process. I share this knowledge for free since you can’t afford to pay for advice.
 

.Gerdis

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Dec 10, 2003
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That’s why we’re all entitled to opinions. We see things differently. The other opinion that has become patent on this board is the time each of us believe markers should be reached. I think three years is enough. And maybe that’s arbitrary, but most things in life are. Without deadlines where would be.... anyway I sincerely hope you’re right and I’m wrong about Miller. I think we’ll get our answer in six weeks. Others think in a year and six weeks, or two years and six weeks. And imo that’s the largest “argument” on this board. Anyway, time to move on and hopefully grab a win Saturday.
It’s been posted on here frequently that a coach should get X number of years. The question is to do what? And that depends on the program that he is coaching, and the expectations for that program. You mention the time “each of us believe markers should be reached”. The problem is that we all have different markers, and we see moving goalposts.

There are certain bare minimums that we would expect a coach to do. The problem is that with moving goalposts people can get to the point where they are celebrating mediocrity.
 
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mcmurtry66

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It’s been posted on here frequently that a coach should get X number of years. The question is to do what? And that depends on the program that he is coaching, and the expectations for that program. You mention the time “each of us believe markers should be reached”. The problem is that we all have different markers, and we see moving goalposts.

There are certain bare minimums that we would expect a coach to do. The problem is that with moving goalposts people can get to the point where they are celebrating mediocrity.
Exactly. And you were able to say it in 2/3 less words than me lol.
 

victorbear

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Sep 28, 2005
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It was just an analogy. The point being that lowering expectations comes with consequence. There are vocal people on this board who think that with all of the advantages iu holds over other programs a coach should get 4 years to be among the 68 top teams in the country. We will never be a blue blood again with standards so pedestrian. And if we are okay with that, then stop pissing all this money away on recruiting and overpaid coaches.
Mediocrity is now embraced, trophies for all it's the Millennial way. Give people less and expect them to pay more the American Way. All IU gives a crap about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
 

Aloha Hoosier

Hall of Famer
Aug 30, 2001
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It’s been posted on here frequently that a coach should get X number of years. The question is to do what? And that depends on the program that he is coaching, and the expectations for that program. You mention the time “each of us believe markers should be reached”. The problem is that we all have different markers, and we see moving goalposts.

There are certain bare minimums that we would expect a coach to do. The problem is that with moving goalposts people can get to the point where they are celebrating mediocrity.
No one is moving goal posts or celebrating mediocrity. Those are two more bogus and insulting statements.
 
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mcmurtry66

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No one is moving goal posts or celebrating mediocrity. Those are two more bogus and insulting statements.
But they are. 3 years was the standard. Now we are saying four to just get to the tournament, which with our comparative talent and resources shouldn’t be that hard. That’s moving the goalpost lower.

if we miss the tourney this year he should be fired. Plain and simple. He failed. That’s life. Many of us have to move X amount of cases in a year. Reach certain sales goals in a year. And if we don’t. We’re out. He’s getting 3 mil plus a year. 3 years is plenty of time to meet such a low bar with all the advantages he had at iu.
 
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Cavanagh

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My expectations aren’t any lower than yours. Every time someone posts that stupid and insulting BS I can’t help but think that person might be a dick or a dim bulb. Sorry, but that’s my opinion. I attended IU ‘79-‘83, so I experienced good IU basketball and a national championship up close and personal. I expect IU to win conference and national championships again - soon. I’m more confident about Miller being the right coach to make that happen than I have been since Knight, but I understand that he can’t get there immediately. He’ll get at least four years here to confirm my belief that he’s on track or to change my mind.
How many games did you go to during your time at IU?
 

Aloha Hoosier

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But they are. 3 years was the standard. Now we are saying four to just get to the tournament, which with our comparative talent and resources shouldn’t be that hard. That’s moving the goalpost lower.
Who says that was the standard? And three years to do what? Claiming something is a standard doesn’t make it a standard. I certainly never expected to contend for a national championship in the first three years. No one is moving goalposts except those who had unreasonable expectations. I’d say the majority of those people are our perpetually negative posters.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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How many games did you go to during your time at IU?
Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I went to almost every home game and some on the road. We could only get season tix for half the year back then, but I knew people that had tix for the other half and I usually could get one of those.
 

mcmurtry66

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Who says that was the standard? And three years to do what? Claiming something is a standard doesn’t make it a standard. I certainly never expected to contend for a national championship in the first three years. No one is moving goalposts except those who had unreasonable expectations. I’d say the majority of those people are our perpetually negative posters.
3 years to make the tournament. And if you are pretending like you have never heard of a coach “gets three years” then you are simply being disingenuous. Unreasonable? Again. Your opinion. We think four years is unreasonable to make the tourney. It’s too long. Finally bc someone doesn’t agree with doesn’t make them negative. Setting expectations isn’t negative. Make the tournament by year three. Period. Did we pay over 3 mil and $900k in recruiting to not make the tourney in 3 years and have recruiting classes that are only mid conference level? Do t talk about national championships. You sound insane. Our recruiting is light years away from the big boys. Tell me other than no violations what in year three gives you confidence in what you see in our team. Facts not faith.
 
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Cavanagh

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Not sure what that has to do with anything, but I went to almost every home game and some on the road. We could only get season tix for half the year back then, but I knew people that had tix for the other half and I usually could get one of those.
was just for my information. Carry on.
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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3 years to make the tournament. And if you are pretending like you have never heard of a coach “gets three years” then you are simply being disingenuous. Unreasonable? Again. Your opinion. We think four years is unreasonable to make the tourney. It’s too long. Finally bc someone doesn’t agree with doesn’t make them negative. Setting expectations isn’t negative. Make the tournament by year three. Period. Did we pay over 3 mil and $900k in recruiting to not make the tourney in 3 years and have recruiting classes that are only mid conference level? Do t talk about national championships. You sound insane. Our recruiting is light years away from the big boys. Tell me other than no violations what in year three gives you confidence in what you see in our team. Facts not faith.
I think your opinions are stated clearly and intelligently, even if I may not agree. I think the "negative posters" Aloha is referring to post like this:

Mediocrity is now embraced, trophies for all it's the Millennial way. Give people less and expect them to pay more the American Way. All IU gives a crap about is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.
I can't speak for Aloha, but I don't lump you in with Vickiebear, feepaw, Bailey666, Keyser, cryinho, and a couple of others. They are trolls, plain and simple.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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3 years to make the tournament. And if you are pretending like you have never heard of a coach “gets three years” then you are simply being disingenuous. Unreasonable? Again. Your opinion. We think four years is unreasonable to make the tourney. It’s too long. Finally bc someone doesn’t agree with doesn’t make them negative. Setting expectations isn’t negative. Make the tournament by year three. Period. Did we pay over 3 mil and $900k in recruiting to not make the tourney in 3 years and have recruiting classes that are only mid conference level? Do t talk about national championships. You sound insane. Our recruiting is light years away from the big boys. Tell me other than no violations what in year three gives you confidence in what you see in our team. Facts not faith.
I don’t have any patience for dicks. You’ve crossed over into dick territory by claiming to know what I really think, calling me insane, and acting as if your opinions are facts and the opinions of others are invalid.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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I think your opinions are stated clearly and intelligently, even if I may not agree. I think the "negative posters" Aloha is referring to post like this:



I can't speak for Aloha, but I don't lump you in with Vickiebear, feepaw, Bailey666, Keyser, cryinho, and a couple of others. They are trolls, plain and simple.
I don’t lump him in with them. You are correct.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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I don’t have any patience for dicks. You’ve crossed over into dick territory by claiming to know what I really think, calling me insane, and acting as if your opinions are facts and the opinions of others are invalid.
And I do expect the tournament this year. The season isn’t over and we’re on track for that.
 
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mcmurtry66

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I think your opinions are stated clearly and intelligently, even if I may not agree. I think the "negative posters" Aloha is referring to post like this:



I can't speak for Aloha, but I don't lump you in with Vickiebear, feepaw, Bailey666, Keyser, cryinho, and a couple of others. They are trolls, plain and simple.
Appreciated. And despite my being critical, i really am hoping miller does well here. this year. there's plenty of time left.
 

cryano

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Apr 19, 2005
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I think your opinions are stated clearly and intelligently, even if I may not agree. I think the "negative posters" Aloha is referring to post like this:


I can't speak for Aloha, but I don't lump you in with Vickiebear, feepaw, Bailey666, Keyser, cryinho, and a couple of others. They are trolls, plain and simple.
Trolls...w season tickets for 3 IU teams for many continuous years and counting...hah!
 

Aloha Hoosier

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You're being thin-skinned. we're all IU fans. we just have different opinions.
Sorry. I’ve been on the IU basketball boards for a long time and my tolerance for dickish posts has gotten very low. For what it’s worth, I don’t consider you one of the anti-IU trolls. We certainly have those. I just happen to believe you’re sometimes overly critical and sometimes unreasonable. We watch the same team and have different perceptions about what we see. That’s all OK, but dismissing contrary opinions as totally invalid (insane) is not.

Incidentally, I seriously doubt Miller would be fired if IU doesn’t make the tournament despite that being what both of us expect. I’d place the odds of it happening at near 0 because the buyout is too much. I don’t think any university would do it. Now, if we melt down and don’t win another game, the odds go way up. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
 
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MrBing

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Barcelona, the largest sports club in the world, fired their coach after two years this week. They are in first place in the league and qualified for champions league. Because the play wasn't befitting the standards the fans and board expect. That's expectations and standards. Under knight missing the tournament was the rarest of anomalies. now making the tournament has become the expectation, while still spending more money than any other program on recruiting, and being deemed one of the three most valuable programs in the country.

if you view guys literally jogging back on defense, giving half ass effort, getting blown out of games against schools that are far from blue bloods, and padding our schedule with cupcakes "high expectations," you have a much different definition of high expectations than most. but i get it. it's a rebuild. it can take a decade to find five guys in the state of indiana who can shoot a basketball and oh, i don't know, try.... if we had a top 5 recruiting class coming in with a bunch of 5 stars sprinkled with dead-eye shooters an argument could be made that we are progressing. you watch a game like last night where we suffer the same afflictions we suffered from in year one and you are completely blind if you think things are trending upward.
I don't know anything about European soccer but we disagree on the direction of IU basketball and the chances of IU firing Archie. That's not going to happen.
 

MrBing

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If your expectations are for IU to become a great shooting team you are going to b very disappointed with Archie, he’ll win games with improved defense but if you expect IU to shoot lights out like 2002 team it just ain’t gonna happen.
My expectations are for IU to be a consistently winning team and to contend for national championships.
 

mcmurtry66

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Sorry. I’ve been on the IU basketball boards for a long time and my tolerance for dickish posts has gotten very low. For what it’s worth, I don’t consider you one of the anti-IU trolls. We certainly have those. I just happen to believe you’re sometimes overly critical and sometimes unreasonable. We watch the same team and have different perceptions about what we see. That’s all OK, but dismissing contrary opinions as totally invalid (insane) is not.

Incidentally, I seriously doubt Miller would be fired if IU doesn’t make the tournament despite that being what both of us expect. I’d place the odds of it happening at near 0 because the buyout is too much. I don’t think any university would do it. Now, if we melt down and don’t win another game, the odds go way up. I don’t think that’s going to happen.
I’ve been around on peegs since 1998 I think. I lost my password etc after not being on here much. My prior handle was McMurtry. I don’t think the buyout is an issue. He’d get hired somewhere else and there would be an offset. Anyway, hopefully it’s a moot issue and we make the tourney and gain some momentum going forward.
 
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MrBing

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I’ve been around on peegs since 1998 I think. I lost my password etc after not being on here much. My prior handle was McMurtry. I don’t think the buyout is an issue. He’d get hired somewhere else and there would be an offset. Anyway, hopefully it’s a moot issue and we make the tourney and gain some momentum going forward.
You guys are old! ;)
 
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go_iu

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Feb 22, 2004
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Have you been here a while? or just since miller.... i have been here since the 90s. many folks earlier. never would i have thought our expectations for a program so richly funded would fall so low. if what we're getting from miller doesn't vastly improve by season's end he should be fired and we should take the $900,000 we spend on recruiting and the $1.5 mil he's over paid and hire someone else who will be average for half the price and give the money to the physics dept. I'm sure fife would do it for half this money. He's making $300k and change now. i guarantee the results wouldn't be worse than what we've seen with miller. Your blind defense of miller is just that, blind. And unlike our prior coaches, under miller, our favorite tagline, "help is on the way" isn't true. help is not on the way with his marginal recruiting. not one sharp shooter on the way for what will be year 4 of this nonsense.
Exactly, and I really do think Archie had another plan as has been mentioned on here. That got blown up when his brother got busted. How that guy remains in a job is amazing, Archie just should have proceeded as planned, cheating is basically accepted. I guess to his credit, he backed off, but it is very clear that he cannot recruit at a high level and needs some help. Without TJD, and how he managed to land him I won't even speculate on, we'd be a total disaster mess
 

Bulk VanderHuge

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Exactly, and I really do think Archie had another plan as has been mentioned on here. That got blown up when his brother got busted. How that guy remains in a job is amazing, Archie just should have proceeded as planned, cheating is basically accepted. I guess to his credit, he backed off, but it is very clear that he cannot recruit at a high level and needs some help. Without TJD, and how he managed to land him I won't even speculate on, we'd be a total disaster mess
This is an interesting take.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Exactly, and I really do think Archie had another plan as has been mentioned on here. That got blown up when his brother got busted. How that guy remains in a job is amazing, Archie just should have proceeded as planned, cheating is basically accepted. I guess to his credit, he backed off, but it is very clear that he cannot recruit at a high level and needs some help. Without TJD, and how he managed to land him I won't even speculate on, we'd be a total disaster mess
You actually think he planned to cheat??? You also seem to think that would be a good thing. There is no evidence to support that theory at IU or UD. I think that is a good thing.
 
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mcmurtry66

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Exactly, and I really do think Archie had another plan as has been mentioned on here. That got blown up when his brother got busted. How that guy remains in a job is amazing, Archie just should have proceeded as planned, cheating is basically accepted. I guess to his credit, he backed off, but it is very clear that he cannot recruit at a high level and needs some help. Without TJD, and how he managed to land him I won't even speculate on, we'd be a total disaster mess
Yeah that's an ugly topic. i have zero inside knowledge on anything but i wouldn't be surprised if you are right about archie having to pivot from his "other plan." and honestly i don't know how i feel about it. it's kind of like lance armstrong. armstrong is obviously an ahole. but apparently literally everyone in cycling was cheating. so if they're all cheating they are all on equal playing fields. if miller's average recruiting is because he is under the microscope and can't cheat yet all these other programs are cheating that's a shame. who knows.... it's almost too much to digest. what's more it's going to all change once players start profiting from their likeness etc.
 

mcmurtry66

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You actually think he planned to cheat??? You also seem to think that would be a good thing. There is no evidence to support that theory at IU or UD. I think that is a good thing.
Aloha i think they are all cheating or planning to cheat. Jaded i know but i'm wondering if it's the only way to keep up with the joneses. and i'm not advocating it by the way.
 

Aloha Hoosier

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Aloha i think they are all cheating or planning to cheat. Jaded i know but i'm wondering if it's the only way to keep up with the joneses. and i'm not advocating it by the way.
I don’t think that and I don’t assume our coach had that plan. I hope it was never considered. I always assume people are innocent of breaking the rules/law unless there’s solid evidence to the contrary. In this case there is none.