I’m not saying Trump will win the election outright but he and other republicans are setting up the scenario of throwing the election into the hands of the Supreme Court or the House of Representatives. Battleground states better be an unquestionable blowout for Biden because if it’s close, the republican legislatures in those states will immediately go to work. They’ve already started in PA. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again now. Trump stopped running a campaign to win the election months ago. Since then he’s been running a campaign to remain in office no matter how the election turns out.
His narcissism strikes again
- Thread starter Harry Hondo
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I’m not saying Trump will win the election outright but he and other republicans are setting up the scenario of throwing the election into the hands of the Supreme Court or the House of Representatives. Battleground states better be an unquestionable blowout for Biden because if it’s close, the republican legislatures in those states will immediately go to work. They’ve already started in PA. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again now. Trump stopped running a campaign to win the election months ago. Since then he’s been running a campaign to remain in office no matter how the election turns out.
i don't know what this is even in response to but assuming covid. if covid of course our national response was A factor. That's all i've beaten the dead horse with is this is a multi-faceted F up.
Federal Level
President - litany of F ups from going away on its own to masks to stupid messages
Congress - pelosi san fran etc. congress also had access to info. we had months of notice to do something.
Agencies - antiquated tracking; f'd up tests; goofy messaging on airborne etc;
Federalism
State Level and Local Level
Mask mandates; school closures; business closures; stay at home orders; testing/contact tracing.
American Culture
Rallies; sturgis; protests; rednecks; riots/looters
all of the above was a perfect storm that imo is unique to us and why trying to compare our response to places that are the size of kentucky is absurd. in terms of ongoing response we are basically 50 countries each doing its own thing but united in one collective lousy response
Apparently some believe god does:
There is almost nothing worse than using religion to justify immoral behavior.
And it seems that it’s status quo today among the “evangelicals”. It’s mind blowingly contradictory, and self serving. Which is basically the opposite of what religion is supposed to represent.
Were my previous questions directed towards you too challenging? Or, is this board merely an outlet for you to attempt to “own the libs”?
I’m pretty sure it’s the latter, but you could prove me wrong. All I’ve ever seen from you is a lot of Bomb throwing and b!tching.
Then really compare apples to apples. USA vs. EU. Well, EU is bigger. How about North America vs. EU
i don't know. let's see in a month as their cases are rising. regardless comparisons are silly as we have 3,000 plus city/county execs making our covid decisions. if you don't like what's going on complain to your mayor/execThen really compare apples to apples. USA vs. EU. Well, EU is bigger. How about North America vs. EU
Too bad our nation doesn’t have a leader who could step up and set a national coordinated response.
Like what? Hundreds of redneck counties arent going to follow shit. Did you see the church nutjobs in Nashville? No masks. Singing. Ridiculous. Our prez has zero authority to mandate masks or to do anything. Absent that authority we’re left to our own idiotic devises and we get nonsense like Nashville church loons
Countless times we see reporters interviewing the non-mask-wearing idiots at Trump rallies. They often ask them a hypothetical: would you wear a mask if DJT did all of the time and if he were to insist that it was your patriotic duty to do so? Their answer is always a resounding "yes".
Cult followers listen to their leader.
This cult has a bad leader and we are seeing the consequences.
Cult followers listen to their leader.
This cult has a bad leader and we are seeing the consequences.
you are like a living example of the social dilemma. you just continue to have your brain programmed by watching the same shit over and over "we see reporters interviewing the non-mask wearing at trump rallies" wholly devoid of any independent thoughts of your own. you're just an automaton at this point.
so the latest is this idiotic debacle in nashville
of course trump's messaging is A factor. so too are a thousand other variables. again without the president's authority to mandate masks we're F'd. if a county wanted to mandate masks great; do so; impose fines for those not wearing them. so let's look at this christian singer's idiotic concert in nashville that attracted thousands. the gov of tenn (republican) has left the discretion to mandate masks to the mayors of the cities. mayor of nashville is a democrat. mayor's choice on whether to mandate masks or not. so if the mayor wanted to mandate masks; he could; and then could send in the police to break up the concert. for the billlionth time this stuff is controlled at the local level: both decisions and enforcement. but again continue on with your idiotic automaton script.
trump will be out in january. biden will come in and provide better messaging which likely will have a nominal impact because biden cannot control what is done at the state and local level. a vaccine is the only meaningful remedy for our divided country.
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If you want to understand the mind of cult followers, actually talking to the cult followers and asking them probing questions abouut their behavior seems incredibly relevant, no?
as it relates to that subset; but extrapolating same to 350 million people and ignoring the political structure within which we operate renders same of little value
A Hillary Clinton administration would have put out a unified message based on the known science at the time, and there would not have been the mixed messages and outright contradictions we have been subjected to. The states and localities wouldn't have been given a choice between following the science or following the President; those would have been one and the same. Of course, there very well may have been some Freedom! nutters who ignored the science based messaging, but at least they wouldn't have been able to use the President as an excuse.
Biden will be in a position to begin doing what should have been done a year earlier, but untold damage will have already been done in lost lives and economic fallout.
i have no doubt clinton would have put out a better/consistent message and that would have helped. the degree to which it would have helped i'm not sure. i think where we disagree is the extend of aholes in the country. with my jaded outlook i believe there are more than you. and i do agree the scale on this end tips heavily republican, but dems are infected too. i personally witnessed a shouting match at the post office with a hippie liberal who owns a juice shop i frequent refusing to wear a mask. as i've inarticulately belabored i think there is a quality/curse that's uniquely, independently american that cripples us. couple that with local decision making and we are where we are imo. and no matter who was in charge the second warm weather hit we were going to run into problems.
but my broader point is that all meaningful decision making occurs at the local level and our response is multifaceted - blaming one person is silly. what's more there's a democratic issue to this in that sadly trumps beliefs are congruent with tens of millions of americans. democracy is is in effect all over the map
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i didn't read your post closely enough. yes that's plausible. to tamp down the vocal opponents to a reasonable level so that governors wouldn't have felt compelled to capitulate and pawn decision making on mask to mayors/execs. govs could have mandated masks. like helmets. yes maybe. but still hard to do in counties with low numbers etc
Get over yourself Snowflake!
Very few 'questions' get any response on this board. Mostly it's 'crickets'.
If it doesn't fit the narrative it's heresy.
I will look through your posts...
If I think a question has merit other than a weak rhetorical snark maybe.
Please hold your breath simultaneously.Still waiting for your first post with any merit.
TIA!
Ehh — I dunno, man — I think it’s just a cop out to chalk this up to ‘Mericans being ‘Mericans. Aussies are always being Aussies but they figured it out. They’ve got all the same local vs federal issues we have.
The US responded to AIDS despite our layered government. Difference being that our presidents at the time weren’t telling us not to wear condoms much less telling us that we’re testing too much.
The prez is the PR guy for the US. The importance of that role cannot be overstated.
Snowflake
My questions were an honest effort at actual discussion. I know your positions- you’ve made them very clear.
I’d just like to know HOW you arrived at those positions.
That will help for us to have a constructive debate about issues, rather than throwing poo at each other. This board used to be FULL of great discussions.
Now it’s just basically folks pointing out the Trump administration being out of control, and folks bending over backwards to defend the indefensible. I’ve always been of the option that when something egregious happens, you should point it out, because otherwise you essentially “normalize” the behavior. And it goes far beyond policy with this administration. They’re doing their damndest to tear down the institutions that the country has relied upon since its founding.
It’s been an exhausting 4+ years, but I refuse to succumb to all the madness. And if Trump was a Democrat, I’d feel the same way. The amount of former administration folks and republicans that are staunchly anti-Trump is astounding right now.
I miss the days when we could actually debate policy, and we all had a shared set of facts as a base for our discussions. Post Trump, we can’t even agree on the underlying facts. And that’s by design- if you destroy what the actual truth is, you can more easily substitute your own. Even if it’s false. The Trump admin has essentially perfected Russian disinformation techniques, and overwhelmed everyone with madness. It’s impossible to keep up with it all, and that is also by design.
I’m just trying to understand what your reality is, basically, and knowing your news sources is a big component of doing that. Believe it or not, I read a LOT of the stuff you read, even though I obviously don’t agree with a lot of it.
Also, I’d offer a suggestion for you and a few others. If you disagree with something, post the source you’re relying upon that forms the basis for your disagreements. Facts can actually be established, and it’s more constructive to start there so we can discern what reality actually is.
We’re pretty far down the rabbit hole in terms of being in a post- truth world, and that is vey dangerous, IMO. In other words, let’s establish a baseline BEFORE the true discussion happens about an issue/event.
Let’s make this board great again!
aids didn't require the closing of schools, businesses, and facial masks. there's no comparison to this pandemicEhh — I dunno, man — I think it’s just a cop out to chalk this up to ‘Mericans being ‘Mericans. Aussies are always being Aussies but they figured it out. They’ve got all the same local vs federal issues we have.
The US responded to AIDS despite our layered government. Difference being that our presidents at the time weren’t telling us not to wear condoms much less telling us that we’re testing too much.
The prez is the PR guy for the US. The importance of that role cannot be overstated.
the problem is that there isn't a clear answer to what the right response is/should be. so the president, with no authority, left discretion to govs, who in most instances capitulated same allowing for decision-making at the county/city level. maybe this is the best approach. remember there are many folks who'd rather have the sweden approach. people who rail on trump with the response are people that wanted approach A followed; not all the country subscribed to same. tough stuff. at a minimum i'm in shock that people oppose masks. lastly you cannot forget the legal component of all this mess. you have a president with zero authority to order masks/business closings. so it devolves to the local level. anything at that level is subject to immediate county lawsuits over authority/takings/overbroad nature for protective orders etc. this too is mericans being mericans.
so yet again covid is a complicated matter that blaming a president who has zero authority to do anything is shortsighted and hyper partisan
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Okay so if you were to answer honestly here...what partisan group is more likely to embrace the little things that have been universally adopted across the globe as impediments to spreading Covid (masks, social distancing, hand washing). I'm guessing you would answer democrats.
What group is most resisting these things? I would hope you would answer Republicans.
Who is the head of the republican party? I hope you would say the president.
How is the President reacting towards the virus, in particular the simple things that the world accepts as behaviors to fight it? I would hope you would say, he's been fighting those things. At best he is ignoring them.
Who has the most influence to change the behavior in the republican party? The republican president of course. Particularly this one who has become a cult of personality in the party.
Again consider the exponential impact that converting one anti masker into a believer.
I strongly think Trump could convert millions if he embraced it.
Unfortunately we're both arguing hypotheticals. The only thing that we can compare to is the rest of the world, and right now we are at the bottom along with Russia and Venezuela.
Would he be able to convert everyone? Of course not. To your point there would always be pockets of outliers.
What I'm arguing is the volume of non believers would be significantly lower if Trump and conservative media got on board.
The sad thing for Trump is had he done that and showed a modicum of actual leadership in a crisis....he would probably be the favorite right now.
appreciate your post tommy and of course the democrats are more willing to embrace the little things. where i disagree is the influence people on this board think trump has over 50 million republicans. i also think given all the unique characteristics of federalism and decision making and our 50 states comparing us to other countries of little value. people keep pointing to places like new zealand. hell compare vermont to new zealand. it's more appropriate.
finally again it's just such a complicated matter that trying to reduce it to a trump message doesn't work in my view. hell even masks. my county is under a mandatory mask order and our cases are rising. masks are hardly a panacea. i think it's becoming clear that the only thing that significantly reduces cases is closing businesses and stay orders. closing businesses is going to run into bipartisan complaints. i personally know many dems that were raging against social distancing orders; masks; and business closures. why? because they own restaurants and other businesses.
again, again, again, biden instead of trump would have helped. i don't htink to the degree people on our leftist (wink) board believe. i think once summer hit most folks were done with stay orders and masks help but are no panacea; as we're seeing now
He can still lead by words and by example. Leadership isn't forcing. It's advising, compelling. The rednecks would follow.
Churchill didn't require England's citizens to get underground. He just told them this was the best way to survive. Now, COVID isn't the same as being bombed, but more people have died from COVID than died from German bombs.
215K and growing, compared to 43K.
However, Trump could easily have dictated what the country does. He could've, through his advisors, created criteria, attached it to funding and forced the states to regulate the thousands of licensed businesses to mandate safety precautions. Especially those with liquor licenses.
We will have idiots who think this is a violation fo the Constitution and their rights.
agreed on all fronts and i think that would have reduced the number of deaths. in time though people would have stopped listening; lawsuits would have flooded county courthouses over licenses seeking protective orders etc. by the time the weather warmed up we'd lost our tolerance imo.
As you can see from this photo, Trump didn't want his followers to wear masks until Trump realized he could sell each of them a mask, cap and T-shirt, for $20 apiece ($60 total).
Let's see, now. 25,000 rally attendees X $60 each = $1.5 million (the cheesy smile is free).
Given the context of its creation, yes.
The right to privacy isn't the right to anonymity.
It doesn't matter though. The states of the right to regulate businesses, especially in a healthy crisis. They could just as easily revoke licenses.
It's like my friend on FB, who is now not likely as much of a friend anymore, whined about not being able to go to our favorite bar, and how that was violating his Constitutional rights. I told him, you know what, you're right. You have the freedom to go that bar anytime you want. However, they're closed, and your rights stop just outside the doorway.
"Have at it, b!tc#!"
Not that simple bloom. They don’t have an unfettered right under the guise of regulation. Many counties that ostensibly opened early did so under the pressure of mounting lawsuits. Judge shopping isn’t hard. You presume and entire circuit is like-minded. They aren’t. Business owners won’t sit idly by for long. They have recourse.
Yet here we are. The largest city in the state still imposing health recommended mandates upon its businesses. No one has been able to legally sit at a Marion County bar since early April. No one cares about lawsuits. They either care about what it does to potential voters or not.
Disagree. Our county exec started getting sued right and left and restrictions eased shortly thereafter. But I agree that too is political. It’s all political. Hell our county was even suing businesses to try to get them to close because they refused to follow the shutdown orders. Gyms.
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The government wasn't suing in this part of Indiana. They were just flat telling businesses, if they didn't close they'd revoke their licenses. Of the handful of places I frequent, the health department makes somewhat regular visits.
This is no different than during 9/11 when gas stations were threatened and even compelled to shut amid deep fines for price gouging.
They have been passing out masks for those on camera behind him. I guess that’s a start...As you can see from this photo, Trump didn't want his followers to wear masks until Trump realized he could sell each of them a mask, cap and T-shirt, for $20 apiece ($60 total).
Let's see, now. 25,000 rally attendees X $60 each = $1.5 million (the cheesy smile is free).
