Hard Knocks, IU basketball

[IUNorth]

It'd be sooo interesting to have cameras in the AD office and Cook Hall right now.

Its possible this entire thing is already put to bed. There are certain guys, that we've all discussed ad nauseum, that logic says have likely already been decided on.

Stevens... That ship has either already sailed, or its tied up in port awaiting dedication day. Dolson has known about his move for some time, he talks regularly with Stevens, one way or another, he already knows on him. So if there's an active search going, that eliminates Stevens, I'm sure. Which is incredibly likely to be the case.

Beard... Lots of people clamoring for him, too. I would say that he's probably in a similar boat to Stevens, in terms of this decision already being made, one way or another. Again, Dolson has had this on his mind since last year. I have to think IU, Whitten, maybe others...have already weighed in and made their decision on whether or not Beard can even be a candidate. And if that's a yes, I suspect its already a done deal with him, and we're just waiting on his season to end. And that would make his RMK comments after the UK game, less "out of the blue".

So, if there's still a search going...I suspect its neither of those fellas. I'd LOVE to watch a "Draft Day"/"Hard Knocks" type of documentary on all the discussions, thoughts, opinions in the building, etc...

My bet, if I were putting good money on it, is Dolson goes with someone that doesn't have any sort of RMK/IU ties. Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart, if they'd take it...Byington, Gates, DeVries... and if he whiffs on a few of these type guys...then someone like McCollum, or even an assistant coach like Luke Murray. I know that'll ruffle lots of feathers, but just thinking about how the UK, Louisville, Villanova, Arizona, etc... coaching searches have gone in recent years. I suspect A LOT of the proven names we're assuming would take it, probably even down to most/all of the current SEC coaches...will pass. And at that point, I hope Dolson has a lot of people that are looking at analytics, trends, styles of play, etc...

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

It'd be sooo interesting to have cameras in the AD office and Cook Hall right now.

Its possible this entire thing is already put to bed. There are certain guys, that we've all discussed ad nauseum, that logic says have likely already been decided on.

Stevens... That ship has either already sailed, or its tied up in port awaiting dedication day. Dolson has known about his move for some time, he talks regularly with Stevens, one way or another, he already knows on him. So if there's an active search going, that eliminates Stevens, I'm sure. Which is incredibly likely to be the case.

Beard... Lots of people clamoring for him, too. I would say that he's probably in a similar boat to Stevens, in terms of this decision already being made, one way or another. Again, Dolson has had this on his mind since last year. I have to think IU, Whitten, maybe others...have already weighed in and made their decision on whether or not Beard can even be a candidate. And if that's a yes, I suspect its already a done deal with him, and we're just waiting on his season to end. And that would make his RMK comments after the UK game, less "out of the blue".

So, if there's still a search going...I suspect its neither of those fellas. I'd LOVE to watch a "Draft Day"/"Hard Knocks" type of documentary on all the discussions, thoughts, opinions in the building, etc...

My bet, if I were putting good money on it, is Dolson goes with someone that doesn't have any sort of RMK/IU ties. Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart, if they'd take it...Byington, Gates, DeVries... and if he whiffs on a few of these type guys...then someone like McCollum, or even an assistant coach like Luke Murray. I know that'll ruffle lots of feathers, but just thinking about how the UK, Louisville, Villanova, Arizona, etc... coaching searches have gone in recent years. I suspect A LOT of the proven names we're assuming would take it, probably even down to most/all of the current SEC coaches...will pass. And at that point, I hope Dolson has a lot of people that are looking at analytics, trends, styles of play, etc...

Wasn't Thamel quoted as saying that the criteria included a current college head coach? Among other things.

 

[bsmitty08]

It'd be sooo interesting to have cameras in the AD office and Cook Hall right now.

Its possible this entire thing is already put to bed. There are certain guys, that we've all discussed ad nauseum, that logic says have likely already been decided on.

Stevens... That ship has either already sailed, or its tied up in port awaiting dedication day. Dolson has known about his move for some time, he talks regularly with Stevens, one way or another, he already knows on him. So if there's an active search going, that eliminates Stevens, I'm sure. Which is incredibly likely to be the case.

Beard... Lots of people clamoring for him, too. I would say that he's probably in a similar boat to Stevens, in terms of this decision already being made, one way or another. Again, Dolson has had this on his mind since last year. I have to think IU, Whitten, maybe others...have already weighed in and made their decision on whether or not Beard can even be a candidate. And if that's a yes, I suspect its already a done deal with him, and we're just waiting on his season to end. And that would make his RMK comments after the UK game, less "out of the blue".

So, if there's still a search going...I suspect its neither of those fellas. I'd LOVE to watch a "Draft Day"/"Hard Knocks" type of documentary on all the discussions, thoughts, opinions in the building, etc...

My bet, if I were putting good money on it, is Dolson goes with someone that doesn't have any sort of RMK/IU ties. Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart, if they'd take it...Byington, Gates, DeVries... and if he whiffs on a few of these type guys...then someone like McCollum, or even an assistant coach like Luke Murray. I know that'll ruffle lots of feathers, but just thinking about how the UK, Louisville, Villanova, Arizona, etc... coaching searches have gone in recent years. I suspect A LOT of the proven names we're assuming would take it, probably even down to most/all of the current SEC coaches...will pass. And at that point, I hope Dolson has a lot of people that are looking at analytics, trends, styles of play, etc...

I’m betting it’s Beard

 

[IUNorth]

I’m betting it’s Beard

If it is, I'd bet its already done and decided.

 

[Cavanagh]

I’m betting it’s Beard

I think so too. IU is in a different time and space than 20 years ago. Time to get a winner back in here.

 

[IUNorth]

I think so too. IU is in a different time and space than 20 years ago. Time to get a winner back in here.

I bet its not him. There's the part about whether or not IU would consider him...which we don't know. And then there's the part about whether or not Beard would leave Ole Miss, right now, for IU. Which again, we don't know. When you start adding those questions up, and add odds to it all, I'd say they're pretty low.

But, if it is him, its already done...and the next few weeks will be window dressing if there appears to be any sort of search going on.

 

[Cavanagh]

I bet its not him. There's the part about whether or not IU would consider him...which we don't know. And then there's the part about whether or not Beard would leave Ole Miss, right now, for IU. Which again, we don't know. When you start adding those questions up, and add odds to it all, I'd say they're pretty low.

But, if it is him, its already done...and the next few weeks will be window dressing if there appears to be any sort of search going on.

I’ve heard many people say beard takes it if asked.

 

[edub72]

I think in the current political landscape that nobody would bat an eye if Beard was hired.

 

[IUNorth]

I’ve heard many people say beard takes it if asked.

Me too! I've also heard a few, that "I think" know him from his IU days, that say he's pretty openly loyal to Ole Miss and their AD for hiring him. His history shows that he'd probably jump at the opportunity though...

Which brings me back...if he would, and if Dolson and company would...its done.

 

[Tammany Hall]

Beard would be very surprising for IU or any big brand program. He was barely if at all mentioned in the UK search, and they looked at a lot of coaches. He’s an image hit and ongoing risk for anyone who hires him. We’ll see what happens, this is just a prediction, I’m not debating him, that’s been done ad nauseam.

 

[Tammany Hall]

It'd be sooo interesting to have cameras in the AD office and Cook Hall right now.

Its possible this entire thing is already put to bed. There are certain guys, that we've all discussed ad nauseum, that logic says have likely already been decided on.

Stevens... That ship has either already sailed, or its tied up in port awaiting dedication day. Dolson has known about his move for some time, he talks regularly with Stevens, one way or another, he already knows on him. So if there's an active search going, that eliminates Stevens, I'm sure. Which is incredibly likely to be the case.

Beard... Lots of people clamoring for him, too. I would say that he's probably in a similar boat to Stevens, in terms of this decision already being made, one way or another. Again, Dolson has had this on his mind since last year. I have to think IU, Whitten, maybe others...have already weighed in and made their decision on whether or not Beard can even be a candidate. And if that's a yes, I suspect its already a done deal with him, and we're just waiting on his season to end. And that would make his RMK comments after the UK game, less "out of the blue".

So, if there's still a search going...I suspect its neither of those fellas. I'd LOVE to watch a "Draft Day"/"Hard Knocks" type of documentary on all the discussions, thoughts, opinions in the building, etc...

My bet, if I were putting good money on it, is Dolson goes with someone that doesn't have any sort of RMK/IU ties. Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart, if they'd take it...Byington, Gates, DeVries... and if he whiffs on a few of these type guys...then someone like McCollum, or even an assistant coach like Luke Murray. I know that'll ruffle lots of feathers, but just thinking about how the UK, Louisville, Villanova, Arizona, etc... coaching searches have gone in recent years. I suspect A LOT of the proven names we're assuming would take it, probably even down to most/all of the current SEC coaches...will pass. And at that point, I hope Dolson has a lot of people that are looking at analytics, trends, styles of play, etc...

Scott should write a book someday. The stories would be incredible.

 

[ams66]

Beard would be very surprising for IU or any big brand program. He was barely mentioned in the UK search, and they looked at a lot of coaches. He’s an image hit and ongoing risk for anyone who hires him. We’ll see what happens, this is just a prediction, idk about the debate around him, that’s been done ad nauseam.

He's 51 years old. If he's an abuser, or a drinker, he didn't start two years ago. Investigate his background. You will quickly know if there is more than this one incident.

 

[.Gerdis]

Me too! I've also heard a few, that "I think" know him from his IU days, that say he's pretty openly loyal to Ole Miss and their AD for hiring him. His history shows that he'd probably jump at the opportunity though...

Which brings me back...if he would, and if Dolson and company would...its done.

Define Dolson and company.

More intriguing to me is who will control the hire, and who will control things after the hire. Things aren’t as simple with IUBB as they are with IUFB.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

He's 51 years old. If he's an abuser, or a drinker, he didn't start two years ago. Investigate his background. You will quickly know if there is more than this one incident.

Not necessarily true, but possibly. The newfound pressures of coaching at UT (alma mater isn't it?) were probably bigger than anything he'd done to that point.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I’d bet the house it’s not Beard. I bet the file on his skeletons is a foot thick. You think the boozing stories from our former football coach is bad…triple it with Beard.

 

[IUNorth]

Define Dolson and company.

More intriguing to me is who will control the hire, and who will control things after the hire. Things aren’t as simple with IUBB as they are with IUFB.

??? Whoever else is involved in "OK'ing" coaching candidates. Whitten, BOT, big money donors, others???

I've made many a post on this subject...big grand, lofty ideas that would reshape our entire basketball program. One of them tied that effort in with Stevens, and had him being given basically full autonomy to make the 'Indiana Basketball Organization' a world class group. But outside getting Stevens on board, they could/should strive to do that anyways. Basketball GM, world class analytics, foreign scouts, world class strength and nutrition, social media and marketing overhaul...

This is where it already is...not where its headed. Having people like Quinn Buckner making meaningful decisions and calls, just can't happen any more.

 

[bsmitty08]

Me too! I've also heard a few, that "I think" know him from his IU days, that say he's pretty openly loyal to Ole Miss and their AD for hiring him. His history shows that he'd probably jump at the opportunity though...

Which brings me back...if he would, and if Dolson and company would...its done.

The timing of the Woodson announcement makes me think that Dolson has his man already in a verbal acceptance.

 

[dbmhoosier]

Dolson has to know exactly where he stands with Stevens. If Stevens is out I would expect Dolson to leak something out to temper expectations. Last time we thought we might get him and we ended up with Mike freaking Woodson. They can’t afford another gut punch like that.

 

[MTBRider22]

Not necessarily true, but possibly. The newfound pressures of coaching at UT (alma mater isn't it?) were probably bigger than anything he'd done to that point.

I would say it's probably true and would be very easily discovered. I know/known many coaches from HS levels to all levels of college sports and one thing I can guarantee you, they all know who the boozers are. It's a pretty large fraternity and when these guys get together at clinics, recruiting events, etc. it's a free for all.

One other thing I would say regarding a search and what that would look like. Let's say for the hell of it that Stevens (or any coach) is in and has accepted. There's a very high likelihood that there would still be a "search" in order to provide cover for a while. In particular with this much time left in the season. Just my take on it.

 

[IUNorth]

The timing of the Woodson announcement makes me think that Dolson has his man already in a verbal acceptance.

I thought that too. Flip side...he's been "trying" with a few guys all season, and whiffed again...and didn't want to be left holding the bag well in to March again... And wanted all involved to know that the job is open, and give himself enough time to fully vet and/or convince candidates that IU is the place to be.

 

[kraft cheese+macaroni]

I would say it's probably true and would be very easily discovered. I know/known many coaches from HS levels to all levels of college sports and one thing I can guarantee you, they all know who the boozers are. It's a pretty large fraternity and when these guys get together at clinics, recruiting events, etc. it's a free for all.

One other thing I would say regarding a search and what that would look like. Let's say for the hell of it that Stevens (or any coach) is in and has accepted. There's a very high likelihood that there would still be a "search" in order to provide cover for a while. In particular with this much time left in the season. Just my take on it.

The drinking part I agree with....if he's an alcoholic, that didn't start recently. I was speaking more to the DV.

 

[bsmitty08]

I thought that too. Flip side...he's been "trying" with a few guys all season, and whiffed again...and didn't want to be left holding the bag well in to March again... And wanted all involved to know that the job is open, and give himself enough time to fully vet and/or convince candidates that IU is the place to be.

Possibly but when he announced it leads to a long time until a lot of coaches seasons are over.
People throwing names like McCollum around doesn’t makes sense for this hire. Yes Cignetti worked as a surprise name to take over the job. Difference is that who cares if it didn’t work out…it’s IU football. I dont think you can have this same approach with basketball program.

 

[kurt cloverdales]

I thought that too. Flip side...he's been "trying" with a few guys all season, and whiffed again...and didn't want to be left holding the bag well in to March again... And wanted all involved to know that the job is open, and give himself enough time to fully vet and/or convince candidates that IU is the place to be.

he already knows Cronin and Beard will accept the job if offered.

 

[kkott]

A LOT of the proven names we're assuming would take it, probably even down to most/all of the current SEC coaches...will pass

Don't agree with much of this post, or at least I hope that's not the case. To me, about the only candidate we could have a deal closte to wrapped up with is Stevens. Anyone who's currently coaching, is probably going to want their results from this year factored in to their deal because if they do well, they'd be able to command more $$ or negotiate between their current school and IU. Do you think Beard commands more right now, with the DV residue still hanging over his head, or if he's just been to another E8 or F4? Same with everyone who is currently coaching in college, presuming we're not looking at someone who's stinking it up this year.

Also, from the above quote, feels like you're changing your stance. Last week you were saying there were tons of good coaches available who would be interested, and now it sounds like you're where I was: there's only a few who we would consider, who would also be interested in the job. Which are you thinking?

 

[ams66]

One other thing I would say regarding a search and what that would look like. Let's say for the hell of it that Stevens (or any coach) is in and has accepted. There's a very high likelihood that there would still be a "search" in order to provide cover for a while. In particular with this much time left in the season. Just my take on it.

If the target/agreement is with an active coach, sure. If there's a deal with Stevens, why not announce it now? Is there still a sense that we owe Woodson the exclusivity of the "Head Coach" title until the end of the season?

 

[IUNorth]

Don't agree with much of this post, or at least I hope that's not the case. To me, about the only candidate we could have a deal closte to wrapped up with is Stevens. Anyone who's currently coaching, is probably going to want their results from this year factored in to their deal because if they do well, they'd be able to command more $$ or negotiate between their current school and IU. Do you think Beard commands more right now, with the DV residue still hanging over his head, or if he's just been to another E8 or F4? Same with everyone who is currently coaching in college, presuming we're not looking at someone who's stinking it up this year.

Also, from the above quote, feels like you're changing your stance. Last week you were saying there were tons of good coaches available who would be interested, and now it sounds like you're where I was: there's only a few who we would consider, who would also be interested in the job. Which are you thinking?

No...I think there are TONS of good, capable coaches that would be interested. You're making the assumption that I think only coaches that have proven it as coaches of P4 teams are good and capable. I don't believe that, at all.

Now...that doesn't mean that Dolson ends up picking the "right" guy.

And for your first paragraph...maybe, maybe not. Specific to Beard... Dolson probably has just as much "leverage" with him, than he would with IU. "This is our offer, its banking on you finishing your season well, but even if you win a National Title, this will still be our offer. Take it or leave it."

There are probably some other candidates that could improve their leverage with great finishes to the season, but with all the DV stuff with Beard, I don't think he'd have that same chance. He'd be really fortunate if a school like IU took on the risks.

 

[ams66]

I'm not sure a good tournament run should move the needle much on an offer. If it's the first one, we all know that one tournament run by itself doesn't mean much. Mike Davis got to a Final Four. If it's one run of many, well then we already know he's a good coach and our offer should already reflect that.

 

[kkott]

I'm not sure a good tournament run should move the needle much on an offer. If it's the first one, we all know that one tournament run by itself doesn't mean much. Mike Davis got to a Final Four. If it's one run of many, well then we already know he's a good coach and our offer should already reflect that.

I disagree. How many coaches, especially if they've never been to an E8 or better, do you think don't get some kind of bump/extension in their deal after that? If there current school will pay more, so will any suitors and you might get a whole higher level of suitor by having that run. Just look at Archie, Crean, and Sampson, all were more desireable because they'd had E8 or better runs. If I'm an agent advising a coach as my client, I'm saying let's wait til the end of the season and see what everyone else is offering before we accept anything.

 

[IUgradman]

This next month is going to be stressful. Lots of speculation and supposed insiders giving scoops.

 

[kkott]

No...I think there are TONS of good, capable coaches that would be interested. You're making the assumption that I think only coaches that have proven it as coaches of P4 teams are good and capable. I don't believe that, at all.

Now...that doesn't mean that Dolson ends up picking the "right" guy.

And for your first paragraph...maybe, maybe not. Specific to Beard... Dolson probably has just as much "leverage" with him, than he would with IU. "This is our offer, its banking on you finishing your season well, but even if you win a National Title, this will still be our offer. Take it or leave it."

There are probably some other candidates that could improve their leverage with great finishes to the season, but with all the DV stuff with Beard, I don't think he'd have that same chance. He'd be really fortunate if a school like IU took on the risks.

Disagree with your take on Beard also. He seemingly has had 2 issue-free years with Ol Miss. If he were to tack on a F4 this year, his market value will take a huge jump and some school at a very high level, or OM will agree to pay him a lot more than he makes now. And by adding a F4 and keeping his nose clean, that'll put the DV issues even farther behind him.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

This next month is going to be stressful. Lots of speculation and supposed insiders giving scoops.

Imho it’s been very quiet. So quiet even the burners aren’t quaking. I think the typical positioning is happening to help get a guy a raise/contract.

 

[IndyAuthor]

Which would you value more on a resume from a coach?

Consistently finishing at the top of their conference.
or
Middle of the road conference finishes but a deep run or two in the tournament.

 

[IUNorth]

Possibly but when he announced it leads to a long time until a lot of coaches seasons are over.
People throwing names like McCollum around doesn’t makes sense for this hire. Yes Cignetti worked as a surprise name to take over the job. Difference is that who cares if it didn’t work out…it’s IU football. I dont think you can have this same approach with basketball program.

It starts to make more sense as the bigger name, more proven guys, turn you down. I don't know how far "down" the list I'd have to get before McCollum starts to become more and more viable...but probably not far.

And if other "blue blood" searches are any sort of precursor...we could be in that situation.

UK...without question a "bigger" job than IU. They ended up landing on low/mid major guy in Pope...no P4 experience.
UL...I'd say probably not quite as big as IU, but probably pretty close in terms of prestige and resources. They landed on a low major guy, that had no P4 experience.
Arizona... Similar to IU in most ways... they landed on an assistant coach from Gonzaga.
Villanova...picked Kyle Neptune to succeed Wright...and haven't canned him despite them falling WAY off what they had been used to.

I love IU...I think they have all the best of everything, that "should" lure an impressive list of candidates...I just don't know why IU would when the other schools I listed didnt.

So...if we're seeing what those schools did...names like Stevens, Oats, Pearl, and even Beard...aren't likely viable. After such a list...I think McCollum absolutely makes a ton of sense.

 

[bsmitty08]

It starts to make more sense as the bigger name, more proven guys, turn you down. I don't know how far "down" the list I'd have to get before McCollum starts to become more and more viable...but probably not far.

And if other "blue blood" searches are any sort of precursor...we could be in that situation.

UK...without question a "bigger" job than IU. They ended up landing on low/mid major guy in Pope...no P4 experience.
UL...I'd say probably not quite as big as IU, but probably pretty close in terms of prestige and resources. They landed on a low major guy, that had no P4 experience.
Arizona... Similar to IU in most ways... they landed on an assistant coach from Gonzaga.
Villanova...picked Kyle Neptune to succeed Wright...and haven't canned him despite them falling WAY off what they had been used to.

I love IU...I think they have all the best of everything, that "should" lure an impressive list of candidates...I just don't know why IU would when the other schools I listed didnt.

So...if we're seeing what those schools did...names like Stevens, Oats, Pearl, and even Beard...aren't likely viable. After such a list...I think McCollum absolutely makes a ton of sense.

That’s not accurate on Pope. He was at BYU for last 5 years.

 

[IUNorth]

Disagree with your take on Beard also. He seemingly has had 2 issue-free years with Ol Miss. If he were to tack on a F4 this year, his market value will take a huge jump and some school at a very high level, or at OM will agree to pay him a lot more than he makes now. And by adding a F4 and keeping his nose clean, that'll put the DV issues even farther behind him.

Nah...don't think you're right, at all. Maybe with other schools similar to Ole Miss...maybe at Ole Miss...but not if he'd be stepping up in to the IU level of schools pool.

 

[IUNorth]

That’s not accurate on Pope. He was at BYU for last 5 years.

BYU was a mid major, until last season. But technically, you're right, he did have a year at a P4 school under his belt.

Kinda like Darian DeVries type resume. I think it still proves the premise of my point.

 

[IUgradman]

Imho it’s been very quiet. So quiet even the burners aren’t quaking. I think the typical positioning is happening to help get a guy a raise/contract.

Other boards have alleged insiders claiming Stevens will be the next coach.

 

[ams66]

I disagree. How many coaches, especially if they've never been to an E8 or better, do you think don't get some kind of bump/extension in their deal after that? If there current school will pay more, so will any suitors and you might get a whole higher level of suitor by having that run. Just look at Archie, Crean, and Sampson, all were more desireable because they'd had E8 or better runs. If I'm an agent advising a coach as my client, I'm saying let's wait til the end of the season and see what everyone else is offering before we accept anything.

Well you might be right. I'm sure many (if not most) coaches have contract terms for a bonus based on tournament performance and/or championships.

 

[ams66]

Which would you value more on a resume from a coach?

Consistently finishing at the top of their conference.
or
Middle of the road conference finishes but a deep run or two in the tournament.

I'll go with what RMK always said: the goal every season was to win the conference. A that time it was a true round-robin home-home schedule so the champion had actually proven over time and many games that they were the best team.

Then worry about the tournament. The tournament is win or go home so it's really not a great way to select the "best" team.

 

[IUNorth]

Other boards have alleged insiders claiming Stevens will be the next coach.

Ha ha. Here we go again.

Is it weird that I constantly list him as my top choice, and someone we always have to make turn us down... but then ALSO ridicule these message board "insiders" reports???