First Positive Results..

[Mark Milton]

At one point, and it may have been in his book, Eisenhower ranked the generals in WW2. I want to say he ranked Omar Bradley first, but I couldn't swear to it. I will see if I can find the info.

Here is the summary from Eisenhower's Lieutenants--Eisenhower ranked the generals in a letter to Marshall:

Bradley and Spaatz were ranked equal

Bedell-Smith was ranked third

Patton fourth

Mark Clark fifth

Truscott sixth

Doolittle seventh

Gerow eighth

Collins ninth

Patch tenth

Hodges eleventh

Simpson twelfth

Obviously, these are all European Theatre generals.

 

[CriticArisen]

Here is the summary from Eisenhower's Lieutenants--Eisenhower ranked the generals in a letter to Marshall:

Bradley and Spaatz were ranked equal

Bedell-Smith was ranked third

Patton fourth

Mark Clark fifth

Truscott sixth

Doolittle seventh

Gerow eighth

Collins ninth

Patch tenth

Hodges eleventh

Simpson twelfth

Obviously, these are all European Theatre generals.

Neat-thanks for posting. I don’t know much. about Spaatz so need to do some reading. The US refused to participate in bombing civilian targets in Germany so raids like Dresden were RAF operations. The US bombed militarily significant targets during the day and RAF at night so US missions at higher risk. The way the UK bombed no real need for the super accurate Tobel bombsite from the Sherlock Holmes movie. I have no idea if targeting civilian targets materially shortened the war with Germany but certainly didn’t extend it. Of course the US adopted a different policy with Japan than with Germany.

 

[Mark Milton]

Neat-thanks for posting. I don’t know much. about Spaatz so need to do some reading. The US refused to participate in bombing civilian targets in Germany so raids like Dresden were RAF operations. The US bombed militarily significant targets during the day and RAF at night so US missions at higher risk. The way the UK bombed no real need for the super accurate Tobel bombsite from the Sherlock Holmes movie. I have no idea if targeting civilian targets materially shortened the war with Germany but certainly didn’t extend it. Of course the US adopted a different policy with Japan.

Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon. They even worked in Moriarty. I know it well from my childhood and watching every one of those magnificent Basil Rathbone as Holmes movies with my dad and brother.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Neat-thanks for posting. I don’t know much. about Spaatz so need to do some reading. The US refused to participate in bombing civilian targets in Germany so raids like Dresden were RAF operations. The US bombed militarily significant targets during the day and RAF at night so US missions at higher risk. The way the UK bombed no real need for the super accurate Tobel bombsite from the Sherlock Holmes movie. I have no idea if targeting civilian targets materially shortened the war with Germany but certainly didn’t extend it. Of course the US adopted a different policy with Japan.

Some pilots refused, but most of them backed down when told they would be court-martialed. The 8th Air Force hit Dresden. 300 8th Air Force B-17s bombed on Wednesday. The initial were British Lancasters Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. The fires were so bad the B-17s had trouble finding their aiming point. 200 more hit it the next day.

Apocalypse in Dresden, February 1945 | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

What happened in Dresden in February 1945 was apocalyptic.

www.nationalww2museum.org

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

Some pilots refused, but most of them backed down when told they would be court-martialed. The 8th Air Force hit Dresden. 300 8th Air Force B-17s bombed on Wednesday. The initial were British Lancasters Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. The fires were so bad the B-17s had trouble finding their aiming point. 200 more hit it the next day.

Apocalypse in Dresden, February 1945 | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

What happened in Dresden in February 1945 was apocalyptic.

www.nationalww2museum.org

Very strange that they didn’t highlight the Dresden mission in Masters of the Air but somehow found a way to shoehorn the Tuskegee Airmen in there.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

Very strange that they didn’t highlight the Dresden mission in Masters of the Air but somehow found a way to shoehorn the Tuskegee Airmen in there.

The 100th was not part of that Dresden raid, they did hit it a few weeks later. But not the big fire bombing.

The big association between the 100th and Tuskegee was in the POW camp. The Tuskegee squadron never flew protection for the 100th. But their airmen did get put into the same POW camp.

 

[CriticArisen]

Some pilots refused, but most of them backed down when told they would be court-martialed. The 8th Air Force hit Dresden. 300 8th Air Force B-17s bombed on Wednesday. The initial were British Lancasters Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. The fires were so bad the B-17s had trouble finding their aiming point. 200 more hit it the next day.

Apocalypse in Dresden, February 1945 | The National WWII Museum | New Orleans

What happened in Dresden in February 1945 was apocalyptic.

www.nationalww2museum.org

The initial raids I believe were US precision bombing attacks on targets that supported the German war effort (rail yards etc).

Freeman Dyson, Nobel Prize winning physicist, worked in British bomber command and had this to say-

“The only inaccuracy that I found in it is that it does not say that the night attack which produced the holocaust was a British affair. ”

I believe there was a US follow up raid that due to cloud cover diverted to the tertiary target of Dresden and did bomb the rubble in Dresden City Center. The primary targets were military relevant.

 

[Marvin the Martian]

The initial raids I believe were US precision bombing attacks on targets that supported the German war effort (rail yards etc).

Freeman Dyson, Nobel Prize winning physicist, worked in British bomber command and had this to say-

“The only inaccuracy that I found in it is that it does not say that the night attack which produced the holocaust was a British affair. ”

I believe there was a US follow up raid that due to cloud cover diverted to the tertiary target of Dresden and did bomb the rubble in Dresden City Center. The primary targets were military relevant.

If I recall, we were hitting a train station or the like. Not like trains could still run. In fact I suspect it would hinder getting aid to the civilians, or getting them out.

I have a huge respect for the Americans who tried not to hit civilian targets, though to be honest the Norton was pretty poor in practice. Gladwell has a good book "Bomber Mafia" about how we came up with the idea of daylight strategic bombing. It came about when one flood destroyed one factory in PA and crippled US airplane manufacturing. The idea that eliminating certain targets, ball bearings for example, was born. Bomber Harris of the RAF could best be described easily as a war criminal.

Sadly for the Japanese, the altitude B29s bombed at made the Norton totally useless. So LeMay came in and had us fly low, hit city centers with incendiary devices. But we tried to do precision bombing before LeMay.

The thing there, it really didn't matter. We had stopped Japan from getting any raw materials. She wasn't able to produce much whether we bombed them or not. But we didn't know how effective our blockade really was.

 

[CriticArisen]

If I recall, we were hitting a train station or the like. Not like trains could still run. In fact I suspect it would hinder getting aid to the civilians, or getting them out.

I have a huge respect for the Americans who tried not to hit civilian targets, though to be honest the Norton was pretty poor in practice. Gladwell has a good book "Bomber Mafia" about how we came up with the idea of daylight strategic bombing. It came about when one flood destroyed one factory in PA and crippled US airplane manufacturing. The idea that eliminating certain targets, ball bearings for example, was born. Bomber Harris of the RAF could best be described easily as a war criminal.

Sadly for the Japanese, the altitude B29s bombed at made the Norton totally useless. So LeMay came in and had us fly low, hit city centers with incendiary devices. But we tried to do precision bombing before LeMay.

The thing there, it really didn't matter. We had stopped Japan from getting any raw materials. She wasn't able to produce much whether we bombed them or not. But we didn't know how effective our blockade really was.

Actually the story I have read is that Stalin requested the rail yards at Dresden be taken out. It was the intersection of the North South and East West German rail system and he had concerns about supplies to the East.

I will read Bomber Mafia.

 

[GooglyMooglyWooglyBoogly]

The 100th was not part of that Dresden raid, they did hit it a few weeks later. But not the big fire bombing.

The big association between the 100th and Tuskegee was in the POW camp. The Tuskegee squadron never flew protection for the 100th. But their airmen did get put into the same POW camp.

What a great scene that would’ve been. The 100th flying over a burnt out Dresden. And still keeps the story with the 8th Air Force.

Not some manufactured relationship with the Tuskegee’s because they happened to be in same POW camp.

 

[DANC]

What a great scene that would’ve been. The 100th flying over a burnt out Dresden. And still keeps the story with the 8th Air Force.

Not some manufactured relationship with the Tuskegee’s because they happened to be in same POW camp.

It's politically correct, but I have no problem with it. I thought it was a nice tie-in and the interview with the guy who was in the POW camp and, i think, put up the flag, or saw the flag put up in the camp after they were liberated.... I got chills when he talked about seeing 'Old Glory' flying. Not many people call it that any more, but it was common back then. I don't know - something about that scene brings a lump to my throat.

Like the love story in the origian Midway. WTF did that have to do with the Battle of Midway. Movies are stories and ancillary scenes are put in to sell tickets or tell a back story or whatever. I personally found the POW tie-in to be interesting.