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First Positive Results..

Guy I knew who was on Omaha Beach on D-Day always said they were outgunned by German weapons.

He always used the example of our .30 caliber water-cooled machine guns, which overheated constantly and took forever to reload, while the German machine guns could be reloaded in a much shorter time (sorry, I'm not an arms expert - I'm sure someone here knows more about it than I do).

The Japanese equipment may have been better, but the survivability of their planes and tanks were worse than ours.

British intelligence was excellent vs Germany and our intelligence service - and sheer guts of our Navy pilots - won the Battle of Midway, which turned the tide of the war to put us on offense.
Not sure how small arms and fixed encampment gun positions came into this but German artillery and infantry moved on oats for fuel-

“Horse-drawn transportation was most important for Germany, as it was relatively lacking in automotive industry[2] and oil resources. Infantry and horse-drawn artillery formed the bulk of the German Army throughout the war; only one fifth of the Army belonged to mobile panzer and mechanized divisions. Each German infantry division employed thousands of horses and thousands of men taking care of them. Despite losses of horses to enemy action, exposure and disease, Germany maintained a steady supply of work and saddle horses until 1945. Cavalry in the German Army and the Waffen-SS gradually increased in size, peaking at six cavalry divisions in February 1945.”




I don’t know much about Japanese tanks but for naval operations that started the war the Zero was a far better aircraft 12-1 kill ratio is stellar-


“The Zero is considered to have been the most capable carrier-based fighter in the world when it was introduced early in World War II, combining excellent maneuverability and very long range.[2] The Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service also frequently used it as a land-based fighter.

In early combat operations, the Zero gained a reputation as a dogfighter,[3] achieving an outstanding kill ratio of 12 to 1,”

Japanese torpedo-

The Type 93 (酸素魚雷, designated for Imperial Japanese calendar year 2593) was a 610 mm (24 in)-diameter torpedo of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN), launched from surface ships. It is commonly referred to as the Long Lance[1] by most modern English-language naval historians, a nickname given to it after the war by Samuel Eliot Morison,[2] the chief historian of the U.S. Navy, who spent much of the war in the Pacific Theater. In Japanese references, the term Sanso gyorai (酸素魚雷, lit. "oxygen torpedo") is also used, in reference to its propulsion system.[3] It was the most advanced naval torpedo in the world at the time.

American torpedo-

“The Mark 14 was central to the torpedo scandal of the U.S. Pacific Fleet Submarine Force during World War II. Inadequate production planning led to severe shortages of the weapon. The frugal, Depression-era, peacetime testing of both the torpedo and its exploder was woefully inadequate and had not uncovered many serious design problems. Torpedoes were so expensive that the Navy was unwilling to perform tests that would destroy a torpedo. Furthermore, the design defects tended to mask each other.[36] Much of the blame commonly attached to the Mark 14 correctly belongs to the Mark 6 exploder. These defects, in the course of fully twenty months of war, were exposed, as torpedo after torpedo either missed by running directly under the target, prematurely exploded, or struck targets with textbook right angle hits (sometimes with an audible clang) yet failed to explode.[37]

Not aware of any armor battles with US in the Pacific but I know the Japanese used in China. If Chiang Kai-shek hadn’t blown the levees on the Yellow River and killed a large number of his own citizens the Japanese would have overrun China. Their tanks were adequate for China.
 
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Forgot Stukas-

“Though sturdy, accurate, and very effective against ground targets, the Stuka was, like many other dive bombers of the period, vulnerable to fighter aircraft. During the Battle of Britain of 1940–1941, its lack of manoeuvrability, speed, or defensive armament meant that it required a heavy fighter escort to operate effectively.”

“Once the Luftwaffe lost air superiority, the Stuka became an easy target for enemy fighters, but it continued being produced until 1944 for lack of a better replacement”


Ernst Udet that sponsored the Stuka in the Luftwaffe supposedly wanted to tell Hitler that Soviet aircraft were good and that Germany could not win an airwar with the Soviets but Goering kept him weak with alcohol and drugs and he finally shot himself in the head.
 
Funny that the A10 (similar function as Stukas) has been a wildly successful close support aircraft that has been hated by the Air Force since before it was even constructed. It is relatively cheap and so doesn’t have the money opportunities nor the glitz of bombers and fighters. Multi role aircraft tend to be very expensive and not as proficient in individual roles as specialized aircraft. A10 is by far the most proficient close support aircraft ever constructed but the Air Force will be rid of it soon.

If you have time read this GAO report on the F35 maintenance nightmare

 
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The GAO reports on the new $14 billion aircraft carrier are shocking but two non GAO summaries here



It was delivered 8 years ago but radars still not working to spec, bad bunking conditions for sailors, toilets don’t work properly, can’t accommodate F35s, and can launch and recover aircraft only as well as the Midway could that was built in 1943. Not to mention it is a huge target with a Kick Me sign on the modern naval battlefield.
 
Zumwalt Class destroyers, anticipated ed to build 32 and three built before program cancellation and nothing worked. Summary below-

Mike Fredenburg analyzed the program for National Review after Zumwalt broke down in the Panama Canal in November 2016. He concluded that the ship's problems "are emblematic of a defense procurement system that is rapidly losing its ability to meet our national security needs."[58] Fredenburg went on to detail problems relating to the skyrocketing costs, lack of accountability, unrealistic goals, a flawed concept of operations, the perils of designing a warship around stealth, and the failure of the Advanced Gun System. He concludes:

The Zumwalt is an unmitigated disaster. Clearly it is not a good fit as a frontline warship. With its guns neutered, its role as a primary anti-submarine-warfare asset in question, its anti-air-warfare capabilities inferior to those of our current workhorse, the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers, and its stealth not nearly as advantageous as advertised, the Zumwalt seems to be a ship without a mission.[58]
 
The KC46 replacement for KC135 refueling tanker woes. The saga has gone on for years and still flying, as I understand it, with 6 category 1 safety issues that could result in loss of an aircraft. The air force has decided to accelerate the development of the next generation refueling tanker that will be stealth. Boeing is pretty much miserable everywhere. They used to have good engineering but something changed.

 
The KC46 replacement for KC135 refueling tanker woes. The saga has gone on for years and still flying, as I understand it, with 6 category 1 safety issues that could result in loss of an aircraft. The air force has decided to accelerate the development of the next generation refueling tanker that will be stealth. Boeing is pretty much miserable everywhere. They used to have good engineering but something changed.

It is kind of amazing, but the most reliable jets (not best), the US military has, are the newly modified F-15 and F-18. Can’t wait to see how much we have already spent on 6th gen fighters…..
 
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It is kind of amazing, but the most reliable jets (not best), the US military has, are the newly modified F-15 and F-18. Can’t wait to see how much we have already spent on 6th gen fighters…..

I would hate to see what breaks if stress tested in a conflict with China. As I noted earlier the stress test of simpler systems in Ukraine has not gone well.
 
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It is kind of amazing, but the most reliable jets (not best), the US military has, are the newly modified F-15 and F-18. Can’t wait to see how much we have already spent on 6th gen fighters…..
Also can be the case that reliable means best in battle. If you have aircraft availability issues due to high maintenance requirements and long logistics lines for spare parts then more reliable looks very good.
 
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Not sure how small arms and fixed encampment gun positions came into this but German artillery and infantry moved on oats for fuel-

“Horse-drawn transportation was most important for Germany, as it was relatively lacking in automotive industry[2] and oil resources. Infantry and horse-drawn artillery formed the bulk of the German Army throughout the war; only one fifth of the Army belonged to mobile panzer and mechanized divisions. Each German infantry division employed thousands of horses and thousands of men taking care of them. Despite losses of horses to enemy action, exposure and disease, Germany maintained a steady supply of work and saddle horses until 1945. Cavalry in the German Army and the Waffen-SS gradually increased in size, peaking at six cavalry divisions in February 1945.”




I don’t know much about Japanese tanks but for naval operations that started the war the Zero was a far better aircraft 12-1 kill ratio is stellar-


“The Zero is considered to have been the most capable carrier-based fighter in the world when it was introduced early in World War II, combining excellent maneuverability and very long range.[2] The Imperial Japanese Navy Air Service also frequently used it as a land-based fighter.

In early combat operations, the Zero gained a reputation as a dogfighter,[3] achieving an outstanding kill ratio of 12 to 1,”

Japanese torpedo-

The Type 93 (酸素魚雷, designated for Imperial Japanese calendar year 2593) was a 610 mm (24 in)-diameter torpedo of the Imperial Japanese Navy (IJN), launched from surface ships. It is commonly referred to as the Long Lance[1] by most modern English-language naval historians, a nickname given to it after the war by Samuel Eliot Morison,[2] the chief historian of the U.S. Navy, who spent much of the war in the Pacific Theater. In Japanese references, the term Sanso gyorai (酸素魚雷, lit. "oxygen torpedo") is also used, in reference to its propulsion system.[3] It was the most advanced naval torpedo in the world at the time.

American torpedo-

“The Mark 14 was central to the torpedo scandal of the U.S. Pacific Fleet Submarine Force during World War II. Inadequate production planning led to severe shortages of the weapon. The frugal, Depression-era, peacetime testing of both the torpedo and its exploder was woefully inadequate and had not uncovered many serious design problems. Torpedoes were so expensive that the Navy was unwilling to perform tests that would destroy a torpedo. Furthermore, the design defects tended to mask each other.[36] Much of the blame commonly attached to the Mark 14 correctly belongs to the Mark 6 exploder. These defects, in the course of fully twenty months of war, were exposed, as torpedo after torpedo either missed by running directly under the target, prematurely exploded, or struck targets with textbook right angle hits (sometimes with an audible clang) yet failed to explode.[37]

Not aware of any armor battles with US in the Pacific but I know the Japanese used in China. If Chiang Kai-shek hadn’t blown the levees on the Yellow River and killed a large number of his own citizens the Japanese would have overrun China. Their tanks were adequate for China.
Regarding the Zero, check out the survivability that I mentioned.

You need to learn about the battles on island battles like Iwo Jima - the Japanese used tanks in those battles. Just because they weren't on the plains of Europe doesn't mean they didn't used them against US troops.
 
Funny that the A10 (similar function as Stukas) has been a wildly successful close support aircraft that has been hated by the Air Force since before it was even constructed. It is relatively cheap and so doesn’t have the money opportunities nor the glitz of bombers and fighters. Multi role aircraft tend to be very expensive and not as proficient in individual roles as specialized aircraft. A10 is by far the most proficient close support aircraft ever constructed but the Air Force will be rid of it soon.

If you have time read this GAO report on the F35 maintenance nightmare

The A10 didn't have the same function as the Stuka. It was, as you said, a close air support, which the Stuka was not. It was also slow moving and low altitude - something the Stukas certainly were not.
 
Regarding the Zero, check out the survivability that I mentioned.

You need to learn about the battles on island battles like Iwo Jima - the Japanese used tanks in those battles. Just because they weren't on the plains of Europe doesn't mean they didn't used them against US troops.
The 12-1 kill ratio is a measure of survivability. The most important. As I noted this was at the start of the war and changed later when the US introduced updated fighters. Maybe you are referring to later in the war. The Hellcat was introduced later in 1943 and was superior to the Zero but this was after Coral Sea and Midway,

There were about 20 Japanese tanks on Iwo Jima that were dug in to fixed positions and so used essentially as artillery pieces. The 8 Sherman tanks converted to flame throwers (slang named Zippo Tanks after Zippo lighters) were highly effective against the Japanese prepared positions.
 
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The A10 didn't have the same function as the Stuka. It was, as you said, a close air support, which the Stuka was not. It was also slow moving and low altitude - something the Stukas certainly were not.
They are both specialized for ground attack. The low and slow tactic of the A10 and its ability to accurately target ground targets allowed it to be used in close support. The Stuka relied on bombs as munitions along with two .312 machine guns while the A10 uses the GAU-8 30 mm including depleted uranium and zirconium ammunition allowing it to target hardened positions. They were both specialized aircraft for ground attack.

The Stuka is routinely described as a close support aircraft-

“The Ju 87 operated with considerable success in close air supportand anti-shipping roles at the outbreak of World War II. “

The Ju 87 is the aircraft known as the Stuka.

The max dive velocity of the Stuka was 370 mph while normal cruise speed of the A10 is 350 mph. The A10 is slow by modern standards for a combat plane but not by WW2 standards.
 
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Regarding the Zero, check out the survivability that I mentioned.

You need to learn about the battles on island battles like Iwo Jima - the Japanese used tanks in those battles. Just because they weren't on the plains of Europe doesn't mean they didn't used them against US troops.
I looked at Tarawa and I see one Japanese tank mentioned. The Japanese tank took out one Sherman before being rendered inoperable by ramming. Three tanks made it onshore while several were lost in the sea before making it onshore. The main gun at that time was unable to penetrate Japanese prepared positions.

This general comment from Tarawa-

“Just a few Shermans helped turn the tide of a disaster—but clearly the Tarawa landing had left much to be desired. Even the 75-millimeter guns still struggled to bust bunkers, and the M3s were clearly out of their depth. Furthermore, the tanks needed to cooperate better with Marine riflemen, and find ways to avoid losses to flooding and enemy fire. “

My general understanding is that Shermans converted to flamethrowers were highly effective throughout the Pacific and that unconverted Shermans came to be used effectively in a close infantry support role. Japanese tanks were often used as artillery in prepared positions but also in close infantry support. The Chi Ha Kai was a medium tank and most deployed by Japan but only 1162 of these tanks produced. Apparently Russian armor routed the Chi Ha and that resulted in the Chi Ha Kai upgrade of larger caliber and higher velocity due to longer muzzle. The Chi Ha was adequate for operations against the Chinese and the Chi Ha Kai effective in early invasions but side by side inferior to the British Matilda and Sherman tanks. Mitsubishi built the Chi Ha and Chi Ha Kai.

In contrast there were about 50,000 Shermans built and yes popular and effective tank for the day. The cost of the day was about $60k per tank. The Sherman fulfilled its infantry support and incendiary roles well on Saipan and Okinawa.

Japan designed and maybe produced a handful of tanks that were intended to best the Sherman but degradation of Japanese industry by US bombing and then the end of the war precluded fielding heavier tanks.

First I knew of the Chi Ha and Chi Ha Kai so thank you for directing my attention and identifying deficits of my education so clearly. Live and learn.

Interesting that both Mitsubishi and Maybach were Japanese and German producers of decent tank engines at that time and still around. Sherman’s were manufactured by several locomotive companies, Chrysler, Fisher Body of GM, and a small number by Ford.
 
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The 12-1 kill ratio is a measure of survivability. The most important. As I noted this was at the start of the war and changed later when the US introduced updated fighters. Maybe you are referring to later in the war. The Hellcat was introduced later in 1943 and was superior to the Zero but this was after Coral Sea and Midway,

There were about 20 Japanese tanks on Iwo Jima that were dug in to fixed positions and so used essentially as artillery pieces. The 8 Sherman tanks converted to flame throwers (slang named Zippo Tanks after Zippo lighters) were highly effective against the Japanese prepared positions.
I said islands like Iwo Jima. There were other Pacific Island battles....
 
They are both specialized for ground attack. The low and slow tactic of the A10 and its ability to accurately target ground targets allowed it to be used in close support. The Stuka relied on bombs as munitions along with two .312 machine guns while the A10 uses the GAU-8 30 mm including depleted uranium and zirconium ammunition allowing it to target hardened positions. They were both specialized aircraft for ground attack.

The Stuka is routinely described as a close support aircraft-

“The Ju 87 operated with considerable success in close air supportand anti-shipping roles at the outbreak of World War II. “

The Ju 87 is the aircraft known as the Stuka.

The max dive velocity of the Stuka was 370 mph while normal cruise speed of the A10 is 350 mph. The A10 is slow by modern standards for a combat plane but not by WW2 standards.
The A10 operated at much slower speeds when actively engaged.

They were not used for close air support. They were used, effectively, as artillary pieces.
 
The A10 operated at much slower speeds when actively engaged.

They were not used for close air support. They were used, effectively, as artillary pieces.
I have no clue what you are talking about. What was not used for close air support and what were used effectively as artillery pieces?

Both the A10 and the Stuka had close air support roles and considered close air support aircraft.

A10
“Fighters and ground attack aircraft like the A-10 Thunderbolt II provide close air support using rockets, missiles, bombs, and strafing runs.”

Stuka

“The Ju 87 operated with considerable success in close air supportand anti-shipping roles at the outbreak of World War II.”

The JU87 is the Stuka.
 
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The 12-1 kill ratio is a measure of survivability. The most important. As I noted this was at the start of the war and changed later when the US introduced updated fighters. Maybe you are referring to later in the war. The Hellcat was introduced later in 1943 and was superior to the Zero but this was after Coral Sea and Midway,

There were about 20 Japanese tanks on Iwo Jima that were dug in to fixed positions and so used essentially as artillery pieces. The 8 Sherman tanks converted to flame throwers (slang named Zippo Tanks after Zippo lighters) were highly effective against the Japanese prepared positions.

Those Zero kill ratio numbers are highly inflated, most likely by the kills they put up against the inferior Chinese planes and pilots...

Against the Wildcat the number was 5.9 Zeros downed for every 1 Wildcat lost (combined Navy/Marine numbers)... Once our guys learned not to try to turn or climb with them our pilots gave a Very good accounting of themselves...

When the next generation Corsairs and Hellcats came on line we completely decimated them...

Here's an article you might find interesting:


And here's one that alludes to the kill ratio I mentioned:

 
I looked at Tarawa and I see one Japanese tank mentioned. The Japanese tank took out one Sherman before being rendered inoperable by ramming. Three tanks made it onshore while several were lost in the sea before making it onshore. The main gun at that time was unable to penetrate Japanese prepared positions.

This general comment from Tarawa-

“Just a few Shermans helped turn the tide of a disaster—but clearly the Tarawa landing had left much to be desired. Even the 75-millimeter guns still struggled to bust bunkers, and the M3s were clearly out of their depth. Furthermore, the tanks needed to cooperate better with Marine riflemen, and find ways to avoid losses to flooding and enemy fire. “

My general understanding is that Shermans converted to flamethrowers were highly effective throughout the Pacific and that unconverted Shermans came to be used effectively in a close infantry support role. Japanese tanks were often used as artillery in prepared positions but also in close infantry support. The Chi Ha Kai was a medium tank and most deployed by Japan but only 1162 of these tanks produced. Apparently Russian armor routed the Chi Ha and that resulted in the Chi Ha Kai upgrade of larger caliber and higher velocity due to longer muzzle. The Chi Ha was adequate for operations against the Chinese and the Chi Ha Kai effective in early invasions but side by side inferior to the British Matilda and Sherman tanks. Mitsubishi built the Chi Ha and Chi Ha Kai.

In contrast there were about 50,000 Shermans built and yes popular and effective tank for the day. The cost of the day was about $60k per tank. The Sherman fulfilled its infantry support and incendiary roles well on Saipan and Okinawa.

Japan designed and maybe produced a handful of tanks that were intended to best the Sherman but degradation of Japanese industry by US bombing and then the end of the war precluded fielding heavier tanks.

First I knew of the Chi Ha and Chi Ha Kai so thank you for directing my attention and identifying deficits of my education so clearly. Live and learn.

Interesting that both Mitsubishi and Maybach were Japanese and German producers of decent tank engines at that time and still around. Sherman’s were manufactured by several locomotive companies, Chrysler, Fisher Body of GM, and a small number by Ford.

Tarawa was the first time Marine infantry operated directly with Marine tanks and they both learned on the fly... The critique of their 75mm main gun is misplaced... Direct fire from Naval 14 inch guns didn't bust those same bunkers, and for good reason: layers of overlapping coconut logs, sand, concrete, coral and more coconut logs make for an extremely difficult nut to crack...

Just off the top of my head..., the well known instances of Marine tanks facing off against Japanese tanks that were in the manuver was on Saipan, Tinian, Peliulu and possibly Guam...
They were victorious in most 1 v 1 encounters and ultimately victorious in all unit on unit encounters...

Here's an article that doesn't cover the topic at hand but you might find it interesting anyway (it touches on some of the combat modifications made by Marine Tankers). :


Here's one about Japanese Tanks on Saipan :


Here's an in depth look at USMC Tanks and Tank doctrine 1920-1950:

 
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Those Zero kill ratio numbers are highly inflated, most likely by the kills they put up against the inferior Chinese planes and pilots...

Against the Wildcat the number was 5.9 Zeros downed for every 1 Wildcat lost (combined Navy/Marine numbers)... Once our guys learned not to try to turn or climb with them our pilots gave a Very good accounting of themselves...

When the next generation Corsairs and Hellcats came on line we completely decimated them...

Here's an article you might find interesting:


And here's one that alludes to the kill ratio I mentioned:

Actually I do find this interesting and will need a few days to go through things. The article not so much but the video yes. The article includes general statements like the Japanese had the advantage in the first 18 months. Statements like this are the conventional wisdom. The video is challenging the conventional wisdom. It’s a good thing to do.

I always accept that as time progressed US tactics (dogfighting included) improved much more quickly then the Japanese and that US equipment improved more quickly then the Japanese but always accepted that the Zero had better results at the start of the war. Maybe it’s just false. When I look at statements from Midway time frame I still see complaints from combatants about the superior performance of the Zero. Give me a few days. I will try to track down where the 12-1 kill ratio comes from and try to better understand the timing of relative advantages at the start of the war.

Thank you for your response.
 
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Tarawa was the first time Marine infantry operated directly with Marine tanks and they both learned on the fly... The critique of their 75mm main gun is misplaced... Direct fire from Naval 14 inch guns didn't bust those same bunkers, and for good reason: layers of overlapping coconut logs, sand, concrete, coral and more coconut logs make for an extremely difficult nut to crack...

Just off the top of my head..., the well known instances of Marine tanks facing off against Japanese tanks that were in the manuver was on Saipan, Tinian, Peliulu and possibly Guam...
They were victorious in most 1 v 1 encounters and ultimately victorious in all unit on unit encounters...

Here's an article that doesn't cover the topic at hand but you might find it interesting anyway (it touches on some of the combat modifications made by Marine Tankers). :


Here's one about Japanese Tanks on Saipan :

Thank you. It is interesting and I will go through it. I never considered before this discussion the impact of armour on the Pacific campaign.
 
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That didn't stop you from making claims about it.
I didn’t make any claims about it. I mentioned planes and torpedos and you started talking armor. In my first response I stated clearly I knew nothing about Japanese tanks. You are just a troll that enjoys senseless arguments on the internet and going on block.
 
Actually I do find this interesting and will need a few days to go through things. The article not so much but the video yes. The article includes general statements like the Japanese had the advantage in the first 18 months. Statements like this are the conventional wisdom. The video is challenging the conventional wisdom. It’s a good thing to do.

I always accept that as time progressed US tactics (dogfighting included) improved much more quickly then the Japanese and that US equipment improved more quickly then the Japanese but always accepted that the Zero had better results at the start of the war. Maybe it’s just false. When I look at statements from Midway time frame I still see complaints from combatants about the superior performance of the Zero. Give me a few days. I will try to track down where the 12-1 kill ratio comes from and try to better understand the timing of relative advantages at the start of the war.

Thank you for your response.

Here's another more in depth article you might enjoy :

 
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