The fact of the matter is the status quo results in Ukraine’s inability to reinforce front line troops first. I haven’t followed it but read they were expanding conscription ages because difficulties now with supply of troops. If it is a battle to last man standing Russia has the advantage.
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- Thread starter Mas-sa-suta
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Putin isn’t mad. He’s bad. Very bad. Willing to keep the human death toll up to get what he wants.
But making this about “we can’t let the bad guy ‘win’” doesn’t seem like a good strategy to me. And it doesn’t change the options I laid out.
Re your solution, it’s my impression Putin won’t agree to that. So what do you do? Placing moral blame on him isn’t going to save lives or mitigate the carnage.
Of course, at the end of the day, I guess it’s the Ukrainian people’s decision if they want to keep fighting. I just don’t think it’s in US national interest to put boots on the ground there (which is what a UN protectorate status would do, I fear).
Well, fortunately we just elected the greatest negotiator the world has ever seen!
Damn straight!!!! The Art of the Deal!!! Written by Tony Schwartz 🤣
I don't want American boots in a war zone.
Russia will not accept American boots in a peacekeeping force. The baby blue helmets will have to be made up of largely African troops. It would be a symbolic force.
But no, Russia did not go to war for that. So we'll have to negotiate. You state Putin is "Very bad". If so, why doesn't the Hitler appeasement analogy fit? It doesn't fit everywhere, different wars are governed by different reasons. But it appear this was a naked power grab where the leader expected the west to be too weak to do anything. If so, it fits the analogy.
If Ukraine is willing to keep fighting, what does it say about us? Does it say that today the west isn't willing to invest money, let alone blood, to stop someone who is "very bad"?
Even I don't want to spend blood, but now being afraid to spend cash seems like a very bad precedent. We cannot, and should not, pressure Ukraine into fighting. If she suffers enough and wants out, she wants out. We should pressure her into some territorial loss, she won't get back 100%. But if Putin won't accept what Ukraine is willing to accept, with some pressure, then I don't see a better option than to tell Ukraine we have her back.
Hitler appeasement analogy doesn’t apply because (1) Russia is a weak military force unlike late 30s Germany, (2) Poland et al aren’t in the same mindset or military position as their 30s counterparts, (3) Hitler probably was partially mad.
We don't know how mad Hitler was. It seems most psychiatrists do not view him as "crazy".
Hitler's military was an illusion. The French would have crushed him the day he marched into the Rhineland. His general staff had a plan to revolt had the French intervened at that point. Even if they had marched in during the invasion of Poland Germany lacked anything to stop them.
In the actual war part, the French made a terrible mistake at Sedan which led to their army being surrounded. Where the French and Germans fought, the French held their own. The German army was less mechanized than the French, and had worse tanks (most were Mark 1 and 2, both were crap). and fewer planes. The French just didn't defend a weak spot and used their tanks totally wrong. Sadly for the French, DeGaulle had been fighting to create a real armored force. But DeGaulle being the DeGaulle jerk he was alienated, well, everyone.
Yes, Russia is weaker than we ever let on. But if there is no disadvantage to attacking and taking part of Lithuania, why wouldn't he? Why wouldn't he go back for more of Ukraine in 5 years? What deterrence do you see that I do not?
Kaliningrad is part of Russia, but completely separated by either Lithuania or Poland (and by Russia's Belarus ally). You don't think Putin could ever decide to take a land bridge through Lithuania to "protect" Kaliningrad?
We aren't spilling blood. The equipment we send is mostly set to be destroyed anyway (of course artillery shells and the like fail that test). So, exactly what are we losing in this war?
Stuka’s were pieces of waste in an air war like over Britain but were effective against ground targets with no air defense.
I read a book that was a collection of eye witness accounts of German soldiers at Normandy. One guy said when they saw all mechanized units with nothing horse drawn the knew they were screwed. The terror that the white phosphorous munitions evoked was debilitating.
They made up for equipment deficiencies with excellent strategy and tactics.
The Japanese equipment at the start of the war was much better than US equipment. Planes and torpedos much better but again superior tactics and strategy prevailed.
The German armored forces were fully mechanized, they were all thrown into that Sedan attack through the Ardennes. The rest of the army, 80+%, was WW1.
If you want a really detailed book, the Shirer wrote Collapse of the Third Republic. It is very detailed, but goes deep into the political rot in France as well as the military. The Rise of Germany by Holland goes into the battle and explains how France blew it, far less reading. France had the tanks, but scattered them to be nothing more than infantry support. They were better armed and armored, but very slow as they only needed to move as fast as walking infantry. Heck, the Russians had better equipment. A half dozen KV1 tanks almost stopped Army Group North in 1941. Their offensive routed everything including 1st Panzer until they came across some 88s. Because the tanks didn't have radios, the same shortcoming the French had with their tanks, they couldn't develop a plan of attack. The result was they were lost in a suicidal charge. But German tanks, again mostly Mark 1 and 2 with some 3s, had no answer for a KV1 and not many answers for T34s.
But aside from Case Yellow, both in Rhineland and Poland the French had opportunities to stop Hitler decisively. They chose not to. Their army immediately believed every wild exaggeration of German strength they heard. I wonder if Union General McClellan was their muse?
Good for Levin. Unfortunately he’s also blind to the fact that a faction within MAGA is pro-Putin, pro-Russia, and anti-Ukraine. We have them here and I see them on Facebook.It's worth mentioning that under its constitution, Ukraine must postpone elections under martial law during times of war, which the country was forced to do due to the Russian invasion.
MAGA Host Mark Levin Just Debunked Trump's Ukraine Lies Live On Air
When Donald's lies are too deranged even for MAGA 👀www.comicsands.com
People are dying. Real people.
Does that harm US interests? No. Is it something compassionate human being should consider? Yes.
I like Shirer and will read it.
As for the French it is all too common, when you believe things that aren’t true it leads to inappropriate action. Most of the time no big deal but in war it’s of existential importance.
You mention McClellan. The story of General Hull surrendering Detroit in the War of 1812 to Brock is another case of wrong beliefs.. Brock convinced Hull that a large uncontrollable Native American force would descend on Detroit and do unspeakable things and so Hull surrendered Detroit after a single cannon shot. There was no such force and Hull was court-martialled.
They should, but isn't that up to Ukraine? Should France have ordered us to cave to Britain in the Revolution because people were dying?Why do we assume Ukraine cannot make this choice? Russia is making their choice.
I have said a couple of times, the second Ukraine says they want out, out they go. I don't want to force them in for one second longer. But IF they choose death over subjugation why do our values require us to say that is incorrect?
If you liked Rise and Fall you will like this one.
France was monumentally screwed politically. The left and right hated each other. The left wanted nothing to do with the military, the right 1) did not see Hitler as a danger and 2) even if they did they sure did not want any help from Russia. It goes far deeper and includes a worship of WW1 that prevented all real innovation.
I did like it.
At this point I think Maginot Line and Petain still fighting WW1 so look forward to reading about it in depth.
They don't. That's what I wrote above. I'm trying to lay out options with costs and benefits. The "who chooses" question comes next.
Vance has answers for you, though, that involve US interests. His tweet and response from Ferguson are worth reading.
Isn't "there is a thought-provoking tweet" similar to "I think that cat vomit is very thought-provoking"?
Ukraine should be drafting men 18 and older. I believe the draft age now is 26 or 28?
In a fight for your existence, Ukraine should be either all in or expect to give some concessions.
If I was Zelensky, I'd promise Trump everything - give the US some incentive to back him. Then slow-walk the agreements when/if Ukraine has possession of those rare earth minerals. Trump won't be President after 2028 and Ukraine could do whatever the hell they want after that, because no other US President is going to send troops or cause a stir in Ukraine.
Guy I knew who was on Omaha Beach on D-Day always said they were outgunned by German weapons.
He always used the example of our .30 caliber water-cooled machine guns, which overheated constantly and took forever to reload, while the German machine guns could be reloaded in a much shorter time (sorry, I'm not an arms expert - I'm sure someone here knows more about it than I do).
The Japanese equipment may have been better, but the survivability of their planes and tanks were worse than ours.
British intelligence was excellent vs Germany and our intelligence service - and sheer guts of our Navy pilots - won the Battle of Midway, which turned the tide of the war to put us on offense.
I don't know why this would be a surprise for Levin. He's been consistent in his support for Ukraine funding.
He's principled, which many here aren't when Biden was issuing illegal Executive Orders and denied he was senile when it was obvious to the world.
You should listen to Harold Ford Jr. on The Five on Fox. He's a principled Democrat - one of the few - who can exchange views with conservatives in an honest way.
How weird they are talking about him in the present tense......
This is right up there with the "Putin is going to die any minute" BS.
Did you ever watch The Big Chill? Jeff Goldblum works for a National Enquirer type publication and says it is his job to write stories that take as long to read as the average crap.
That would be a massive step up for Twitter. The purpose is instant reactions. I want the reasoned reaction. We see the tweets that come here, get a narrative out there, truth be damned. People won't remember the real narrative but that 1st narrative.
I had to have a Twitter account for a job. That was back in the 140 character limit days. It sucked. If someone wants to put thoughts on a blog or other site, great. But I have no interest in letting any owner of Twitter profit a penny by me, and doubly saw for the current owner.
Exactly. The problem comes when you take everything at face value. But if you go through to the source information it acts as a great news aggregator.
There are a lot of mediums for information that is far less just klnaked self-promotion. The immediacy makes even serious people to make bad takes just to get out on what is current.
I don't care what people think caused the DC jet-helicopter crash, just what is determined to be the answer. There is nothing wrong with waiting. Look at Elon, pretty much all his DOGE tweets turns out to be dead wrong.
So following tweets encourages this. I don't care if it is someone who is on "my team", I have no interest in following.
But Elon doesn't need nor deserve any of my support. If he bought the Reds I would switch teams.
I agree. It speeds it the race to get out information even more than TV.
I disagree. I think people do this already and always have done it. Take DOGE, we won't know if its good or bad for a another year or two. However, we all have opinions already on it and have drawn our conclusions well before the results are in. The bigger issue is people rarely go back and reevaluate whether they are right and wrong in my opinion.
For your sake, I hope he does buy the Reds and you join the Cubs bandwagon. I'm going full fanboy and predicting the Cubs making the NLCS.
Niall Ferguson is a serious person. Vance's response was serious, even if you disagree. It's linked in another thread. They are better written and more thought out than 99% of the posts here (except yours and mine, of course
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That deaf, dumb, and blind kid The Who wrote about is better than 99% here, and that certainly includes me. But not you.Niall Ferguson is a serious person. Vance's response was serious, even if you disagree. It's linked in another thread. They are better written and more thought out than 99% of the posts here (except yours and mine, of course
Do you follow Vance? How many crappy Tweets did you have to read to get to that one serious one?
Just join something like below. The signal to noise ratio is far better than Twitter.
I only look at Twitter when someone texts me something or someone posts it on here. I have the app, but have never posted a single Tweet, I don't think.That deaf, dumb, and blind kid The Who wrote about is better than 99% here, and that certainly includes me. But not you.
Do you follow Vance? How many crappy Tweets did you have to read to get to that one serious one?
Just join something like below. The signal to noise ratio is far better than Twitter.
He's not "from Indiana" he just happened to breifly live here with mom& dad after his Commie parents (from NY) allowed him to be co-opted (while in China) and radicalized by a Commie Intel officer...
Too bad the fool didn't think to ask why all that collective farm land had been abandoned in the communist utopia...
Someone needs to take a Hard, in depth, look at what his mother and father are up to these days...
I will look at screenshots of tweets.
I did try to go to Twitter on my phone maybe 6 months ago. It wanted me to confirm I was me by entering my birthday. It was a simple calendar with a button to get to the birthday. To go back 60 years would require 720 back pushes. It would not allow me the enter a day. Terrible design. The genius let me down. Just was confirmation I shouldn't go.
I know you are stupid, but even you should understand the distinction between the 'enemy' action of arresting enemy agents, and our 'friend' imprisoning our citizens and murdering them.
But, It's likely beyond you...
murder? He died of pneumonia…..you can even read his letter to his family that says that very same thing. Oh sure, you will say that he was forced to say it, blah blah blah. At the end of the day, you’re stuck in the tunnel, with the hoodie over your head, pants down around your ankles, plotting your revenge with selected writings Alexsander Dugin. Spare us your phony moral high ground
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