Mgbako can make us an actual good team. He did today with about 90 seconds of good play. When he's playing like that we're a contender..
Fantastic win….. That’s the best center in the portal.
- Thread starter Cavanagh
- Start date
I'll cut to the chase lol
So we started out ranked, got boat-raced by Louisville, Gonzaga and Nebraska, plummeted all the way OUT of the Tourney picture, have now shown signs of life and gotten back to the bubble probably, but the season is almost half done and we're starting to be pigeon-holed by the cpus and we've got a B1G schedule...I did it in my head but by my math we are tracking for about 18.5 wins...which I am pretty confident wouldn't be enough...I'm thinking we probably need 20 or 21 plus a tournament win or two...
Is that about the size of it?
My prognostication is that we are in false hope phase I but by the end of the month that will be a distant memory, but then with a few games to go we'll initiate false hope phase II only to fall just short at the last possible moment.
Sorry I hope I'm wrong but 🫣😳
So we started out ranked, got boat-raced by Louisville, Gonzaga and Nebraska, plummeted all the way OUT of the Tourney picture, have now shown signs of life and gotten back to the bubble probably, but the season is almost half done and we're starting to be pigeon-holed by the cpus and we've got a B1G schedule...I did it in my head but by my math we are tracking for about 18.5 wins...which I am pretty confident wouldn't be enough...I'm thinking we probably need 20 or 21 plus a tournament win or two...
Is that about the size of it?
My prognostication is that we are in false hope phase I but by the end of the month that will be a distant memory, but then with a few games to go we'll initiate false hope phase II only to fall just short at the last possible moment.
Sorry I hope I'm wrong but 🫣😳
We can’t win the way I want to win with Leal. So Kanaan better get his shit together
12-8 should do it. 11-9 and maybe one or two in conf tourney.
We really don't have too many guards. Our available guards that actually play are:
Galloway
Rice
Leal
Carlyle
(Newton and Cupps are injured.)
Burke, Rayford, Goodis, Bobbett, Creel, and Stephens are listed as guards on the roster, but I don't know if any of them have ever been in a game.
If Leal wasn’t a white kid from Bloomington he wouldn’t even be on the team. Well maybe add he kissed Woody’s ass on senior day.
Perhaps keep Reneau on the baseline far from the lane and pull his defender away from the basket, to allow the guards opportunities to drive if Ballo is doubled? Reneau charges the rim to rebound perimeter shots. Or just alternate them every 5 minutes? We definitely look much more in sync when only Ballo patrols the paint.
Malik is more of an outside threat. And better going to the basket off the dribble. I’d have Malik in more high pick and roll actions… let the defense dictate how you play off that. Maybe put Ballo in a dunker spot…and again, depending on how defense guards high pick and roll…would dictate what Ballo does.
If they hard hedge and try to trap that pick and roll…Malik rolls to pocket to receive pass at free throw line. He drives to rim looking to score, or kick out or dump down to Ballo depending on what defense does.
If they drop big man, Malik pops, Rice attacks gap hard… Ballo ducks in to post up or be ready for lob if Rice is able to turn corner and his defender has to help.
It Malik pops, and Rice attacks into gap, Malik goes and sets screen for opposite wing to fill back at top of key for a kick back out from Rice. If that guy gets the ball, and he doesn’t have a shot…Malik ball screens him and we’re back in the original reads.
Another set that could work well would be Rice and Gallo start two high… Mack dunker spot same side as ball. Malik on Mack’s side block, Oumar on opposite ball block. Rice and Gallo dribble invert, Mack follows off two baseline block screens heading towards ball. Initial look is Mack for baseline 3 or Ballo on block. Malik rolls to top of key after he sets initual Mack screen. Gallo spaces to opposite wing/corner. We have an overload set now. If Rice still has his dribble, his read after looking for Mack and Oumar is either passing back to Malik…who then looks high low and/or rips and attacks open side to score or kick to Gallo. If Malik is guarded, Rice dribbles off a Malik screen in key area. He looks to turn corner and score and/or kick to Gallo.
I would also run some simple down screen action getting Malik the ball curling around the free throw line area. Have Mack, Luke, or Gallo set the screen. Someone that can pop out to wing and be a threat to draw defenders away from Malik.
Basically 2-3 different sets that work to get Malik the ball in spots free throw line extended + have some opportunities for double gaps towards guys like Gallo/Luke/Mack… giving Oumar the freedom to move in and out, dunker spot to dunker spot on baselines, and get Myles and/or Gallo going off high pick and roll action regularly.
In defense, I’d drop both Malik and Oumar off their men defensively on ball or any big/guard screening, and have perimeter players switch all other actions. My son’s high school team is very effective switching guard to guard this way, rarely getting caught with our big having to switch. Just exaggerate the drop, give guard defenders plenty of room to get over or under screens.
Yeah, but if this team can get anywhere near it's ceiling, it's going to take Carlyle coming around and being on the floor. At least as a perimeter defender (which I think is this team's biggest weakness) and energy guy. Unfortunately I'm afraid he sees his indentity as a shooter/scorer and is letting his struggle there undermine the rest of his game.
Hypothetically, what if he was a black guy from Bloomington? Bled everything IU, Mr basketball, willing to be a valuable practice player with little playing time, a positive teammate and leader. Someone who could potentially come off the bench later in his career to give a couple of positive minutes.
Would he have any shot of being recruited to IU?
I believe race had nothing to do with Leal being at IU.
Well he's bi-racial and had several P5 offers including multiple B10 offers.
Leal is absolutely fine in certain lineups and does little things that don't show up in the box score. He's certainly a more net positive player over Carlisle and him playing 10-15 mpg really doesn't bother me nor hurt the team.
Well considering Leal’s dad is black, I guess this question is silly. I do love that 90% of our fans think he’s white though lol.
He doesn’t step foot on the floor for a top 25 team. He gets burned a lot and can’t shoot. Him knowing where to be and slowing down the tempo doesn’t offset that.
He was Mr Basketball, and led a very, very good Bloomington South team to an undefeated season his senior year. Very possibly would have won a state title that year, but the season ended after Sectionals due to Covid. Not all Mr Basketball's are created equal...but there aren't many that are scrubs. He's a very good basketball player.
Ethan Morton played plenty for a Purdue team that was ranked #1 in the country for the better part of the last two years. Not sure you know what you're talking about. He's probably our best perimeter defender outside Galloway and Rice and has a nose for the ball and the ball moves when he is in.
I agree that putting him on the floor with Carlisle and Tucker is a big no-no, but in a lineup with Trey, Rice, Goode/Mgbako at the 4...absolutely he fits.
Ethan Morton was atrocious and didn’t play more than 3 mins in the last 10 games for PU. There was a reason PU didn’t put him on the floor in the tourney and why he transferred. He’s sucks balls.
Leal is an awful defender, but so are Mack and Goode. We don’t have much in front of him. And Kanaan is a better defender high on cocaine than Leal. His legs don’t work like normal athletes, very slow.
"Plenty"? last year he averaged 10 min/gam and 0.6ppg. Morton had absolutely nothing to do with Purdue being ranked #1 most of the past 2 seasons.
Morton had 2 jobs on offense- 1. feed the Big Ogre, and 2. don't do anything stupid.
We're not ranked #1 and we don't have Edey in the middle. We need more production from everyone on the court. I actually like Leal, but have accepted that he's not a Jordy Hulls-level shooter . He does have bball smarts..he's just a little lacking in quickness.
He isn't an awful defender and he brings much more positive to the floor than Carlisle on both ends. The ball doesn't move when Carlisle is in. Playing Leal in a hockey line substitution pattern is dumb, playing him situationally in the right lineup combo isn't. I don't ever recall Carlisle being in any kind of late game or late half situation and there's a good reason for that.
I'm not advocating for Leal to play 25+ mpg or be a heavy rotational player. I think 10-15 is appropriate which was Morton's role for Purdue the last two years. How many times does Carlisle or Tucker feed the post or reverse the ball? Practically zero. And when they're in the game, a shot it going up almost immediately. A 37% shooter and a 28% shooter jacking up a shot every possession is essentially a turnover. Leal has 2 turnovers on the season. I think he's earned some of Carlisle's minutes. Leal has played 17 and 18 mpg the last two games and the team has had their two best offensive showing of the season. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Last edited:
Not only did race have nothing to do with it, the entire narrative around Leal is revisionist history.
When Leal was recruited he was a 4-star top 75 kid. He had other high major offers and his other finalist was Stanford. He just hasn't worked out. That happens. There are plenty of 4-star kids that just don't develop, and Leal hasn't turned into a great player.
But he plays hard, is a good teammate, and doesnt pout. He didn't transfer when he could have and he probably would have gotten more minutes somewhere else.
Not many Indiana kids can say they hit a game winner at IU, but he can, and he did it by outworking more talented kids and by taking advantage of the opportunity that presented itself. Pretty good story.
Leal does a solid job. Quit looking at box scores and pay attention. Hustles, works hard on D and communicates.
You sound stupid as usual. Unbelievable how dumb you really are. Leal has played 2 solid games in a row. Does a lot of little things to help a team. Things fans like you couldn’t possibly understand. Much rather have him than Carlyle right now.
I think "hot Kanaan" probably does raise our ceiling a little bit more than what Leal would provide. The problem with that though, is that with how Kanaan plays, even if he is hot, he's taking shots and plays away from our other guys that are more consistently showing they can make plays and shots...like Rice, Mack, and Gallo. So the NET gain probably isn't all that much.
To me, the difference ends up being how they're defending. Early in the year, Kanaan was our best perimeter defender. If he can get back to that, I see a much stronger case for him to get those "Leal/Carlyle" minutes. I suspect, to Woodson's credit, he's seeing the dropoff defensively, and just overall aggressiveness...and he knows at that point, Leal is a MUCH better option.
Leal has value for this team. There are 2-4 games in the last 2 years we don't win without him. So, he's been valuable even if he isn't a good locker room guy who knows what everyone is supposed to be doing. And, my guess is with this roster that doesn't seem to have starters who are natural leaders, his value is even more important and perhaps why a player with so little statistical impact has been as important as he's been. Both he and Goode have helped us win games, Leal more last game and Goode yesterday.
There are only so many game minutes to divy up, but having guys like Leal and Goode on the bench can still be valuable.
I don't recall Leal ever being ranked top 100. I have no problem with him being on the roster, or getting minutes, but I would think his minutes largely depend on if Carlyle can come around in some form or not.
I always said I thought they should have prioritized Leal or Galloway and not taken 2 kids with overlapping skills (and weaknesses) in the same class. Nothing has ever changed my mind on that.
Cant shoot? You should never discuss basketball again. Needs to shoot more is what you should be saying. Carlyle is the guy that can’t shoot. Difference is he shoots way too much. If he had Leals IQ he would be a lot more valuable.
Until Carlyle shows he can come into the game and NOT play likes he’s trying to set a record for most shot attempts in 2 minutes, Leal is a much better option. Right now, it’s not close.
We have no idea what's going on in practices. But I HOPE Woody is in Carlyle's ear that his path back to playing major minutes hinges on him getting that nastiness and aggressiveness back defensively. And I hope he's showing him on film, and in his ear in practices, how he can be attacking the paint offensively, AND moving the ball around better. We have seen in season improvements from a decent amount of guys, on things like this, during Woody's tenure. So hopefully Kanaan is getting that from the staff, and he takes it to heart. We sure could use his athleticism.
It would be a "its your decision whether you want to play or not" type conversation. And that decision will be made by how you play defense, and how you help us offensively. If you continue to play passive/poor defense, and continue to just take 3s and settle for longer shots off the dribble...you'll continue to see your minutes drop. If you get back to defending like a dawg, and start attacking the paint and distributing more...your minutes will rise again.
Sorry Bub when you say something stupid be ready for backlash. You aren’t worth punching in the face.
To me the issue is that although Reneau is great with the ball in his hands, his jump shot, rebounding and defense aren't good enough to put him at the 4.
Ballo isn't as good as Reneau with the ball in his hands, but he still gives us a lot offensively, and most importantly he provides more rebounding and a stronger defensive presence. It's tough to consider us being better as a cohesive team without Reneau because Reneau is our best offensive threat but if all of that gets negated for any or all of the reasons I outlined, we aren't maximizing the team's potential.
I think Malik is a similar level outside shooter to everyone not named Mackenzie in our lineup. And he's better than anyone in our lineup at scoring going to the basket, and/or making moves and scoring in the paint. He isn't great in traditional post situations...Oumar is a bit better there. But he's basically unstoppable 1 on 1, when he catches the ball with any sort of space to work 15 feet or so in. I would work to get him in those spots, WITH BALL AND PLAYER MOVEMENT, in various ways.
The one area where I feel like Malik and/or Woodson have failed thus far is developing Malik's willingness and ability to pass effectively out of those situations.
That's one of the things that changed our team TJD's senior year, when he started passing more out of his post opportunities. At times, posting up as far away as 17-18 feet from the basket, I think intentionally, to give more space for others to move and work for his passes. This team becomes a completely different level if Malik becomes an effective passer off his moves to the basket.
Go back to the premie I really don’t wanna have to make fun of you again.
Four-star recruit Anthony Leal commits to IU
The hometown kid will continue his basketball career on the north side of Bloomington
www.crimsonquarry.com
He was top 100 when he committed. He had been ranked higher, but kept falling.
In theory there's nothing wrong with taking 2 wings in a class. Trouble is neither of them are killers. Still, they weren't recruited because they are white.
Might be extreme but he should be at the end of the bench with the walkons. If he’s playing minutes that matter we’re worse than I thought.
If he was sitting to the right of Woodson helping coach instead of the Statue I that might be helpful.
