European Basketball

[sglowrider]

Crazy atmosphere:

No wonder European NBA players are such good FT shooters. Imagine trying to take FTs under those conditions.

 

[sglowrider]

Why Europeans are Taking Over the NBA​

 

[CriticArisen]

Considering NIL changes high end US athletes to pro status, the European club system does have advantages over the US school/AAU system. It provides consistent coaching with a consistent team oriented toward team play rather than the 1 on 1 rip the rim down social media highlights play of AAU ball.

AAU is not good preparation for University bball. It biases player selection to 1 on 1 power players and big guys actually guard the rim in university basketball.

I really like your average day calculation

 

[sglowrider]

Considering NIL changes high end US athletes to pro status, the European club system does have advantages over the US school/AAU system. It provides consistent coaching with a consistent team oriented toward team play rather than the 1 on 1 rip the rim down social media highlights play of AAU ball.

AAU is not good preparation for University bball. It biases player selection to 1 on 1 power players and big guys actually guard the rim in university basketball.

I really like your average day calculation

I also brought up the European players potentially dominating in the NBA in light of the Wembanyama performances the past couple of games.

 

[IUNorth]

Considering NIL changes high end US athletes to pro status, the European club system does have advantages over the US school/AAU system. It provides consistent coaching with a consistent team oriented toward team play rather than the 1 on 1 rip the rim down social media highlights play of AAU ball.

AAU is not good preparation for University bball. It biases player selection to 1 on 1 power players and big guys actually guard the rim in university basketball.

I really like your average day calculation

For what its worth...there are a lot of AAU programs that are great preparation for college ball. In fact, I would say the balance between school ball and AAU ball is essential for most kids nowadays, in preparing them for college ball.

Obviously there are bad AAU programs...really bad ones. But I've watched too many 35-28 school ball games, with minute plus possessions, triple teams on star players, etc... to know that the good players, that have college aspirations, will benefit from the more open style most AAU teams have...not to mention the increased speed of the game in AAU. Which is one of the bigger adjustments kids have to make when they get to college.

 

[CriticArisen]

For what its worth...there are a lot of AAU programs that are great preparation for college ball. In fact, I would say the balance between school ball and AAU ball is essential for most kids nowadays, in preparing them for college ball.

Obviously there are bad AAU programs...really bad ones. But I've watched too many 35-28 school ball games, with minute plus possessions, triple teams on star players, etc... to know that the good players, that have college aspirations, will benefit from the more open style most AAU teams have...not to mention the increased speed of the game in AAU. Which is one of the bigger adjustments kids have to make when they get to college.

I agree that AAU is better than pick up games at the school yard but it falls short of the Euro system for elite player development.

I am not a fan of things Euro but do do believe their system is superior In this case.

 

[BirdAlfordBailey]

I've always been against a shot clock, but I've been to European countries, and other continents in which 12 and 13 year olds have played with the 24 second shot clock, and it looks better than most basketball I watch around here at the same age. Passing and cutting and screening away, you forget there is a shot clock.

 

[IUNorth]

I agree that AAU is better than pick up games at the school yard but it falls short of the Euro system for elite player development.

I am not a fan of things Euro but do do believe their system is superior In this case.

I think as an entire system, you're probably right. But a kid that plays for a good school ball program, and a good AAU program, is getting really, really good preparation for college and beyond.

I can't stress enough how important and beneficial I think the differing styles and types of games school ball and AAU ball can provide. Depending on the program a kid might come up through in Europe, he might play the exact same system from age 13 to age 18. And if that system doesn't jive well with American college ball, then that kid is at a huge disadvantage to his American counterparts coming in to college.

As with everything, times are changing too. I played with and against a decent amount of European players back when I played. To a man, they were all well behind the American players in their ability to defend, and with how they handled physical play. That gap is obviously closing. But its not completely closed, in my opinion. Most of the recent natty winners have been led by American kids, that came up through the school/AAU programs. Arizona, Gonzaga, Creighton...St Marys...teams that have a higher percentage of foreign players...they have really good programs going. But they nearly always end up losing to a more physical, more athletic, team that's led by a bunch of "dudes" that came up through the AAU system.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

in that one clip, is that safety/bulletproof glass protecting the players' backs on the bench?

 

[CriticArisen]

I think as an entire system, you're probably right. But a kid that plays for a good school ball program, and a good AAU program, is getting really, really good preparation for college and beyond.

I can't stress enough how important and beneficial I think the differing styles and types of games school ball and AAU ball can provide. Depending on the program a kid might come up through in Europe, he might play the exact same system from age 13 to age 18. And if that system doesn't jive well with American college ball, then that kid is at a huge disadvantage to his American counterparts coming in to college.

As with everything, times are changing too. I played with and against a decent amount of European players back when I played. To a man, they were all well behind the American players in their ability to defend, and with how they handled physical play. That gap is obviously closing. But its not completely closed, in my opinion. Most of the recent natty winners have been led by American kids, that came up through the school/AAU programs. Arizona, Gonzaga, Creighton...St Marys...teams that have a higher percentage of foreign players...they have really good programs going. But they nearly always end up losing to a more physical, more athletic, team that's led by a bunch of "dudes" that came up through the AAU system.

This post was about developing NBA players and I shouldn’t have mixed in AAU to university. It is complex enough without mixing in something else.

My response to your comments above is that for elite Euro players the entry point to US basketball is now the NBA draft. They prefer staying in the Euro system until they are draft eligible.

As for AAU to university there have been numerous similar discussions here and we would have to agree some metric to have a basis for comparison. When I look at recent national champions I find they are not lead by some five star AAU phenom-No. Most have three returning starters and the team is lead by a returning starter. The only AAU phenom I can think of that lead his team to a national championship was AD at KY.

I am having problems with this page constantly reloading so keeping this brief.

 

[IUNorth]

This post was about developing NBA players and I shouldn’t have mixed in AAU to university. It is complex enough without mixing in something else.

My response to your comments above is that for elite Euro players the entry point to US basketball is now the NBA draft. They prefer staying in the Euro system until they are draft eligible.

As for AAU to university there have been numerous similar discussions here and we would have to agree some metric to have a basis for comparison. When I look at recent national champions I find they are not lead by some five star AAU phenom-No. Most have three returning starters and the team is lead by a returning starter. The only AAU phenom I can think of that lead his team to a national championship was AD at KY.

I am having problems with this page constantly reloading so keeping this brief.

Gotcha...

Every single one of those 3+ year players leading teams to Natty's, were AAU phenoms, I can assure you.

The Cooper Flagg's of the world just bring tons more people to the gym. There are HUNDREDS of phenoms running around AAU tournaments every summer.

Obviously, it can't be argued that there are more NBA ready Euro kids nowadays, than there used to be. But using this past draft as an example...there were what looks to be 6 kids that came up fully through the Euro system, and directly to the NBA. Around 45-50 of them came up through US HS/AAU/College ball. A couple that played foreign ball, then flipped to G League Ignite type ball the last year or two. (there were 58 total picks).

Still many more kids coming in to the league through AAU/College system than other feeder systems.

 

[CriticArisen]

in that one clip, is that safety/bulletproof glass protecting the players' backs on the bench?

I heard a story about the first Euro player in college ball (something like Kresimir Cosic at BYU in the 60’s or 70’. He was from Yugoslavia or someplace in Eastern Europe). some reporter asked him about his high hustle motor and he replied-in my country they throw rocks at me if I don’t hustle.

 

[CriticArisen]

Gotcha...

Every single one of those 3+ year players leading teams to Natty's, were AAU phenoms, I can assure you.

The Cooper Flagg's of the world just bring tons more people to the gym. There are HUNDREDS of phenoms running around AAU tournaments every summer.

Obviously, it can't be argued that there are more NBA ready Euro kids nowadays, than there used to be. But using this past draft as an example...there were what looks to be 6 kids that came up fully through the Euro system, and directly to the NBA. Around 45-50 of them came up through US HS/AAU/College ball. A couple that played foreign ball, then flipped to G League Ignite type ball the last year or two. (there were 58 total picks).

Still many more kids coming in to the league through AAU/College system than other feeder systems.

So many issues to resolve in this discussion. By phenoms my meaning is five stars and no the Huskies were not loaded with five stars. The reason they are lead by returning players is because it takes time to get the AAU out of their system and coach them up to a winning bball style.

 

[Chicago-bound Hoosier]

I heard a story about the first Euro player in college ball (something like Kresimir Cosic at BYU in the 60’s or 70’. He was from Yugoslavia or someplace in Eastern Europe). some reporter asked him about his high hustle motor and he replied-in my country they throw rocks at me if I don’t hustle.

I SEE YOU MESSIER!! WE'RE COMING AFTER YOU, MESSIER !!!

 

[IUNorth]

So many issues to resolve in this discussion. By phenoms my meaning is five stars and no the Huskies were not loaded with five stars. The reason they are lead by returning players is because it takes time to get the AAU out of their system and coach them up to a winning bball style.

Ehhh... I think that's a lazy argument...unless you've looked at each of the specific players, and know what HS and AAU programs they've played for... I'm assuming you haven't though??

It is possible you're right. But I'd be very surprised if more than a few of those kids didn't play for solid AAU programs.

The rise in popularity of schools like Monteverde, is also a changing dynamic for American HS kids. Not sure if its helping or not, but it does give the top kids a higher level of competition in practices and games, from August through April, than what traditional American High Schools do.

So are we talking about a kid playing for Ben Davis and Indy Heat, versus Euro clubs? Or Ben Davis, Montverde, Indy Heat...?

Tough to make generalizations on this one. Even when you start narrowing it down.

 

[CriticArisen]

Europe has a much smaller bbal playing population than the US. Those with elite athletic skills play Soccer as a first choice.

 

[CriticArisen]

Ehhh... I think that's a lazy argument...unless you've looked at each of the specific players, and know what HS and AAU programs they've played for... I'm assuming you haven't though??

It is possible you're right. But I'd be very surprised if more than a few of those kids didn't play for solid AAU programs.

The rise in popularity of schools like Monteverde, is also a changing dynamic for American HS kids. Not sure if its helping or not, but it does give the top kids a higher level of competition in practices and games, from August through April, than what traditional American High Schools do.

So are we talking about a kid playing for Ben Davis and Indy Heat, versus Euro clubs? Or Ben Davis, Montverde, Indy Heat...?

Tough to make generalizations on this one. Even when you start narrowing it down.

i have looked these types of things up so many times. Neither Sanogo nor Hawkins nor Jackson were five star.

 

[IUNorth]

i have looked these types of things up so many times. Neither Sanogo nor Hawkins nor Jackson were five star.

I understand that...but what HS/AAU programs did they play for?

Might be that they grew a couple inches in college? Might be that they came in at 175 lbs, and 2 years later were 205. Might be that they were young for their class, and came in to school at a young 18?

Also might be they played for some crappy programs, and it took Hurley that long to coach them up?

 

[CriticArisen]

I agree about complicating factors and agree about Monteverdi Lumiere and the new team out of Atlanta that the Thompson twins played for.

 

[Hatchets7times]

For what its worth...there are a lot of AAU programs that are great preparation for college ball. In fact, I would say the balance between school ball and AAU ball is essential for most kids nowadays, in preparing them for college ball.

Obviously there are bad AAU programs...really bad ones. But I've watched too many 35-28 school ball games, with minute plus possessions, triple teams on star players, etc... to know that the good players, that have college aspirations, will benefit from the more open style most AAU teams have...not to mention the increased speed of the game in AAU. Which is one of the bigger adjustments kids have to make when they get to college.

Steve Zeller told me those AAU teams Cody played on were great..Not the roll the ball out.But ran set plays and demanded kids to be accountable..
Course he played on the elite ones too..Some are ran well.. Others not so well..

 

[IUNorth]

Steve Zeller told me those AAU teams Cody played on were great..Not the roll the ball out.But ran set plays and demanded kids to be accountable..
Course he played on the elite ones too..Some are ran well.. Others not so well..

There are a lot of really good programs out there. And one of the things that is a fairly common thread for most of them, is they play very, very hard...they play very physical...and they play very fast. Any of them that have any sort of good structure in place, they provide an excellent environment for the players to grow and improve.

There absolutely are the bad, stereotypical, "AAU Ball" type programs still around...lots of them actually.

 

[CriticArisen]

Hawkins had 31 pts for New Orleans last night and 7/14 from 3 against Nuggets. Jokic had 35 pts, 14 rebounds, and 12 assists. Ridiculous that he wasn’t mvp again last season.

 

[IUNorth]

Hawkins had 31 pts for New Orleans last night and 7/14 from 3 against Nuggets. Jokic had 35 pts, 14 rebounds, and 12 assists. Ridiculous that he wasn’t mvp again last season.

I don't know if Hawkins has the 3 level game to become a superstar, but man, he sure looks darn good so far! I could easily see him becoming a Klay Thompson like guard. That Pelicans team could be on to something special for a while, if they can keep their main guys together for more than a year or two.