Do Americans Still Value “Honesty”?

[MyTeamIsOnTheFloor]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

 

[Cortez88]

Unfortunately, not like we used to. There is currently no penalty for flat out lying. People who engage in outright lying no longer feel shame when they are exposed. They just shrug and move on to the next lie.

 

[BradStevens]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing plater and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

I doubt honesty will ever be irrelevant when conducting business.

If I determine a vendor is dishonest, I do not do business with them, even if they are cheaper than their competitors. And if a business is dishonest enough, often it will get sued and will pay a cost (if judges enforce those laws).

I'd also argue that just the fact that a politician cannot come right out and say "I was being dishonest" means that it is still important.

 

[jet812]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

I think it is not as important as a whole. There was a perfect example just today in which another poster was dismissive of dishonest behavior as it relates to elections so long as it wasn’t illegal, so that poster in particular can speak to that mindset & how it is becoming more prevalent. @Aloha Hoosier , can you expand on why you don’t feel honesty matters anymore, if it ever did to you?

 

[snarlcakes]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

The fiat system is a cancerous broken system built on lies that infects everything it touches. Bitcoin fixes this. Mark Twain was a Bitcoiner.

 

[Bulk VanderHuge]

The fiat system is a cancerous broken system built on lies that infects everything it touches. Bitcoin fixes this. Mark Twain was a Bitcoiner.

He couldn't even tell the truth about his name.

 

[VanPastorMan]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

One issue I don't like is how our Press has lied, covered up lies, or stopped others from telling the truth. An example is the Hunter Biden laptop. They suppressed the story because it could affect the election. So the Press picks winners and losers. That is not right and not why they exist Constitutionally. They are supposed to report the truth and keep an eye that the government is working Constitutionally.

 

[cosmickid]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

“tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.”

I assume this is a typo, but not sure what you mean to type?

At any rate, back to your OP question...

This is just a sampling of folks polled by Fox News, so like most of the other polls it doesn't really predict how people will vote.

But you mentioned "honesty" and according to these particular respondents, it's the main positive attribute of Biden that Biden voters point to over Trump...

Just thought it was interesting that after I watched this I came back to the board and saw your thread...

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I think it is not as important as a whole. There was a perfect example just today in which another poster was dismissive of dishonest behavior as it relates to elections so long as it wasn’t illegal, so that poster in particular can speak to that mindset & how it is becoming more prevalent. @Aloha Hoosier , can you expand on why you don’t feel honesty matters anymore, if it ever did to you?

There is no way you could [honestly] think honesty isn't important to me. Of course honesty is very important to me. It's an important trait for our Presidential candidates to have too. You're making a mountain out of a molehill concerning where voters vote in the primary. I've long thought voters should be able to vote in either primary. I kind of like open primaries. I don't think there's any dishonesty to that - at least not more than a minute amount.

 

[snarlcakes]

He couldn't even tell the truth about his name.

Neither could Satoshi Nakamoto.

 

[cosmickid]

One issue I don't like is how our Press has lied, covered up lies, or stopped others from telling the truth. An example is the Hunter Biden laptop. They suppressed the story because it could affect the election. So the Press picks winners and losers. That is not right and not why they exist Constitutionally. They are supposed to report the truth and keep an eye that the government is working Constitutionally.

The Press didn't suppress the story. It was in the NY Post for anyone that wanted to read it to read it. In fact some people at the Post resigned because the Post printed it...

Can we get something straight. Joe Biden was elected POTUS in Nov of 2020. Prior to that Trump was the Govt, his FBI director, his DOJ/AG, the Senate and Presidency were controlled by the GOP...

That was the power balance up until Jan 5 when the Dems won the Senate (in the GA runoff) and then Jan 21 when Biden was inaugurated. Republicans keep spreading thses talking points about the FBI and DOJ "helping" Biden,because they know their target audience is too stupid and naive to actually go back and think things thru (and match up dates)...

Now I wonder exactly what you "think" you know about "Hunter's laptop"? You may want to go back and read thru some of the info Alexander Smirnov has supplied to DOJ invetigators since his arrest earlier this year for lying to the FBI. He specifically says that when he was submitting the DF-1023 of accusing Biden of being bribed, or spreading accusations he was doing so as part of a GRU plot to embarrass both Biden and Ukraine...

As to the laptop itself, Lev Parnas testified before a Congressional Committee "investigating" Biden back in 2020, that Rudy knew about Hunter's laptop prior to the time he supposedly heard about it in Dec 2019.In fact Lev recounted a spring 2019 meeting at a restaurant in NYC where he was present along with Rudy and several others of Rudy's "get Joe Biden" team. Lev discussed the presence of Vitlay Pruss, a Russian/Ukrainian businessman who was a contact of Rudy's that Rudy had inveited to meet with all of them...

According to Parnas, Pruss told all of them that earlier he had accompanied Hunter Biden on a business trip to Khazakistan. During the trip while Hunter was drunk/stoned and out of it, the GRU had hacked into Hunter's hard drive. Pruss told them that the Russians had found slacious pics of Hunter, various women,drugs etc... but were disappointed not to find anything more incriminating or blackmail worthy. Like the emails that supposedly show Joe Biden was corrupt.

IIRC that lunch was in May 2019, about 7 months prior to the FBI seizing the laptop from Mac Issac in Dec. At the very least, that demonstrates that Rudy (and others) were aware of the existence of the laptop prior to it becoming public knowledge. It also demonstrates that Rudy was aware of claims the laptop had been hacked by the Russians, and no incriminating documents had been found.

Since Rudy hasn't sued Lev for defamation or accused him of lying, I'd say it's a given the story of the meeting is true. Whether data within the hard drive has been altered within the course of the lengthy chain of custody is unknown, but Pruss told Rudy and the others that the GRU didn't find any of the types of documents that mysteriously appeared later that year.

Former Giuliani associate raises questions about Hunter Biden’s ‘hard drive from hell’

Salacious documents supposedly belonging to Hunter Biden were circulating in Ukraine in May 2019, Lev Parnas says.

www.politico.com

 

[dr.jb]

employer to prospective employee:

"what do you consider your biggest weakness?"

employee:

"i'd have to say my honesty"

employer:

i'd think that would be a great strength!"

employee:

"i don't give a fvck what you think"

 

[UncleMark]

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials [...] Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents?

I think it goes back to McNamara and Vietnam. The Pentagon Papers exposed the lies of that adventure, and we've come to expect similar behavior ever since. Bush's WMDs proved the point for another generation.

 

[bawlmer]

“tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.”

I assume this is a typo, but not sure what you mean to type?

I assume it is a card game reference (eg, euchre or bridge)

 

[IndianaEd70]

Mark Twain said “tell the truth or trump, but get the trick.” I always assumed he was being sarcastic. Maybe I was wrong,

I would argue nowadays honesty matters “maybe in personal relationships” but that “honesty” is no longer relevant to Americans when conducting business or when voting for or evaluating elected officials, that TV and social media have made it OK to lie by eliminating the consequences that accompanied “lieing” in the past. Was Nixon was the last time it mattered for Presidents? Does George Santos mark any change in the pendulum swing in politics? Can I slug an opposing player and lie about why and just move on? Were things just as bad in the post-Civil War days/“Gilded Age” of Twain?

Biden and his people said the border was closed for three and a half years while upwards of 12 million illegals flooded the country. Then he said he couldn't sign an executive order to stop the flow of illegals. Then he signed an executive order to slow the flow of illegals. The administration denied the statistics produced by the border patrol on a monthly basis. Call me crazy, but this looks like a string of lies to me.

Remember Mark Twain also said, "There are three types of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

 

[mcmurtry66]

Biden and his people said the border was closed for three and a half years while upwards of 12 million illegals flooded the country. Then he said he couldn't sign an executive order to stop the flow of illegals. Then he signed an executive order to slow the flow of illegals. The administration denied the statistics produced by the border patrol on a monthly basis. Call me crazy, but this looks like a string of lies to me.

Remember Mark Twain also said, "There are three types of lies: Lies, damn lies, and statistics."

This administration is a total clown show. Like putting a middle school student gov in charge.

Apparently trump has more legal trouble coming. Would be great to swap trump out and get a better chance of removing biden

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Would be great to swap trump out and get a better chance of removing biden

That would require the members of your party to possess common sense.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Would be great to swap trump out and get a better chance of removing biden

Seriously, though, how does Haley not look even better after the spring that both of these old f*cks have had? She could practically get "Female Jesus" tattooed on her back at this point.

 

[mcmurtry66]

That would require the members of your party to possess common sense.

I think if he starts sliding in the polls as allegations with more meat pile up than storm d nonsense like what Brad linked who knows. Especially state shit he couldn’t pardon

 

[UncleMark]

That would require the members of your party to possess common sense.

Not to mention wresting control of the party and the convention away from the Trump sycophants and family.

 

[UncleMark]

I think if he starts sliding in the polls as allegations with more meat pile up than storm d nonsense like what Brad linked who knows. Especially state shit he couldn’t pardon

His fvcking daughter in law controls the party and the convention. Fat chance.

 

[mcmurtry66]

Not to mention wresting control of the party and the convention away from the Trump sycophants and family.

Long shot to be sure. Not to mention money. Hell he raised $200 mil in a week. Billionaires are starting to line up

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

His fvcking daughter in law controls the party and the convention. Fat chance.

Really is a helluva thing they got going. Almost feudal.

 

[mcmurtry66]

His fvcking daughter in law controls the party and the convention. Fat chance.

Yeah.

 

[IndianaEd70]

This administration is a total clown show. Like putting a middle school student gov in charge.

Apparently trump has more legal trouble coming. Would be great to swap trump out and get a better chance of removing biden

I agree. Get a moderate Republican candidate to replace him.

 

[mcmurtry66]

I agree. Get a moderate Republican candidate to replace him.

Majority of independents and 'double haters' think Trump should end 2024 campaign: POLL

Former President Donald Trump's guilty verdict on all 34 counts in his hush-money trial appears to have a majority of independents and "double haters," those who have an unfavorable view of both Trump and President Joe Biden, feeling that the former president should end his bid for the White...

www.yahoo.com

I just want Biden and his goofy crowd out. Don’t care who the pub is. I’d take a mod Dem too

 

[jet812]

There is no way you could [honestly] think honesty isn't important to me. Of course honesty is very important to me. It's an important trait for our Presidential candidates to have too. You're making a mountain out of a molehill concerning where voters vote in the primary. I've long thought voters should be able to vote in either primary. I kind of like open primaries. I don't think there's any dishonesty to that - at least not more than a minute amount.

Of course I would conclude that when I specifically point out a dishonest practice & your direct response is “it isn’t illegal.” How could I think otherwise?

Allowing the opposing party to sabotage what candidates are put in the general by letting them vote for the more beatable candidates is about as dumb as it gets, & this is exactly what Dems have been doing. If a minute amount of votes or dishonesty doesn’t count, will you vote as I direct you, since it won’t matter? I’m sure from your perspective that these Dems are so much more centered morally they’d never do anything to manipulate elections like those nasty Trumpers. 🙄
Them Crooked Dems

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Of course I would conclude that when I specifically point out a dishonest practice & your direct response is “it isn’t illegal.” How could I think otherwise?

Allowing the opposing party to sabotage what candidates are put in the general by letting them vote for the more beatable candidates is about as dumb as it gets, & this is exactly what Dems have been doing. If a minute amount of votes or dishonesty doesn’t count, will you vote as I direct you, since it won’t matter? I’m sure from your perspective that these Dems are so much more centered morally they’d never do anything to manipulate elections like those nasty Trumpers. 🙄
Them Crooked Dems

That's not really dishonest, though. Just shitty and cynical.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Of course I would conclude that when I specifically point out a dishonest practice & your direct response is “it isn’t illegal.” How could I think otherwise?

Allowing the opposing party to sabotage what candidates are put in the general by letting them vote for the more beatable candidates is about as dumb as it gets, & this is exactly what Dems have been doing. If a minute amount of votes or dishonesty doesn’t count, will you vote as I direct you, since it won’t matter? I’m sure from your perspective that these Dems are so much more centered morally they’d never do anything to manipulate elections like those nasty Trumpers. 🙄
Them Crooked Dems

I don’t believe you can direct me to do anything.

You do know that our man Rush Limbaugh encouraged Republicans to vote in Democratic primaries, right? I encourage people to vote their conscience.

Trump did the primaries and he was the most beatable candidate. Maybe their nefarious plan worked, after all.

 

[jet812]

That's not really dishonest, though. Just shitty and cynical.

Don’t they require you to register as a Dem or Republican? If you are a Dem, but answer R, not dishonest. Got it, & that tracks coming from you….

 

[jet812]

I don’t believe you can direct me to do anything.

You do know that our man Rush Limbaugh encouraged Republicans to vote in Democratic primaries, right? I encourage people to vote their conscience.

He wasn’t my man, never listened to him for even a minute, but he sounds crooked & dishonest. Maybe your high & mighty stance on “your party” is misguided.

Now I direct you to fvck right off & eat a bag of dicks.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Don’t they require you to register as a Dem or Republican? If you are a Dem, but answer R, not dishonest. Got it, & that tracks coming from you….

Register just means which party's primary are you voting in. It doesn't go beyond that. There's no loyalty pledge or anything.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

He wasn’t my man, never listened to him for even a minute, but he sounds crooked & dishonest. Maybe your high & mighty stance on “your party” is misguided.

Now I direct you to fvck right off & eat a bag of dicks.

Keyboard warriors are less than impressive.

 

[jet812]

Register just means which party's primary are you voting in. It doesn't go beyond that. There's no loyalty pledge or anything.

Like I said, tracks for you….

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Like I said, tracks for you….

Really? What does that mean? Tracks for me? Don't be shy. Man the **** up and say what you mean.

 

[jet812]

Keyboard warriors are less than impressive.

Warrior? You of all people oughtta know theater the toughest guy on the boat ain’t always giving the orders.

 

[jet812]

Really? What does that mean? Tracks for me? Don't be shy. Man the **** up and say what you mean.

You’re disingenuous & dishonest. This exchange is a perfect example. Is being a Dem & claiming to be a Republican honest or not. Ou say yes, but it is in fact, not, yes or no? Have I misrepresented your words or take?

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Warrior? You of all people oughtta know theater the toughest guy on the boat ain’t always giving the orders.

I didn’t call you a leader or tough.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Of course I would conclude that when I specifically point out a dishonest practice & your direct response is “it isn’t illegal.” How could I think otherwise?

Allowing the opposing party to sabotage what candidates are put in the general by letting them vote for the more beatable candidates is about as dumb as it gets, & this is exactly what Dems have been doing. If a minute amount of votes or dishonesty doesn’t count, will you vote as I direct you, since it won’t matter? I’m sure from your perspective that these Dems are so much more centered morally they’d never do anything to manipulate elections like those nasty Trumpers. 🙄
Them Crooked Dems

Have you truly forgotten the HUGE Republican campaign to vote for Hillary in primaries, once it was a given Obama was going to win? I believe it was old Rush that started that trend, for that election.

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

You’re disingenuous & dishonest. This exchange is a perfect example. Is being a Dem & claiming to be a Republican honest or not. Ou say yes, but it is in fact, not, yes or no? Have I misrepresented your words or take?

You're full of it.