I read your post re Harris. It’s an interesting historical question and off the top of my head vps have a poor running record but I think the salient part that’s being omitted in your post in comparison to prior elections is Harris’ coronation without a primary.
@digressions
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lol…..did you get banned again in a thread?
They can’t handle that smoke THEN they continue to post!!! It’s not unlike what they do with DANC. When they know he’s sleepin
First, congratulations to the MAGA crowd. Donald Trump is my President and I wish us well.
I think the argument is getting a little overheated because you're all correct. There are so many reasons why an election goes one way or another.
You are correct in your assertion that passing over Harris would have hurt the party. However, I side with Hoos and Goat. There simply wouldn't have been enough time to select another person.
It wasn't a scheme. Biden got too old. Biden and top party officials screwed this up(my Monday morning QBing). It was a no win situation for Harris. She was blamed by some for not bringing Biden’s failing condition to light. She was also accused of taking advantage of the situation and bypassing the process.
If she outed Biden's condition, she's would have been labeled an opportunistic, ambitious backstabber. Would that have served her better? Should it be the VP's call? Wonder what Vance would do?
I don't think there's a Democrat on the planet that could have won this last election. And I don’t think there's a Republican that could have lost it.
There are a lot of people on this board that would have trashed the other side's candidates no matter who they were. They've been doing it for years. So, some on here fall on deaf ears. I'm glad you're open to candidates like Shapiro.
I think that an outsider like Shapiro etc would have galvanized support quickly and had time to do the circuit. Rogan etc. But more important than anything would have accomplished two very important things: 1) provided a viable alternative to trump and 2) distanced the Dem candidate from all of the baggage from the last 4 years that Harris carried. Donors would have stepped up and those factors were far more valuable imo than extra time to campaign. I think the woke vestiges would never pass over Harris after the prior 4 years
It’s all Monday morning Qbing now tho.
Who is campaigning for men in women's sports? I read all this woke talk, but I didn't see any woke advertisements. I didn't hear anyone campaigning on a woke agenda...and I kinda pay attention.
Even down ballot evidence would work. I certainly don't see all the congressional ads.
she tried to pivot in her campaign pretending to be a moderate. It was at once disingenuous and unbelievable. Too many clips of defund, bail projects, stay woke, equity of outcomes, lies about the border, etc. it was impossible for her to divest herself of that and try to rebrand. She had the second most lib voting record in the senate this century.
Shapiro or any other name sanitizes all that stink in one appearance
I think a moderate Dem not attached to this administration stood a very good chance. I think for so many this election was a referendum on the Biden/Harris squad politics of the last 4 years.
100 days of new blood with a sound msg. I’ll take that over he’s a fascist and a shitty record anyday
Speaking of Harris, has anybody seen her over these past two (nearly) weeks? Vacation? Bender?
Lol. Probably gauging whether her bs still resonates in calif and what slots are open. Gov
One last point. All of this is just in general Had Dems moved quickly etc. ignoring the procedural limitations. Previously raised dough etc
It wasn't a scheme to slip Harris in from the beginning, but it was a scheme.
A majority of Dem leaders knew Biden was too old, in decline, and would not be up for the job of a 2nd term. But they decided to lie about it, misrepresent his condition and ability to the public, and chance that it might work out or, worse, figured he'd lose but it wasn't worth the risk to their own careers to tell the truth. That is, they put their own standing in the party and their own political careers over their country. Indeed, if some of their rhetoric is to be believed, they risked a dictator taking power and ending democracy in order to save their own intra-party reputation.
I agree. At the same time, that's a tough position to be in. How do you start that conversation and who do you have it with?
Obama, Pelosi, et al, probably had the power and capacity to get it done... also a lot less to lose. Maybe they didn't realize the severity?
I agree it’s a tough position to be in.
But if it’s a choice between Hitler winning and your own political career, makes the choice an easy one, doesn’t it?
Dean Phillips tried to have the conversation. That’s why he ran. But the Democratic Party turned their backs on him. That’s on them, not some accident of timing.
Ya gotta put a time stamp on this point. If you are talking July 2024 , you are probably correct. If we go back to summer 2023, Shapiro would have had a great chance. The Democrats settled early on Biden. That was a huge error.
For decades, I blamed the left-leaning press for Democrat success in many races. That was probably accurate. What I failed to realize was the long term damage the press was causing the Democratic Party and left wing causes, not to mention the dry rot the press self imposed on itself.
Sure the Democrat leaders knew Biden couldn’t do the job in 2033. So did the press. So did all of us. Covering up the Biden competency issues was a scandal of ginormous proportions. The press gave us crickets about that. A huge disservice to all of us and particularly to the Democrats. Had the press been forthcoming and honest, the Democrats would have changed course in 2023 and Biden would not have run.
Early in 2024, there was a smattering of reports about why Biden should replace Kamala on the ticket. The influential Democrats forced Biden to the curb when the only viable replacement was Harris. Within days she became an outstanding candidate, she received a polling bounce, and Harris and the democrats enjoyed a massive sugar high. All of that was created by the media. The effect was that Harris and her advisors decided they didn’t need to bear down on nuts and bolts campaigning because the press was giving her a free ride. Another mistake. Neither Harris nor her advisors felt the need for her to flesh out serious issues. Frankly I don’t think she has the chops to do that, but she never really tried.
Over the years, the press infected the Democrats with a belief that they could never make a wrong move and never had to make a course correction. Not a good thing for any organization. It cost them this year.
Finally, I think the Democrats lost this election when Biden picked Harris. She is just plain dumb. She lived on sex and race.
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the Biden administration put that in Title IX with a crazy interpretative regulation.
I think that was part of the mistake. They underestimated the ability of Hitler to win. Or they overestimated their position.
Many Republicans made the same mistake. Ask JD Vance and Mitch McConnell.
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Shorter, CO.
First rule of dealing dope(propaganda):
Don't get High
On Your Own Supply!
The Dims believed their own polls, knowing full well the data was intentionally skewed.
As Brad mentions above the leaders kept trotting out Biden and telling us he was fine. That, in itself, kind of insults the intelligence of anyone watching because it was obvious he wasn't all there. And I don't say that to be mean because it wasn't Biden's fault. If you watched Reagan the last year or two it was obvious that he wasn't all there.
I would guess that is very true because they knew that wouldn't go over well with the majority of voters so you have to give them credit for showing some common sense. However, that doesn't mean a woke agenda wasn't part of her platform.
This may be way off base but I think with so many attacks on Trump from everywhere he got to be seen as a victim by some people. He was the underdog and you know how a lot of people cheer for the underdog.
I agree on all counts. I would also add to the last paragraph that for a lot of people that don't follow politics, or economics, it was simply, "am I better off now?"
Yeah, I would agree with that. I think most people are convinced who to vote for by 30 second sound bites.
True. And
It is wise to learn from your own mistakes but wiser to learn from the mistakes of others
I can’t get away from the decades of a Democrat-sympathetic media on this issue and other issues. Sure the Democrat leadership knew Biden wasn’t up to the job, but they also knew there would be no accountability for lying about it. The democrats did what politicians do, lie and spin to get votes. The media didn’t do its job of independent and honest investigation and reporting about Biden.
I don’t think it’s off base at all. The Democrats and media overplayed the Trump/Hitler/enemy of democracy hand.
People understood that was hogwash and even the legit criticism got swept away in the torrent of phony Trump criticism.
I agree that Harris was the only choice given how it went down, but if the DNC and Biden could have come to terms a year or so prior, it would have provided enough time.
I go back to what I said as soon as the switch happened, she was a terrible candidate. She, perhaps somewhat unjustly, was going to get pinned for everything wrong that happened under the Biden Administration (though her role with the immigration issues was meaningful). But, she was god awful in the DNC primaries in 2020. She got little traction and wasn't even a Top 5 primary candidate, dropping out in late 2019, well ahead of others.
I'm also not entirely convinced that any Democrat wouldn't have been able to win, assuming it went down differently (standard primary) and a more moderate candidate was elected. Kamala was the second most liberal senator according to voting records for the 115th and 116th Congress.
I don't think Shapiro would have won, for various reasons, but someone of that ilk who is seen as more moderate certainly could have helped.
I just think the economic headwinds were too much for any Democrat. Democrats did a poor job of explaining why inflation was high, and why 8-10% interest rates were blanketing the economy. Whether that is an excuse, or a reason, every voter would have had to decide, but not offering something was a concession.
On the other hand, if you automatically flip Pennsylvania, the hill is much less steep. So, who knows?
MM66, read somewhere that someone other than Kamala will soon be wearing the crown
. Or possibly a ball cap with gold braid on the bill with a matching red tie hanging well below his waist. Very regal.Don't be surprised to find Kamala's smiling happy face as a greeter at the San Diego Zoo.
@mcmurtry66 I won't concede that you were correct in your economic criticism of the Biden adminstration. But I will admit that most voters agreed with you. I hope you understand the difference, and realize I'm being complementary.
thanks digressions. as you note you could still be right, technically, yet perception was what mattered and could be based on incorrect beliefs etc
Every simple minded farm boys knows this explanation as “straddling the fence”, and you always get cut in bad places.
Stand for something or fall for everything.
Once you’re a quitter, you’ll quit the rest of your life!
Dems and Rhinos don’t need to leave, they need to be evacuated, expelled under high pressure. Purged. Flushed.
Placed with enough shame to ruin 3 generations of their family! American/ godly values need to be reinstalled! A blight of 1 billion locust shall be released onto their family name.
Only this will place the proper emphasis back onto DC!
May dark clouds hang over Washington for a 20 yr drought!
Every simple minded farm boys knows this explanation as “straddling the fence”, and you always get cut in bad places.
Stand for something or fall for everything.
Once you’re a quitter, you’ll quit the rest of your life!
Dems and Rhinos don’t need to leave, they need to be evacuated, expelled under high pressure. Purged. Flushed.
Placed with enough shame to ruin 3 generations of their family! American/ godly values need to be reinstalled! A blight of 1 billion locust shall be released onto their family name.
Only this will place the proper emphasis back onto DC!
May dark clouds hang over Washington for a 20 yr drought!
Every simple minded farm boys knows this explanation as “straddling the fence”, and you always get cut in bad places.
Stand for something or fall for everything.
Once you’re a quitter, you’ll quit the rest of your life!
Dems and Rhinos don’t need to leave, they need to be evacuated, expelled under high pressure. Purged. Flushed.
Placed with enough shame to ruin 3 generations of their family! American/ godly values need to be reinstalled! A blight of 1 billion locust shall be released onto their family name.
Only this will place the proper emphasis back onto DC!
May dark clouds hang over Washington for a 20 yr drought!
