DeBoer on College Gameday

[TMFT]

They had Kalen on for a segment. Macafee (who I generally find to be entertaining but also a clown) was talking up the magic that CKD and Penix had at IU because he gets to follow the team while living in Indy.

Then Pat brought up about how they were able to beat Michigan with the combo.

So add College Gameday to the scores of IU fans who think CKD was calling the Offense in 2020.

 

[Bowlmania]

They had Kalen on for a segment. Macafee (who I generally find to be entertaining but also a clown) was talking up the magic that CKD and Penix had at IU because he gets to follow the team while living in Indy.

Then Pat brought up about how they were able to beat Michigan with the combo.

So add College Gameday to the scores of IU fans who think CKD was calling the Offense in 2020.

What?

 

[Jackskip23]

They had Kalen on for a segment. Macafee (who I generally find to be entertaining but also a clown) was talking up the magic that CKD and Penix had at IU because he gets to follow the team while living in Indy.

Then Pat brought up about how they were able to beat Michigan with the combo.

So add College Gameday to the scores of IU fans who think CKD was calling the Offense in 2020.

Add them to the scores of IU fans who think Nick Sheridan’s offense was much different that KD’s. It wasn’t. We just got exposed in 2021 and beyond when the playing field was leveled.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

I don’t care about all that. What is sad is how the timing is never on IUs side. Deboar just got some great hype by NFL guys. The culture mention will pay dividends. Big Deboar fan. Go Huskies.

 

[VictoryRider04]

Yeah, I watched the interview. Happy for him. Big question is how Penix is in the Heisman race for 2 years out west, but couldn’t stay healthy here.

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Yeah, I watched the interview. Happy for him. Big question is how Penix is in the Heisman race for 2 years out west, but couldn’t stay healthy here.

You saw that O-Line.

 

[VictoryRider04]

Good point. But didn’t he hurt his knee just running out of bounds?

 

[Victorbmyboy]

Good point. But didn’t he hurt his knee just running out of bounds?

I’d say that just finished it off. I bet it was a bum knee from other hits. Hes probably the least hit QB right now. Has lots of time and is quick at getting it out.

 

[indiana ed]

Good point. But didn’t he hurt his knee just running out of bounds?

Both times he tore his ACL he was running. One out of bounds and one cutting up field.

 

[4IUSox2]

Having 4 season ending injuries in 4 straight seasons is hard to figure, but it happened. A lot of guys might have quit at some point, but he didn’t. He stayed four years, got his degree and left everything out on the field for his teammates, coaches, school and us fans. He gave us some great memories. It’s unfortunate the bad luck he had at IU.

After that kind of “luck”, I blame no one for trying things somewhere else. Hope he wins the Heisman.

 

[secondasky]

I noticed he said something like , I wanted to take my game to a higher level.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Add them to the scores of IU fans who think Nick Sheridan’s offense was much different that KD’s. It wasn’t. We just got exposed in 2021 and beyond when the playing field was leveled.

How was it level? Did UM, PSU and OSU not have the talent, coaches they had prior to, and after COVID? IU happened to have a really good team---a perfect mixture. If it anything it shows how incompetent TA is, w/o competent assistants. He's completely lost.

 

[Jackskip23]

How was it level? Did UM, PSU and OSU not have the talent, coaches they had prior to, and after COVID? IU happened to have a really good team---a perfect mixture. If it anything it shows how incompetent TA is, w/o competent assistants. He's completely lost.

Our Covid challenges were during the summer so, when the season finally started, we actually had a mostly full squad that could actually practice and prepare. Virtually none of our opponents were so fortunate. When things normalized in 2021, the results spoke for themselves, and have continued to.

 

[TMFT]

How was it level? Did UM, PSU and OSU not have the talent, coaches they had prior to, and after COVID? IU happened to have a really good team---a perfect mixture. If it anything it shows how incompetent TA is, w/o competent assistants. He's completely lost.

How many starters did IU’s offense return in ‘21? How much production? Did the play caller change?

The answers are “a lot,” “a lot,” and “no.”

So they had almost the identical mixture in ‘21 that they had in ‘20. So there’s an explanation deeper than “we win so we must have been good, we lose so we must have been bad.”

 

[IUfanBorden]

How many starters did IU’s offense return in ‘21? How much production? Did the play caller change?

The answers are “a lot,” “a lot,” and “no.”

So they had almost the identical mixture in ‘21 that they had in ‘20. So there’s an explanation deeper than “we win so we must have been good, we lose so we must have been bad.”

We lose becasue we have a bad HC.

Tom was surrounded by good assistants. They left. And it shows.

 

[Jackskip23]

We lose becasue we have a bad HC.

Tom was surrounded by good assistants. They left. And it shows.

Nick Sheridan was the OC in 2020 and 2021.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Nick Sheridan was the OC in 2020 and 2021.

I know....

Now tell me about life after him, DeBorer and Womack.

 

[TMFT]

I know....

Now tell me about life after him, DeBorer and Womack.

Then what was the perfect recipe in 2020?

Edit: on offense

 

[Upset Alert]

We lose becasue we have a bad HC.

Tom was surrounded by good assistants. They left. And it shows.

IU has absolutely no identity on either side of the ball. Doesn't matter what players they get through the portal. No player development to speak of either.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Then what was the perfect recipe in 2020?

Edit: on offense

Serious?

 

[TMFT]

Serious?

Completely serious.

Put another way, what ingredients were different in ‘20 vs ‘21?

 

[IUfanBorden]

Completely serious.

Put another way, what ingredients were different in ‘20 vs ‘21?

 

[Hoosiers Rising]

Completely serious.

Put another way, what ingredients were different in ‘20 vs ‘21?

Penix was healthy most of the year and played well for the most part. The offense wasn’t lights out but was very serviceable. Wommack had a knack for sending the pressure from multiple positions and disguising it well. Teams didn’t know where it would come from. We lead the country in interceptions for most of the year even with playing less games than most. Penix wasn’t ready in 21 and Wommack was gone.

 

[Jackskip23]

Penix was healthy most of the year and played well for the most part. The offense wasn’t lights out but was very serviceable. Wommack had a knack for sending the pressure from multiple positions and disguising it well. Teams didn’t know where it would come from. We lead the country in interceptions for most of the year even with playing less games than most. Penix wasn’t ready in 21 and Wommack was gone.

As long as people continue to ignore why 2020 occurred, they’ll continue ignore what it tells us about why we are where we are today.

 

[TMFT]

Penix was here both years.

The ‘21 defense statistically held up for most of ‘22 even after Wommack was gone.

 

[Jackskip23]

Penix was here both years.

The ‘21 defense statistically held up for most of ‘22 even after Wommack was gone.

Penix’s play in the two early big games in 2021 was really bad (combined 31 - 71 throwing with six interceptions), giving us no real chance on either game, and setting the tone for the failed season that he never finished.

 

[TMFT]

Penix’s play in the two early big games in 2021 was really bad (combined 31 - 71 throwing with six interceptions), giving us no real chance on either game, and setting the tone for the failed season that he never finished.

I know.

That what I’m trying to get to with Borden. The ‘21 offense was almost identical to the ‘20 offense as far as the pieces. From players to coaches.

The ‘21 defense was statistically good until injuries caught up to them later in the year and they also gave up (IMO). The big difference between ‘20 & ‘21 was number of TOs caused. Which are NOT designed by playcalls.

 

[Jackskip23]

I know.

That what I’m trying to get to with Borden. The ‘21 offense was almost identical to the ‘20 offense as far as the pieces. From players to coaches.

The ‘21 defense was statistically good until injuries caught up to them later in the year and they also gave up (IMO). The big difference between ‘20 & ‘21 was number of TOs caused. Which are NOT designed by playcalls.

I’ve already stated a number of times why I think 2020 produced so many turnovers, so I won’t go down that road again. What I think those turnovers produced was a mistaken belief that we were much better than we were, and it all came crashing down the next season.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Penix was here both years.

The ‘21 defense statistically held up for most of ‘22 even after Wommack was gone.

He got hurt

 

[IUfanBorden]

I know.

That what I’m trying to get to with Borden. The ‘21 offense was almost identical to the ‘20 offense as far as the pieces. From players to coaches.

The ‘21 defense was statistically good until injuries caught up to them later in the year and they also gave up (IMO). The big difference between ‘20 & ‘21 was number of TOs caused. Which are NOT designed by playcalls.

So what you are saying is, Tom Allen isn't the problem?

 

[TMFT]

So what you are saying is, Tom Allen isn't the problem?

I’m trying to say that your argument makes no sense.

Explain to me like I’m 5 years old how the team was different in ‘20 vs ‘21.

Not what the record was. What the difference was in the nuts and bolts.

Because if all you’ve got is “wins in ‘20, losses in ‘21” you’re bringing nothing to the table as far as identifying the problem(s).

Because, at least as the offense goes, VERY little changed from year to year then. Penix’s injury in ‘21 is a red herring too because he got hurt every year he was at IU. He played in 6 in ‘20 and 5 in ‘21.

 

[IUfanBorden]

I’m trying to say that your argument makes no sense.

Explain to me like I’m 5 years old how the team was different in ‘20 vs ‘21.

Not what the record was. What the difference was in the nuts and bolts.

Because if all you’ve got is “wins in ‘20, losses in ‘21” you’re bringing nothing to the table as far as identifying the problem(s).

Because, at least as the offense goes, VERY little changed from year to year then. Penix’s injury in ‘21 is a red herring too because he got hurt every year he was at IU. He played in 6 in ‘20 and 5 in ‘21.

The problem is easy to identify I dont need to break down schemes, differences, offense this, or defense that...Who did this, or who did that. Uniform colors and what not.

I shouldnt have to explain to as if you are 5, on what the problem is. You are trying to make an argument for Allen. And there isn't one. So I will cut to the chase...

The problem is Tom Allen.

 

[TMFT]

I’ve already stated a number of times why I think 2020 produced so many turnovers, so I won’t go down that road again. What I think those turnovers produced was a mistaken belief that we were much better than we were, and it all came crashing down the next season.

I’ve been banging the same drum in relation to the offense in 20 vs 21.

The 20 offense was not “good” as a model of efficiency or consistency. They just took advantage of home run plays and all the timely turnovers. The one thing sticks out to me most is the PSU game where the offense couldn’t do anything all game unless the D gave them the ball on the plus side of the 50 until literally the last drive of the game.

 

[Jackskip23]

So what you are saying is, Tom Allen isn't the problem?

For the most part, Allen has always been the problem, but it’s not just been him. Penix was brittle and, when healthy, he was streaky and inconsistent. The good was extremely good but the bad was difference making bad. His Washington level of play is far greater and even far more sustained than what we saw when he was with us.

On D, the level field we had to play on in 2021 penalized all of the risk taking that worked so well in 2020, and the results showed it.

 

[TMFT]

The problem is easy to identif

What you think the problem is sure is easy to identify.

You need to use your words to explain it and backup some of your claims about the 2020 magic vs futility since.

 

[IUfanBorden]

What you think the problem is sure is easy to identify.

You need to use your words to explain it and backup some of your claims about the 2020 magic vs futility since.

Tom Allen

 

[IUfanBorden]

For the most part, Allen has always been the problem, but it’s not just been him. Penix was brittle and, when healthy, he was streaky and inconsistent. The good was extremely good but the bad was difference making bad. His Washington level of play is far greater and even far more sustained than what we saw when he was with us.

Its becasue the kid isnt running for his life @ Washington.

 

[Jackskip23]

Its becasue the kid isnt running for his life @ Washington.

Well, that’s a reason, but it’s far from the only one. It’s also about the scheme, the players, and the health and development of Penix over that period. Obviously, there’s a great deal that goes into how a key player in a team sport develops and succeeds, and it’s highly fluid. In other words, simply saying “It’s Tom Allen” is woefully short on detail and, thus, not credible on its face.

 

[4IUSox2]

Let’s not forget in January of ‘21, coming off 2 very good seasons, CTA going with the unproven DC in Warren, a total outsider to this league, when all signs were pointing to veteran DC, Mike Tressel, whom Mel had demoted him for his own guy at MSU.

CTA again thinking a bit too far out of the box, that Warren would deliver recruiting dividends, while Allen would help him with the D. What a disaster!!

As for MP, I have watched lots of Washington games the last 2 years. I think yesterday was far and away, the most body shots he took. Was glad to see him keep getting back up because you could see he was in pain.

 

[TMFT]

Let’s not forget in January of ‘21, coming off 2 very good seasons, CTA going with the unproven DC in Warren, a total outsider to this league, when all signs were pointing to veteran DC, Mike Tressel, whom Mel had demoted him for his own guy at MSU.

CTA again thinking a bit too far out of the box, that Warren would deliver recruiting dividends, while Allen would help him with the D. What a disaster!!

As for MP, I have watched lots of Washington games the last 2 years. I think yesterday was far and away, the most body shots he took. Was glad to see him keep getting back up because you could see he was in pain.

I disagree on the Warren hire as far as his ability to field a competitive Defense.

The ‘21 D did enough to win the first 6 games if the offense and special teams had been even mediocre.

Up through the MSU homecoming loss, the defense was fine. After MSU, the wheels came off with an OSU whipping for the back half of the season.

If you go back to the drive charts from that year, you’ll see a lot of punts caused on D that were followed up by 3-5 play drives. They just never got off the field. Shoot, even the Iowa beat down included 2 pick-six and another INT right before half that gave away 3 points. Cinci, we gave up 3 INTs, a kickoff return TD, and fumbled the go-ahead TD in the 4Q at the goal line.

IU would have gone to a good bowl if the other units had been as good as the defense was that year.