Hold on now. We don't want to kill the guy.....maybe hurt him a little but not kill him.
Could this be Archie’s last game?
- Thread starter SouthernIN845
- Start date
I didn’t say I thought it would happen but it’s what he deserves at the moment. It’s a shame our administration won’t do what’s needed! I loved the Archie hire but for whatever reason he just isn’t the right guy. Maybe he’ll get it done somewhere else years from now but it’s not happening here unless he makes some big changes.
I’m with you. I’m no Archie basher, but there’s not a ton of progress in year three, and there’s definitely not a culture of toughness and competitiveness that I mistakenly thought would be one of the hallmarks of his leadership. Once teams get on top of them, they fold pretty easily.
You’re certainly right about that. And it’s a choice we’ve made. It may not feel like a choice - you may genuinely believe that everybody involved in the program is committed to being a top program again.
But I would say that too many people — including fans, boosters, administrators, alums, etal — simply want to be a top program. And that is very different than being committed to it.
The difference is manifested in a number of ways- but most notably in the level and length of tolerance of anything less than the excellence and success we’d all like to see. This was clearly evident in a series of major actions (and inactions) taken over the past 20 years. And you’re kidding yourself if you think we’ve learned from that and moved beyond it.
We have chosen to be mediocre. And we will remain so until and unless we become genuinely committed to being a truly competitive program.
About the only thing giving me hope right now is that Fred Glass’ successor will adopt this attitude and will simply not tolerate mediocrity as Fred has.
Yeah, that’s what the standard used to be. I doubt you were around for it, but IU was elite. Now, it’s just another program, and apathy is the standard for many.
Actually, I’m a great poker player and yes I was a federal police officer at one time.
It’s the program IU has demanded and the program IU deserves. They’ve / we’ve gotten exactly what we decided we wanted to have.
I don’t think it’s what anybody wants. But it is what we’ve chosen.
And people are scared s**tless of the administration making demands, holding the coaches accountable, and being willing to take swift decisive action to buttress that accountability. They truly believe that we’ll get even worse if the brass acts in this manner.
They couldn’t be more wrong, though. No organization ever reached their goals without commitment to those goals and a culture of accountability.
We lack both. And it couldn’t be more obvious.
A pathetic basketball program? The administration is awful!!! We should get rid of them!!!
Whether “wanted” or “chosen”, you’re right that the lack of commitment is obvious, and the results are reflective of it and wholly predictable.
His buyout, as problematic as everyone seems to believe, is really chump change if you negotiate it and hire somebody interim for next year … since Glass kinda double ****ed us on that and retiring, oh of course, beyond NCAA brackets, which we can safely afford to sleep though. Hell, even Crean offered some improvement to warrant hope, every other year. We need rid of this fool ASAP,, Fred can retire, let somebody competent make the next hire
I think it’s an important distinction. You would be hard-pressed to find any IU partisan — be they a casual fan, an active booster, a coach, a player, an administrator — who would ever say that they want the program to normally produce middling Big Ten teams. But that’s precisely what our program has normally produced for the last 25 years (yes, RMK fans...his last 5 or 6 teams weren’t great). We’ve had a couple good teams in that span. No truly great ones, but a couple good ones. Other than that, not so much.
But there is a huge difference between wanting something and being absolutely committed to it. I want to have a ripped body. But I can’t say I’m committed to it. As such, I don’t incessantly do all the things that would be necessary to have that, even if I have a pretty good idea what those would be. So, unsurprisingly, I don’t have it. There are things in my life that I am truly committed to. And they’ve worked out a lot better for me.
And I have come to the conclusion that most people in the IU universe — particularly those who matter most — are not committed to having a top notch basketball program. And, so, none of us should be surprised that we don’t.
We’re too scared that we could be even worse if we changed the culture.
I’m not suggesting fans or the University have actively pursued mediocrity, but I don’t believe the desire to truly be elite has existed at IU for some time. I think many have “wanted” a decent program, a competitive program, but that’s it.
As for anyone’s commitment, I’m not sure you can be committed to anything until you know what it is you want to be committed to. Glass talked the talk, bit he never walked the walk of commitment.
It isn’t going to happen this year. Even if we lose every game here on out. Glass’ decision to retire virtually guarantees this.
The good news is that we’ll have a new AD this time next year. So it’s theoretically possible the university could hire somebody who will try to instill the cultural change we desperately need. I’m not exactly hopeful. Because it’s people bought into the current culture who will be making the hire and establishing the new AD’s directive.
But at least we know that there’s a chance they could strike gold. There will be a key change happening this summer. Pray they make the right hire and we’ll have somebody who isn’t going to tolerate chronic mediocrity, lack of tangible improvement, etc.
Seriously? That is not true. Miller was considered a “slam dunk” hire (actual quote from more than one article) so IU was obviously trying to hire the coach to make IU great again (no pun intended). Miller might get it done yet. None of us know one way or the other, but it’s obvious that neither we not the university want to be mediocre.
First, I thought it was a great hire at the time. So I agree with that. I’ve just yet to see much evidence since he’s been here that he can elevate the program to where we want it to be. If you have, I’d be interested in hearing about it.
Second, you need to read what I’ve been writing more carefully. Not only have I not said that we “wanted” to be mediocre, I’ve said repeatedly that we don’t. What I have said is that we’re not committed to being great. And there’s a huge difference. I explain it in more detail elsewhere.
You said we've "chosen" to be mediocre. Sorry if I understood what you meant with that.
and brad stephens was in the back seat. i hear they're fighting over the job.
Yes, I did say that. I don’t think it was a conscious choice, though. When you “want” something, but aren’t committed enough to it to do what’s necessary to achieve it, then whether you meant to or not, you’ve chosen not to have it.
So, yes, I think we’ve chosen to have a mediocre basketball program.
Aside from the atrocious play, the one thing that really stood out to me that was deadly was the time out at around I believe 5:48 remaining. The coaches met separately and the players stood by themselves looking totally directionless. Archie talked to them for barely a moment. They looked completely disinterested or lost. The Purdue game will tell us if the coach has lost the team. I don’t know about his future at IU but the now is not going well at all.
Nice to know I’m living rent free.
Been in Cincinnati all day for my daughter’s birthday. Didn’t know I was required to show up here for your benefit.
Ever figure out if Donovan is coming?
The same source reported that the OSU player's bloody nose was stopped by tampons from the IU bench.
OK. I disagree with that. Now we're good.
I know you do. And that general attitude has been the prevailing one for many fruitless years. As I said, I don’t think it’s a conscious choice. But it’s because our PTBs — and many fans like yourself — are so obstinate about “staying the course” and “giving it time” instead of insisting on results and holding those responsible for getting the results accountable that we seem to be stuck in neutral.
If we want to get better, the general outlook I’m advocating here needs to prevail over the general outlook you’re advocating. If that happens, we’ll have better teams. If it doesn’t, we’ll continue to struggle regardless who’s coaching.
I think the approach I’m advocating will get us where we both want to be faster than your fire and hire again approach. Time will tell.
If what you get from what I’m writing is simply “fire and hire again”, then you’re not reading it very carefully.
What I’m talking about is changing the culture. Of course, that may involve changing coaches. It probably would have to here - as I’m more convinced by the day that Archie doesn’t have what it takes. And the evidence is pretty much all on my side of that, not yours.
But, no, if we change coaches without changing the program’s culture, we’d be having these same conversations in a few years. It’s deeper than the coach, Aloha. That’s why it keeps happening.
I’m telling you: we are not committed to winning. If we want to start winning, we need to commit to it. When we do that — I mean really do that — then a lot of things that have long been acceptable cease being acceptable.
You want to know what a culture of accountability looks like? Ask Jahvon Quinerly — a 5-star recruit for chrissakes — about his experience at Villanova. Jay Wright’s program has the culture we should be seeking. Could you imagine Archie (or Crean, or Davis) benching a 5-star recruit? Could you imagine some of our fans’ reaction to that? Quinerly transferred and Wright seemed perfectly fine with that.
Jay Wright has two national championships under his belt.
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