Clean or Travel?
- Thread starter Pryght
- Start date
100% travel, but probably goes uncalled 95% of the time. Dude literally changes his pivot foot to get his shot off.
I dont even have to watch the video to tell you it’s a travel! Anything more than 2 steps should be called a travel, but never gets called! I’m too old school, and it pisses me off whenever I see an obvious travel not be called! NBA street ball ruined the sport for me!
If I'm interpreting this rule correctly, it's clean.
NCAA
Rule 9, Section 5. Traveling
Art. 5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal
NCAA
Rule 9, Section 5. Traveling
Art. 5. After coming to a stop and establishing the pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the playing court, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal
After establishing his left foot as his pivot foot he then changed his pivot foot to his right in order to get the shot off. If that’s not a travel then I don’t know what is.
As long as your pivot foot does not retouch the floor after lifting it there's no travel. He didn't establish a pivot until he put both hands on the ball. The shot counts.
Are we watching different videos? He established his left foot as his pivot foot, then switched to his right foot (taking a step in the process) in order to get his shot off.
I’m not sure why having both hands on the ball is relevant, but if it is, he had both hands on the ball while he had his left foot established.
Is this any different than doing an up and under but stepping through with your non-pivot foot? I’ve brought this move up before because women do it a lot… actually a drill in practice.
You can't switch your pivot foot. When he picked-up his left (pivot) foot, he can legally pass or shoot before his left/pivot foot touches the floor. Imagine a post player with his back to the basket with his right foot established as his pivot. It is legal to lift his right/pivot foot and jump off his left foot to shoot a hook shot.
Both hands on the ball means he's picked up his dribble, and the foot on the floor at that point is his pivot foot.
No. I'd guess there's lots of tape of Malik making multiple pivots before jumping to shoot off his non-pivot foot.
You can lift your pivot foot. Just cannot return it to the floor.
Just watched your second video linked and that’s what I was talking about. Apparently it’s legal but shouldn’t be.
He didn't change anything. His L foot is his pivot. He raises it to shoot----and does. Before L foot returns to the floor.
Its legal.
What shouldn't be? Lifting your pivot to shoot? How could anyone ever shoot a jumper if this were the case?
Lifting your pivot is LEGAL. Lifting your pivot foot, and returning to the floor, w/o shooting/passing, is ILLEGAL.
Can I lift my pivot foot and stand on my other foot for 30 seconds? If so, the defense won’t know what to do.
If you have such ability----sure. Again---you can lift ypur pivot foot. You just cannot return it to the floor. I see this called a lot in HS----not a travel.
After coming to a stop. He took 2 steps by jumping backward with both feet. Then he pivoted. Then changed his pivot foot. 3 steps. Textbook travel.
The question for me is when does he stop and is the hop backward legal? I don't think he gave up his dribble until possessing the ball with both hands, after the hop backward.
From there, it's all legal. Lifting your pivot foot and then jumping from your non-pivot foot happens dozens of times every game in the post. It's a sign of good footwork.
Anytime a pivot foot is changed it is travel. He is so obvious in changing pivots. Any ref not calling it should not be a ref.
The rule is not that simple. If it's in the act of shooting/passing, and the original pivot foot does not touch the floor again, then it's not a travel.
There is no such thing as changing pivots. It only matters if his pivot foot leaves the floor, it cannot touch the floor again. I am sure @IUfanBorden will appreciate your advice he shouldn't referee high school basketball anymore.
I can't cite every rule, but it "looks" like a travel, and to me, here's why: I count a total of 6 steps not including the pivots and only 2 dribbles. From the rules videos shown, I'd agree he can take off on his right foot after establishing his left as his pivot (as happens with about every up and under move) if you just isolated that sequence, but the "totality" of his moves to me looks like a travel, and if I saw that play in a game, I'd think they missed the call if they didn't call a travel.
Agree. You change pivot foot, it's a travel. This is not an example of that. I officiated college basketball for 12+ years...HS now for 20. I have a decent grasp of the rule. You can lift your pivot foot. Lifting your pivot foot IS NOT changing pivot feet...it's simply lifting the pivot. Now if you lift your pivot foot, AND return it tomth floor, WITHOUT shooting or passing, then yes..You have now travekd.
I cannot explain this any simpler that that.
So you don't think this entire sequence is a travel, from his first move? As I said, I count 6 steps and only 2 dribbles. You don't think that's a travel?
Tbh, with 2 videos and 27 different examples..I'm not sure which of the 40 clips we are talking about. The first one? No, the first one is not.
Edit: 2md video. First clip. #11 in white. No, not a travel. Dribble is interrupted. He dribbles again, lands in two feet. At that point, NO pivot has been established. Once he gathered, he established his L as his pivot. Then jumps off his left. Legal
As long as the player is legally dribbling (not carrying or palming the ball), the numbers of steps and dribbles aren't relevant. Someone said he started out the sequence traveling. I don't see that either because he began dribbling as he lifted his initial pivot foot.
Where there could be an argument, imo, is whether he stopped his dribble before hopping backward. I don't think so, because he appears to keep his hand on top of the ball. But he definitely pauses his dribble and I could see a ref calling that.
Like I said, I'm not an official and can't site specific rules, so it doesn't matter, but imo taking 6 steps and 2 dribbles when you aren't racing down the court at full speed is a travel. It's like the old quote I heard from the Supreme Court on pornography: "I know it when I see it". In total, I believe this is a travel.
IMO, the ball was still in his hand when he lifted his initial pivot foot. It's close though.
You can't lift your pivot foot if you've taken 2 steps to get into it, which he did. The second he lifts his pivot foot, the foot touching the floor is step 3 without dribbling.
You cannot touch the floor 3 times without dribbling. Step1, step2 is his jump back. He pivots on his 2nd step foot, then he switches to a 3rd step by lifting his 2nd foot off the floor. That's 3 steps.
We used to get called for this all the time and the ref would tell you you changed your pivot foot.
Unless the rule has changed, it's a travel.
The "gather step" bs is not a real thing, it's just a lazy gift that has been hurting the game. Same with James Harden's ridiculous double hop step back that they now allow in the NBA all the time. Both are travels. You cannot put 3 feet on the floor without dribbling.
The original question should read “clean or nah?” If you wanna stay current with the dopey kids.
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