Charges: obstruction, destruction of documents, violation of the espionage act

[cosmickid]

So that puts a lie to your, and others', claim that judges will rule based on who appointed them.

Of course, you ignore the magistrate - not judge - that signed the illegal search warrant is a Democrat.

Why exactly are you calling him a "Democrat"? He has contributed to various candidates from both parties,and his wife worked for a GOP politician or was appointed by one IIRC...

Additionally judges in FL are appointed, not elected. And while the original reporting that he was appointed personally by Scott or DeSantis was erroneous, the fact remains that he was elected by fellow jurists who for the most part were appointed by GOP politicians. FL hasn't had a Dem Governor for over 22 yrs, so the idea that the judges who chose him were "Dems" is pretty far fetched...

 

[cosmickid]

I saw an article earlier essentially claiming that since President Trump scribbled notes on the classified documents, they are then therefore brought under the umbrella of Executive Privilege. Are you even allowed to write notes on classified documents?

Honestly don't know (and my one minutes google search did not yield answers). I mean, in one way, you are "altering" the document, which is an obvious no-no, but at the same time, unless you are modifying the actual text therein or somehow concealing the information with your notes, you aren't actually "changing" the classified information. Curious if anyone knows the answer to this one.

Executive Privilege means the ability of a representative from the Executive Branch to exclude items from members of other branches, particularly Congress/Legislative...

My understanding is that it isn't applicable here, because the DOJ is also part of the Executive Branch. So there is no inherent "right" for another member of the same branch to exclude them...

 

[UncleMark]

I saw an article earlier essentially claiming that since President Trump scribbled notes on the classified documents, they are then therefore brought under the umbrella of Executive Privilege. Are you even allowed to write notes on classified documents?

That was one of the many absurd claims they've thrown out.

Trump can no longer exert executive privilege. He's no longer the executive. And the current executive has declined to exert executive privilege in any of these matters.

 

[zeke4ahs]

Remember thread after thread about how Trump was going to jail for Russian Collusion?

Looks like that didn't happen.

No actually I don’t recall people saying he was going to jail. Feel free to find those.

 

[IU_Hickory]

Okay, all you flaming libs. I'm talking to you, Hickory and Goat and TMP and Bowl and DrHoops and all the rest of you...

How many of you think that Trump had all those classified documents laid out on the floor like the picture showed when the FBI showed up?

I'm only asking because Trump and his lawyer are saying you people are stupid enough to believe that's how they were found.

I didn't believe it was found like that.

 

[SqueakyClean]

That was one of the many absurd claims they've thrown out.

Trump can no longer exert executive privilege. He's no longer the executive. And the current executive has declined to exert executive privilege in any of these matters.

My question was not whether the argument of executive privilege is valid (it's not). My question was, are you even allowed to write on top secret documents?

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

My question was not whether the argument of executive privilege is valid (it's not). My question was, are you even allowed to write on top secret documents?

I don't see why not, although I'm guessing they'd frown on you defacing them in such a way as to obscure any of the classification markings.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I saw an article earlier essentially claiming that since President Trump scribbled notes on the classified documents, they are then therefore brought under the umbrella of Executive Privilege. Are you even allowed to write notes on classified documents?

Honestly don't know (and my one minutes google search did not yield answers). I mean, in one way, you are "altering" the document, which is an obvious no-no, but at the same time, unless you are modifying the actual text therein or somehow concealing the information with your notes, you aren't actually "changing" the classified information. Curious if anyone knows the answer to this one.

Notes can be written on them, but sane people don’t do that. The notes are then classified at the same level as the document. The classification of the document does not change.

 

[DANC]

Why exactly are you calling him a "Democrat"? He has contributed to various candidates from both parties,and his wife worked for a GOP politician or was appointed by one IIRC...

Additionally judges in FL are appointed, not elected. And while the original reporting that he was appointed personally by Scott or DeSantis was erroneous, the fact remains that he was elected by fellow jurists who for the most part were appointed by GOP politicians. FL hasn't had a Dem Governor for over 22 yrs, so the idea that the judges who chose him were "Dems" is pretty far fetched...

I called him that because he is one.

See - I managed to convey a thought in one sentence without cutting and pasting. You should try it sometime.

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

I called him that because he is one.

See - I managed to convey a thought in one sentence without cutting and pasting. You should try it sometime.

Are the appeals court judges Democrats too?

 

[DANC]

Are the appeals court judges Democrats too?

I doubt it. 6 were appointed by Trump, from what I've read.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Notes can be written on them, but sane people don’t do that. The notes are then classified at the same level as the document. The classification of the document does not change.

Under that theory, I'm willing to bet 10 bucks that the phrase "Nancy Pelosi is a bitch" is now considered top secret, classified information. 😉

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Under that theory, I'm willing to bet 10 bucks that the phrase "Nancy Pelosi is a bitch" is now considered top secret, classified information. 😉

It’s not a theory but that’s funny.

 

[cosmickid]

I called him that because he is one.

See - I managed to convey a thought in one sentence without cutting and pasting. You should try it sometime.

You managed to convey your unsupported opinion. I try to rely on facts...

 

[DANC]

You managed to convey your unsupported opinion. I try to rely on facts...

You rely on cut-and-pastes and plagiarizing. You woulnd't know a fact if it his you in the ass.

 

[outside shooter]

 

[DANC]

View embedded media

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Why would you doubt the FBI would plant evidence?

They've proved they would lie on a FISA warrant? They sat on Hunter's laptop for over 2 years. Comey, McCabe, and Strzok were all fired for conspiring to stage a coup on a duly elected President.

Only dupes would think the FBI wouldn't plant 'evidence'.

 

[Stuffshot]

Why would you doubt the FBI would plant evidence?

They've proved they would lie on a FISA warrant? They sat on Hunter's laptop for over 2 years. Comey, McCabe, and Strzok were all fired for conspiring to stage a coup on a duly elected President.

Only dupes would think the FBI wouldn't plant 'evidence'.

Don't worry, DANC -- the special master has ordered Trump and his "attorneys" to submit a sworn declaration saying if they believe the Justice Department included any items on their inventory of materials taken from Mar-a-Lago that were not actually seized during the search, and the declaration must include "a list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were not seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022," Dearie wrote in the order.

Mar-a-Lago special master orders Trump team to back up any claims of FBI 'planting' evidence | CNN Politics

The special master overseeing the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation has ordered former President Donald Trump's lawyers to back up out-of-court assertions that the FBI may have planted evidence at the property during their search last month.

www.cnn.com

The stage is now set for Trump and his attorneys to admit they too are "dupes," under the definition you put in the last sentence of your post.

Please keep posting,

 

[Cortez88]

Don't worry, DANC -- the special master has ordered Trump and his "attorneys" to submit a sworn declaration saying if they believe the Justice Department included any items on their inventory of materials taken from Mar-a-Lago that were not actually seized during the search, and the declaration must include "a list of any specific items set forth in the Detailed Property Inventory that Plaintiff asserts were not seized from the Premises on August 8, 2022," Dearie wrote in the order.

Mar-a-Lago special master orders Trump team to back up any claims of FBI 'planting' evidence | CNN Politics

The special master overseeing the Mar-a-Lago documents investigation has ordered former President Donald Trump's lawyers to back up out-of-court assertions that the FBI may have planted evidence at the property during their search last month.

www.cnn.com

The stage is now set for Trump and his attorneys to admit they too are "dupes," under the definition you put in the last sentence of your post.

Please keep posting,

This is the judge putting Trumps lawyers on notice that they are royally screwed. These lawyers have professional reputations and ethical requirements. They also have an uncontrollable client who lies all the time. They can’t sign that court filing. Not signing and filing is an admission that they have a lying client with no proof. It’s a really slick move by the judge.

 

[Noodle]

I doubt it. 6 were appointed by Trump, from what I've read.

Two of the three who considered this appeal were Trump appointees. Appeals are heard by three judge panels. In rare situations the entire appellate court may rehear the appeal. But that’s relatively rare.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

This is the judge putting Trumps lawyers on notice that they are royally screwed. These lawyers have professional reputations and ethical requirements. They also have an uncontrollable client who lies all the time. They can’t sign that court filing. Not signing and filing is an admission that they have a lying client with no proof. It’s a really slick move by the judge.

Not slick at all. It’s the kind of order Trumps lawyers should have been prepared for. . Before responding to the order I’d move to depose all who participated in the search about why they did not allow Trump people to observe and why they demanded all surveillance cameras be turned off. Then I’d ask whom ever will swear that Trump has been given copies of all seized material how that agent can swear that is all the seized material (except secret stuff). An honest answer would be that there is no way for that person to know. I’d also ask why on Gods Green earth why anybody would think a passport would be covered by the warrant such that they would scoop it up. (That’s an irrelevant gotcha question)

Finally, Trump claims he didn’t pack the boxes and doesn’t know what is in them. I doubt that he can ever support the planting claim or give a complete response to the judges question except to say I don’t recall ever seeing document “x” in box 15.

A more interesting issue is Trumps claim about Crossfire Hurricane material. This will be put up or shut up time for that if the FBI doesn't disclose such material.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Not slick at all. It’s the kind of order Trumps lawyers should have been prepared for. . Before responding to the order I’d move to depose all who participated in the search about why they did not allow Trump people to observe and why they demanded all surveillance cameras be turned off. Then I’d ask whom ever will swear that Trump has been given copies of all seized material how that agent can swear that is all the seized material (except secret stuff). An honest answer would be that there is no way for that person to know.

A) I'm pretty sure you are never allowed to witness the execution of a search warrant. You are asked to remain outside in order to make sure that you are not able to remove / hide evidence before they get there. The same applies to video surveillance. If you are able to see where the cops / feds are searching, you can try to sneak into an area where they are not and remove evidence. Only after an area has been processed are you allowed to enter that area.

B) Both the Feds and team Trump have an inventory of all of the documents, don't they? You are essentially implying that the feds have documents in their possession that are not listed on the inventory. Even if that is true, if they try to build some kind of criminal case against Trump with that document, the lawyers for Trump can immediately point to the search warrant inventory and say "Hey, this is not an item that was removed during the search" and the case immediately gets thrown out.

Finally, Trump claims he didn’t pack the boxes and doesn’t know what is in them. I doubt that he can ever support the planting claim or give a complete response to the judges question except to say I don’t recall ever seeing document “x” in box 15.

Wasn't there a link in this thread a while back where a witness has said that Trump was fully aware of the contents of the boxes?

 

[outside shooter]

Hilarious!

 

[TheOriginalHappyGoat]

Hilarious!

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I lasted 19 seconds, and that was only because I dropped my mouse.

 

[outside shooter]

I lasted 19 seconds, and that was only because I dropped my mouse.

In comparison to IU football, I found it enjoyable

 

[zeke4ahs]

In comparison to IU football, I found it enjoyable

Well a root canal….

 

[cosmickid]

A) I'm pretty sure you are never allowed to witness the execution of a search warrant. You are asked to remain outside in order to make sure that you are not able to remove / hide evidence before they get there. The same applies to video surveillance. If you are able to see where the cops / feds are searching, you can try to sneak into an area where they are not and remove evidence. Only after an area has been processed are you allowed to enter that area.

B) Both the Feds and team Trump have an inventory of all of the documents, don't they? You are essentially implying that the feds have documents in their possession that are not listed on the inventory. Even if that is true, if they try to build some kind of criminal case against Trump with that document, the lawyers for Trump can immediately point to the search warrant inventory and say "Hey, this is not an item that was removed during the search" and the case immediately gets thrown out.


Wasn't there a link in this thread a while back where a witness has said that Trump was fully aware of the contents of the boxes?

If you're normal and are mystified why Trump has insisted on getting these documents back since it made no sense, now we have a pretty good indication of why he was trying to hang on to them so desperately...



Notice the term "subpoenaed"... More obstruction, from the man who practically invented the term...

 

[DANC]

If you're normal and are mystified why Trump has insisted on getting these documents back since it made no sense, now we have a pretty good indication of why he was trying to hang on to them so desperately...

View embedded media

Notice the term "subpoenaed"... More obstruction, from the man who practically invented the term...

It must be true - it's on Twitter!

And here I thought the reason he wanted those docs were to sell our nuclear secrets to the Russians?

 

[sglowrider]

 

[Aloha Hoosier]

Hilarious!

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So many tweeting twits on Twitter and so little time. Not going to waste it on tweeting twits with overinflated opinions of their intelligence or entertainment skills.

 

[DANC]

View embedded media

Months? Try years.

I hope you're not holding your breath.

 

[outside shooter]

Trump ordered boxes moved AFTER BEING SERVED THE SUBPOENA,

according to a witness INSIDE Mar-a-Lago.

The witness testimony is corroborated by surveillance security video.

Holy shit. An insider is nailing Trump.

 

[outside shooter]

Link

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

 

[BCCHoosier]

Trump ordered boxes moved AFTER BEING SERVED THE SUBPOENA,

according to a witness INSIDE Mar-a-Lago.

The witness testimony is corroborated by surveillance security video.

Holy shit. An insider is nailing Trump.

Was just reading about this. Not good for Trump. Will be interesting to see if they search other properties.

 

[sglowrider]

Trump ordered boxes moved AFTER BEING SERVED THE SUBPOENA,

according to a witness INSIDE Mar-a-Lago.

The witness testimony is corroborated by surveillance security video.

Holy shit. An insider is nailing Trump.

Spoiler: Guess who...

 

[DANC]

Link

Loading…

www.washingtonpost.com

Washington Post. lmao!

"In the first interview, these people said, the witness denied handling sensitive documents or the boxes that might contain such documents. As they gathered evidence, agents decided to re-interview the witness, and the witness’s story changed dramatically, these people said. In the second interview, the witness described moving boxes at Trump’s request."

This is freaking hilarious. "No, we didn't see anything". FBI: Are you sure? Because we think he did, and if you're lying, you'll go to jail for a long time. "He did it! He did it!"

Freaking hilarious how gullible you all are.

 

[SqueakyClean]

Washington Post. lmao!

"In the first interview, these people said, the witness denied handling sensitive documents or the boxes that might contain such documents. As they gathered evidence, agents decided to re-interview the witness, and the witness’s story changed dramatically, these people said. In the second interview, the witness described moving boxes at Trump’s request."

This is freaking hilarious. "No, we didn't see anything". FBI: Are you sure? Because we think he did, and if you're lying, you'll go to jail for a long time. "He did it! He did it!"

Freaking hilarious how gullible you all are.

I think you're missing an important step in there. I don't think it was "Because we think he did". I'm pretty sure it was a "we know you did." If I understand correctly, it went down more like:

First Interview:
FBI: "Did you handle any of these boxes with sensitive documents"
Peon: "No, I absolutely did not."

Second Interview:
FBI: "Are you sure that you didn't handle any of these boxes?"
Peon: "No, I absolutely did not."
FBI: "Really. That's interesting. Here we have a video tape of you moving the boxes. The date on the video tape is a date after the subpoena was issued."
Peon: "....Ummmmmmm."
FBI: "So, you've now been caught lying to us, which is a crime. Here's another one, the unauthorized handling of classified documents. Do you happen to have top secret clearance?"
Peon: "....Ummmmmmm."
FBI: "Did you decide to go into that locked room and move those boxes yourself?"
(Peon does some frantic mental calculations)
Peon: ".....Ummmmmm. No?" (Looking into the eyes of the FBI guy to see if that is the right answer)

It's very possible that peon is lying to save his tooshie. The question is, can Trump come up with any kind of proof to show otherwise? Because it doesn't matter what you can claim in court, it's what you can prove.

 

[Stuffshot]

Was just reading about this. Not good for Trump. Will be interesting to see if they search other properties.

No kidding. I've been wondering why they haven't already searched the others. Trump's behavior makes all of them fair game for searches,

 

[UncleMark]

No kidding. I've been wondering why they haven't already searched the others. Trump's behavior makes all of them fair game for searches,

Probably don't have sufficient probable cause. Can't get a warrant just on speculation.

 

[DANC]

I think you're missing an important step in there. I don't think it was "Because we think he did". I'm pretty sure it was a "we know you did." If I understand correctly, it went down more like:

First Interview:
FBI: "Did you handle any of these boxes with sensitive documents"
Peon: "No, I absolutely did not."

Second Interview:
FBI: "Are you sure that you didn't handle any of these boxes?"
Peon: "No, I absolutely did not."
FBI: "Really. That's interesting. Here we have a video tape of you moving the boxes. The date on the video tape is a date after the subpoena was issued."
Peon: "....Ummmmmmm."
FBI: "So, you've now been caught lying to us, which is a crime. Here's another one, the unauthorized handling of classified documents. Do you happen to have top secret clearance?"
Peon: "....Ummmmmmm."
FBI: "Did you decide to go into that locked room and move those boxes yourself?"
(Peon does some frantic mental calculations)
Peon: ".....Ummmmmm. No?" (Looking into the eyes of the FBI guy to see if that is the right answer)

It's very possible that peon is lying to save his tooshie. The question is, can Trump come up with any kind of proof to show otherwise? Because it doesn't matter what you can claim in court, it's what you can prove.

Moving boxes isn't a crime. Those employees saw what they did to people who only entered the Capitol without violence. They know they'd be railroaded into prison and no one would object.

But, how do you know when they were telling the truth? When they said what you wanted them to say.

Any defense lawyer would show these people are willing to lie, either way.