Brad Brownell
- Thread starter HowaboutaFresca
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It's probably very attractive to mid major guys that are dreaming of taking their shot in the big leagues. But once you've built a major conference team into a high end program, you are likely already making more money than you can spend, you have players you've spent 3-6 years working on recruiting and developing, and an admin and fanbase that probably adores you and therefore, job security.
Why anyone here thinks a guy would blow that up to try to catch lightning in a bottle twice at IU is beyond me. Like, why would Mark Few leave to come here? They are already better than us. He can win a NC there with a little luck. He doesn't need IU, at all.
Brownell is like Jamie Dixon. Probably an above average college coach, but his results would have the Nancies howling somewhere around year 2 or 3, swearing we could do So. MuCh. BetToR. if we just tried.
Well you just confirmed what I said... The Miller hire was an example of the type of hire that will be available for IU going forward. It's going to be something along the lines of what Louisville just did.
The reality is that IU would have fired 6 BB coaches in 25 years (all sorts of different reasons, but the harsh reality)... The national perception of the job is not good.
Still finished 14-6 versus ACC. Did the conference only get two teams in? How would IU fans feel about going 14-6 and finishing 3rd, with no bid?
Does anyone in Clemson really care about basketball? I'm sure they're thrilled now, but weren't they just happy being in the ACC in basketball?
Hard to recruit at a place where BB is a far second to football, imo.
Most guys don't marry an ugly woman. Now others might consider her ugly but the man doesn't. Thankfully beauty is in the eye of the beholder. When my wife and I were dating I asked if her she thought I was good looking. She said, "You're cute. Very cute". Now that doesn't mean I am handsome. But I appreciated her honesty. I'll take cute. Now I married up and I am thankful every day. But there is some guy out there who would say, "you're wife is not very attractive". Well that is his view and not mine.
Yea — the IU job is great. Big resources at IU and IU fans aren’t really that demanding. Coaches won’t care that we made a lot of bad hires historically.
Your right Archie had a great resume but he has no personality you need that at Indiana. Someone has to embrace Indiana be a Hoosier so far what Curt has done for football should be what the standard of being a coach at Indiana is all about. Going to Men's and Women's games firing up the crowd thats what I can get behind and let's not for get him came from James Madison but so far he gets it.
When was the last time a coach P6 coach who reached the Elite 8 or Final Four left, let alone for a school which didn't match that level of success?
That said if IU went after Brownell, he'd bite presuming the contract and budget needs are met.
Harsh reality. I'm just basing that off of commentary I've been told from NBA people that don't have a dog in the fight nor crimson shades on. But you really think we're hiring Woodson if any legit P5 coach was available and interested? It's always going to be Dusty May types... Whoever the next one may be.
This guy thinks we are hiring Jay Wright or Billy Donovan.... Now that's a load of crap.
I'm sure the "NBA people" you talk to have their pulse on what top college BB coaches think.
Yes, I think plenty of P5 coaches would have been interested, if contacted. Woodson had a good reputation among your "NBA people".
I think fans are demanding, but shouldn't coaches want that? Fans pony up plenty of cash and love the team.
Any team with the tradition IU has that struggles like we do would be out for blood just as much as our fans are. Social media is rough anywhere - I think it's hilarious that people here think a coach is swayed by their posts on Facebook or Peegs or Rivals.
Coaches are competitive and have egos - many would relish the chance to be the savior at IU and be revered like we revere successful coaches.
Really? None? How would you rate his recruiting at Clemson? I'd give him a C+ or B-: again, good but not great. He's at a big state school with a top football-first program, so he can presumably compromise some on grades, and has done very OK, while guys like Oats, Barnes and Pearl have gone to football first schools and improved them faster and better. Clemson has certainly been the better bball program vs USC, but they haven't really ascended above them despite that and being in the ACC.
I'm not saying I'd have no interest, and I'd certainly want to talk with him if I were SD and hypothetically looking to hire a coach, but I'd have concerns and guys I'd rank a tier above him from the outside.
Not necessarily. They'd just stop showing up at a lot of schools. People who think IU fans are part of the problem are foolish. I don't believe any other program in the country would've received the support the IU program has for such mediocre results over the last 25 years, they'd just not show up and the seats would be half empty, NIL would be paltry and they'd be paying second or third tier salaries to coaches. The fans and our support are about the only thing that give me hope of our program ever returning to anything resembling an elite national level.
How many fans of a mediocre program would drive 5 hours to the traffic hellhole of Atlanta and see each other at a rest stop along the way. lol
Is it? Auburn, Bama, UT and Florida have certainly all done pretty well. Bball has certainly always been an afterthought at Clemson, but it is at all those other schools too and they've had the opportunity to step above USC for bball in the state, but really haven't, and they've done OK in the ACC, but not great. I just think if BB were the type who could elevate our program he'd have done more there in the amount of time he's been there. He's a good coach who seems sharp and appears to do it the right way. I think we could definitely do worse, but I also think maybe we could do better.
Generally agree. I am not one that thinks the fanbase is a problem whatsoever.... But rather a benefit.
But does seem to become a little less each year. Were a lot of empty balcony seats at the games I went to this year. Eventually you've got to actually start winning again, at a consistent level. You think if the next 20 years are like the last 20 that the support will still be the same?
No, I don't think it will, as you said: you've got to start winning at some point. But my impression is it really only dropped this year, as I think it was very solid in CMW's first 2 years.
I related reading a story on here about how much Iowa's attendance at men's games dropped this year and they've been pretty similar to our results over the last 3 years. I believe their attendance this year was down below 10K a game, which I think was about a 40-50% drop from last year.
Those schools have had success in some years, but do they have the sustained success of other schools - the kind like we want to be?
The old rules are out anyway - NIL has seen to that. If Brownell is a solid coach, that's an improvement from 3 the last 5 coaches we've hired (I hate to say Crean couldn't coach, but his ceiling wasn't very high). With NIL, imo, coaching makes even more of a difference at a place like IU, because we're not the destination school we once were.
I don't think anyone worried if Knight could recruit when he was hired.
I have season tickets and don't go to all the games, obviously, but the games I went to, i was pleasantly surprised how many actually were in the balcony.
He didn't leave Texas Tech after an E8 or FF season. He left two years later and went to his alma mater.
It just doesn't happen, or happen enough to the point of hinging it on IU's perceptive drop in stature, which I'd argue isn't that steep unless there is a disconnection financially I'm not aware of.
Pretty sure that pointless speculation is the whole purpose of this site ...
From comments here my sense was the balcony seating and attendance in general really dropped off once it was obvious we weren't making the tournament... maybe 2nd half of the B10 season. Did you go to any games during that time?
Yes, I did. I remember the MSU game had people in the balcony. There was probably some drop-off, but I never got the impression there was a drastic drop-off. But, like I said, I didn't go to every game.
I think Auburn, UT and Bama (and Clemson for that matter) will sustain the success they are enjoying while their current coaches are there. It's when they leave that it gets tricky: ask Florida!
The landscape is so different than it was in 1973 I don't think it's even relatable, but you know RMK always had that charisma and confidence, even at 30 so I'd imagine if you interviewed him in 1973 you'd have thought he'd probably do fine recruiting then.
Yeah, but that was a "name" opponent, and senior day and we'd just won 4 in a row? I'm thinking the preceding few home games to that were more sparse.
Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember when Knight was hired. He was far from a slam dunk hire.
I remember thinking why did we get some relative unknown for such a high profile program. A no-name (not among coaches, but among fans).
1971 (the year he was hired) was different, but recruiting was still very much a concern, especially when McGinnis left. Fortunately, Knight had some pretty good BB players on the roster when he came in. The amazing thing to me is, he got Buckner, May, and Wilkerson (and Crews) in the class BEFORE he went to the FF. Actually, Buckner was leaning toward Michigan before his (IU Alumus) father told him he was going to IU. lol Wilkerson's coach was Phil Buck, who played for IU. May was a football prospect for O$U before he saw the motion offense in action at a game In St. John's Arena on a football recruiting trip.
Odd sets of events. Kind of makes you believe in divine intervention. lol
Agree the few games before senior night were sparse in the balcony.
On this topic: Our lowest attendance was 08-09 where we averaged 14.3K, which is sort of empty balconies every game, but pretty good for a team that won one B1G game. This year was around 16.3K average.
I think I've only been to a couple of men's games since 2009 (went to every women's game this year -- it's nice to never see IU lose). But, I went to multiple men's games in 2009 because of the $5 balcony tickets that came with a popcorn and coke. I figured you can't beat that deal, even though I'd sworn to myself as a young man (70's/80's) NEVER to sit in the balcony again. I still wear a couple of the free T-shirts they gave out for a white-out game that year.
Yes but that's also why I'm not convinced Collins could come to Bloomington and run things. I've previously said the same thing about seeing how NU plays once Buie is gone. He's done well for the spot but consistency is key.
I agree that it is very attractive to mid major guys but I think with how conferences are changing, and money is being allocated, it will change the perception of how schools will be viewed. Despite our struggles, Indiana is still a premiere B1G basketball school. As conferences coalesce (and money) into a power 3/4, I think that we will be a place that coaches who have done well at historically middling teams will want to come to. Few is settled in Spokane but a McDermott, Randy Bennett, Smart, Texas Tech Chris Beard, Brownell with 4 straight NCAA tournaments, Chris Jans in two years, etc. could be willing to come here because Indiana University can provide so much more.
What I said above, basically. Regarding Miller, he was a sure-fire hire at the time. Clearly it didn't work out but he seemed like a safer hire than Dusty May or Pat Kelsey. Indiana's profile is above both Michigan and Louisville and should be able to swing a better hire than them.
Fully agree that we want a coach who embraces Indiana. I think that's a big reason of the Woodson hire to be honest. It checked three boxes fans and administration were looking for: passionate about Indiana (and basketball), connection to RMK, and would seem like they gave a shit no court. Unfortunately, only one box really seems to be checked and the product is harder to watch. Maybe it's blind optimism but after the Cignetti hire, I think the administration will be forced to put everything on the line even if it means a coach I personally would not want to hire for their off court transgressions like Beard or Pitino.
We can provide more of what? With big TV money getting spread out evenly, all the big conference teams have lots of money to offer. That doesn't make us special. Slapping a "premier" sticker on a mediocre product doesn't make it premier.
Our only differentiating factor is our fanbase. And that helps with NIL, but that doesn't guarantee much.
Yea I could roll with Collins, May, Brownell, all did at hard to win schools.
Not all conferences are made the same. Football money is the most important and there are 2 conferences which will be getting the bulk of that. On top of that, allegedly our NIL this year is one of the highest and we have boosters who are bought in. I don't see why Indiana basketball won't have the funds to compete with any other school. Bringing Indiana back to greatness is the cherry on top of a coach taking this position.
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