Biggest Ethical Choice Since......??

[Marvin the Martian]

The question is , can we believe them?

They certainly have had issues with the truth. Both the WHO and Drs Without Borders are in China. China might be able to hide a limited number of new infections. If it is still running rampant I suspect we will find out.

 

[MaxCoke]

Isn’t there a middle ground where we quarantine/isolate those at real risk and strive to get back to normalcy with everyone else?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Isn’t there a middle ground where we quarantine/isolate those at real risk and strive to get back to normalcy with everyone else?

It makes sense, but I think it would be very difficult to implement in practice. Nursing home residents want to see their families, for example. I'm not sure it's worth living any longer if you are a grandmother and unable to see your children, grandkids and great grandkids.

 

[twenty02]

I've been listening to some people I know in the medical field talk about this report, and here is the main takeaway: If we are lucky, we will have a vaccine tested, produced, and distributed in 18 months. If we keep the country shut down, we can probably go back to normal after about two months, but then we'll need to shut down again a month later, continuing this cycle of two months off, one month on, for a year and a half. Basically, we have to take 6 months worth of social and economic activity, and spread it out over 18 months.

I'm still hopeful that we can mitigate that economic hit by finding new ways to do things. I mentioned elsewhere about a potential boom in carryout business that might help keep restaurants afloat, for example. But no matter how you slice it, what the experts are telling us to prepare for is...sobering to say the least.

What's the number that the govt would have to pump over losing basically 12 months of activity. It will be astronomical .....$5T+

 

[Standard Issue]

As much as I am with the crap out of Fox. Whats the difference?

The latest from American Pravda:

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Glasshouse?!

I wonder if anyone here has a tangential relationship with anyone at Fox News. I've always wondered if they believe the crap they spew or are they like actors playing a part?

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

I think the idea that this was avoidable is completely torn to pieces by reports like this. This virus is going to spread. Going into lockdown early, as we are doing here, will delay the spread. But delay is all we can do until there is a vaccine.

It appears that there is nothing we could have done to nip this in the bud early and prevent the pain altogether.

Agreed. Herd immunity or vaccine seems to be most likely scenario.

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Testing isnt containment. Its a requirement for containment. Its like a weighing machine. It tells me I maybe over-weight. Now what? What next?

The key after that is to track, map and the isolate. You are looking it from a pinhole perspective of what your state is doing. Its not a best-case study to start with then.

Look at this:
https://infographics.channelnewsasi...??cid=h3_referral_inarticlelinks_24082018_cna

This is a map of every positive tested individual in the country. From here, the track their primary contacts and then the secondary then quarantine and/or home isolate them.
This is how you try and manage the spread.

Is this what they do where you live? Like I said earlier -- my life has not changed one iaota -- no schools shut, restaurants curfews etc.

You live in a bubble man, you live in a tiny country at the end of an isthmus. We live in a great expanse with access to everywhere. Sealing Singapore and Taiwan and Hong Kong is a helluva lot easier than sealing the US or Canada. You’re starting to (no you already do) sound like the winner of the 4th grade basketball game telling the varsity 12th grade how easy it is.

 

[sglowrider]

You live in a bubble man, you live in a tiny country at the end of an isthmus. We live in a great expanse with access to everywhere. Sealing Singapore and Taiwan and Hong Kong is a helluva lot easier than sealing the US or Canada. You’re starting to (no you already do) sound like the winner of the 4th grade basketball game telling the varsity 12th grade how easy it is.

As I said before, every country has its advantages and disadvantages. Issue of finding out and execution.
Even in business, large corporations and startups have distinct differences. Advantages and disadvantages.

Issue of leveraging on their strength and mitigate their weaknesses. But both have the same goals which is to make a profit.

A country consist of people and organisations.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

I'm glad that you are so confident in the numbers released by the Chinese Govt.

Maybe he thinks the government can make rain or sun like some of the Chinese citizens

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Bottom line is that you have an easily avoidable situation. There are case studies on how to manage it but were either never learnt or not taken seriously. I was the very first person to even post about Coronavirus - months ago. So if a pleb like me knows about it, surely those in power should have started preparing the correct pandemic management playbook back in Dec. Instead, it was played to an audience -- like banning fo flights and that was it which is a dog & pony show. Other measures should have started falling into place right after. Three months notice wasnt enough?

Trump should be culpable.

What case studies and what other measures?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

What's the number that the govt would have to pump over losing basically 12 months of activity. It will be astronomical .....$5T+

Part of the equation also revolves around treatment, not just vaccination. I've heard that treatments are closer to ~6 months out, though that could be optimistic (at least one in Phase III, not sure on the others). That could dramatically improve things in the interim for people before a vaccination becomes available.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Part of the equation also revolves around treatment, not just vaccination. I've heard that treatments are closer to ~6 months out, though that could be optimistic (at least one in Phase III, not sure on the others). That could dramatically improve things in the interim for people before a vaccination becomes available.

Here is an informative Wiki page about antivirals. I read that some of the drugs the are looking at for COVID-19 are the ones that stop the virus from replicating inside a human being. Many academic and private research labs are full speed ahead on this.

 

[Circlejoe]

Can we pick and choose who dies? That might be the attractive option.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

I think the idea that this was avoidable is completely torn to pieces by reports like this. This virus is going to spread. Going into lockdown early, as we are doing here, will delay the spread. But delay is all we can do until there is a vaccine.

It appears that there is nothing we could have done to nip this in the bud early and prevent the pain altogether.

I think once the virus boarded airplanes, the pandemic was unavoidable. But there was an opportunity to nip it in the bud in Wuhan except for early blunders, ignorance, and secrecy of the Chinese health system and it political overseers.

 

[Cortez88]

I’ll confess to being jaded and cynical, but we have a country where people refused to even cancel their spring break trips. How can we expect those people to make any sacrifice at all for the common good?

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

Here is an informative Wiki page about antivirals. I read that some of the drugs the are looking at for COVID-19 are the ones that stop the virus from replicating inside a human being. Many academic and private research labs are full speed ahead on this.

Here's an article on one of them

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/resea...-trial-for-covid-19-antibody-cocktail-therapy

 

[Ohio Guy]

I’ll confess to being jaded and cynical, but we have a country where people refused to even cancel their spring break trips. How can we expect those people to make any sacrifice at all for the common good?

I'm not sure this is the answer, but a woman I was in grad school with was regularly posting pictures on facebook of her and her husband in the Dominican Republic.

Her general tone was essentially 'we're had this planned, we're doing this'. Best I can tell, she stopped posting early Monday because she was essentially being shamed in the comments on her pictures. My guess is that they'll be back soon and that they'll hunker down like the rest of us.

I'm not sure I want public shaming to become a wide societal norm, but if it helps.

 

[Univee2]

Can we pick and choose who dies? That might be the attractive option.

"They" might choose you.

 

[CradleofBasketball]

But there was an opportunity to nip it in the bud in Wuhan except for early blunders, ignorance, and secrecy of the Chinese health system and it political overseers.

China wasn't forthcoming with WHO from the beginning:

 

[anon_mlxxvlbug9dpa]

Here's an article on one of them

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/resea...-trial-for-covid-19-antibody-cocktail-therapy

If cocktails will cure this consider me safe

 

[Cortez88]

I'm not sure this is the answer, but a woman I was in grad school with was regularly posting pictures on facebook of her and her husband in the Dominican Republic.

Her general tone was essentially 'we're had this planned, we're doing this'. Best I can tell, she stopped posting early Monday because she was essentially being shamed in the comments on her pictures. My guess is that they'll be back soon and that they'll hunker down like the rest of us.

I'm not sure I want public shaming to become a wide societal norm, but if it helps.

A good bit of shaming and judging can be useful.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Here's an article on one of them

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/resea...-trial-for-covid-19-antibody-cocktail-therapy

Ive read before about using blood from recovered patients to develop a treatment. That has a host of moral, legal, and ethical questions.

Do the recovered patients sell their blood? Seems like that could be a very high price.

Does the government simply order a patient to give blood?

Can the government “take” blood under a process similar to eminent domain?

Can the government make it a crime not to give blood?

Lots of juicy stuff for ethicists, lawyers, and physicians to chew on here.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

Can we pick and choose who dies? That might be the attractive option.

I’ve got my list ready to go. Been working on it for years.

 

[twenty02]

Ive read before about using blood from recovered patients to develop a treatment. That has a host of moral, legal, and ethical questions.

Do the recovered patients sell their blood? Seems like that could be a very high price.

Does the government simply order a patient to give blood?

Can the government “take” blood under a process similar to eminent domain?

Can the government make it a crime not to give blood?

Lots of juicy stuff for ethicists, lawyers, and physicians to chew on here.

How relevant though? The % of people that would refuse to donate in that situation I believe would be very small.

 

[CO. Hoosier]

How relevant though? The % of people that would refuse to donate in that situation I believe would be very small.

Could be and we all hope that it won’t be a problem. But I don’t think it will take long for people to figure out there is a lot of money to be had by somebody.

 

[JamieDimonsBalls]

SIAP

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/im...-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

 

[meridian]

Can we pick and choose who dies? That might be the attractive option.

That depends on who "we" is.

 

[sglowrider]

A good bit of shaming and judging can be useful.

Silent judging ain't enuf for these fools.


Or is he part of some secret herd immunity/sharing programme?